cw_sasuke said:We got it - Nintendo is Evil and the AppStore is a goldmine for everyone.
Tobor used to be a huge Wii fanboy. But the console's life cycle and games...they CHANGED HIM.
-Policecop
cw_sasuke said:We got it - Nintendo is Evil and the AppStore is a goldmine for everyone.
Looks, the games that are shit quality don't sell. A lot on the App Store doesn't sell. Things that don't sell aren't the future of the market, because...they don't sell. Fearing the App store because of some garbage 99 cent game that sold 50 copies and got no exposure anywhere is silly. Hell, I couldn't name one for you, because I don't care about them.AceBandage said:We were talking the "future of the industry".
If people truly believe that the AppStore market is the future, then no thanks.
'Pure game creation' would also be nice with the new interfaces like the PS Move, 3DS and Kinect.AceBandage said:And this is why we have the PC.
There's no entry fee, no middle man. Just pure game creation.
Cmagus said:They are just worried cause now the iphone brings them competition that they never had before.
Lyphen said:Looks, the games that are shit quality don't sell. A lot on the App Store doesn't sell. Things that don't sell aren't the future of the market, because...they don't sell. Fearing the App store because of some garbage 99 cent game that sold 50 copies and got no exposure anywhere is silly. Hell, I couldn't name one for you, because I don't care about them.
The Indie Store has garbage too. SilverDollarGames isn't the future of the market. But would I disable the entire XNA App Hub just so they wouldn't make games? No. I'd be missing out on the Arkedo series, Zeboyd's games, Epic Dungeon and a lot of other great games that, even if some didn't meet sales hopes, I had a lot of fun playing. At less than three dollars.
Htown said:okay so you people have to make up your minds.
either you have to want Nintendo to be MORE difficult about letting games get on the service ("LOL every single thing on WiiWare is shit Nintendo seal my ass"), or you want them to be LESS difficult about letting games get on the service ("WTF Nintendo won't let me make a game from my parents' basement fucking indie haters"), but you can't do both.
boris feinbrand said:Their business model isn't really compatible with them so why anyone would actually bother is beyond me. It's not like Garage or Hobby programers have no available venues to experiment around.
why is your sig different than your user namePoliceCop said:Tobor used to be a huge Wii fanboy. But the console's life cycle and games...they CHANGED HIM.
-Policecop
the lowest price on WiiWare is $5, that's hardly a huge difference from the app store. Anyway, the discussion was about who can be an approved developer, what that takes, not what price the software is allowed to be after it's done. These are independent from each other.GeekyDad said:Nintendo are, in this particular matter, only concerned about the public's perception of dollar value. I'm sure Nintendo is still more than willing to allow floods of shit software on their platforms, so long as the prices don't get low enough to encourage consumer expectations of low-priced software.
It is better for Nintendo, and people with Nintendo platforms. Think about it. You will have more games at different prices. Some of the games will be good others bad, but let the consumers decide that.boris feinbrand said:So why would people want Nintendo to do get involved with Indie developers? It's not like Indies need them obviously.
Boney said:why is your sig different than your user name
That's been my position the whole time. The difference is, I don't believe Nintendo's business model is tenable long term.boris feinbrand said:I really think you misunderstood his quote. It's not about protecting quality of games but quality of business. That's what this is ultimately about.
To Nintendos business model, wich was ironically founded as a response to a similar rush of low entry games almost crashed the industry, is now under attack by a new wave of low level entry games that devalue the business as a whole.
I have nothing against the appstore. It's a great venue for small or upcoming developers to test the water or simply experiment. The thing I see though is that Nintendo, for better or worse is absolutely the wrong partner for such developers.
Their business model isn't really compatible with them so why anyone would actually bother is beyond me. It's not like Garage or Hobby programers have no available venues to experiment around.
PC, Appstore, Android plattforms, hell even XNA are by nature a better suited environment.
Is Nintendo missing out on a potential market? I believe they are, but from a investment-gain perspective, the real gains are so low, that it isn't really feasible for Nintendo to invest in this market.
AceBandage said:He's an inconsistent gimmick account.
Very true. 2006 was a long, long time ago. Kind of crazy how different gaming has become in just that period of time.PoliceCop said:Tobor used to be a huge Wii fanboy. But the console's life cycle and games...they CHANGED HIM.
-Policecop
AceBandage said:Yeah, Nintendo sure is shaking in its boots over games that will eventually get ported to their own download store...
Nintendo-4Life said:What's the difference between garage developers and indie developers?
Tobor said:Very true. 2006 was a long, long time ago. Kind of crazy how different gaming has become in just that period of time.
Tobor said:That's been my position the whole time. The difference is, I don't believe Nintendo's business model is tenable long term.
A few good games.... Man, I miss the lol smiley.Cmagus said:I believe this when I see it Nintendo's support for its download service are lackluster in my opinion.If you honestly think games like Steel Diver are worth 50.00 then your crazy.It's easy for Nintendo to go on about charging those types of prices cause it's Nintendo and they sell well.Others however at that price don't 90% of games now on DS end up in bargain bin within weeks.3DS will be the same as the DS a few good titles and the rest will be garbage shovelware.
Cmagus said:I believe this when I see it Nintendo's support for its download service are lackluster in my opinion.If you honestly think games like Steel Diver are worth 50.00 then your crazy.It's easy for Nintendo to go on about charging those types of prices cause it's Nintendo and they sell well.Others however at that price don't 90% of games now on DS end up in bargain bin within weeks.3DS will be the same as the DS a few good titles and the rest will be garbage shovelware.
I don't see a problem with developers charging .99 - 2.99 for their games why not.Sure Nintendo needs to make money they are a company and they have people they need to impress. 2-3 guys making a game for 1.99 that sells well and nets them decent profit is just as fine and they are allowed to be creative, no one to answer and they can get titles out faster.
Iphone is very much a threat to Nintendo 3DS specially with it's install base.I also believe the NGP could very well pose a big threat as well if it comes in around 250.00.
farnham said:thats why you have the gaming press that picks out the good games
also its not like the wii or the 3ds has a stellar lineup right now
I'm sorry, but saying that DS has only 'a few' good titles is completely ignorant. Do you mind telling me which game system has significantly more 'good' titles than DS this generation?Cmagus said:3DS will be the same as the DS a few good titles and the rest will be garbage shovelware.
AceBandage said:wat
The DS had pretty much the best lineup of games last generation.
Yes, it had a good share of shovelware, but to say only a few games were good is just plain wrong.
Also, how many of those 2-3 man teams actually net a profit? I can't imagine it's a lot of them. The AppStore is not a hospitable environment for developers that actually want to see money in their pockets.
Are you really implying that DS has as many shovelware as the iphone?Cmagus said:I believe this when I see it Nintendo's support for its download service are lackluster in my opinion.If you honestly think games like Steel Diver are worth 50.00 then your crazy.It's easy for Nintendo to go on about charging those types of prices cause it's Nintendo and they sell well.Others however at that price don't 90% of games now on DS end up in bargain bin within weeks.3DS will be the same as the DS a few good titles and the rest will be garbage shovelware.
I don't see a problem with developers charging .99 - 2.99 for their games why not.Sure Nintendo needs to make money they are a company and they have people they need to impress. 2-3 guys making a game for 1.99 that sells well and nets them decent profit is just as fine and they are allowed to be creative, no one to answer and they can get titles out faster.
Iphone is very much a threat to Nintendo 3DS specially with it's install base.I also believe the NGP could very well pose a big threat as well if it comes in around 250.00.
BroHuffman said:So it's like a resume builder for devs?
Took me a little longer to get there, but here I am.PoliceCop said:I was there too, bro. I remember arguing with you when my opinion of the system started to shift, and here we are, comrades in disappointment.
But the games aren't 99cent ......miksar said:I'm sorry, but saying that DS has only 'a few' good titles is completely ignorant. Do you mind telling me which game system has significantly more 'good' titles than DS this generation?
Cmagus said:3DS will be the same as the DS a few good titles and the rest will be garbage shovelware.
http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/statler_waldorf.jpgTobor said:Took me a little longer to get there, but here I am.
AceBandage said:By that token, so is the PC... but it has no entry fee other than having a PC.
So again, why do people choose consoles over the PC for their small budget games?
Kintaro said:Why does Nintendo have to what everyone else is doing?
GeekyDad said:Nintendo are, in this particular matter, only concerned about the public's perception of dollar value.
Lyphen said:Yeah, I can really see why they were attracted to Team Meat and wanted those two guys to develop on their platform now.
Wait, what? Seriously?
I've had more fun with Indie games these past two years than most big releases, Nintendo's included (what little there was).
flyinpiranha said:Oh shit! Now we got PoliceCop all up in this doing some condescendingness.
He's a great cop though, sniffs out all Nintendo threads and then tries to shit on them with doom and gloom. If anything I applaud him for his consistency.
That's not what he said, he was talking of a very specific way of doing a very specific thing... Nintendo did avoid having two analog sticks, and that turned out fine.charlequin said:Why does Nintendo even have to include online play? Or an analog stick? Why allow third-party development at all? Those are just what everyone else is doing, after all! This is a ridiculous argument and you know that.
They have some form of indie development. People are crying because they don't have the exact form Apple does where literally anyone can hop onboard.The reason it makes sense for Nintendo to open up some form of indie development
I'm pretty sure they believe that, and it's what they urged other developers to do in GDC. Do their best, offer software of this quality, and they will stand out from the shovelware that exists in all price ranges, from $1 to $60. Just like their Wii games in a market others consider a lost cause, just like Angry Birds on the Apple Store.believe (as the evidence suggests) that their top games will still be worth $35 or $50 even when cheaper games are available elsewhere.
What nintendo has is not adequate for breakout/startup indie devs, what they have is a setup for smaller already established studios.Alextended said:They have some form of indie development. People are crying because they don't have the exact form Apple does where literally anyone can hop onboard.
Oh come on. An indie store is hardly as important as any of those things. :lolcharlequin said:Why does Nintendo even have to include online play? Or an analog stick? Why allow third-party development at all? Those are just what everyone else is doing, after all! This is a ridiculous argument and you know that.
charlequin said:Why does Nintendo even have to include online play? Or an analog stick? Why allow third-party development at all? Those are just what everyone else is doing, after all! This is a ridiculous argument and you know that.
The reason it makes sense for Nintendo to open up some form of indie development is that, if there's any truth whatsoever to the idea that Nintendo's system is a valuable target for development in and of itself, some people are going to want to develop titles for it -- people will have ideas for 3D-driven games or AR titles or other things that can't be done elsewhere (or maybe can't be done easily elsewhere) and want to bring those to the 3DS.
I mean, if Nintendo had an absolutely pitch-perfect, couldn't-possibly-be-improved software lineup across all their systems, then yes, I'd say "sure, they shouldn't try anything new" -- but they don't. Some form of small, inexpensive content from tiny developers could help serve as one way to flesh out an underdeveloped side of their library -- it doesn't have to be the way MS or Sony or Apple does it, just some acknowledgement that this area of the market exists.
And that's a part of the problem: Nintendo's idea of "perception of dollar value" is foolish and actively self-destructive, and it's led them to more poor decisions (waiting too long on Wii pricedrops, not implementing a Player's Choice line) this generation than good ones. They need to move to a more holistic view of pricing and believe (as the evidence suggests) that their top games will still be worth $35 or $50 even when cheaper games are available elsewhere.
That is not entirely true, various small developers had their first games on WiiWare. I think NyxQuest is Over the Top Games' first title. It really isn't a gigantic barrier to entry. It's just not low enough that even I and other people like me could do it. That's a good thing, imo.Momo said:What nintendo has is not adequate for breakout/startup indie devs, what they have is a setup for smaller already established studios.
Momo said:
rosjos44 said:I see your point about the price point. But why do developers have to drop their price after they make their money back off the title? Why not keep it 49.99 or 59.99? Because we gamers want cheap things ? I do not see Art pieces losing value or becoming cheaper after they have been made 100 years later. I can see dropping the price after a year or two by like 10 dollars but many gamers out their think now "well I will wait until its in the bargin bin or cheap used game". You know what lead to this way of thinking? Individuals perception of value and how they want everything for free.
Sorry but I still think Twilight Princess is worth more than 30 dollars. Its just pathetic that we as consumers believe everything should drop in value so quickly (in the gaming market that is).
rosjos44 said:Plus these garage based developers are making it more difficult for small studios who actually try to make game development a living.
andymcc said:maybe it's just me but this post pretty much reads like this in my head: "you should always buy a title at it's initial MSRP as that is the intended price by the publisher."
that's hilarious.
you're like an iwata talking point.
I edited that out because I'm thinking by garage devs you didnt mean three man named studios like these =PAmir0x said:That's another thing about Garage Developers; 80% of the time they can't stop thinking about how hip they're so the extent of their vision is going back 20 years and making a game with retro sprites and chiptunes. Look at how RETRO I am.
That game looks cool, though. Interesting idea
But like I said, if a game like that comes and demonstrates its quality and vision, a publisher will pick up on it. It's just... if I was Nintendo, I'm not going to sit there trolling websites for a concept 1 out of a million that turns out to be legitimately good. If a Garage Developer has that talent, they will demonstrate it over time.
By which point they will already have established commercial and working relationships with other platform holders/partners and will be less inclined to work with Nintendo.If a Garage Developer has that talent, they will demonstrate it over time
Momo said:I edited that out because I'm thinking by garage devs you didnt mean three man named studios like these =P
Here is another
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm7gEDhrPfk&feature=player_embedded
Veering off point cause I dont consider them to be "garage devs".
By which point they will already have established commercial and working relationships with other platform holders/partners and will be less inclined to work with Nintendo.