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[Sosokrates]

The power connector is on a different place, too.
There is so much changed. Maybe a more efficient power supply. That would also reduce power draw. But more efficent power supply = increased costs, so I doubt it.

I wonder why they went with such a complicated heatsink shape. I would of thought just doing a huge rectangular heatsink would be cheaper.

 

[Zathalus]

Slightly off topic, but I'm actually from the Netherlands originally. If you have any questions about relocating there, don't be shy to drop me a message. Also if, for whatever reason, you can only bring one console, then bring your PS5. Xsx is pretty easy to find in the Netherlands. Shouldn't take you too long.

Thanks for the offer!

I need to take my XSX though, it's the limited edition Halo version, that is a different matter entirely.

 

[Loxus]

I wonder why they went with such a complicated heatsink shape. I would of thought just doing a huge rectangular heatsink would be cheaper.

True, but I think it has something to do with the heat pipes.

 

[Zathalus]

Eh, even if it was "only" 1-in-15 PlayStation 5 consoles that have audible coil whine, that would be (~22 million sold / 15) = 1.5 million PS5 owners with the problem, which is not insignificant. Even worse considering Sony knew it was an issue when they developed the PS4 Pro and it seems they did nothing to mitigate or fix the problem with their next console.

I don't think it's quite that widespread, just my observation from playing with a bunch of PS5s.

 

[Sosokrates]

Not really. The discussion still remains the same to the end of time. There is no such product you can optimize to be perfect.

Then you have failed at reading my posts because if u had you would know that what I'm saying only applies if they are still using N7P for 1200

I'm saying you do not stop optimizing just because you have released a product

I agree, we just have not seen it to the extent Sony is doing with the PS5, apart from when they shrink the die.

 

[Loxus]

Maybe coil whine is fixed as it seems like they did some changes to the power supply as well.

The power supply in the middle now has holes for ventilation so i would assume some components are different now.

 

[Sosokrates]

True, but I think it has something to do with the heat pipes.

It's probably cost related. Because making a more complicated shaped heatsink, is not optimal for console design. You want things to be almost Modular, Lego like.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

Timestamped:


"Controversial"

 

[Sosokrates]

PS5 slim soon

Probably on 5nm or 3nm.

 

[prinz_valium]

I wonder why they went with such a complicated heatsink shape. I would of thought just doing a huge rectangular heatsink would be cheaper.

Oh yeah. It's a lot cheaper to produce.
Material cost ist just one cost component. Tooling and machine hours another.

The Series X heatsink is definitely cheaper. Even with a vapor chambor and more copper (compared to the new 1200 Modell, the 1000 Modell had even more copper)

 

[Loxus]

It's probably cost related. Because making a more complicated shaped heatsink, is not optimal for console design. You want things to be almost Modular, Lego like.

It's all about airflow though.
Technically the PS5 has 3 heat sinks connected to a single point.

My theory is that unlike traditional CPU heatsinks, where the fan is connected directly to the heatsink.

The PS5 setup is different, where the fan isn't connected directly the heatsink.

Maintaining maximum airflow with the PS5 setup would be difficult with one large heatsink, so that's why we see that 3 heatsink setup. It's easier to get air flowing through and help maximize the heat pipes transfer of heat.

 

[Iced Arcade]

constantly updating and improving your hardware is a win no matter how someone tries to spin it.

 

[Sosokrates]

Oh yeah. It's a lot cheaper to produce.
Material cost ist just one cost component. Tooling and machine hours another.

The Series X heatsink is definitely cheaper. Even with a vapor chambor and more copper (compared to the new 1200 Modell, the 1000 Modell had even more copper)

So why are Sony doing it then?

 

[DonJimbo]

But its still huge

 

[Tripolygon]

Then you have failed at reading my posts because if u had you would know that what I'm saying only applies if they are still using N7P for 1200

You said

I think its using N6, if not sony did not do a great job on the original if so many optimisation were possible.

And I'm saying you can always optimize something to be better given more time and knowledge. Just because you make further optimization does not mean you did not do a good job on the original.

I agree, we just have not seen it to the extent Sony is doing with the PS5, apart from when they shrink the die.

Yes, we have. Sony consoles had over 10 revisions and not just node changes. There were motherboard changes, some ancillary microchip changes, power changes, port changes, and manufacturing changes.

Lets take a look at PS4 1000 vs 1100 changes = 10 months after launch.

1. CUH-1000 has a two-phase circuit between the power supply and the CPU and a four-phase one with the GPU. The CUH-1100 has a one-phase circuit with the CPU and a three-phase circuit linking to the GPU

2. The power supply is now 24 grams lighter and the overall output rating has slightly reduced.

3. The biggest improvement is the heat sink, weighing 324 grams against 298 of the old one. The old model the heat sink had fins change angle and size and were smaller in the low air flow area whereas the new one all of the fins are the same.

 

[Sosokrates]

It's all about airflow though.
Technically the PS5 has 3 heat sinks connected to a single point.

My theory is that unlike traditional CPU heatsinks, where the fan is connected directly to the heatsink.

The PS5 setup is different, where the fan isn't connected directly the heatsink.

Maintaining maximum airflow with the PS5 setup would be difficult with one large heatsink, so that's why we see that 3 heatsink setup. It's easier to get air flowing through and help maximize the heat pipes transfer of heat.

I dont believe that using a rectangular shape would cause less airflow? It doesn't really make sense. I suppose being longer and more spread out heat my transfer slower and disapate faster.

 

[Sosokrates]

you can always optimize something to be better given more time and knowledge. Just because you make further optimization does not mean you did not do a good job on the original.

I never said they didn't do a good job, I said they didn't do a great job.

Yes, we have. Sony consoles had over 10 revisions and not just node changes. There were motherboard changes, some ancillary microchip changes, power changes, port changes, and manufacturing changes.

Lets take a look at PS4 1000 vs 1100 changes = 10 months after launch.

1. CUH-1000 has a two-phase circuit between the power supply and the CPU and a four-phase one with the GPU. The CUH-1100 has a one-phase circuit with the CPU and a three-phase circuit linking to the GPU

2. The power supply is now 24 grams lighter and the overall output rating has slightly reduced.

3. The biggest improvement is the heat sink, weighing 324 grams against 298 of the old one. The old model the heat sink had fins change angle and size and were smaller in the low air flow area whereas the new one all of the fins are the same.

Not to the extent the ps5 is seeing

Below is ps4 1200

And here is the ps4 1100

And while they have clearly changed the heatsink it's not as drastic as the ps5.

 

[Loxus]

I dont believe that using a rectangular shape would cause less airflow? It doesn't really make sense. I suppose being longer and more spread out heat my transfer slower and disapate faster.

How would you get 6 heat pipes to function properly with a L shaped heatsink with out making the PS5 larger that it already is?

The heat pipes are responsible for transferring the heat.
While the fins are responsible for dissipating that heat into the air.
One big L shaped heatsink would just hinder airflow.

 

[Tripolygon]

I never said they didn't do a good job, I said they didn't do a great job.

Not to the extent the ps5 is seeing

Below is ps4 1200


And here is the ps4 1100


And while they have clearly changed the heatsink it's not as drastic as the ps5.

Cost reduction.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Oh yeah. It's a lot cheaper to produce.
Material cost ist just one cost component. Tooling and machine hours another.

The Series X heatsink is definitely cheaper. Even with a vapor chambor and more copper (compared to the new 1200 Modell, the 1000 Modell had even more copper)

No. From my fuzzy memory it was about 30 to 50% heavier than PS5 one (1000 model). It's probably like more than twice heavier than the 1200 model now!

 

[TheUsual]

Why in the whole wide world would they lower the price when the demand outweighs the demand massively? It's a company, not a charity.

Also, we have no idea what the R&D cost or hur much cheaper the new design is to manufacture.

Or how much raw material pricing has gone up as well. Even with contract pricing, things change. Just because they use less material, doesn't mean it will cost less to make.

 

[RoboFu]

Punctuation is important.

New PS5 model. It is lighter, uses less W, and possibly more efficient in cooling​

or

New PS5 model released that is lighter, uses less W, and possibly more efficient in cooling​

 

[johnjohn]

Also more expensive.

 

[onnextflix5]

There sure are other polls. Like this one which has 75% of participants reporting that their unit has coil whine. Literally every single forum related to video games has at least one or more huge threads on the issue. Several high profile gaming tech YouTubers have addressed this. You can find plenty of examples all over youtube.

Implying that it is but a fraction of users is flat out ridiculous. It is a genuine widespread issue. The only reason the Series X is brought up is because it took actual steps to prevent it and I, and I'm sure many others, would like Sony to do the same.

I’m PlayStation fan, went through 4 ps5s all had coil whine, it’s a problem that no wants talk about as most don’t know what it is, aswell as the problem is not game breaking, overall ps5 is much more quiet then the jet engine ps3 ps4 and ps4 pro.

 

[scydrex]

I’m PlayStation fan, went through 4 ps5s all had coil whine, it’s a problem that no wants talk about as most don’t know what it is, aswell as the problem is not game breaking, overall ps5 is much more quiet then the jet engine ps3 ps4 and ps4 pro.

Don't know if mine has coil wine probably does but at least i Don't hear a jet engine like the launch PS4 or the Pro... had both, sold them and then brought a PS4 slim.

 

[Loxus]

Don't know if mine has coil wine probably does but at least i Don't hear a jet engine like the launch PS4 or the Pro... had both, sold them and then brought a PS4 slim.

Exactly, anyone complaining about coil whine is just trying to find ways to fault the PS5.
The fan is louder than coil whine and can barely hear the fan unless you go up really close.

 

[rofif]

I gotta give it to the Austin guy. He owns his controversy and didn't come out as an asshat this time.
Good for him haha.

I wonder how the new model will behave with dust. The "dust catchers" are kinda gone and replaced by bigger cavities

 

[Investor9872]

Waiting for this guy to make a review:

Oh, snap!! There's already a link to it in the Verge article

That is the goofiest mother *ucker I've ever seen!

 

[3liteDragon]

Owning a PS5 now really showed me how exaggerated this coil whine issue was on here, it was the main thing I was worried about before getting the console when I started reading the posts here. I play with headphones now so it doesn’t make a difference, but I literally had to put my ears right beside the console to even hear it. It’s dead silent when I’m on the couch.

I have the digital edition CFI-1100 model btw.

 

[Investor9872]

Same as above. Mine is the CFI-1100 physical model instead. Whispering quiet.

 

[SlimySnake]

Owning a PS5 now really showed me how exaggerated this coil whine issue was on here, it was the main thing I was worried about before getting the console when I started reading the posts here. I play with headphones now so it doesn’t make a difference, but I literally had to put my ears right beside the console to even hear it. It’s dead silent when I’m on the couch.

I have the digital edition CFI-1100 model btw.

Not every console has the same coil whine.

 

[Tommi84]

I literally had to put my ears right beside the console to even hear it. .

Happy for you. Mine can be heard from another room. Especially while playing more demanding PS5 games

 

[3liteDragon]

Not every console has the same coil whine.

Every coil whine video I’ve seen has the phone mic right near the console which makes it sound very loud (no shit that’s gonna be the loudest thing you’re gonna hear) but I don’t think it’s as big as an issue with the majority of consoles like it’s being described on here, I think it’s definitely in the minority.

 

[3liteDragon]

Happy for you. Mine can be heard from another room. Especially while playing more demanding PS5 games

You have the disc or digital version? That’s insane.

 

[Ivan]

Can't wait for someone to test the coil whine noise...Just imagine it being fixed. Sounds surreal, but their focus on noise on Cerny's ps5 presentation sounded like that too. It is such a shame to have a system that well egineered with fixable problem like coil whine (at least use MS solution).

 

[Edgelord79]

Only time I hear my PS5 is when the disc drive engages. It is really quiet overall, as is my XSX. Sucks yours has that issue.

Mine did too. However I really haven’t heard it over the last couple of months. We called it the Boeing. Not sure if they could release something in firmware that could fix it, buts it’s literally gone now.

 

[MrA]

that's a pretty big revision, probably going to be a slim model next year

 

[Ivan]

Maybe coil whine is fixed as it seems like they did some changes to the power supply as well.

The power supply in the middle now has holes for ventilation so i would assume some components are different now.

God, I hope you are right...Nice find!

 

[sloppyjoe_gamer]

Can't wait for someone to test the coil whine noise...Just imagine it being fixed. Sounds surreal, but their focus on noise on Cerny's ps5 presentation sounded like that too. It is such a shame to have a system that well egineered with fixable problem like coil whine (at least use MS solution).

Not every PS5 has it though, that's the problem. I feel for those that have it and as someone who is super OCD about my gaming stuff it would drive me insane also. Mine from well over a year ago is as dead silent now at anytime, no matter where i sit and for how long i play, as it was on day one. These new revisions will ultimately (hopefully) have the design that addresses everything.

 

[kyliethicc]

That would dash any hopes of a slim model.

They should work on reducing size as well.

No. TSMC N6 is just a denser, slightly more efficient version of N7. Not a true node shrink.

A PS5 slim would require using TSMC 5nm. Just as the PS4 to PS4 slim went from 28nm to 16nm.

And so far they’re following last gen.

2013 - PS4 - 1000 model
2014 - PS4 - 1100 model
2015 - PS4 - 1200 model
2016 - PS4 slim - 2000 model

2020 - PS5 - 1000 model
2021 - PS5 - 1100 model
2022 - PS5 - 1200 model
2023 - ?

 

[Rocco Schiavone]

Hopefully Gamersnexus will deliver the goods. Like always.

 

[ReBurn]

But its still huge

It's not going to get smaller any time soon because Sony is making all these nifty faceplates that they want people to pay them 50 bucks for.

 

[Rykan]

Owning a PS5 now really showed me how exaggerated this coil whine issue was on here, it was the main thing I was worried about before getting the console when I started reading the posts here. I play with headphones now so it doesn’t make a difference, but I literally had to put my ears right beside the console to even hear it. It’s dead silent when I’m on the couch.

I have the digital edition CFI-1100 model btw.

This is why having a discussion about this subject is frustrating. People are constantly trying to argue that those talking about it are "exaggerating" or in some cases "Lying" to "Discredit" the PS5, which is frankly ridiculous.

Here are some facts about coil whine:
- Not every system has coil whine. Whether your system has coil whine or not depends on how certain parts are embedded. Since these parts vibrate when you play the system, a few things can happen:
- Coil whine can go away. Coil Whine can get less. Coil Whine can get worse. Coil whine can start at any time in a system that previously didn't have coil whine. It all depends on how certain components are embedded.
- How much Coil whine you get depends entirely on what you do with the system. The more power the system needs, the louder the coil whine will be. Here are some examples from my own previous PS5:

I had no coil whine in the system menu. No coil whine when playing BC PS4 games. Very little coil whine playing PS5 games at 30 fps. But the moment a game runs at 60 FPS? That system starts screeching. It's extremely distracting when you're playing games with a lot of silence, such as Demon's Souls or Resident Evil 8.

I've been playing games for well over 25 years. I've owned high end PC's loaded with fans. Xbox 360's. PS4 Pro's. PS5 is the ONLY system where I absolutely had to use a headset to play it. The difference between coil whine and Fan noise is that fan noise is "white noise". It can be distracting, but it's much easier to ignore than coil whine which is a loud, high pitched grinding noise. So no, it's absolutely not exaggerated. You just won the PS5 lottery. There's a difference.

 

[twilo99]

Have Sony done this kind of thing before? It’s almost like they rushed the initial spec out the door and they are slowly improving the design..

I always thought that we would see a “pro” version sooner of the PS5 much sooner than any of the previous generations, but these small incremental upgrades are very surprising.

 

[twilo99]

No. TSMC N6 is just a denser, slightly more efficient version of N7. Not a true node shrink.

A PS5 slim would require using TSMC 5nm. Just as the PS4 to PS4 slim went from 28nm to 16nm.

And so far they’re following last gen.

2013 - PS4 - 1000 model
2014 - PS4 - 1100 model
2015 - PS4 - 1200 model
2016 - PS4 slim - 2000 model

2020 - PS5 - 1000 model
2021 - PS5 - 1100 model
2022 - PS5 - 1200 model
2023 - ?

Ok that’s normal for them, it’s just surprising how much different this new seems..

 

[kyliethicc]

Ok that’s normal for them, it’s just surprising how much different this new seems..

The 1200 model PS4 had a slight cosmetic change, and also consumed less energy. Among other changes.

 

[Tommi84]

You have the disc or digital version? That’s insane.

Disc.

If I play games in BC then that's not an issue. But Ratchet? Demon's Souls, Metro Exodus PS5? Oh, boy. Nothing I can do about it. Tgought about replacing it, but the info on Gaf that people were getting even worse console made me reconsider .

Though it's still vastklly quieter than my jet-engine PS4

 

[Arcadialane]

PS5 slim with different colours would be nice

 

[supernova8]

This is not the reason of why they didn't rise the price in USA: one of the main reason is the rise of the dollar and inflation in a good part 'thanks' to the war in Ukraine and Europe deciding to stop buying gas and oil to Rusia and to buy it to USA instead. A particularly strong dollar hurts the currency exchange for the other countries, not to USA.

They have like about twice the market share in active consoles and game subs than MS, aren't worried about them.

The other main reason that affects the whole world is the sudden rise of shipments (due to rise of fuel cost) and rise of components independently than if they -as always do every generation- periodically they review the internal design recuding costs.

All these things combined caused a costs rise way higher than the 10% they rised in the pricing. The thing is that the disc console was already being sold at a loss and the discless SKU was barely sold at a profit, so now both must be sellling at an important loss and this price is to reduce that loss.

It doesn't really matter where costs are rising. It only matters that costs are rising for Sony overall as a company (or for PS5 overall globally).

If you consider that the US market accounts for about half of all PS5 sales to date (9m of the 20m total ish - I'm going off VGChartz, I know, sue me), they could have raised the price across the board (including in the USA) but by less per console (assuming they have an assumption for how much they expect total costs to increase, it doesn't matter how they balance it. They could've done, say, a $30 increase across the board).

That's why I simply don't buy the argument that US pricing has stayed the same. Besides, if the dollar appreciating is really such a big then why isn't the US getting a price cut? Exactly. They simply chose not raise US pricing because they do not want to give Xbox any ground. I'm not complaining about that in particular, I'm just saying that claiming anything else is silly and is an insult to people's intelligence.

 

[Allandor]

Maybe there is just better chip selection used for the newer models. So they can reduce voltages and therefore reduce the cooling solution. I wouldn't thing they use 6nm as it would be more expensive, it would have also reduced the die size.