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Microsoft Engineers Helping Get Baldur's Gate 3 Split-Screen Working on Xbox Series S
- Thread starter Musilla
- Start date
CuteFaceJay
Member
Oh is this why Halo Infinite didn't get co-op split screen during release because they were busy helping these guys out?
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
It takes this much to get done wth?
ReBurn
Gold Member
They obviously felt that taking the opportunity to shine as a console warrior was more important than replying in good faith.
Things are only going to get worse for Xbox Series as time goes on. Microsoft needs to re-evaluate parity requirements.
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Interfectum
Member
Buggy Loop
Member
foamdino
Member
The downplaying of the co-op feature is becoming tiresome. This game is the most accurate/faithful recreation of the table-top experience that has ever been created. Co-op gameplay is absolutely part of the package and was featured throughout the early access period during the Panels from Hell shows - including the last one before launch (the famous bear scene) and included two players playing with controllers.
"But no-one ever plays co-op so who cares..." - ok so the game devs who are passionate about their project, they care and they want that feature in their game.
lostinblue
Banned
Just a nitpick, and perhaps baseless at that, but it seems like they'd be ok skipping it on Xbox Series S.
Just not on Xbox Series X where it runs properly. Does Microsoft require feature parity with PS5 as well? meaning they'd have to can it on XSX and PS5 as well?
foamdino
Member
I think Microsoft does require that games that launch on PS5 have to have same features on Series S|X - it used to be that way last gen, I doubt they would have changed that. A quick search reveals this doc: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1821175/000149315220023938/ex10-21.htm
There is a parity clause
9. Software Title parity. Each Software Title is subject to the following requirements:
9.1 Features and content parity.
9.1.1. [***]
9.1.2. [***]
9.2. Simship with Competitive Platforms.
9.2.1. [***]
9.2.2. [***]
However the content of the clause is elided - probably because it contains commercially sensitive details and this was posted to SEC as a public doc.
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DeltaPolarBear
Member
There will also be a real danger that developers would start to ignore Series S during game development, if they assume they can ask for cuts in features after the fact. This would then CAUSE more actual examples of games that would not have feature parity with Series X. They have to discourage this by standing their ground in this case or Series S is doomed.
If they let an exception stand, that would become the norm. The stubbornness is meant to force FUTURE developers to play ball and restrict their games in order to release on Xbox, and not to ask for exceptions.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
If Xbox remove the parity clause that require Xbox Series games to run on S, then you would see games that only run on Series X. You are being silly, of course all the games that are approved for launch all run on Series S; Xbox made it a mandate.
You are asking me to prove the existence of approved games that are ALSO banned from being released. That is an oxymoron. Of course games that can't be released wouldn't be on the list of games that are coming out. But maybe very soon the list of to be release games are going to shrink as developers stop developing for 8GB of ram. If you can't look ahead in time you would never have a future.
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yamaci17
Member
to be fair developing games for 8 gb ram and series s is the best way to ensure maximum sales for a multiplatform game
- you get the series s userbase
- you ensure your game will be compliant with 16 gb ram and 6-8 gb vram on PC
- you get xbox x and ps5 as usual
Riky
$MSFT
Isn't it disabled on Steamdeck?
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Correct
Baldur's Gate 3 Will Have Splitscreen Disabled on Steam Deck with FSR 2 is Coming in September - Steam Deck HQ
Baldur's Gate 3's release is fast approaching and a new community update from developer Larian Studios brings up Steam Deck support, as well as FSR 2.
steamdeckhq.com
DeltaPolarBear
Member
By that argument, why not develop for PS4 while you are at it? There is far more PS4 out there than there are Series X and S. And PS4 is 8GB of ram too.
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Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
Sorry, made a mistake in my post, I meant to say "PlayStation 5" games that aren't coming for Series S. Sorry, was obviously not paying full attention.
I think we're basically in agreement, that if Series S were holding games back, the list of games would be smaller. However, look at the planned list of releases, is anything without paid exclusivity /first party not coming to Series S/Xbox? How far in the future must we go before all these games stop appearing on Series S?
Given the way that Series S is holding development back, why aren't we seeing a generational leap between PS5 and Series games?
Yes, we've seen a couple of games now that have had problems with split screen - no denial there. But the rest seems to be unfounded concern trolling/outright console wars.
yamaci17
Member
That is exactly why PS4 survivoed this further into the gen. Even Jedi Survivor is being ported to PS4. Re4 is ported to PS4 also. I'm quite sure if Sony did not want to drive people from PS4, they could've released the Spider2 for PS4 also. But ofc at some point they had to stop that.
PS4's problem is super slow HDD + CPU. That is a problem you somehow don't have on PCs at least. Everyone has some kind of decent Zen 2 and upwards of a CPU. I don't have any friend who does not have their Windows installed on a minimum of 500 GB SATA SSD. Current games started to use more and more of the quick file grabbing capabilities of SSD to stream more stuff instead of using more memory.
But CPU is most likely the most limiting factor. Gotham Knights' CPU bound performance was optimized to hit a laughable 35-40 FPS on Zen 2 CPUs. Naturally it would hit 10-15 FPS on PS4 CPU. Devs that leave PS4 behind are the ones who use the new Zen 2 CPUs to optimize the CPU bound code in a more relaxed way.
Devs want to code their games to hit 30 FPS on a freaking Zen 2 CPU now. That's an altogether different thing from memory budgets, sadly. If they did optimize to hit 30 FPS on Jaguar CPUs, that would actually translate well over newgen consoles and we would keep having our 60-100 FPS modes. But they don't want to do that apparently. Only reason GKnights is not on PS4/xbox one is because of CPU. The game actually has tame RAM requirements on PC. Only big problematic thing it has is CPU bound perf.
Same with a plague tale requiem. it actually has a super small memory footprint.
and 1050ti hits 30 fps average at 1080p/low with %65 res scale. considering 1050ti runs the games around the performance of a PS4 in most recent games, suffice it to say PS4's GPU would be capable of running this game at 1080p%70scaling 30 fps just fine. But guess what? Game was initially optimized to barely hit 35-40 FPS on Zen 2 CPUs (they nerfed everything from draw distance to model detail to attain the new 60 FPS modes. Don't be surprised if this also ends up being announced for PS4 lmao)
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foamdino
Member
It is - how can you fit two UI's and have two sets of controls on the steam deck? It's a hw limitation and Valve don't demand parity with other platforms, so Larian decided to disable it on Steamdeck - that doesn't mean that the developers don't want to support co-op - they obviously care about it and found a way to make it work well on PCs and PS5. The steamdeck can actually run co-op with a tweak - it has enough ram.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
The feature works on PS5 and XSX though.
Riky
$MSFT
You can connect Steamdeck to a monitor can't you?
Mokus
Member
People don't buy Steamdeck for parity. They don't even expect every game that is on Steam to be on Steamdeck, only hope for it.
Riky
$MSFT
I thought it was Steamdeck verified?
nowhat
Member
Does that imply feature parity to every other version? Or just that it has been verified to run at least decently?
(hint: it's the latter)
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Topher
Gold Member
Yes, but all game functionality must be playable in handheld mode to be Steam Deck Verified.
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Freelance Yakuza
Member
Since some of you are too stubborn I asked Chatgpt why games need RAM:
In video games, RAM (Random Access Memory) is an essential component that plays a crucial role in the overall performance and smooth running of the game. RAM serves as a temporary storage space for data that the game requires to function properly during gameplay. When you launch a game, it loads various assets, textures, game world data, character models, sound files, and other necessary information into the RAM for quick access.
During gameplay, the CPU (Central Processing Unit) and GPU (Graphics Processing Unit) constantly need to access data from RAM to render graphics, process AI behavior, handle physics calculations, and manage various game mechanics. Having sufficient RAM allows the game to keep more data readily available, reducing loading times and preventing hiccups or stutters during intense gameplay moments.
If a game doesn't have enough RAM available, it can lead to several issues. The game may experience frequent loading screens, longer loading times between levels or areas, lower-quality textures, reduced graphical fidelity, and even crashes or freezes when the system runs out of memory.
To ensure optimal performance and prevent technical problems, game developers typically set minimum system requirements, including a specified amount of RAM. By doing so, they ensure that players with the required amount of RAM will have a smooth and enjoyable gaming experience without encountering significant performance issues.
As games continue to advance in complexity and demand more resources, having an adequate amount of RAM becomes increasingly important to ensure that the game can run smoothly and deliver the intended gaming experience.
Here are some of the main reasons why games use RAM:
Temporary storage of resources: When the game is launched, many resources such as textures, 3D models, animations, sound effects, and music need to be loaded into RAM. Having these resources in RAM allows the game to access them instantly when needed, improving loading times and the overall player experience.
Real-time data processing: Games often need to perform complex calculations and simulations in real-time to create gameplay, environmental physics, and character behaviors. RAM provides a fast workspace for these operations, allowing the game to process information quickly and generate real-time responses.
Storage of game state: RAM is also used to store the current state of the game while it is being played. This includes information about the player's position, enemy statuses, objects in the environment, collected items, and more. Having this information in RAM allows the game to respond quickly to player actions and maintain gameplay continuity.
Quick access to open-world data: In open-world games, where players can explore large environments without transitioning between scenes, RAM is essential to keep these environments loaded and ready for constant interaction. This allows players to move smoothly through the game world without visible delays or loading screens.
Overall performance acceleration: The more RAM a system has, the more data the game can store and access quickly. This can result in better overall performance, fewer crashes, less lag, and faster loading times.
In summary, RAM is crucial to the gaming experience, enabling games to load resources, process complex data, maintain the game state, and provide smoother and more responsive gameplay. As a result, the amount and speed of the system's RAM directly impact the performance and visual quality of games on a video game console.
www.ign.com
I believe people got too fixated on the parity between Series S and Series X and didn't realize that it's very common to have parity among different platforms, such as PC, PlayStation, and Xbox.
This article from IGN explores these possibilities, mentioning various scenarios. In the article itself, they state that it's common for contracts to have clauses that allow for the absence of parity when there's a limitation in the hardware, which would explain the Steam Deck.
In video games, RAM (Random Access Memory) is an essential component that plays a crucial role in the overall performance and smooth running of the game. RAM serves as a temporary storage space for data that the game requires to function properly during gameplay. When you launch a game, it loads various assets, textures, game world data, character models, sound files, and other necessary information into the RAM for quick access.
During gameplay, the CPU (Central Processing Unit) and GPU (Graphics Processing Unit) constantly need to access data from RAM to render graphics, process AI behavior, handle physics calculations, and manage various game mechanics. Having sufficient RAM allows the game to keep more data readily available, reducing loading times and preventing hiccups or stutters during intense gameplay moments.
If a game doesn't have enough RAM available, it can lead to several issues. The game may experience frequent loading screens, longer loading times between levels or areas, lower-quality textures, reduced graphical fidelity, and even crashes or freezes when the system runs out of memory.
To ensure optimal performance and prevent technical problems, game developers typically set minimum system requirements, including a specified amount of RAM. By doing so, they ensure that players with the required amount of RAM will have a smooth and enjoyable gaming experience without encountering significant performance issues.
As games continue to advance in complexity and demand more resources, having an adequate amount of RAM becomes increasingly important to ensure that the game can run smoothly and deliver the intended gaming experience.
Here are some of the main reasons why games use RAM:
Temporary storage of resources: When the game is launched, many resources such as textures, 3D models, animations, sound effects, and music need to be loaded into RAM. Having these resources in RAM allows the game to access them instantly when needed, improving loading times and the overall player experience.
Real-time data processing: Games often need to perform complex calculations and simulations in real-time to create gameplay, environmental physics, and character behaviors. RAM provides a fast workspace for these operations, allowing the game to process information quickly and generate real-time responses.
Storage of game state: RAM is also used to store the current state of the game while it is being played. This includes information about the player's position, enemy statuses, objects in the environment, collected items, and more. Having this information in RAM allows the game to respond quickly to player actions and maintain gameplay continuity.
Quick access to open-world data: In open-world games, where players can explore large environments without transitioning between scenes, RAM is essential to keep these environments loaded and ready for constant interaction. This allows players to move smoothly through the game world without visible delays or loading screens.
Overall performance acceleration: The more RAM a system has, the more data the game can store and access quickly. This can result in better overall performance, fewer crashes, less lag, and faster loading times.
In summary, RAM is crucial to the gaming experience, enabling games to load resources, process complex data, maintain the game state, and provide smoother and more responsive gameplay. As a result, the amount and speed of the system's RAM directly impact the performance and visual quality of games on a video game console.
What Parity Clauses Really Mean For Games Like Resident Evil Village - IGN
While they are a standard part of the day-to-day for many, parity clauses are one way how platform holders try to ensure everyone playing a game has a good time regardless of platform.
I believe people got too fixated on the parity between Series S and Series X and didn't realize that it's very common to have parity among different platforms, such as PC, PlayStation, and Xbox.
This article from IGN explores these possibilities, mentioning various scenarios. In the article itself, they state that it's common for contracts to have clauses that allow for the absence of parity when there's a limitation in the hardware, which would explain the Steam Deck.
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Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
I see your point but in some respects, Starfield is (once again) potentially a saviour.
If it's a big hit, I suspect merely being able to play an incredibly highly anticipated, highly reviewed game on the cheapest console on the market will be a bit of a coup for Microsoft. At the kind of price that the Series S is at, people crying into their dual shocks about Microsoft's acquisitions might as well just get over it and buy one. In that situation, I think that you could expect the only people to be concerned about Baldur's gate not being on Series S to be mostly made up of fanboys who don't play on Xbox anyway, just like here. For everyone else, the narrative should be "WOW look at this (next gen only) game! It is amazing" not "Yeah, but what about that split screen game?" and
"Just wait until cross gen is over"
It is over, I'm playing Starfield.
"No, not that crossgen, the other crossgen that I'm worried about"
What do you mean?
"The end of the crossgen that means Series S is making Spiderman not as good as it's supposed to be"
How does that work?
"Sorry, not Spiderman, I mean Assassin's Creed"
What would Assassin's Creed be like if it wasn't on Series S?
"Dunno, some sort of raytracing or something"
I digress. If Starfield's not a big hit, doesn't work very well and everyone realises it was just Fallout 76* in space, then the juggernaut of bad news rolls on apace with rampant speculation of when the Series S will not be able to play 1% (Or more!) of games released.
(*for the sake of something really alarming)
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twilo99
Member
Are you saying that this game is a PS5 exclusive? Please think about it.
BossLackey
Gold Member
I watched 2 hours gameplay, I've changed my mind, it's awesome, looks great on big screen.
What a shit take
Blizzard?? Blizzard??!!
BioWare’s infinity engine defined the fucking cRPG genre as we see for over 2 decades you doofus
Baldur’s Gate
Planescape: Torment
Icewind Dale
Baldur’s Gate 2
Icewind Dale 2
You grew up playing PC games wrong.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Hemingwayoffbase
Gold Member
Hypothetically, even if they get it “working,” isn’t it all but guaranteed to be the crappiest version of the game? How much quality are they going to have to sacrifice just to technically make it split screen?
Like if they get it to run at 420p 20fps, but it’s split screen…does that count as a win?
Like if they get it to run at 420p 20fps, but it’s split screen…does that count as a win?
Negotiator101
Member
Realistically how many people are gonna play split screen? I'd imagine it's an incredibly low amount so just get it working and get this game out the door.
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Hudo
Member
Huh. I never got the last quote and I still play this game.
Beer Baelly
Al Pachinko, Konami President
Guess you are gone in 60 seconds
Hudo
Member
That's why the ladies call me the Minute Man™
Fabieter
Member
We are arguing semantics here. But it seems you are sayinf hat all pc exclusive rts/mmo games are also not exclusive to pc for some reason. Really really weird but if you think so.
twilo99
Member
People who think that the game is a PS5 exclusive are confused, that’s all I’m saying.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
I think there are some decent points for those that are saying they could just roll it back to some low resolution like 540p. The issue is that the developers take a lot of pride in their work and want to deliver the best possible experience for a title the folks put a lot of work into.
You make some massive concessions and it makes you either question to work on the project for that particular platform or to simply scrap that skew which means potentially due to some rule cannot release the platform which is why this Xbox series s console isn't a blessing like I read in a thread on Reddit.
If Nvidia is overpriced graphics cards are getting scrutiny due to lack of memory and their pricing then this inferior overpriced console is worth the scrutiny. But if you're running PlayStation one and older titles God bless america. This console is designed to run current generation titles running on last generation hardware.
That is a problem that no loyalist or Microsoft PR can magically wish away.
It has me come very clear that developers want memory amongst other things. But memory is something that is crucial for these intensive applications with all these modern effects. For the sake of the industry, we cannot have another console doing this in the future generations.
You make some massive concessions and it makes you either question to work on the project for that particular platform or to simply scrap that skew which means potentially due to some rule cannot release the platform which is why this Xbox series s console isn't a blessing like I read in a thread on Reddit.
If Nvidia is overpriced graphics cards are getting scrutiny due to lack of memory and their pricing then this inferior overpriced console is worth the scrutiny. But if you're running PlayStation one and older titles God bless america. This console is designed to run current generation titles running on last generation hardware.
That is a problem that no loyalist or Microsoft PR can magically wish away.
It has me come very clear that developers want memory amongst other things. But memory is something that is crucial for these intensive applications with all these modern effects. For the sake of the industry, we cannot have another console doing this in the future generations.
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Fabieter
Member
Well ofc it isnt. Its console launch exclusive (remember that) and it doesn't matter what's the reason for that.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
When Playstation 1 first came out, it ended up with a lot of free exclusives because Nintendo's offering just can't run polygons well enough, That was what hardware war was about; that having worse hardware means not just having worse games, but less games too.
The idea that third party games would run on every system was never guaranteed. If you put up enough barriers the developers would just give up and go elsewhere. And this is exacerbated if a platform decided that selling consoles doesn't matter anymore.
The Inventor
Member
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
If it is so inconsequential, shouldn't Microsoft have allowed Larian to release BG3 on Xbox on day one without the split screen feature since the feature is "unused in general" and "most console gamers wouldn't care about" it anyway?
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My bad, I judged the game from the first 15 minutes gameplay video, it turned out different than what I thought.
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