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[Captain Toad]

1080P

Trying to judge graphics numerically and not by your actual eyes...

 

[Sosokrates]

Btw this demo uses mesh shaders on ALL of the nextgen consoles, once again proving they are all RDNA 2, even if the way it's implemented or feature name is not the same. Show not tell, it's the way it should be.

Im pretty sure UE5 is using its own custom software based shaders.

 

[cragarmi]

Im pretty sure UE5 is using its own custom software based shaders.

Nope they are using the RDNA 2 hardware based mesh shaders, i'l see if I can find the quote!

 

[onQ123]

While it maybe accurate, its not giving the full picture. If people are going bring up the colour rop advantage of the PS5 then they should also say that the XSX ROPs are the more modern RDNA2 design.

I just dont think ROPS are going to be a bottleneck in either system, so its seems pretty pointless bringing it up.

The thing is that the new RBE+ design is not so much of a advantage that it will be equal to having 2X the RBEs

 

[Sosokrates]

Nope they are using the RDNA 2 hardware based mesh shaders, i'l see if I can find the quote!

@32.25
He says
"Primitive shaders and mesh shaders can be faster but are still bottlenecked and not designed for this, can we beat the hardware? Yes, our software is 3x faster"

So hes talking about rasterization.

 

[Sosokrates]

The thing is that the new RBE+ design is not so much of a advantage that it will be equal to having 2X the RBEs

We dont know this.
AMD choose to redesign the RB units, we dont know how they will compare to RDNA1 RBs.

AMD does say here that RB+ does expand VRS in conjunction with rasterization.

 

[Lethal01]

Btw this demo uses mesh shaders on ALL of the nextgen consoles, once again proving they are all RDNA 2, even if the way it's implemented or feature name is not the same. Show not tell, it's the way it should be.

A dev specifically said it uses prim/mesh shaders.
Where have you seen it specifically said it uses mesh shaders on all consoles?

 

[Lysandros]

I wouldn’t be too sure about series x not showing its advantage. The DF clip i saw had the ps5 dip to 20 fps far longer than the xsx during a car crash. Xsx drops for maybe 1-2 seconds, ps5 felt like 3-4.

It's nice to see that you still maintain a slight hope that XSX would one historic day show its true, linear, epic and holy 18% TERAFLOPS (God bless that term) advantage over PS5 so your one note vision about graphics hardware could be warranted. I can only salute such a grand obstination.

 

[cragarmi]

Nope they are using the RDNA 2 hardware based mesh shaders, i'l see if I can find the quote!

I can't find the exact quote; but here is a section of extracted code;

num_meshlets = 10 ... ... local first = 0 local num_workgroups = num_meshlets gh_vk.draw_mesh_tasks(first, num_workgroups)

Note the use of the word meshlet.

A dev specifically said it uses prim/mesh shaders.
Where have you seen it specifically said it uses mesh shaders on all consoles?

So your argument for the PS5 not using mesh shaders is that it performs BETTER without them?

 

[cragarmi]

@32.25
He says
"Primitive shaders and mesh shaders can be faster but are still bottlenecked and not designed for this, can we beat the hardware? Yes, our software is 3x faster"

So hes talking about rasterization.

Thanks, but the quote I'm referring to was about this specific demo, not the old one. A dev specifically referenced they were using hardware primitive and mesh shaders for this demo on console

 

[Riky]

While it maybe accurate, its not giving the full picture. If people are going bring up the colour rop advantage of the PS5 then they should also say that the XSX ROPs are the more modern RDNA2 design.

I just dont think ROPS are going to be a bottleneck in either system, so its seems pretty pointless bringing it up.

From what I've read people seem to think both machines have 64 rops actually active. TMUs, Shading Units and L2 Cache don't get mentioned for some reason.

 

[onQ123]

We dont know this.
AMD choose to redesign the RB units, we dont know how they will compare to RDNA1 RBs.

AMD does say here that RB+ does expand VRS in conjunction with rasterization.

Yes this is where the hardware VRS come from.

 

[Lethal01]

So your argument for the PS5 not using mesh shaders is that it performs BETTER without them?

Sure? Not interested in the console wars, I'm not bothered if they managed to get the same amount of efficiency out or primitive shaders, or managed to get more performance elsewhere. I haven't seen dev saying MEsh shaders vastly outperform primitive shaders.

 

[Lethal01]

Thanks, but the quote I'm referring to was about this specific demo, not the old one. A dev specifically referenced they were using hardware primitive and mesh shaders for this demo on console

 

[cragarmi]

Sure? Not interested in the console wars, I'm not bothered if they managed to get the same amount of efficiency out or primitive shaders, or managed to get more performance elsewhere. I haven't seen dev saying MEsh shaders vastly outperform primitive shaders.

Whereas I will consider it's possible the PS5 code is somehow generating primitives and vertices as 2 seperate processes, a mite quicker than the Xboxes mesh shaders can generate them in the single process, I have my doubts. It's an interesting theory though

 

[Insane Metal]

And here I was thinking this demo would be a good proof that PS5 and Series X are capable of basically the same stuff

Guess some people don't agree with that

 

[Boglin]

We dont know this.
AMD choose to redesign the RB units, we dont know how they will compare to RDNA1 RBs.

AMD does say here that RB+ does expand VRS in conjunction with rasterization.

XSX RB+ = 8 Color ROPS and 16 Depth ROPS
Hardware VRS.

PS5 old RB = 4 Color ROPS and 16 Depth ROPS.

You can see the new RB+ expanded Color rasterization by 2x and added VRS, just like you said. Just looking at the numbers on the surface, which is all we peasants are able to do, the new RB+ in the XSX is better in every way.

So with that established, I'm curious as to why you're discounting the fact that the PS5 has 16 RB units vs the XSX 8 RB+ Units, giving it literally double the amount of Depths ROPs of 256 vs 128.

Outside of conjecture of what will be a bottleneck this generation, do you agree that PS5 is vastly more capable in this one instance relating to rasterization? If no, why?

Maybe I'm misinterpreting things, but it seems like a lot of people think that the extra hardware in the PS5 will just be sitting there, completely useless.

 

[Grechy34]

Lots of technical jargon in this thread.

For the plebs like me though - Damn that tech demo is exciting and something else. It's the first time in many years where I feel there's been a huge breakthrough in the way games look and feel.

 

[SlimySnake]

It's nice to see that you still maintain a slight hope that XSX would one historic day show its true, linear, epic and holy 18% TERAFLOPS (God bless that term) advantage over PS5 so your one note vision about graphics hardware could be warranted. I can only salute such a grand obstination.

I have no such hopes or delusions. Tflops generally produce an advantage over the same family of GPUs, a 6600xt would never outperform a 6700xt and a 6800 would never out perform a 6800xt. The XSX not performing to its fullest tflops potential is a fascinating subject for me since I have always felt the console was designed in a boardroom by execs who wanted 12 tflops instead of by an engineering team. If it turns out that this Xbox tflops advnatage or lack thereof amounts to nothing then we can safely say that the console was not designed well. *shrugs* Either way, this stuff like this is fascinating to me. I have never tried to hide the fact that I am a blue rat, but MS shooting for the moon was kind of admirable to me.

P.S he XSX tflops advantage has shown up in several games this gen. And in games like Metro, Doom and Hitman, it's rather large. This DF footage im referring to doesnt conclusively show anything because Alex ran such a poor test, but I did see the PS5 spend more time at 20 fps than XSX. That test is simply not good enough and it could go either way based on how long the PS5 spent at 20 fps. Thats why I left the door open for any surprises. See below:

They need to do better tests. Preferably without the same cars. And calculate the minimum resolution at the time of the dip to 20 fps.

To borrow from Matrix Reloaded, hope maybe a quintessential human delusion, but I am just basing my opinion on what i saw with my eyes.

 

[Sosokrates]

XSX RB+ = 8 Color ROPS and 16 Depth ROPS
Hardware VRS.

PS5 old RB = 4 Color ROPS and 16 Depth ROPS.

You can see the new RB+ expanded Color rasterization by 2x and added VRS, just like you said. Just looking at the numbers on the surface, which is all we peasants are able to do, the new RB+ in the XSX is better in every way.

So with that established, I'm curious as to why you're discounting the fact that the PS5 has 16 RB units vs the XSX 8 RB+ Units, giving it literally double the amount of Depths ROPs of 256 vs 128.

Outside of conjecture of what will be a bottleneck this generation, do you agree that PS5 is vastly more capable in this one instance relating to rasterization? If no, why?

Maybe I'm misinterpreting things, but it seems like a lot of people think that the extra hardware in the PS5 will just be sitting there, completely useless.

I acknowledge the color rop PS5 advantage here

While it maybe accurate, its not giving the full picture. If people are going bring up the colour rop advantage of the PS5 then they should also say that the XSX ROPs are the more modern RDNA2 design.

I just dont think ROPS are going to be a bottleneck in either system, so its seems pretty pointless bringing it up.

 

[SlimySnake]

This should put to rest any concerns about the PS5 not supporting any mesh shaders. Or Mesh Shaders being inherently better than PS5's Primitive Shaders. I am gonna bookmark this quote in case someone brings up the PS5 not having mesh shader support.

And here I was thinking this demo would be a good proof that PS5 and Series X are capable of basically the same stuff

Guess some people don't agree with that

Yep. This is the first true next gen game/engine and they both seem to be able to do the same thing. The PS5 and XSX trading blows during cross gen comparisons wasnt an aberration. It's pretty much the norm.

 

[Boglin]

I acknowledge the color rop PS5 advantage here

Forgive me, I just wanted clarification because in your post that you quoted you didn't explicitly say it had the advantage. You said the difference was pointless to bring up so I assumed that maybe you thought the extra hardware in the PS5 doesn't do anything.

 

[GHG]

And here I was thinking this demo would be a good proof that PS5 and Series X are capable of basically the same stuff

Guess some people don't agree with that

Some people don't want to accept the reality that's why.

The Series X was supposed to show clear advantages over the PS5, it doesn't.

The Series S was supposed to be identical to the Series X but just with reduced resolutions, it's not.

Eventually people will face the music, if not its going to be a very long generation for them.

 

[Sosokrates]

Forgive me, I just wanted clarification because in your post that you quoted you didn't explicitly say it had the advantage. You said the difference was pointless to bring up so I assumed that maybe you thought the extra hardware in the PS5 doesn't do anything.

Well we still dont know if the RDNA1's RB's will provide an advantage in games.

 

[Boglin]

This should put to rest any concerns about the PS5 not supporting any mesh shaders. Or Mesh Shaders being inherently better than PS5's Primitive Shaders. I am gonna bookmark this quote in case someone brings up the PS5 not having mesh shader support.


Yep. This is the first true next gen game/engine and they both seem to be able to do the same thing. The PS5 and XSX trading blows during cross gen comparisons wasnt an aberration. It's pretty much the norm.

The whole confusion started because Sony didn't call their PS5 Geometry Engine something different.

In the road to PS5, it was clearly stated that the PS5 has a new unit called the Geometry Engine and that the capabilities it brought were brand new.


So I think most people would be left scratching their heads when they find out that the PS4 and the XO each have 2 geometry engines. It's easier to think that old, senile Mark Cerny forgot that the feature is old as shit or he lied rather than entertain the the idea that he might be speaking of something new and different that shares the same name.

If he called it Tier 3 Geometry Engine, then maybe there wouldn't be any confusion.

 

[Boglin]

Well we still dont know if the RDNA1's RB's will provide an advantage in games.

Don't you think it's safer to assume that Sony would have cut the number of depth ROPs if they didn't give any advantage?
This is my problem with discussions around these consoles. For whatever reason, if one box doesn't have a feature that the other box does, then fanboys conclude it must be a worthless feature.

XSX has hardware VRS and PS5 doesn't?
Sony fanboys: "Doesn't matter! Software VRS is just as good!"

PS5 has twice the Depth ROPs and dedicated hardware for its I/O?
Xbox fanboys: "I don't see a benefit of either! DirectStorage is just as good!"

 

[Lysandros]

The whole confusion started because Sony didn't call their PS5 Geometry Engine something different.

In the road to PS5, it was clearly stated that the PS5 has a new unit called the Geometry Engine and that the capabilities it brought were brand new.


So I think most people would be left scratching their heads when they find out that the PS4 and the XO each have 2 geometry engines. It's easier to think that old, senile Mark Cerny forgot that the feature is old as shit or he lied rather than entertain the the idea that he might be speaking of something new and different that shares the same name.

If he called it Tier 3 Geometry Engine, then maybe there wouldn't be any confusion.

I agree. Sony should have taken a page from Microsoft's book and called the I/O complex 'Intergalactic Gamma Burst Accelerator' and Cache Scrubbers 'Claw of The White Wolf', generic terms like the Geometry Engine don't go well with masses and create lots of confusion.

 

[PaintTinJr]

And here I was thinking this demo would be a good proof that PS5 and Series X are capable of basically the same stuff

Guess some people don't agree with that

It largely does show them equal, but I guess we still have an overriding question about how efficiently the Series hardware handles kitbashing (mashing organic nanite geometry together, with big redundant primitive chunks haphazardly hiding each other's chunks like the first and second UE5 demo did) and then still having enough headroom to render world gameplay assets too like Epic show the PS5 could do with the numbers they gave from the first demo.

The Coalition prototyping showcase avoided using kitbashing because - at that time - it wasn't efficient on Series consoles based on the info they gave, and in this demo the geometry type won't be really kitbashed, and I'd guess it isn't kitbashed at all if the geometry is from an architectural CAD drawing or cinema cgi model of Warner Bros' specialist (2mile?) motorway they built and used for the 2nd matrix film - think it was used in the film Speed, too before they completed it - which would mean all the geometry is perfectly placed and depth sorted, unlike the megascanned assets used in the first demo, which Epic gave actual measurements of how super efficient the PS5 was at the nanite pass.

The thing that makes kitbashing an important tool for game development with nanite IMO, is that it could speed up development by allowing artists to chuck megascanned data together in a rapid way to get the right look, and then not care about the millions of occluded triangles hidden below the surface, because nanite and the hardware just handles it all at a similar rendering cost as if it wasn't there, and lumen then only lights the geometry that made it through the nanite pass.

 

[Sosokrates]

Don't you think it's safer to assume that Sony would have cut the number of depth ROPs if they didn't give any advantage?
This is my problem with discussions around these consoles. For whatever reason, if one box doesn't have a feature that the other box does, then fanboys conclude it must be a worthless feature.

XSX has hardware VRS and PS5 doesn't?
Sony fanboys: "Doesn't matter! Software VRS is just as good!"

PS5 has twice the Depth ROPs and dedicated hardware for its I/O?
Xbox fanboys: "I don't see a benefit of either! DirectStorage is just as good!"

The thing is hardware VRS tier 2 has shown to have a benefit And has been advertised by Microsoft and AMD.

Also I never said RDNA1's RB's are worthless, im just stating we dont know if they will provide an advantage in games.

 

[Lethal01]

This should put to rest any concerns about the PS5 not supporting any mesh shaders. Or Mesh Shaders being inherently better than PS5's Primitive Shaders. I am gonna bookmark this quote in case someone brings up the PS5 not having mesh shader support.

It doesn't really tell us either of these things though? it doesn't say whether PS5 has mesh or primitive shaders and doesn't tell us whether Mesh shaders are better than primitive shaders. Just that UE5 uses them.

 

[Sosokrates]

I agree. Sony should have taken a page from Microsoft's book and called the I/O complex 'Intergalactic Gamma Burst Accelerator' and Cache Scrubbers 'Claw of The White Wolf', generic terms like the Geometry Engine don't go well with masses and create lots of confusion.

Well they did call there sound unit "tempest engine"

But I agree a cool name it be better to describe the ssd/io and other features.

For the io/ssd how about "the Nova stream"

 

[Lysandros]

Well they did call there sound unit "tempest engine"

But I agree a cool name it be better to describe the ssd/io and other features.

For the io/ssd how about "the Nova stream"

Not bad but not as good as 'Quantum Wave Disturber'.

 

[SLB1904]

only watch the video now. didn't want to spoil me. damn unreal 5 seems revolutionary

 

[DaGwaphics]

I have no such hopes or delusions. Tflops generally produce an advantage over the same family of GPUs, a 6600xt would never outperform a 6700xt and a 6800 would never out perform a 6800xt. The XSX not performing to its fullest tflops potential is a fascinating subject for me since I have always felt the console was designed in a boardroom by execs who wanted 12 tflops instead of by an engineering team. If it turns out that this Xbox tflops advnatage or lack thereof amounts to nothing then we can safely say that the console was not designed well. *shrugs* Either way, this stuff like this is fascinating to me. I have never tried to hide the fact that I am a blue rat, but MS shooting for the moon was kind of admirable to me.

P.S he XSX tflops advantage has shown up in several games this gen. And in games like Metro, Doom and Hitman, it's rather large. This DF footage im referring to doesnt conclusively show anything because Alex ran such a poor test, but I did see the PS5 spend more time at 20 fps than XSX. That test is simply not good enough and it could go either way based on how long the PS5 spent at 20 fps. Thats why I left the door open for any surprises. See below:


To borrow from Matrix Reloaded, hope maybe a quintessential human delusion, but I am just basing my opinion on what i saw with my eyes.

Why would performance being the same between the units = the Xbox not being built/designed well? If MS had priced the XSX at $600 this might be a legitimate argument but with like models both at $500, I don't see it. XSX uses less power and is more compact also, I'm sure a lot of planning went into the console.

 

[isoRhythm]

I just replayed the open-world demo. If you crash the front of a normal car, the engine will be damaged and the car can't be used. But if it's a sports car you have to crash the back of the car to damage the engine.

 

[SlimySnake]

I just replayed the open-world demo. If you crash the front of a normal car, the engine will be damaged and the car can't be used. But if it's a sports car you have to crash the back of the car to damage the engine.

Also, If it’s a Tesla, it crashes itself.

 

[DaGwaphics]

I just replayed the open-world demo. If you crash the front of a normal car, the engine will be damaged and the car can't be used. But if it's a sports car you have to crash the back of the car to damage the engine.

Biggest issues I would have with these car manufactures is I believe they use silly putty to attach the side mirrors and glass the same thickness as a Xmas ornament for all windows.

You just barely tap a parking meter or mailbox and that rear window is gone.

 

[avin]

Some people don't want to accept the reality that's why.

The Series X was supposed to show clear advantages over the PS5, it doesn't.

The Series S was supposed to be identical to the Series X but just with reduced resolutions, it's not.

Eventually people will face the music, if not its going to be a very long generation for them.

I get what you're saying, but I would question whether we've seen enough to conclude we've figured out the reality, as I think you're implying. I see people in this thread mostly guessing at things.

Eventually we'll know the truth, which will be a good thing. But my experience has been, some people never ever change their minds. They won't "face the music". For some people, reality is just another human construct.

avin

 

[DarkMage619]

Why would performance being the same between the units = the Xbox not being built/designed well? If MS had priced the XSX at $600 this might be a legitimate argument but with like models both at $500, I don't see it. XSX uses less power and is more compact also, I'm sure a lot of planning went into the console.

Also more goes into consoles than just the hardware. The Series consoles do things with backward compatibility, cloud streaming, and features like quick resume than any other platform. The performance delta between the top end systems was never going to be that significant especially when when they came out so close to each other with such similar architectures. It still offers features other platforms lack.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Also more goes into consoles than just the hardware. The Series consoles do things with backward compatibility, cloud streaming, and features like quick resume than any other platform. The performance delta between the top end systems was never going to be that significant especially when when they came out so close to each other with such similar architectures. It still offers features other platforms lack.

Agreed. The strong commitment to backwards compatibility is worth the price of admission as is. QR too. I guess VRR and the ability to output 8k video are bonuses as well.

 

[SlimySnake]

Why would performance being the same between the units = the Xbox not being built/designed well?

I thought that was obvious from the tflops discussion? If the GPU isnt performing equal to its tflops/raw power spec then by definition, it is not well designed. For example, if I buy a 6700xt over a 6600xt, I am expecting to get better performance.

Now the second part of it is that both consoles are the same price unlike those GPUs so it doesnt matter if it is not performing well, and yes, it is OK for two similarly priced consoles to offer similar performance. But that doesn't mean the console or the GPU isnt being held back by whatever bottleneck is causing the XSX to underperform in certain games.

 

[DaGwaphics]

I thought that was obvious from the tflops discussion? If the GPU isnt performing equal to its tflops/raw power spec then by definition, it is not well designed. For example, if I buy a 6700xt over a 6600xt, I am expecting to get better performance.

Now the second part of it is that both consoles are the same price unlike those GPUs so it doesnt matter if it is not performing well, and yes, it is OK for two similarly priced consoles to offer similar performance. But that doesn't mean the console or the GPU isnt being held back by whatever bottleneck is causing the XSX to underperform in certain games.

Where the desktop GPU comparison doesn't holdup in comparison to the consoles is that GPUs generally move linearly across the board on the desktop. Therefore, a GPU higher in the lineup doesn't just have a higher TF count, it has better pixel fill, in most cases more memory, etc. The consoles are a bit different with PS GPU having statistical advantages in some areas. XSX does have its own advantages and it does "win" some head-to-heads, doesn't seem like a requirement that it "wins" them all.

 

[SlimySnake]

Where the desktop GPU comparison doesn't holdup in comparison to the consoles is that GPUs generally move linearly across the board on the desktop. Therefore, a GPU higher in the lineup doesn't just have a higher TF count, it has better pixel fill, in most cases more memory, etc. The consoles are a bit different with PS GPU having statistical advantages in some areas. XSX does have its own advantages and it does "win" some head-to-heads, doesn't seem like a requirement that it "wins" them all.

Wont get an argument for me there. A GPU is more than its tflops. I was the one who made this table after all.

Really ruffled some feathers who thought I was trying to downplay the XSX but it was really mostly about using the same specs MS felt the need to highlight in the hot chips conference. There was a really great poster on era who had essentially predicted this a good 6 months before the specs were announced. So we kinda knew this before the consoles ever came out.

 

[onQ123]

Wont get an argument for me there. A GPU is more than its tflops. I was the one who made this table after all.

Really ruffled some feathers who thought I was trying to downplay the XSX but it was really mostly about using the same specs MS felt the need to highlight in the hot chips conference. There was a really great poster on era who had essentially predicted this a good 6 months before the specs were announced. So we kinda knew this before the consoles ever came out.

If Microsoft don't use just the TFLOPS to compare Xbox Series X GPU to the Xbox One & Xbox One X why is everyone else using it to compare it to PS5 ?

They only claim a 4-6X raw GPU advantage over Xbox One while having 9X TFLOPS advantage , The triangles rate advantage is the part that bring it down to 4 -6X the raw GPU output & PS5 actually has the advantage in triangle & pixel fill rate so why do people keep using the Xbox Series X GPU...

www.neogaf.com

40 CU 9.75 TFLOPs RX 5700 XT vs 64 CU 12.6 TFLOPs RX Vega 64 ( Different architectures but probably the best way to compare PS5 & Xbox SX for now)

Why RX 5700 XT vs RX Vega 64 & not RX 590 vs RX Vega 64? My reason for this is because RX 590 is ROP limited with 32 ROPs while RX 5700 XT has the same 64 ROPs as the RX Vega 64. RX 5700 XT is a newer architecture & benefit from that but at the same time I'm comparing it to the RX Vega 64 &...

www.neogaf.com

Is the Console GPU FLOPs era going the way of the Bit era? I for one welcome our new GB/s marketing overlord

Bits was so important in marketing until we reached 32-bits , for example Sony didn't make a big deal about PS1 being 32-bit even though that was the marking thing that was big in the 80's & 90's but it was probably the CDs that gave PS1 the marketing edge. Atari & Nintendo used 64 in their...

www.neogaf.com

 

[Bogroll]

Not being a wow moment doesn't mean it was known at the time SS was conceived though. I mean the question is the sequence of events here, and one of them had to be first.
Also if say - poster below was correct, that would reaffirm that SS was conceived under assumption of competing with a single SKU.


Lockhart wasn't a rumor nearly as long as the internet thinks - so if DE was a reaction, it would have to be made really early on to be responding to a rumor.

I don't think either responded to any rumour, they just did what they had planned. It would be no surprise about the PS5DE as the market is heading digital but Xbox couldn't release a digital XSX as it would have been even closer to the SS in price as well as creating more confusion in the market. They may bring out a digital XSX in the future when the dust has settled.

 

[sendit]

The thing is hardware VRS tier 2 has shown to have a benefit And has been advertised by Microsoft and AMD.

When will we see these benefits in real games?

 

[adamsapple]

When will we see these benefits in real games?

We already are ....

Gears Tactics and Gears 5 now have full VRS Tier 2 support, big performance gains on PC and Xbox Series X|S

Gears is continuously at the forefront of new gaming technologies.

www.windowscentral.com

Up to 14% improvement in performance with no discernable visual impact.

That not every game maker uses it is a different topic.

 

[DarkMage619]

I don't think either responded to any rumour, they just did what they had planned. It would be no surprise about the PS5DE as the market is heading digital but Xbox couldn't release a digital XSX as it would have been even closer to the SS in price as well as creating more confusion in the market. They may bring out a digital XSX in the future when the dust has settled.

You have to also consider that a digital XSX doesn't really open up potential sales in 3rd world markets, would obviously be more expensive to build and larger and heavier. Couple that with the larger SOC with a lower yield and MS would have sold even fewer consoles than that have now with a XSX/XSS split. Seems to me that a digital XSX would have done the opposite of the desired goals MS has set out for this generation. Perhaps towards the end of the generation they'll make a digital XSX particularly if the costs are down and the SOC is plentiful.

 

[Riky]

When will we see these benefits in real games?

Only one multi platform game uses the technology, Doom Eternal.
The resolution difference at its peak percentage wise is bigger than the difference between the machines at the same framerate.
That proves its claims.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

I acknowledge the color rop PS5 advantage here

The thing is, color ROP hasn't been a bottleneck in graphics in forever. It doesn't matter at all. Honestly can't think of a game where it could be a bottleneck.