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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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MasterCornholio

MasterCornholio

Member
VargasPaPuM said:

Microsoft’s New Xbox Series X Compression Tech Might Solve Next-Gen Storage Woes | ExtremeTech

Storage capacities aren't increasing nearly as much as game sizes are with this generation of consoles. Microsoft has ideas for ...
www.extremetech.com www.extremetech.com

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VargasPaPuM said:
superiority will show in the DF comparisons 😉
Click to expand...

Microsoft having the better I/O?

Doesn't seem that way based off what we know about the two systems. The GPU will give the XSX some advantages though.
 
J

jamwest24

Member
MasterCornholio said:
Microsoft having the better I/O?

Doesn't seem that way based off what we know about the two systems. The GPU will give the XSX some advantages though.
Click to expand...

I’m so tired of all this talk about their texture tech.. Just SHOW IT OFF if it’s that good.. Otherwise you sound like the guy who has a source that just says “Trust me bro!!” 😂 And if Halo was it.. it’s gonna be a looooong gen for them. Heck.. just show a real game actually running on Series X besides a last gen tweaked Gears 5.
 
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MasterCornholio

MasterCornholio

Member
jamwest24 said:
I’m so tired of all this talk about their texture tech.. Just SHOW IT OFF if it’s that good.. Otherwise you sound like the guy who has a source that just says “Trust me bro!!” 😂 And if Halo was it.. it’s gonna be a looooong gen for them.
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They can definitely stop showing their I/O off with BC titles. It would be more helpful to demonstrate it with actual XSX games.
 
Bojanglez

Bojanglez

The Amiga Brotherhood
Moridianae said:
Very detailed interpretation and speculation there regarding PS Legacy BC(as I call it). I wish it would happen, but it seems that's not in the cards. I posit some counters:

1.) The PlayStation library holds some of the most beloved games of all time across these generations. If the PS5 did indeed have the ability to do this, why would they hold back such a megaton? It doesn't make sense this late in the game.

2.) Monetization via digital is of paramount importance this generation. Both sides are making the strides towards an increasingly all-digital future.

Consoles past this generation most likely will not possess physical drives. Sony would most likely go with the monetization of a fully loaded PS Now to drive more revenue with a legacy library across PS1-3. I don't know if that theyd be able to read games as well.

3.) Emulation of PS1 and PS2 are probably stupidly easy to do. PS3 seems to be an entirely different beast, though RPCS3 has shown it to be more than capable, especially of the most recent update.
Click to expand...
Also if it did somehow allow via disc, imagine buying a digital only edition having not been told that you could use your old PS3, 2 and 1 discs on the other version 🤦‍♂️

That's the position I'd be in. I have an extensive PS3 and before disc collection but went all digital for PS4, so in the absence of any messaging around disc based backwards compat for PS3 and before, I've bought the digital edition.
 
T

Three Jackdaws

Unconfirmed Member
Imtjnotu

Imtjnotu

Member
DeepEnigma said:
LIES!
Click to expand...
No update. Still stuck on 2.0b.

Mean while I'm at 2.1 slaying graphics and full VRR with alm and HDR and God rays

zjR.gif
 
sircaw

sircaw

Banned
LED Guy? said:
OK I got banned for 2 weeks for saying this, I hope not this time...here goes nothing...

I hate the way Microsoft is going with this Game Pass, xCloud stuff and NOW monopolizing the market like buying studios left and right because they know they can’t build studios with the right talents, this is something I have feared personally, they’ve ruined a lot of studios back in the days (I was 5 years old when they acquired RARE ☺❤)and cancelled a lot of games like Scalebound, Fable Legends and ruined a game that I thought would the biggest potential in any game, ever!

And that is Crackdown 3, fucking look at the way this game was handled, I wanted Microsoft to build this game with care like how Rockstar Games built RDR 2, like how Naughty Dog built TLOU 2 & Uncharted 4, like how CD Projekt RED is building Cyberpunk 2077 which looks to be what I imagined how a Crackdown game with its fullest potential would look & feel like.

I just don’t understand why they can’t deliver huge games with the most care and budget behind them, they’re the biggest fucking company that can make games and they are a platform holder, but instead resort to making these smaller agile games just to sustain Game Pass, God how much I hate Game Pass.
Click to expand...

At the end of the day it boils down to this.

Sony is a Michelin star restaurant, they serve the best tasting food from the best-sourced ingredients all around the world, created by the best chefs, they believe in quality over quantity. They make a lot of money.

Microsoft is the Macdonalds of the world, they have alof of inferior products but they serve them cheaply and fast, They have many greasy spoon chefs, They don't care where they source them from. They make a lot of money.

Both work,

if you don't like Microsoft, easy just forget about them, Sony has you covered. enjoy your steak meal.
If you don't like Sony, easy just forget about them Microsoft has you covered. Enjoy your chicken nuggets.

At the end of the day, no matter who you are, you have your very own system to look forward too, just play the games dude and stop worrying.
 
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Neo Blaster

Neo Blaster

Member
DeepEnigma said:
Nah, just not interested in OLED ... yet.

Don't skimp me with that 40GBs jank LG, we all know the full 48 is coming next year in their sets after the tech site backlash, lol.
Click to expand...
Exactly how PS5 would use those additional 8Gbps? Not arguing, just want to know.
 
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D

Deleted member 775630

Unconfirmed Member
sircaw said:
At the end of the day it boils down to this.

Sony is a Michelin star restaurant, they serve the best tasting food from the best-sourced ingredients all around the world, created by the best chefs, they believe in quality over quantity. They make a lot of money.

Microsoft is the Macdonalds of the world, they have alof of inferior products but they serve them cheaply and fast, They have many greasy spoon chefs, They don't care where they source them from. They make a lot of money.

Both work,

if you don't like Microsoft, easy just forget about them, Sony has you covered. enjoy your steak meal.
If you don't like Sony, easy just forget about them Microsoft has you covered. Enjoy your chicken nuggets.

At the end of the day, no matter who you are you have your very own system to look forward too, just play the games dude and stop worrying.
Click to expand...
What shitty Michelin star restaurants do you go to that you just get a steak?
 
LiquidRex

LiquidRex

Member
Shmunter said:
While the odds are against it, the relatively small 18% difference can actually be more than made up for through cache performance and better optimised sdk/api

Both factors we dont know enough about atm.
Click to expand...
But wouldn't a Teardown resolve this once and for all... We still don't know how much of the PS5 architecture has the potential of being RDNA 3, and if this effects the CU's compare to XSX... From what I understand the RT is handled differently on the PS5 compared to the XSX 🤔
 
Dave_at_Home

Dave_at_Home

Member
geordiemp said:
So DF got 2 RDNA1 GPUs on PC, which dont give any performance above 1.9 Ghz due to teh node and RDNA1 design, overclocked them and observed little to no difference. Geniuses.

We are not that stupid.

We do acknowledge good information, and we do laugh at stupid tests on a pC.

So when the games come out and we see next gen performance with ray tracing, what will be the differences ?

Please come back and eat crow when its much less than 18 %.
Click to expand...
I really do wonder about just how much of a difference we're gonna see. It seems purely down to Digital Foundry comparison at this point. How much of an impact will the cache scrubbers have? At the end of the day, I do expect Series X GPU to have a slight performance advantage. I/O is a whole other story.

In the meantime, still no PS5 pre-order. :lollipop_steam_nose: "lollipop_disappointed:
 
Sinthor

Sinthor

Gold Member
Okamiden said:
Are you aware that there is PC version of PS Store where you can buy games for any platform?
Click to expand...

Oh, so you were talking about the PC store? I hadn't looked there to see if PS5 titles were available. But yes...lol I'm aware of it. I thought they meant going thru the app store on the PS4.
 
LucidFlux

LucidFlux

Member
Neo Blaster said:
Exactly how PS5 would use those additional 8Gbps? Not arguing, just want to know.
Click to expand...

What a lot of folks don't realize is the extra 8Gbps isn't even an issue if the display itself is limited to 4K@120Hz 4:4:4 RGB 10 bit w/HDR which to fully saturate requires exactly 40Gbps iirc. You would need to be looking at content that's 4k/120 4:4:4 RGB 12bit or greater to need the full 48Gbps.
 
danielJackson

danielJackson

Banned
Dave_at_Home said:
They use LG panels. What's really interesting though is when Samsung Display starts selling QD-OLED to Sony. We may start seeing those panels late next year.
Click to expand...

Technically it is not "LG" panels either use (Sony/LG), it is company named lg display (owned by lg&philips) which sells panels to sony / lg electronics(that makes displays).

So they kind of are LG, but correct term could be lg/Philips panels.

Sony oled product are high quality and other parts of the TV make the small differences vs TVs with same panel.
 
Neo Blaster

Neo Blaster

Member
LucidFlux said:
What a lot of folks don't realize is the extra 8Gbps isn't even an issue if the display itself is limited to 4K@120Hz 4:4:4 RGB 10 bit w/HDR which to fully saturate requires exactly 40Gbps iirc. You would need to be looking at content that's 4k/120 4:4:4 RGB 12bit or greater to need the full 48Gbps.
Click to expand...
PS5 and XSX both have 40Gbps output, haven't they? Looks like you'd need a Nvidia RTX 3000 card to output 48Gbps.
 
DeepEnigma

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
LucidFlux said:
What a lot of folks don't realize is the extra 8Gbps isn't even an issue if the display itself is limited to 4K@120Hz 4:4:4 RGB 10 bit w/HDR which to fully saturate requires exactly 40Gbps iirc. You would need to be looking at content that's 4k/120 4:4:4 RGB 12bit or greater to need the full 48Gbps.
Click to expand...

Yep, which is why the fluff piece about 12bit color for the XSX a couple weeks back gave me a chuckle. The console itself doesn't even use the full 2.1 spec, it's 40GBs 2.1 port last time I checked (?). Not to mention there are no 12bit panels, yet.

Neo Blaster said:
PS5 and XSX both have 40Gbps output, haven't they? Looks like you'd need a Nvidia RTX 3000 card to output 48Gbps.
Click to expand...

Nobody knows on the PS5 (last time I looked), but since their TV they are hocking to be the "PS5 TV" when it launches has the full 2.1 and the PS5 has WiFi 6, I would assume it's a full 2.1 spec as well. They seem to be future proofing it a bit, but I think we have to wait for the teardown.
 
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LucidFlux

LucidFlux

Member
Neo Blaster said:
PS5 and XSX both have 40Gbps output, haven't they? Looks like you'd need a Nvidia RTX 3000 card to output 48Gbps.
Click to expand...

But even then, you would need to be outputting content in 4k/120 4:4:4 with HDR but most importantly at 12 Bits to a 12 Bit display which afaik doesn't exist as a mass produced product. The real bonuses of the full HDMI 2.1 spec isn't necessarily the extra bandwidth but the inclusion of VRR and eARC.
 
LucidFlux

LucidFlux

Member
DeepEnigma said:
Yep, which is why the fluff piece about 12bit color for the XSX a couple weeks back gave me a chuckle. The console itself doesn't even use the full 2.1 spec, it's 40GBs 2.1 port last time I checked (?). Not to mention there are no 12bit panels, yet.



Nobody knows on the PS5 (last time I looked), but since their TV they are hocking to be the "PS5 TV" when it launches has the full 2.1 and the PS5 has WiFi 6, I would assume it's a full 2.1 spec as well. They seem to be future proofing it a bit, but I think we have to wait for the teardown.
Click to expand...

Exactly! Even then there's only so much future proofing 48Gbps accomplishes when the next step up from 4k 120 / 8k60 would be a panel at 4k240 or 8k120 which would require 120+ Gbps of bandwidth.
 
geordiemp

geordiemp

Member
Dave_at_Home said:
I really do wonder about just how much of a difference we're gonna see. It seems purely down to Digital Foundry comparison at this point. How much of an impact will the cache scrubbers have? At the end of the day, I do expect Series X GPU to have a slight performance advantage. I/O is a whole other story.

In the meantime, still no PS5 pre-order. :lollipop_steam_nose: "lollipop_disappointed:
Click to expand...

Not that much difference as some expect I would say, but lets see.

Also I snagged one today and one for my son, hard work.
 
Bryank75

Bryank75

Banned
GAFfe machine said:
In light of media reports about Jim Ryan saying PS5 is not backwards compatible with PS1, 2 and 3, HipHopGamer’s doubling down didn’t make sense to me initially; but after pondering over the contradiction and giving the spec sheets of PS4/pro and PS5 another glance over to see what was different about their optical drives, something struck me as peculiar. Look at the optical drives for each system...

PS4/pro
Optical Drive:
- BD x6 CAV
- DVD x8 CAV (read only)

PS5
Optical Drive:
- Ultra HD Blu-ray (66G/100G) ~10xCAV
- BD-ROM (25G/50G) ~8x CAV
- BD-R/RE (25G/50G) ~8x CAV
- DVD ~3.2x CLV

Doesn’t it seem odd to you that SIE would replace PS4/pro's faster DVD 8x CAV mode with a much slower DVD ~3.2x CLV mode?...

It seems odd to me because PS1 reads CDs at 2x speed in CLV mode only. And on top of that, according to some very old posts by two devs (inpHilltr8r and Falafada (the latter is said to be an SCE dev)) on another forum, PS2 reads DVDs at 2x speed in CLV mode (in CAV mode PS2 reads DVDs at 4x speed). Here's some of what they had to say about PS2’s drive...

(note: If you care to read the threads in full, search the following: ‘PS3 vs 360 Drive Speed Question’, the first result that pops up should be from Beyond3D. If you only care to read the dev posts, jump to pg.4)…

"The PS2 drive can operate in either CAV or CLV mode. CAV is faster, but less stable, and only works on one layer of a dual layer disc. We ran the drive in CLV mode, and I don't want to revisit the amount of time I spent laying out the 8GB of data we crammed onto the disc." -- inpHilltr8r

"From what I remember CLV defaults to minimum CAV speed, meaning you get 2xDVD across the whole disc, instead of only inner layer." -- Falafada

And there’s more. What's with the addition of a BD-R/RE ~8x CAV mode for PS5? This also seems odd to me because in the same forum thread a post was made (on pg. 5) by a third dev who in reply to a forum-goer's assumption that PS3's BD drive was CLV, said...

"Nope, we have an 8x BD-R/RE drive that's P-CAV..." -- archie4oz

As I’ve come to understand, P-CAV is a derivative of CAV that can run in both CLV and CAV modes. The drive spins the disc in CAV mode when reading (or writing) near the inner part of the disc, then switches to CLV mode for the outer part of the disc.

On the surface, it appears PS5's optical drive has modes to read PS1, 2 and 3 discs. For me, this lends credence to HHG’s claim. Now here’s the conundrum: HHG said PS5 is backwards compatible with PS1, 2 and 3; Ryan said it isn’t… or so the media says…

I interpreted Ryan’s words differently. Before I get into them, here’s the half-decent machine translation of the Q&A I read…

-- In the story, I was surprised that PS4 titles are 99% compatible. By the way, is it compatible with PS1, PS2, and PS3 titles? -- Famitsu
Ryan We have been building devices with a focus on PS5-specific engineering. Among them, PS4 already has 100 million players, so I thought that I would like to play PS4 titles on PS5 as well, so I introduced PS4 compatibility. While achieving that, we focused on incorporating high-speed SSDs and the new controller "DualSense" in parallel. So, unfortunately, compatibility with them has not been achieved. -- Jim Ryan

My interpretation of Ryan: PS4 compatibility is a PS5-specific ”device”. The high-speed SSD and DualSense are also PS5-specific devices; so unfortunately, PS1, 2 and 3 titles will not be compatible with them (the high-speed SSD and DualSense).

If my interpretation is correct, then HHG will have been proven right about PS1, 2 and 3 backwards compatibility for PS5 working in conjunction with PS Now, and Jim Ryan will have maintained the element of surprise. In any event, we’ll find Soon’y enough…

“we are cloud-gaming pioneers, and our vision should become clear as we head toward launch” -- Mark Cerny
Click to expand...
Could be just for reading DVD films...
 
kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
DeepEnigma said:
Yep, which is why the fluff piece about 12bit color for the XSX a couple weeks back gave me a chuckle. The console itself doesn't even use the full 2.1 spec, it's 40GBs 2.1 port last time I checked (?). Not to mention there are no 12bit panels, yet.



Nobody knows on the PS5 (last time I looked), but since their TV they are hocking to be the "PS5 TV" when it launches has the full 2.1 and the PS5 has WiFi 6, I would assume it's a full 2.1 spec as well. They seem to be future proofing it a bit, but I think we have to wait for the teardown.
Click to expand...
Is 40 Gbps HDMI 2.1 capable of HDR10 with 10 bit color 4:4:4 at 4K 120 Hz?

Is 48 Gbps just also capable of that but with 12 bit color?
 
LED Guy?

LED Guy?

Banned
sircaw said:
At the end of the day it boils down to this.

Sony is a Michelin star restaurant, they serve the best tasting food from the best-sourced ingredients all around the world, created by the best chefs, they believe in quality over quantity. They make a lot of money.

Microsoft is the Macdonalds of the world, they have alof of inferior products but they serve them cheaply and fast, They have many greasy spoon chefs, They don't care where they source them from. They make a lot of money.

Both work,

if you don't like Microsoft, easy just forget about them, Sony has you covered. enjoy your steak meal.
If you don't like Sony, easy just forget about them Microsoft has you covered. Enjoy your chicken nuggets.

At the end of the day, no matter who you are, you have your very own system to look forward too, just play the games dude and stop worrying.
Click to expand...
Yeah I agree a 100%

You really explained it in a very helpful and informative way, (I like McDonald’s by the way 😅), those McChickens sometimes they’re so tasty!! ❤❤❤
 
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sircaw

sircaw

Banned
LED Guy? said:
Yeah I agree a 100%

You really explained it in a very helpful and informative way, (I like McDonald’s by the way 😅), those McChickens sometimes they’re so tasty!! ❤❤❤
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with having a MacDonalds now and again, i do like there choc milkshakes a lot too.
Plus a sausage and egg McMuffin does me for a morning of hard graft.

In the end, whatever you like, it's your choice, let no one tell you differently.

Even me "lollipop_disappointed:
 
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