ArcaneNLSC
Member
A true enthusiast will find a way!
So that's where the Xbox Series X got its cooling/fan solution from
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So that's where the Xbox Series X got its cooling/fan solution from
ArcaneNLSC
Member
ToadMan
Member
Cerny already described the operation of RT and he specifically said its the RDNA2 solution. That means it’s the same as MS showed at hot chips - a TMU/RT processor inside each CU.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
yep. Ps5 and xsx rt are identical. No secret sauce in either console's rt implementation.
ToadMan
Member
Yes we know how RT on PS5 operates. When we had just Cerny’s presentation, I could see how that may not have been quite detailed enough.
But after hot chips - specifically the TMU/RT processor embedded within each CU - it’s clear that Cerny’s description and what MS showed are the same principle of operation.
That question has been asked and answered.
ZywyPL
Banned
For the average Joe who just wants to play another GTA, CoD, Assasin, BF, Fifa, etc. it's all that matters, he will always pick the cheapest box. Because why overpay to play the exact same game?
Lunatic_Gamer
Gold Member
PlayStation 5 Might Be Able To Identify Users Holding A DualSense
According to a recently granted patent, Sony understands that players have a tendency to log into their personal PlayStation accounts when playing on a different console. This is so that players can keep track of their in-game progress or access their account-specific content and settings.
The solution proposed by Sony is to have the console system, for example a PlayStation 5 console, automatically detect players and their individual PlayStation accounts when they pick up a DualSense controller. The patented method mentions one or more sensors configured into the controller that can identify players and immediately log into their PlayStation accounts. Hence, players will never need to manually enter their private passwords.
segmentnext.com
According to a recently granted patent, Sony understands that players have a tendency to log into their personal PlayStation accounts when playing on a different console. This is so that players can keep track of their in-game progress or access their account-specific content and settings.
The solution proposed by Sony is to have the console system, for example a PlayStation 5 console, automatically detect players and their individual PlayStation accounts when they pick up a DualSense controller. The patented method mentions one or more sensors configured into the controller that can identify players and immediately log into their PlayStation accounts. Hence, players will never need to manually enter their private passwords.
PlayStation 5 Might Be Able To Identify Users Holding A DualSense
Sony Interactive Entertainment has been looking into additional security and privacy measures, presumably for PlayStation 5, that completely change how
segmentnext.com
Neo Blaster
Member
geordiemp
Member
Your missing the point, the point is nothing to do with voxels or the game......
Matt (ex playstation ps5 dev and likes to tease) emphasising performance benefits of heavy customisation on lower powered hardware........is his cryptic clue.....
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FeiRR
Banned
I haven't seen anything close to a fingerprint sensor on DS. No, the touchpad can't do that unless it's completely different from the previous one. But it would be very expensive.PlayStation 5 Might Be Able To Identify Users Holding A DualSense
According to a recently granted patent, Sony understands that players have a tendency to log into their personal PlayStation accounts when playing on a different console. This is so that players can keep track of their in-game progress or access their account-specific content and settings.
The solution proposed by Sony is to have the console system, for example a PlayStation 5 console, automatically detect players and their individual PlayStation accounts when they pick up a DualSense controller. The patented method mentions one or more sensors configured into the controller that can identify players and immediately log into their PlayStation accounts. Hence, players will never need to manually enter their private passwords.
PlayStation 5 Might Be Able To Identify Users Holding A DualSense
Sony Interactive Entertainment has been looking into additional security and privacy measures, presumably for PlayStation 5, that completely change how
If they do that, I hope you can switch it off. I don't play on other consoles and I don't want my CC details to be there, even in my presence.
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J_Gamer.exe
Member
Richard still thinks PS5 is RDNA1
Time stamp?
I find it funny though he says Xbox deserves kudos for transparency and full disclosure because we have a full grasp of the systems capabilities because of what they have revealed and there is no vacuum of information, that seemingly a dig at Sony.
But by Richards own measure for praise surely then they deserve much criticism for the lack of clarity on what games actually running on the console play like and perform like, its almost like they are hiding it isnt it?
FeiRR
Banned
13:00 more or less. And yes, his transparency rant is so obvious that Microsoft keeps him at the tit but Sony probably saw Digital Fanboys' lack of professionalism and just dropped them, hence he goes back to the old FUD strategy. He can't even get his facts straight in one video. At some point he says that SD will be just speed improvement and then while discussing slides notices that it's a strategy to counter expensive DDRAM chips situation.
ZywyPL
Banned
Same as Spider-Man, so nothing is impossible.
geordiemp
Member
An Eutectic alloy so it will be a mix of 3 or more metals including Ga. Having a clever seal allows the compount mix to be made that does not have the risk of moving over nearby conductors and killling the PCB....The mix ratios can be optimised for the application in a closed space (different to the PC application where its open).
What the specs are nobody knows,.
AeneaGames
Member
DrDamn
Member
sircaw
Banned
Finally! We drove theto madness, can I now eat it?
Do you have no Sole?
geordiemp
Member
Except the tease at the end of the Cerny patent where the vertices are compressed allowing faster and more utliisation to the final GPU stages.....and the last little bit saying allows more functions to be applied at the next function block such as pixel shader.....but could it also help RT ?
Not so clear cut is it...
AeneaGames
Member
Not wearing any shoes, so no soles either!
sircaw
Banned
i was talking about the fish dammit.
ToadMan
Member
I also thought it was weird he talked about Sony’s promotion of Sound processing capability and suggested that it was just marketing because MS’s solution is stronger than MS had previously revealed.
But to me the same can be said about RT. MS had been hyping up their RT hardware - you’d be forgiven for thinking it was specific to the Xsex, only to find it’s stock RDNA2 and identical to the PS5 implementation.
I think the same may turn out to be true for the geometry engine. Cerny talked in terms that implied the geometry engine was custom and perhaps even unique on PS5 only to find that MS has a Geometry Engine on their APU - presumably it offers the same set of functions.
To be honest, going beyond DF, it seems to
me that AMD wouldn’t allow MS or Sony to get a specific advantage from AMD’s tech. That would be a bad look for AMD on whichever console was hobbled and it’d be bad for future console contracts for AMD.
I suspect that if AMD noticed a significant divergence in capability between the consoles, they’d give a “nudge in the right direction” to get them going towards the same overall performance goal. In fact going beyond that I think Sony and MS would also tacitly agree to share their data because neither wants to be the manufacturer that produces a console too exotic for 3rd parties to work with - Sony definitely don’t want another PS3 scenario and MS don’t want an Xb1 either.
The differences in performance will probably only be down to the manufacturer specific custom hardware outside of the AMD tech and other system components - that SSD and things like dualsense.
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FeiRR
Banned
I was thinking about it and I got to the same conclusion that it's enclosed. Which reminded me of the photo tour of that automated PS factory in Japan. The problem with PS4 Pro is bad assembly. Some people like
Bo_Hazem
have quiet units while others, me included, have jet engines. Such variance cannot be a design fault, it's down to assembly. I know that the PS factory cannot produce enough units to meet the demand, it's probably more an experiment and field study case. But I guess Sony wants to move their production to automated plants in the long run. Which is a great idea because it will mean more consistency and quality of their precise products.you've been away from the thread too long. this is the new norm now
J_Gamer.exe
Member
Yes seems like reaching to me.
This what I post on the YouTube comments on his video...
Quick resume speed is good in its own right, but not when you compare to PS5.
PS5 is a generation ahead.
Take the 6.5 seconds shown by xbox on last gen titles remember using less ram. Richard claims it takes less time to load than it does to save the last game...OK. let's go with 2.5 seconds (a guess, but until we provided with facts....)to load a last gen 9gb game, which I dont thinks that right anyway but...
Thats 3.6gb per second if the games use 9gb which some won't what were shown. Its likely lower than this because the games won't have all been 9gb.
That would mean Microsoft is indeed losing speed via bottlenecks. Otherwise their 4.8 gb would carry through.
PS5 should transfer all speed through as they eliminated all bottlenecks.
They were at 8-9gb per second. That was before oodle texture came out offering similar compression to bcpack. I wouldn't be surprised if PS5 now sits at about closer to 11gb a second.
Even if it doesnt its likely 2.5 times faster than the xbox. Thats a huge difference when you consider people are bragging about 15% difference in gpus.
Also he says don't expect instant loading on PS5 straight away either...
Ermmm.
Think he will be proved wrong there....
I can't see how even at 8.5gbs for PS5, when its likely faster now, that it takes any longer than 1.5 or so seconds.
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J_Gamer.exe
Member
Maybe, but do we know the geometry engine is the same. I thought it was mentioned for a while now that xbox version may be less advanced... im sure
Apollo Helios
showed deleted tweets between a microsoft employee breaking nda and matt hargett....Also does the coherency hardware means it the same? I know cache scrubbers were unique to PS.
Just seems so many more questions.
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hemo memo
Gold Member
If not there is always the week after. But seriously, most likely early September with an announcement next week.
FeiRR
Banned
The whole game switching stunt was very surprising. I don't watch DF in general because it's just a waste of time but I decided to go with this one because it was the first video about Hot Chips. Just after a short advertising section about wonderful transparency of Microsoft he went on to a totally off-topic thing with game switching.Yes seems like reaching to me.
This what I post on the YouTube comments on his video...
Quick resume speed is good in its own right, but not when you compare to PS5.
PS5 is a generation ahead.
Take the 6.5 seconds shown by xbox on last gen titles remember using less ram. Richard claims it takes less time to load than it does to save the last game...OK. let's go with 2.5 seconds (a guess, but until we provided with facts....)to load a last gen 9gb game, which I dont thinks that right anyway but...
Thats 3.6gb per second if the games use 9gb which some won't what were shown. Its likely lower than this because the games won't have all been 9gb.
That would mean Microsoft is indeed losing speed via bottlenecks. Otherwise their 4.8 gb would carry through.
PS5 should transfer all speed through as they eliminated all bottlenecks.
They were at 8-9gb per second. That was before oodle texture came out offering similar compression to bcpack. I wouldn't be surprised if PS5 now sits at about closer to 11gb a second.
Even if it doesnt its likely 2.5 times faster than the xbox. Thats a huge difference when you consider people are bragging about 15% difference in gpus.
Also he says don't expect instant loading on PS5 straight away either...
Ermmm.
Think he will be proved wrong there....
I can't see how even at 8.5gbs for PS5, when its likely faster now, that it takes any longer than 1.5 or so seconds.
Just a reminder, Oodle texture won't help a single bit with game switching. It's an in-engine feature, not system level one. Generally, compression won't play a significant role. I expect games on PS5 to switch in about 2 seconds, based on SSD specs. DF claiming that we won't see any benefits at launch and loadings won't be instant on both platforms is just damage control for Microsoft's failure to have VA ready for launch.
moment. PS4 games used 5.5GB RAM and the PS5 SSD is 5.5GB/sec. 1 second to load in the entire usable memory of a PS4 game.
DrDamn
Member
I was pondering this - if essentially you back-up memory state to the SSD and read in another previously backed up memory state then use-specific compression algorithms can't help. General compressing should though shouldn't it? Basic Zlib, for example, is supported by the compression/decompression hardware so it should play something of a role.
J_Gamer.exe
Member
Yeah, well in reality game switching won't be where the comparisons are mainly, it'll be game load times and its going to be funny to see him have to back track on that one.
We've already seen it in ratchet and Clank and at most it was 2 seconds but often less and that included the portal animation which presumably can only kick on once loaded. There's even one where it takes about 1 second all in when it goes to a more linear world.
Presuming they weren't using oodle texture in ratchet as it wasn't announced yet or maybe they were, maybe it'll even improve on what we saw.
But yes Richards seemingly gone off on a bit of a damage controlling tangent, I mean when you get flown out to see XSX and get exclusive access im sure that has no effect on criticising nothing running on series x hardware and coming up with IMO shaky statements about loading times.
FeiRR
Banned
Of course, general compression will work and I'm almost 100% sure they'll use it. Let's see, PS5 games will be anything up to.. probably 14 GB of RAM pool (minus about 2 GB max for the system and apps). Let's say they use 4 slots instead of 6 in Xbox (I still hope you'll be able to decide yourself in options how many slots you want). That's almost 60 GB out of precious 825 we get in the internal chips. Worse, it won't be 825 because of filesystem and OS. I expect something around 750 GB at most, probably 720. Do you see where it's going? That's a huge trade-off of having blazing fast SSD: little storage space. I'm okay with this, I have fast Internet and can redownload a game in minutes. It gets worse with disks though, BD -> SSD won't be faster than it is now because BD speeds haven't changed much for years. A lot of people will complain.
kyliethicc
Member
I highly doubt PS5 will have a quick resume switch games thing like Xbox.
Sony is taking a different approach by pulling actions from currently in-game menus out to the home screen of the OS, like resuming a singleplayer save or joining a multiplayer match, all from the home screen, quickly.
Saving one's game state could just be done conventionally with game saves like we all use now, then simply close the app in 1-2 seconds, and return home, then launch a new game in 1-2 seconds.
If booting games directly into gameplay from a save can be done from the home screen, and takes 2 seconds, whats the point of a "reload your game's ram and resume in 5 seconds" feature?
It would also require a portion of the SSD partitioned off just for saving ram states from games, and the PS5 is a bit low on storage size already.
It is not something most people will use or need. Most people just play 1 game then shut it down. Maybe they play a bit, quit, and open a second game from the home screen, but not 3-4 games rapidly. The constant switch, switch back, seems a niche need/use.
Obviously, I assume the PS5 will still have the same quick switch from game to store or from game to Netflix style thing the PS4 has already, but I doubt they would expand that function beyond switching between a game and non-game app.
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J_Gamer.exe
Member
Maybe the FUD people got mixed up and its was this that PS5 couldnt do...
It's all becoming clear...
FeiRR
Banned
He also lied again about Minecraft RT, saying that it was running between 30 and 60 FPS while you can see in the b-roll they got from Microsoft that it's more like 15-20. And this is coming from a guy who earns his living by counting frames.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
I was thinking about it and I got to the same conclusion that it's enclosed. Which reminded me of the photo tour of that automated PS factory in Japan. The problem with PS4 Pro is bad assembly. Some people like
I think also not having an AC (sustained 23-25C room temperature or lower) could also add to that noise problem? Not sure. I've never cleaned mine, and it has those hairy dusts in the vents and it's still very quite, barely hear a thing from time to time and some times it gets turned on accidentally for half a day and don't notice it.
J_Gamer.exe
Member
Now come on, im sure there is other explanations for that
they said some slow down or something didn't they with the captured footage they got?...Whatever it was even taking what they saw to be true, its still not impressive to most, because its Minecraft. Yes great full path traced an impressive technological feat but realistically most dont care unless what they are seeing looks impressive.
FeiRR
Banned
Nah, I'm at 27 now because it's a freaking heatwave but in winter I prefer around 20, still jet engine. It has new, professional paste applied. There must be a misalignment problem. I'm just letting it be, 3 months to go and then "sold as is" on auction.
FeiRR
Banned
You work in frame counting. You get a video from a trillion dollar corporation which shows stuttering footage of a game. You immediately jump to the conclusion that it's the fault of the video.Now come on, im sure there is other explanations for that
Whatever it was even taking what they saw to be true, its still not impressive to most, because its Minecraft. Yes great full path traced an impressive technological feat but realistically most dont care unless what they are seeing looks impressive.
I mean, makes sense, doesn't it?
I mean, that video is very old. Minecraft RT might be in a much better shape now. But how about just say it? Pre-alpha footage, we'll do it better for launch...
danielJackson
Banned
More likely that some xbox fanboys just cant handle that PS5 would do anything better, so they see few words they dont understand = xsex can do it!
If Microsoft would have engineered xsex to have epic 3D audio from the begining, they would have praised it already for months as they have praised their buzzword stuff constantly.
So their solution isnt probably as customized and sophisticated as Sonys, while it still is probably good enough for most of the time
J_Gamer.exe
Member
Yes of course its odd, I'm sure they would jump on any signs of issues on a PS5 video.
I like DF buts it's a bit disappointing we don't get fairness applied evenly across the board.
There's only so much damage conteol can be done ultimately the facts are going be here and speaking for themselves and I see a bit of backtracking on certain statements.
We already seen Alex didn't think ps5 had hardware RT didnt he?
chilichote
Member
So this 1,18x/1,2x flop-thing is based on nothing but your gutfeeling?
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B_Boss
Member
I say you should tweet exactly your response to him and have a nice mature discussion concerning both your perspectives.
J_Gamer.exe
Member
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Elog
Member
There is some weirdness going on though. Firstly, listening to Cerny's words and taking them as gospel (which of course might be incorrect), he claims that the RT solution 'uses the same strategy as what is in AMD's RDNA2 solution'. Then he makes a connection between the custom made GE and how it interacts with the intersection engine. And finally, he claims that the intersection engine (the computational heavy part of the RT equation) can act in parallel with the shaders.
Based on the MS presentation, there seemed to be more or less a direct competition between RT work and shader work, i.e. not parallel.
Finally, looking at the Ghostwire Tokyo screenshots it seems the PS5 can do quite a lot of RT.
if you add in that the GitHub leaks - that in retrospect was quite accurate - lacked RT data from AMD on the PS5 GPU CU benchmarks, it seems that the PS5 is doing something differently here. We have to wait and see if this is true, and if it is true what that difference is.
I guess what I am saying is that there are a lot of breadcrumbs telling us that there is something different - positively so - with the PS5 RT solution.
RDNA1 had a geometry engine...the existence means nothing (see https://hexus.net/tech/news/graphics/131555-the-architecture-behind-amds-rdna-navi-gpus/ - first slide 'Navi Stats'). It is the content that matters.
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T-Cake
Member
I see where you're coming from but what about games that use checkpoint save systems and nothing manual? You'd be a bit screwed then.
kyliethicc
Member
Just imagine how it works currently, but it can be resumed from the home screen of the PS5 OS in 2 seconds. The "quick resume" Xbox feature is only needed if resuming is faster than booting the game.
Currently, in say Uncharted 4, if I'm playing chapter 10 and then quit and close game, my game is saved at checkpoint in chapter 10. Turn PS4 off.
Next time, I then have to turn on my PS4, go to Uncharted 4 in OS, boot the game, get to the main menu of game, "continue" to load my save, and finally I'm back to chapter 10 checkpoint.
As they describe for PS5, its much faster. Turn on the PS5, go to Uncharted 4 in OS, and "continue" my save directly from OS, and in 2 seconds I'm back playing chapter 10 checkpoint.
No point in saving that state of RAM to the SSD if it doesn't make getting back into gameplay any faster.
We will still be able to just put the console into "rest mode" which suspends the current game and allows for resuming that game upon waking the console back up from rest. The PS4 already does that.
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T-Cake
Member
kyliethicc
Got you.- Status