Theoretically, you should get better power efficiency doing the exact same floorplan N7->N6 as you'd end up with somewhat smaller transistors, thus more dark silicon. Of course, only someone with PDK access would know what the exact parameters are.
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New PS5 model lighter, uses less W, and possibly more efficient in cooling
- Thread starter jeffyjaixx
- Start date
Theoretically, you should get better power efficiency doing the exact same floorplan N7->N6 as you'd end up with somewhat smaller transistors, thus more dark silicon. Of course, only someone with PDK access would know what the exact parameters are.
01011001
Banned
that's the same pattern as the PS4 as well. the PS4 1200 model also was a mid step between FAT and Slim
twilo99
Member
This one is pretty slim on the inside...
prinz_valium
Member
Rykan
Member
Nice try with the "Gotcha" attempt. I've owned both a PS5 and a Series X, both which I've sold before I relocated to a different country at the end of 2021, as I couldn't bring them with me. Something which I have mentioned on GAF several times, including this thread back in December of last year and this thread in June.
PM me your PSN ID and I will add you. You'll see that I own Demon's Souls as well as the PS5 versions of CoD:CW, FiFa21 and FF7: Integrade.
It being a "minority" of units is something you've made up yourself. The issue is well documented on several forums and there's plenty of examples of it on YouTube. Quit being loyal to a plastic box. The plastic box doesn't care about you and it doesn't need your white knighting.
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MarkMe2525
Member
Good move for profit margin, make it cheaper to produce and charge more for it. It's a business and moves like this allow the company to reinvest in the platform.
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omegasc
Member
The GDDR6 memory modules in the PS5 can generate a lot of heat, maybe even more than the CPU and GPU. So using less modules with bigger capacity can have a big effect in temperatures.
Might be both, of course. I am not discarding a die shrink.
prinz_valium
Member
They don't generate more heat. They just getting hotter, because they're let run hotter and are not as well cooled.
It's still just slow GDDR6.
I get what you meant tho.
But less modules is not possible. PS5 has a 256bit interface. One interface is 32bit. That equals 8 chips. You can't reduce that to 4. You could only reduce from 16 to 8, like the PS4 did.
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Loxus
Member
Base on that, we can expect a PS5 Slim in the first half of 2024.
Likely. So far the PS5 is having the same exact new revision the last gen had.
Oh shut up with this fake outrage. Beta testing because a more power efficient version releases 2 years later? There is no wrong with launch models.
Aren't you in the US anyway? You don't even get a price increase at all while simultaneously complaining about early adaptors being beta testers.
John Wick
Member
Could be 6nm?
It probably is but the heatsink cools all the components on the MB including the memory. The memory configuration seems to be less spread out than the original and probably producing less heat too.
GHG
Gold Member
It is the minority of units, there have been multiple polls here:
There are even more polls if you care to search.
But as always "it happens to me so it must be everyone" and "I'm a true gamer™" with a sprinkling of unsolicited xbox advertisement thrown in for good measure must apply. Heard and seen it all before, it is the playbook afterall.
And I'll pass on the PSN invite, no thanks.
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Yeah the rumour was that it went from 7nm to a 6nm redesign. The rumour of the redesign comes from 2021 for launch in 22 so I guess we are seeing those now.
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John Wick
Member
One ugly cringe looking dudeWaiting for this guy to make a review:
Oh, snap!! There's already a link to it in the Verge article
Caio
Member
That's why most of us are expecting the Slim model, and the PRO later on.
Likely. So far the PS5 is having the same exact new revision the last gen had.
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
I'm surprised by the reduction in the size of the cooler...
If it's really 6nm the power reduction doesn't seem to reflect IMHO of course. Maybe the other chips are on a more efficient process?
If it's really 6nm the power reduction doesn't seem to reflect IMHO of course. Maybe the other chips are on a more efficient process?
prinz_valium
Member
Pro I don't think so, but a slim model will happen at some point.
It has to happen. Unless Sony believes they'll just ship another 30m consoles after the fat one
Rykan
Member
There sure are other polls. Like this one which has 75% of participants reporting that their unit has coil whine. Literally every single forum related to video games has at least one or more huge threads on the issue. Several high profile gaming tech YouTubers have addressed this. You can find plenty of examples all over youtube.
Implying that it is but a fraction of users is flat out ridiculous. It is a genuine widespread issue. The only reason the Series X is brought up is because it took actual steps to prevent it and I, and I'm sure many others, would like Sony to do the same.
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GHG
Gold Member
I wouldn't mind it so much if I hadn't seen this shit so much here over the last couple of years. It's just boring. Nobody came into this thread to talk about your poxy xbox.
The next stage is "everyone else is lying and can't be trusted but trust me and my not so subtle shilling".
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
In my personal opinion, we know the Xbox has been outselling the ps5 for the most of this year in the US. So I think it's purely down to Sony not daring to put the price up there but are willing to do it every where else. Of course, this could absolutely be tales from my ass! just a hunch.
The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
As I've said, it's a welcome feature it uses less power, especially now where power gets way more expensive thanks to the ongoing war in the world.
I just find it interesting they've already made a revamp with this improvement. It just seems like the launch model was designed to quick, along with the coil fan whine.
I live in Europe, I'm not American.
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Considering the motherboard is a lot smaller I would suspect a lot of the components are more efficient now and not just the SoC.
Whether that is fewer but same spec memory and/or smaller 6nm node components everywhere.
Physiognomonics
Member
I think we don't really know that for sure. Maybe there is some slight improvements and TSMC didn't bother to indicate.
It's an interesting improvement but launch models weren't designed too quickly, fabrication just moved to 6nm in the last 2 years and things just generally become more efficient for the same spec as time goes on.
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Salty Popsicle
Banned
But is it quieter and more thermal efficient than Xbox Series X? That's what we want to know.
TheGodfather07
Member
theres gonna be a new slimmer model for sure. sony have done it with every console they ever made. they even did it twice with the PS3, with that horrendous looking super slim model.
Caio
Member
PRO model, who knows, also depends from the life cycle; if you ask me, I would love it, but it's just me.
Tripolygon
Banned
That is impossible. There is always something better you could be doing given more time and more knowledge and more money. That is literally what technological advancements are. Nothing is perfect, it does not mean the original was not built well. The newer motherboard is smaller, does that mean the original motherboard wasn't built well? The new heat sink is even smaller, does that mean the original and previous revision wasn't built well? A manufacturing process node gets more refined and better over time, does that mean the original SoC made by TSMC wasn't built well? No, it just means technology improves with time and Sony does over 10 revisions of their consoles over the generations to reduce cost.
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ToTTenTranz
Banned
Not according to TSMC's own public documentation. N6 is a half node / optical shrink that uses a couple of EUV layers and gets just 18% higher density, and TSMC themselves declare N6 as part of the N7 family.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Yes there is, but a significant power reduction has always been because smaller or more power efficient node.
More money can make better designs, but that's not the case in consoles.
I am talking about design. If a company gets it right the first time, they don't need to make changes... It's not hard to understand...
If ps5-1200 is still using N7P, then yes, Sony could of done a better job with the original design...
Andodalf
Banned
I had pretty annoying coil whine. It sucks in quiet games
JackMcGunns
Member
I just saw the video, it's good content; informational, that's why I watch Youtube videos. Not only do you learn that there are 3 difference models, what numbers to look for, what they look like inside, weight, temperatures, decibel levels. Are people hating because of something he said in the past? aka prejudice?
Tripolygon
Banned
It's not hard to understand it just does not make sense and fails in the face of reality. You are intending to say the previous design is poor because they are constantly making improvements and optimizations but that's not how it works.
The previous heat sink used a lot of copper but reducing the copper did not affect cooling the SoC so they reduced the amount of copper. That is a cost optimization, it does not mean the first copper heat sink was bad.
The original motherboard had a lot of dead space, and the newer motherboard is smaller and more compact, that does not mean the original motherboard was not designed well. It's a cost optimization.
That's how constant optimization works. You don't stop optimizing just because something is released. TSMC always optimizes their process nodes over time, heck it could just be a better binned SoC (not likely).
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Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
And how did they come to these conclusions? More testing? Well the og model would of been better if they have done more testing then....
No matter what you say the fact that Sony are making these changes shows that there original design was not the optimum design, well at least untill 1100 model, unless the 1200 is also N7P too.
There only so much you can do with same components, a good original design wants to get the best cooling solution out the gate, that's why they go through extensive testing and iterations. The better the product the less optimisations that can be done.
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Yeah but look on the bright side, it uses less electricity than the original cheaper PS5, it saves you money in the long run.
Tripolygon
Banned
That's dumb. They should not have released the original in 2020 and delayed until they have enough data to have all these cost reductions already in 2022. Or they should have time traveled to 2022 and included every optimization in the OG release.
Nothing is the most optimized it can possibly be. There is always something you can do better given time and more knowledge. Guess what? there will be 1300, 1400, 1500 revisions before the console generation is over. Let me guess they should have had those revisions already in 1100.
JackMcGunns
Member
100%
I think he might be confusing fixing a problem vs optimizing. If the original was overheating or breaking and the issue was fixed in the 1100, then his comments would make sense.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Obviously they made the right call not delay the system, but that just shows what I'm saying.. you say here the Ps5 design would of benefitted from more time in the oven. The PS4 did see these kind of revisions in the original model because they obviously got the heatsink right for the SoC they were using.
Yes nothing is perfect, but many times there has been varrying quality of initial releases. There will be a point you reach where you can't reduce the heatsink size much or reduce the power consumption without introducing different components.
Anyway we need some pictures of the 1200 SoC and if it is N6 this discussion will be obsolete.
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Zathalus
Member
I feel your pain, I'm moving to the Netherlands end of this month but I paid for extra luggage just so I can take my PS5 and XSX with.
As for coil whine, I've seen about fifteen separate PS5s running and only one had audible coil whine, so rare but it does happen.
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cinnamonandgravy
Member
hot damn that 1000-series heatsink is sexy.
would be cool if you could you mount it on a 1200-series mobo.
Salty Popsicle
Banned
Eh, even if it was "only" 1-in-15 PlayStation 5 consoles that have audible coil whine, that would be (~22 million sold / 15) = 1.5 million PS5 owners with the problem, which is not insignificant. Even worse considering Sony knew it was an issue when they developed the PS4 Pro and it seems they did nothing to mitigate or fix the problem with their next console.
Rykan
Member
Slightly off topic, but I'm actually from the Netherlands originally. If you have any questions about relocating there, don't be shy to drop me a message. Also if, for whatever reason, you can only bring one console, then bring your PS5. Xsx is pretty easy to find in the Netherlands. Shouldn't take you too long.
Topher
Gold Member
He is only stating his own observation which is anecdotal. We have no data to make conclusions as to how "significant" coil whine is for PS5 owners. A few mentions on gaming forums doesn't tell us anything.
Tripolygon
Banned
It does not show what you are saying. I'm saying you do not stop optimizing just because you have released a product, you continue optimizing as you gain more knowledge. All Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft consoles have had such revisions. Sony does a lot of revisions than most.
What you are suggesting is you only release a product that is perfect and does not need any more optimization. That is a technological impossibility. It does not exist.
That is a manufacturing and design inevitability. There will be varying quality between products. Processor binning is literally predicated on the fact that there is a certain level of defect and performance characteristics on a single wafer. No 2 XSX and PS5 SoC are identical, they are unique.
Not really. The discussion still remains the same to the end of time. There is no such product you can optimize to be perfect.
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