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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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SlimeGooGoo

SlimeGooGoo

Party Gooper
GAFfe machine said:
we are cloud-gaming pioneers
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God, I hate when companies want to force down people's throats that they are the "pioneer" of x or y, when in reality you have at least five other companies pushing the exact same thing.

Same goes for VR, everybody wants to be remembered for being the "pioneer", regardless of being true or not.

Just make a decent product, ffs.
 
3liteDragon

3liteDragon

Member
TheGreatWhiteShark said:
so you really think a 36 CU 10.28TF unit will be "more performant" than a 52 CU 12.15TF unit

tenor.gif
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3liteDragon said:
“X percent weaker”, “X percent stronger”, “More powerful”, “Less powerful”.

12.15 TFLOPs and 10.28 TFLOPs are THEORETICAL peak numbers used for measuring single-precision (32-bit) floating-point performance. The real question here is, which console is gonna get closer to that peak TFLOPs number?

Like I said before, it’s pointless arguing over which one’s more powerful based on a theoretical TFLOPs number which we know both consoles will NEVER hit unless VALU (Vector ALU) utilization is at 100%. Hitting 100% VALU utilization is IMPOSSIBLE unless you’re conducting insane benchmarks on these consoles which tries to use ALL the CUs in parallel for computing.
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Angel of BOOM!

Angel of BOOM!

Member
FunkMiller said:
You can do this with every Amazon store, if you know the country URL abbreviation after the second dot. Here's the UK's equivalent:


Ps5 at 9. XSX at 47.

EDIT: Here's Australia:

Amazon.com.au Best Sellers: The most popular items in Video Games

Amazon.com.au Best Sellers: The most popular items in Video Games
www.amazon.com.au

Ps5 at 12. XSX at 94.
Click to expand...

And as with any lists like this, it's likely to be exponential. #1 is far more than #12 and #12 is far more than #94.

Still early days...
 
Shmunter

Shmunter

Member
kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
GAFfe machine said:
In light of media reports about Jim Ryan saying PS5 is not backwards compatible with PS1, 2 and 3, HipHopGamer’s doubling down didn’t make sense to me initially; but after pondering over the contradiction and giving the spec sheets of PS4/pro and PS5 another glance over to see what was different about their optical drives, something struck me as peculiar. Look at the optical drives for each system...

PS4/pro:
- Optical Drive: BD x6 CAV, DVD x8 CAV (read only)

PS5
- Ultra HD Blu-ray (66G/100G) ~10xCAV
- BD-ROM (25G/50G) ~8x CAV
- BD-R/RE (25G/50G) ~8x CAV
- DVD ~3.2x CLV

Doesn’t it seem odd to you that SIE would replace PS4/pro's faster DVD 8x CAV mode with a much slower DVD 3.2x CLV mode?...

It seems odd to me because PS1 reads CDs at 2x speed in CLV mode only. And on top of that, according to some very old posts by two devs (inpHilltr8r and Falafada (the latter is said to be an SCE dev)) on another forum, PS2 reads DVDs at 2x speed in CLV mode (in CAV mode PS2 reads DVDs at 4x speed). Here's some of what they had to say about PS2’s drive...

(note: If you care to read the threads in full, search the following: ‘PS3 vs 360 Drive Speed Question’, the first result that pops up should be from Beyond3D. If you only care to read the dev posts, jump to pg.4)…

"The PS2 drive can operate in either CAV or CLV mode. CAV is faster, but less stable, and only works on one layer of a dual layer disc. We ran the drive in CLV mode, and I don't want to revisit the amount of time I spent laying out the 8GB of data we crammed onto the disc." -- inpHilltr8r

"From what I remember CLV defaults to minimum CAV speed, meaning you get 2xDVD across the whole disc, instead of only inner layer." -- Falafada

And there’s more. What's with the addition of a BD-R/RE ~8x CAV mode for PS5? This also seems odd to me because in the same forum thread a post was made (on pg. 5) by a third dev who in reply to a forum-goer's assumption that PS3's BD drive was CLV, said...

"Nope, we have an 8x BD-R/RE drive that's P-CAV..." -- archie4oz

As I’ve come to understand, P-CAV is a derivative of CAV that can run in both CLV and CAV modes. The drive spins the disc in CAV mode when reading (or writing) near the inner part of the disc, then switches to CLV for the outer part of the disc.

On the surface, it appears PS5's optical drive has modes to read PS1, 2 and 3 discs. For me, this lends credence to HHG’s claim. Now here’s the conundrum: HHG said PS5 is backwards compatible with PS1, 2 and 3; Ryan said it isn’t… or so the media says…

I interpreted Ryan’s words differently. Before I get into it, here’s the half-decent machine translation of the Q&A I read…

-- In the story, I was surprised that PS4 titles are 99% compatible. By the way, is it compatible with PS1, PS2, and PS3 titles? -- Famitsu
Ryan We have been building devices with a focus on PS5-specific engineering. Among them, PS4 already has 100 million players, so I thought that I would like to play PS4 titles on PS5 as well, so I introduced PS4 compatibility. While achieving that, we focused on incorporating high-speed SSDs and the new controller "DualSense" in parallel. So, unfortunately, compatibility with them has not been achieved. -- Jim Ryan

My interpretation of Ryan: PS4 compatibility is a PS5-specific ”device”. The high-speed SSD and DualSense are also PS5-specific devices; so unfortunately, PS1, 2 and 3 titles will not be compatible with them (the high-speed SSD and DualSense).

If my interpretation is correct, then HHG will have been proven right about PS1, 2 and 3 backwards compatibility for PS5 working in conjunction with PS Now, and Jim Ryan will have maintained the element of surprise. In any event, we’ll find Soon’y enough…

“we are cloud-gaming pioneers, and our vision should become clear as we head toward launch” -- Mark Cerny
Click to expand...
Interesting but I still no way how the PS5 can read CDs. It says it cannot. PS4 cannot either.
 
FunkMiller

FunkMiller

Member
Angel of BOOM! said:
And as with any lists like this, it's likely to be exponential. #1 is far more than #12 and #12 is far more than #94.

Still early days...
Click to expand...

The Amazon algorithm is such a closely guarded secret that even senior Amazon staff don't know how it functions. If anyone tries to find out, Jeff comes over and baseball bats you in the face, like in The Untouchables. Although a rough estimate of the Kindle ebook chart as a comparison point puts number 1 at about 2700-3000 ebook sales a day, number 10 at about 650-750 a day, and 50 at about 200- 250 a day. So if we extrapolate that to the video game charts, we get a very rough ratio difference of the Ps5 outselling the XSX by about 2.5 to 1... ish.
 
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G

gt_connect

Neo Member
VargasPaPuM said:

Microsoft’s New Xbox Series X Compression Tech Might Solve Next-Gen Storage Woes | ExtremeTech

Storage capacities aren't increasing nearly as much as game sizes are with this generation of consoles. Microsoft has ideas for ...
www.extremetech.com www.extremetech.com

Click to expand...



That's before rad game tools came with this solution (oodle textures), and now ps5 has the same solution of encoding BCN textures...




And that's what happened, sony acquired a license for all ps4 ps5 developers, an equivalent of bcpack for ps5 (same feature), oodle textures
 
geordiemp

geordiemp

Member
VargasPaPuM said:

Microsoft’s New Xbox Series X Compression Tech Might Solve Next-Gen Storage Woes | ExtremeTech

Storage capacities aren't increasing nearly as much as game sizes are with this generation of consoles. Microsoft has ideas for ...
www.extremetech.com www.extremetech.com

Click to expand...


Thats from March, the difference was BCpack had a form of oodle textures, now Sony have it as well.

So they both do RDO compression. Whats your point exactly other tah cut and pasting infromation before oodle textures ?

They will both compress textures with lamda around 40. Same shit.

Difference now is only Kraken vs Zlib.
 
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M

Moridianae

Member
Very detailed interpretation and speculation there regarding PS Legacy BC(as I call it). I wish it would happen, but it seems that's not in the cards. I posit some counters:

1.) The PlayStation library holds some of the most beloved games of all time across these generations. If the PS5 did indeed have the ability to do this, why would they hold back such a megaton? It doesn't make sense this late in the game.

2.) Monetization via digital is of paramount importance this generation. Both sides are making the strides towards an increasingly all-digital future.

Consoles past this generation most likely will not possess physical drives. Sony would most likely go with the monetization of a fully loaded PS Now to drive more revenue with a legacy library across PS1-3. I don't know if that theyd be able to read games as well.

3.) Emulation of PS1 and PS2 are probably stupidly easy to do. PS3 seems to be an entirely different beast, though RPCS3 has shown it to be more than capable, especially of the most recent update.
 
BlueXImpulse

BlueXImpulse

Banned
geordiemp said:
Thats from March, the difference was BCpack had a form of oodle textures, now Sony have it as well.

So they both do RDO compression. Whats your point exactly other tah cut and pasting infromation before oodle textures ?

They will both compress textures with lamda around 40. Same shit.

Difference now is only Kraken vs Zlib.
Click to expand...

In summary, any gap with XSX had with regards to texture compression is now gone and we're back to square one with PS5 having faster raw read and write and a decompressor which is many times more performant than the XSX counterpart.
 
WhispersintheWind

WhispersintheWind

Member
xacto said:
Look, I am not saying that WhispersintheWind WhispersintheWind is lying or has been lied to; that would mean that I know for a fact that's what happened, and I have no idea if that is the truth or not. But it seems rather strange that in almost every post he writes, conveying "information" it'll always be third hand, or rumours. I mean excuse me, that kind of information we can also get from places like 4chan, Reddit, whatever, you name it.

No, this is not what we're looking for, if you come in here as a vetted insider, you really have to come up with something better than that, otherwise is just conjecture, that we can get ourselves pretty easily.

Also, one more thing, and please don't get this the wrong way, WhispersintheWind WhispersintheWind - this isn't really a personal attack - but why do you almost always refer to HeisenbergFX4 HeisenbergFX4 to confirm what you heard, or simply just trying to get some information out of him? How does this even work, since you're supposed to tell us what YOU heard, be it from third or fourth hand sources? Why do you need HIM to corroborate what YOU heard? Do you have the same sources?

Again, this wasn't a personal attack, this is just something that rubs me, personally, the wrong way regarding the information you provide.
Click to expand...

As I explained in the thread. These 2 people work in Retail procurement and acquisitions for US retailers. They told me some info. I found interesting. I brought to the forum to share and ask mr HeisenbergFX4 HeisenbergFX4 what had he heard. We don’t have the same sources as far as I know. I was just asking for clarity.

I found it odd what they was stating. I also didn’t have facts or figures to back it up. I was also trying open and up front with the forum with this. I know Sony’s PlayStation brand is bigger world wide. They where saying Xbox provide more consoles. I assume now they maybe meant in North America. Though we know Sony has released more PS5 to retailers starting to day.
 
D

Deleted member 775630

Unconfirmed Member
Bo_Hazem said:
They said the same about Halo Infinite, and we know how that went. They said that Halo Infinite has been built from the ground up to take full advantage of XSX. So I've educated myself enough with their lies, and waiting for only solid proofs.
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Yeah mate, fair comparison... I knew you were a fan of Sony, but now you're just acting as one of the extreme ones that hate the other system more than that they love their own
 
PSX

PSX

Member
Quick question I got the PlayStation 5 Starter System Bundle, can I return accessories/games If don't need? at gamestop?
 
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G

Godfavor

Member
BlueXImpulse said:
In summary, any gap with XSX had with regards to texture compression is now gone and we're back to square one with PS5 having faster raw read and write and a decompressor which is many times more performant than the XSX counterpart.
Click to expand...


Not quite sure of how it works but MS said that they have Sample feedback streaming which is a step up from partial textures (that the xbox one x uses) that would effectively load textures bits that are only visible on screen thus saving ram space and texture loading requirements.
 
MistBreeze

MistBreeze

Member
will some of this gen titles get an upgrade for new gen consoles

like

final fantasy 15 or bloodborne

final fantasy 15 in dire need of this

and bloodborne need 60 fps
 
xacto

xacto

Member
Neo Blaster said:
More and more PS games are perceived as premium, just like that comparison about basic cable and HBO made by Geoff Keghley. Sony knows that and is experimenting accordingly. If game sales numbers remain the same as this gen or get even better, it's green light for that price point.
Click to expand...

I think so too, there will be certain games that will command that premium price. And barring waiting for a price drop, that will also happen, meaning we won't have to play said games on day 1, yes, some of us will want to pay top dollar, and have top dollar to pay for it.

It will not be the end of gaming as we know, and I believe that 7 years later, that increase in price was to be somewhat expected. Not desired by us, as consumers, but expected.
 
BlueXImpulse

BlueXImpulse

Banned
Godfavor said:
Not quite sure of how it works but MS said that they have Sample feedback streaming which is a step up from partial textures (that the xbox one x uses) that would effectively load textures bits that are only visible on screen thus saving ram space and texture loading requirements.
Click to expand...

Yes it essentially saves on space by loading only the textures needed for a particular scene. It will help, how much will it help? Remains to be seen. I do know the PS5's I/O is so fast that something like SFS is likely not even needed though. You can load in and load out as soon as the player manages to turn around. It effectively eliminates the need for something like SFS.

What I'm saying is while the PS5 might not need to keep as many things resident in memory 'just in case' because it's so fast, the XSX might very well need to keep more things resident in memory because its I/O isn't as fast. In that case SFS will help with its 'deficiency' in throughput (at least when compared with the PS5).
 
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Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
X-Fighter said:
Yeah mate, fair comparison... I knew you were a fan of Sony, but now you're just acting as one of the extreme ones that hate the other system more than that they love their own
Click to expand...

I mean, I hate Microsoft, not you. Anyway, there are 2 dodgy ways:

1: You either believe that FH4 and Halo being 100% optimized from the ground up for XSX.
2: You don't believe that official statement that it'll be like current gen high end PC's, no raytracing, just a framerates bump.

Act as if you didn't see this post.
 
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Sinthor

Sinthor

Gold Member
chilichote said:
That's the same^^

Getting more performance from a teraflop means that this teraflop is more efficient than other teraflops. And it doesn't really matter whether you're tweaking the pipeline or the cache, what matters is the result.
Click to expand...

I really don't get what the mystery is for people at this point. All along we've been hearing 'rumors' from devs that both systems basically ran neck and neck. Now we're seeing titles that are 4k60fps on both platforms and those are THIRD PARTY games where you would expect to see more of a difference as they won't put in some big amount of extra effort to equalize things if it's not worthwhile for them. These systems are even by the numbers the closest they've ever been. So big surprise! :)
 
geordiemp

geordiemp

Member
Godfavor said:
Not quite sure of how it works but MS said that they have Sample feedback streaming which is a step up from partial textures (that the xbox one x uses) that would effectively load textures bits that are only visible on screen thus saving ram space and texture loading requirements.
Click to expand...

If you listen to the SFS tech presentation on youtube it also has a performance cost.

And what everyojne keeps forgetting is there is hardware to blend in that texture when it arrives LATE, its a smoother pop in, but its still pop in.

Was the halo gameplay after the map screen using SFS, as it still looked like pop in to me.
 
xacto

xacto

Member
SSfox said:
Maybe it's some kind of a PS5 one time/first time boot screen thing?

They also said in an interview before they wanted everything to be instantaneous even when you boot console.
Click to expand...

That would be interesting to see, but we will still probably have the epilepsy warning, and some Playstation splash screen of sorts. But definitely not as long as the PS4 has it for now.
 
Sinthor

Sinthor

Gold Member
LucidFlux said:
This is by far the best GodFall has looked, but I'm still going to wait for reviews to see exactly how much content there is in this game.
Click to expand...

Yeah...I went a little crazy with the pre-orders. Had a decent amount of credit at GameStop and used all of that as well. Demons Souls, GodFall, Spiderman, Cyberpunk, Assassins Creed- actually I think I got everything that will be available except for that Gods & Monsters game. Yikes! Well, they're definitely making their money off of ME to start this generation!
 
WhispersintheWind

WhispersintheWind

Member
LucidFlux said:
This is by far the best GodFall has looked, but I'm still going to wait for reviews to see exactly how much content there is in this game.
Click to expand...
I’m interested in both Godfall and Deathloop. But I haven’t seen enough to convince me to buy them. I know I’m getting Spider-Man Miles Ultimate Edition at Launch for My PS5. I’m still waiting to see if Accent is going to be a Xbox Series X launch title.
 
geordiemp

geordiemp

Member
Sinthor said:
Yeah...I went a little crazy with the pre-orders. Had a decent amount of credit at GameStop and used all of that as well. Demons Souls, GodFall, Spiderman, Cyberpunk, Assassins Creed- actually I think I got everything that will be available except for that Gods & Monsters game. Yikes! Well, they're definitely making their money off of ME to start this generation!
Click to expand...

I just got 2 ps5 today for me and Son and the experience has left me drained. I dont think I can handle another online shopping experience for at least a week, I need to recover,
 
xacto

xacto

Member
Sinthor said:
Yeah...I went a little crazy with the pre-orders. Had a decent amount of credit at GameStop and used all of that as well. Demons Souls, GodFall, Spiderman, Cyberpunk, Assassins Creed- actually I think I got everything that will be available except for that Gods & Monsters game. Yikes! Well, they're definitely making their money off of ME to start this generation!
Click to expand...

Say good bye to your social life, mate 😂
 
G

Godfavor

Member
BlueXImpulse said:
Yes it essentially saves on space by loading only the textures needed for a particular scene. It will help, how much will it help? Remains to be seen. I do know the PS5's I/O is so fast that something like SFS is likely not even needed though. You can load in and load out as soon as the player manages to turn around. It effectively eliminates the need for something like SFS.

What I'm saying is while the PS5 might not need to keep as many things resident in memory 'just in case' because it's so fast, the XSX might very well need to keep more things resident in memory because its I/O isn't as fast. In that case SFS will help with its 'deficiency' in throughput (at least when compared with the PS5).
Click to expand...

That's what I am thinking as well. It seems that MS developed this in a sense to avoid whole textures from loading that they might not be used.

That's a more limiting factor because it can compress only texture data (which is like 70% of the whole game ram), but the good thing is that this is done before streaming data to the SSD.

It remains to be seen how it can be implemented though. Since I think that it is a little more complicated than having a faster I/O
 
Sinthor

Sinthor

Gold Member
Zoro7 said:
Godfall hasn't interested me. Especially at the prices we are paying for next gen games.
Click to expand...

Eh....$10. I mean, a few years ago I was paying almost $4.00/gallon for gas... Prices go up. Hell, $60 per game was fairly high. The GOOD thing is that we'll still have the used game market for budget purposes, plus I've been encouraged to see the kinds of sales we've been getting digitally on PSN as well. I think the Witcher 3 Ultimate was $14.99 in the last sale. That's a helluva a deal!

 
Shmunter

Shmunter

Member
Godfavor said:
That's what I am thinking as well. It seems that MS developed this in a sense to avoid whole textures from loading that they might not be used.

That's a more limiting factor because it can compress only texture data (which is like 70% of the whole game ram), but the good thing is that this is done before streaming data to the SSD.

It remains to be seen how it can be implemented though. Since I think that it is a little more complicated than having a faster I/O
Click to expand...
I bet you a fiddy that the cpu is doing all the work. Especially if it’s coming to pc, unless it’s not?!?
 
geordiemp

geordiemp

Member
TheGreatWhiteShark said:
oh "we" do know, DF did some testing with pc hardware months ago.
its just "we" don't want to acknowledge



Yo Jose, Ima let you finish and all, but in no way possible you can do my deep, sexy voice :messenger_sunglasses:
Click to expand...

So DF got 2 RDNA1 GPUs on PC, which dont give any performance above 1.9 Ghz due to teh node and RDNA1 design, overclocked them and observed little to no difference. Geniuses.

We are not that stupid.

We do acknowledge good information, and we do laugh at stupid tests on a pC.

So when the games come out and we see next gen performance with ray tracing, what will be the differences ?

Please come back and eat crow when its much less than 18 %.
 
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