Saying the PS4 is "PS1-ing" would be more accurate. Xbox One is definitely far behind but it's not at a PS2 vs. Original Xbox level.
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NPD: Xbox One wins October NPD. Best Selling Console in US 4th Month In a Row
Saying the PS4 is "PS1-ing" would be more accurate. Xbox One is definitely far behind but it's not at a PS2 vs. Original Xbox level.
Nightengale
Member
PS2-ing is right in terms of raw number of sales (kinda) , but that undermines the part where PS2 also had sales lead that makes the rest look like they're eating crumbs instead of just being a distant 2nd/3rd.
Welfare
Member
The PS2 was much much farther ahead of the Xbox. Calling the PS4 lead "like the PS2" is over stating the gap. PS4 has a lead of +20m, or in terms of LTD's, >45m vs <25m 3 years into the generation. PS2 was ahead of the Xbox by over 30m as early as 2002.
It's "PS2ing" in terms of its own sales. Something a lot of people said just wouldn't and couldn't happen.
Nightengale
Member
... That was what I said?
hodayathink
Member
To me, the issue is that you can say the exact same thing about 1080p streaming and Blu-Ray movies, and the majority of people don't seem to care about that. I don't really see a good reason why 4K is/will be any different.
A valid point but the real stumbling block is that many lack the required bandwidth speeds needed to stream 4K content reliably. That is what makes physical 4K media an interesting proposition and why UHD is already outpacing early Blu-Ray sales.
DriftingSpirit
Member
I need to explain why it isn't likely that the X1 will sell the most units in the US every month for the rest of this generation following this November?
I mean, the PS4 has been on top since the start of this generation and it hasn't even been able to do that. Even if we are to assume this indicates a complete role reversal in the US, the idea that the PS4 won't get another month for the rest of this generation is silly.
DigitalScrap
Member
This. I keep saying this (and even have shown articles that state it), but people seem to not want to believe it. UHD is on a faster trajectory than Blu-Ray was at the same point.
Just picked up my Pro today and there were still many at the 2 EBGames I called.
Anecdotal of course, but not normally the case for "new" consoles.
Never paid attention to the Xbox S sales when it launched and maybe it was the same thing?
jeremy1456
Junior Member
I fully expect the Xbox one to lead sales for a good long while on NPD.
jeremy1456
Junior Member
The local GameStop in my town is the biggest in sales nationwide because it's the only one for 100 miles in any direction.
Two pre-orders for the pro.
Yes. I asked.
The bundle deals at the Ebgames I was at were insane, had I not stopped paying for LIVE (I came to the realization that paying for 2 online fees for consoles with mostly the same libraries was stupid...) I was almost tempted to go with it lol.
I'm glad they were able to bounce back a bit
DasPenguin
Member
Are you saying that there will suddenly be a physical media comeback? Yeah, not gonna happen and for the masses it will not be the main selling point. Maybe I'm wrong and Blockbuster will make a comeback.
I think data caps and ISP speeds are a real factor now that slow down digital 4K media options
DigitalScrap
Member
Oh, I don't think it will be a long term continued acceleration of UHD sales, and it won't likely reach Blu-Ray levels ever (in totality). But right now they are selling briskly. Faster than Blu-Ray at this period from launch. The average person simply does not have the internet bandwidth/data capacity (damn data caps) to stream 4K like most of us on forums think. Peopl who buy 4K TVs want to see 4K media. And stores are pushing the X1 S to these buyers because it is the cheapest way to get in.
And... 4K streaming looks great, but it doesn't compare to UHD - I thought my 4K streams were absolutely amazing until I saw physical UHDs playing. I still don't have a player yet myself - but as soon as MS releases a black X1 S, I will be replacing my X1 with one.
Welfare
Member
Completely misread that. Sorry.
LiquidSolid
Member
SMH, what a meltdown.
The "better sales than Blu-Ray at launch" comparisons seem pretty silly to me given that Blu-Ray was competing with another HD standard at the time and, from what I recall, was a bit of a mess at first.
It's a very pointless comparison.
Bitch Pudding
Member
Do you have a source for that? And how early are we talking about. Seriously asking. I wrote an assignment in Marketing back in the day about Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD.
Because, depening on the time frame we talk about, this just seems... odd. The first Blu-Ray players were super expensive. The laser unit for the very first PS3 systems alone cost $1.000. So, yeah, during the first months, they didn't fly of the shelves. Today we have a comparably cheap player with the XBOX One S, but other problems, like very expensive movies, and 4k streaming as substitute.
Besides, and this is what really makes me curious, Sony of all firms should be in the very best position to assess the potential of a 4K Blu-Ray support within a gaming console.
MightyHedgehog
Member
That's the safest bet one could make, but it's not interesting nor does it address the changes that gave us four months of something different happening. Sony has blown its wad on new hardware for probably the rest of this generation with release of its slimmer revision, the Pro, and PSVR. They could introduce more exciting bundles and drop the prices in a year or so, but other than upcoming exclusives or heavy retailer promotions, the horizon looks pretty calm on the Sony side of things.
Sony, like any firm, is capable of misjudging a market. They've got the failed divisions to prove it.
That said, there are so many variables at play, I think it's tough to gauge the trajectory of UHD.
Yes Physical media is losing ground to streaming, but an for extremely large portion of the market, internet infrastructure continues to make 4K streaming implausible. Will people in these places not care for Ultra high-def content?
With regards to Sony, they had a vested interest in the success of blu-ray when the PS3 launched, so they helped ensure its survival by including it in PS3. This time around, they have no real reason to sacrifice their PS4 margins. So perhaps the exclusion of a UHD drive has nothing to do with stagnation of their UHD player business.
breakfuss
Member
When I was picking up my PS4 Pro the other day from Best Buy, it came with a free UHD movie. The salesman wanted to make sure that I knew the console could not play it lol, which is crazy considering the promo. I'm still not entirely convinced its inclusion is that much of a boon to XB1 sales but it's certainly interesting.
Bitch Pudding
Member
Yeah, agreed. I for one was 100% sure at least the Pro would offer 4K Blu-Ray support and it is still hard for me to understand that apparently they weren't able to offer it and keep that $399 price tag
Not because I think 4K BR is the next big thing, but because it opened an opportunity for their competition to come up with a cheap and easy to market unique proposition for their product. Which they did.
DigitalScrap
Member
Wow, that is quite the strange promo. Doesn't make much sense for them to do that - I wonder if someone at Best Buy who put together that promo thought it could play UHDs and no one caught them before it went out? Really odd. Hopefully all the salespeople let buyers know (although I'm guessing most people who know about the Pro will know already).
I have a feeling it really is as simple as them not wanting to eat into the margins on the device. I don't know the cost to produce the PS4 Pro, but adding in a UHD drive probably would have added $15 - $20 extra cost to each one produced (at least in the early runs). I'm betting this really is all it was.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
And UHD is competing again another format as well, an established and popular one, called streaming.
I'm sure Sony COULD have included he drive and kept their price points. I just think Sony is less worried about suffocating MS and more worried about making as much money as they possibly can.
There brand is stronger than ever. And they are capitalizing to the fullest.
Can't blame em really.
Variety: http://variety.com/2016/digital/new...s-numbers-exceed-disc-predecessor-1201804322/
What I found interesting is that while Blu-Ray had to fight HD-DVD in the early goings, UHD is still selling more than the combined totals of Blu-Ray/HD-DVD, all of this with stiff competition from streaming.
As per the article UHD has sold 228,000 discs as of June 24, 2016. In comparison, Blu-Ray sold 57,000 discs. Curiously Blu-Ray media (which UHD factors into) has seen an increase of 3% in comparison to last year.
ghostwritingduck
Member
I ended up buying a PS4 Pro after buying an Xbox One S. I didn't plan on it, but after seeing 4K and HDR, I want everything to have it. I'm pretty sure that someone who owns a 4K television and interested in UHDs will likely have the disposable income to buy both.
I do think the Xbox One S is a much better value than the PS4 slim between backwards compatibility and 4K media.
I do think the Xbox One S is a much better value than the PS4 slim between backwards compatibility and 4K media.
opticalmace
Member
I'm a bit of a sucker for new technology, just picked up my Pro. I was considering the Xbox One S but I think I'm just going to get the Scorpio next year instead.
I do agree that the One S is a good competitor for the Slim, though I'd decide between the two personally just based on exclusive games. It is really really nice that the S has a 4k bluray player though.
a Master Ninja
Member
With current pricing I can't see recommending the Slim to almost anyone. If the Pro was $400 and the Slim was $200-$250 they'd both carve out their own market better.
DreadfulOmen
Member
i enjoy playing games, but i watch more movies. I currently own a ps4, and would of definitely got a pro if it had a uhd drive. I've been seeing so many good deals for the xb1s lately. Right now you can get the BF special edition xb1s, uhd movie, extra game, and extra wired controller for $299. Pretty tempting.
Is that the deal with Sausage Party? Doesn't the 4K UHD Blu Ray version of that still come with a regular Blu-Ray disc?
michaelius
Banned
Well yeah and PS2 had a lot of time on the market advantage before xbox and gamecube got released.
And PS2 actually had 2 competitors (3 if we count Dreamcast)
Agnostic Priest
Member
I agree, doesn't it take up roughly 7gigs an hour to stream UHD? I have unlimited data at home but I know many who have 250-500gig caps.
Sangetsu-II
Member
breakfuss
Member
Yeah, it's Sausage Party and yeah it includes a regular Blue-Ray.
Square2015
Member
Were HW/SW sales released or is that this week?
Welfare
Member
Numbers will come out on the 21st of every month.
Square2015
Member
Thanks
chromatic9
Member
I can see why with the HDR added on top. I feel it's a much better sell than the bluray of 2006.
I'm incredulous to Sony's lack of a UHD player in the Pro. TV stores are selling the Xbox S with 4k TVs. Most people I feel will want to sample some UHD discs even if its just renting, buying a standalone player is not going to happen. Adding in a UHD player is a great value add and gives convenience and options. It gives you a way to showcase the 4k HDR TV you just bought. Whether you hardly use UHD discs is not the point, it's a selling point.
The home cinema enthusiast angle doesn't wash here, no one gives a fuck if they buy a standalone player.
Overall the Xbox One S is very smart looking and appealing system. The Slim is pretty sad looking in comparison. Pro is lacking the UHD player. I'm sure Sony will add UHD in 2017/18.
Imagine being told in 2006 that Microsoft would be leading the way of UHD Bluray and Sony would launch two consoles without it. It'd be like Sega making Mario games and Nintendo making Sonic games in 1992.
It's even worth adding just to take the shine away from the Xbox S.
CosmicQueso
Member
And really, it doesn't matter if anyone actually will use or even want to use the UHD drive.
You know how many 4x4 vehicles are sold that never go off road or engage the 4x4? Much more than half. A vast majority of 4x4 vehicles, that come with all that extra cost, never utilize it. Why?
It's the perceived value of the UHD drive that helps the Xbox One S, not the actual estimated usage by the consumer.
You know how many 4x4 vehicles are sold that never go off road or engage the 4x4? Much more than half. A vast majority of 4x4 vehicles, that come with all that extra cost, never utilize it. Why?
It's the perceived value of the UHD drive that helps the Xbox One S, not the actual estimated usage by the consumer.
This is a poor example, as key benefit of 4x4 is stable driving in poor conditions and free access to mountain roads where 2WD cars need chains.
But I agree, it's better to have a UHD drive than not even if You won't use it at all.
VectorVictor
Member
Finally, someone that gets it.
You hit the nail squarely on the head, good Sir.As for November and December...I don't think a $400 PS4 Pro aimed at customers that already have a PS4 and doesn't have the amenities that the XB1S has at $250 will drive sales to where Sony will pull out November. And even if it does, those sales will go back down in December unless there is some crazy movement on the $399 price point with XMas sales.
cantona222
Member
That is good news. The competition between MS and Sony is getting better.
cantona222
Member
Yeah. That is weird.
DriftingSpirit
Member
And the PS4 Slim? Surely it will get deals and what not.Finally, someone that gets it.
As for November and December...I don't think a $400 PS4 Pro aimed at customers that already have a PS4 and doesn't have the amenities that the XB1S has at $250 will drive sales to where Sony will pull out November. And even if it does, those sales will go back down in December unless there is some crazy movement on the $399 price point with XMas sales.
CosmicQueso
Member
Sure.
In any case, whoever "wins" November still doesn't matter so long as both continue on strong sales trajectories. As long as both boxes remain viable, healthy markets they will continue to get software investment, which is what we should all be pushing for, right?
There are plenty of examples to see why it's higher. The UHD players are substantially cheaper compared to Blu-ray players when they launched and because there were 2 competing formats back then it's easy to see many putting off purchases until the winner was decided (I did).
It's because the comparison is pre-PS3. If these numbers are still in UHDs favor by that time next year it's a different thing, but today the comparison is meaningless.