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[NXGamer] The Matrix Awakens: Tech-Demo Analysis - PS5 | SX | SS

Riky

$MSFT
The thing is, color ROP hasn't been a bottleneck in graphics in forever. It doesn't matter at all. Honestly can't think of a game where it could be a bottleneck.

Adding more Rops is only useful if you have the memory bandwidth to saturate them, you only have to look at the peak memory bandwidth between the machines to see how this would work, efficiency though right?!
Also people doing these breakdowns never mention TMUs, Shader Engines or size of L2 cache in these comparisons and when you look at the numbers you see why.
 
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Vognerful

Member
I remember the leaked Bestbuy pre-order allocations suggested a 20-80 split in favor of the Physical Edition. PS5 DE was just there to hit the $399 pricepoint. They never really expected to sell a lot of them. The profit or rather loss margin on that console is far higher if we look at the $450 BOM price that was leaked by Bloomberg. Even if you reduce the BOM for $20 for the UHD drive, you are still $30 over the retail price and $50 over the PS4 BOM at launch. Where as, they have a nice $50 buffer for the Physical edition that likely lets them ship this thing at no loss.

Wouldnt be surprised if they reduced the split to 10-90 to further reduce their losses during covid. Everyone is gonna buy every console they make so why make a console that is going to lose them up to $50 more?
This is my opinion as well. I think latest figures show someone like less than 10%. In the NPD of November thread, someone posted a link for Spain sales there was 1 digital edition for every 25 physical units sold.
 
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In select scenarios that are highly likely to just be engine quirks when running all this in real-time.

From the same exact article and comparison tool.

unknown.png


It's just LOD streaming problems. Nothing really to take away from it. Not surprised you're jumping to conclusions though looking for confirmation bias.
Well there it is, Rivet must be devastated 😳
 

PaintTinJr

Member
Adding more Rops is only useful if you have the memory bandwidth to saturate them, you only have to look at the peak memory bandwidth between the machines to see how this would work, efficiency though right?!
Also people doing these breakdowns never mention TMUs, Shader Engines or size of L2 cache in these comparisons and when you look at the numbers you see why.
When you factor in cache scrubbers in one, and not on the other, and how accessing TMUs has constraints on just one, and even possibly how bandwidth to access unified memory is fully unified in one and async unified in the other - and with not a large bandwidth advantage in raw numbers - those other numbers become a harder discussion without developer access to the sdk/specs. Going by the guy that does the accelerated gaming fontLibrary benchmark, there is a real world case where the console that has the superior fillrate demonstrates that, and at this point - barring major optimisation changes in UE5 for the Series X - the nanite pass is much faster and lighter on the PS5 than the Series X under kitbashing - from the info Epic and the Coalition have given.

Over the years, fillrate has been the major advantage/bottleneck for desktop GPUs - where nvidia typically had the high ground - and even with a comment I spotted in the DF matrix thread about Halo Infinite performance on desktop GCN Polaris GPUs lacking, that makes sense; especially with a game that looks to be a forward renderer game - where using CUs for fillrate would be more difficult than say a multi-layered deferred pass renderer.
 
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Snake29

RSI Employee of the Year
Only one multi platform game uses the technology, Doom Eternal.
The resolution difference at its peak percentage wise is bigger than the difference between the machines at the same framerate.
That proves its claims.

Let's wait for non Microsoft devs first. The implementation was added after Xbox acquired Bethesda, and not before.
 

ToTTenTranz

Banned
This should put to rest any concerns about the PS5 not supporting any mesh shaders. Or Mesh Shaders being inherently better than PS5's Primitive Shaders. I am gonna bookmark this quote in case someone brings up the PS5 not having mesh shader support.
FYI, there are quite a bit more interesting tidbits to take from Andrew Lauritzen's posts:

- He's openly criticized the die area that RTX GPUs dedicate to tensor cores, implying a large portion of them go unused even when running DLSS
- Like you stated, he often uses the terms "primitive shaders" and "mesh shaders" interchangeably, again pointing to these being the same hardware feature but given different names on SDKs for different consoles.
- He claims that Sampler Feedback's theoretical benefits are "pretty marginal".
- He's often somewhat critical of this first iteration of DirectX Raytracing (DXR), as it's not flexible enough and this limits usability to games with simple and static geometry. He claims adding more RT hardware for higher performance isn't desirable because BVH building is too expensive and there aren't enough LOD options.

- The assets for this demos will come to the UE5's full release in Q1 2022, though it's not explicit if they'll build a windows binary for the demos they released for the consoles.
 
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DaGwaphics

Member
@ O onQ123 I wouldn't compare TF ratings to the bits of console past just yet. Even if not an end-all be-all number, floating point is still an important metric in terms of how GPUs are used, bits didn't mean anything by the end.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Does it look better than the next-gen game you saw a while back? Or was that also made up, like Klee's game?
lmao. I was just thinking about kleegamefan the other day. That klee game was definitely made up. Still havent seen it two years later.

He did get the double digits tflops prediction right. I remember some posters were really upset at him over that because of the github leaks.
 

Falc67

Member
lmao. I was just thinking about kleegamefan the other day. That klee game was definitely made up. Still havent seen it two years later.

He did get the double digits tflops prediction right. I remember some posters were really upset at him over that because of the github leaks.
Haha. He also guessed PS5 was higher than XSX. He was absolutely kleeless
 

onQ123

Member
@ O onQ123 I wouldn't compare TF ratings to the bits of console past just yet. Even if not an end-all be-all number, floating point is still an important metric in terms of how GPUs are used, bits didn't mean anything by the end.

I was talking about using it as a selling point & if you haven't noticed Sony & Microsoft haven't been talking about GPU FLOPS.
Hell even the fan boys have shut up about the 10 vs 12 TFLOPS lately.
 
I was talking about using it as a selling point & if you haven't noticed Sony & Microsoft haven't been talking about GPU FLOPS.
Hell even the fan boys have shut up about the 10 vs 12 TFLOPS lately.

That's true. The marketing has changed a lot ever since the comparisons came out.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
I was talking about using it as a selling point & if you haven't noticed Sony & Microsoft haven't been talking about GPU FLOPS.
Hell even the fan boys have shut up about the 10 vs 12 TFLOPS lately.

That has happened over the last few gens, they only talk numbers at the very beginning. After they are quickly outpaced by PC, they don't talk about numbers anymore. LOL
 

sncvsrtoip

Member
lmao. I was just thinking about kleegamefan the other day. That klee game was definitely made up. Still havent seen it two years later.

He did get the double digits tflops prediction right. I remember some posters were really upset at him over that because of the github leaks.
he saw matrix demo 1.5 years ago, he also saw it on both platforms and seeing that ps5 has slight perf advantage concluded it has sllight tflops advantage over xsx, double digits was predicted based on quality of demo graphics, he wasn't fraud at all !
 
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Caio

Member
Did you experience freezes or the Demo causing your Console turning off ? I'm thinking to uninstall the demo if it can cause problems to my new Console. It happened twice in 5 minutes, apart from freezes and deep frame rate drops...
 
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Arioco

Member
Did you experience freezes or the Demo causing your Console turning off ? I'm thinking to uninstall the demo if it can causes problems to my new Console. It happened twice in 5 minutes, apart from freezes and deep frame rate drops...


No, not even once. What console are you playing on? In my case it's PS5.
 

Arioco

Member
XSX, and it has been perfect in every single Game, apart from this Demo...


Well, in that case I can't speak for Series X, but I don't think it should freeze, it's weird. Maybe someone who owns a Series X could tell us their experience playing this demo, but I installed it the day it was released and it's worked fine so far. Of course it could be a bug present on one version but not on the other, but to be honest you're the first one I see complaining about this issue. Maybe reinstalling the demo could help.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Did you experience freezes or the Demo causing your Console turning off ? I'm thinking to uninstall the demo if it can cause problems to my new Console. It happened twice in 5 minutes, apart from freezes and deep frame rate drops...

Nope, can't say I did. Series X here.
 

Caio

Member
Well, in that case I can't speak for Series X, but I don't think it should freeze, it's weird. Maybe someone who owns a Series X could tell us their experience playing this demo, but I installed it the day it was released and it's worked fine so far. Of course it could be a bug present on one version but not on the other, but to be honest you're the first one I see complaining about this issue. Maybe reinstalling the demo could help.
Oke, I will reinstall the Demo and I will see. I got scared by that terrible sound and my brand new XSX turning off...
 

oldergamer

Member
This is my opinion as well. I think latest figures show someone like less than 10%. In the NPD of November thread, someone posted a link for Spain sales there was 1 digital edition for every 25 physical units sold.
Full agree and this was expected imo. it was purely to be there to be competitive on price with limited intention on availability.
 

Arioco

Member
Oke, I will reinstall the Demo and I will see. I got scared by that terrible sound and my brand new XSX turning off...

Don't worry, I don't think a buggy software could damage your console, but in this case it might be better to reinstall that software, and if the issiue persists I would stop using it. Sometimes that shit happens, The Witcher 3 made my PS4 Pro crash several times.

We should wait for more Series X owners to tell us their experience, maybe it's a well known issue on Series consoles after all, but I honestly never heard of it before, it's a bit weird. Apparently there are some buggy ray traced reflections on Series consoles and there are videos and shots, but I've never seen anyone complaining about freezes before.
 

Caio

Member
Don't worry, I don't think a buggy software could damage your console, but in this case it might be better to reinstall that software, and if the issiue persists I would stop using it. Sometimes that shit happens, The Witcher 3 made my PS4 Pro crash several times.

We should wait for more Series X owners to tell us their experience, maybe it's a well known issue on Series consoles after all, but I honestly never heard of it before, it's a bit weird. Apparently there are some buggy ray traced reflections on Series consoles and there are videos and shots, but I've never seen anyone complaining about freezes before.
Consider that I didn't encounter one single microscopic issue while playing extensively games like Halo Infinite, Forza Horizon 5, Microsoft Flight Simulator, Doom Eternal and many others. My XSX is perfect. So, if the issue continues with the Matrix Demo after I reinstall it, it's a Demo software glitch. I basicly tryed the Demo, walking and exploring the City, then driving and flying like a Drone, then again walking, and the Demo freezed...I migh be afraid is the Demo...by the way, in half an hour I will try it again and I will let you know.
 
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Arioco

Member
Consider that I didn't encounter one single microscopic issue while playing extensively games like Halo Infinite, Forza Horizon 5, Microsoft Flight Simulator, Doom Eternal and many others. My XSX is perfect. So, if the issue continues with the Matrix Demo after I reinstall it, it a Demo software glitch. I basicly treid the Demo, walking and exploring the City, then driving and flying like a Drone, then again walking, and the Demo freezed...I migh be afraid is the Demo...by the way, in half an hour I will try it again and I will let you know.


Yes, I wouldn't worry too much, it looks like it's the demo itself, not your console, which seems to be working perfectly fine as it should. If the issue continues after you reinstall it just forget about the demo for a few days until it gets fixed and enjoy DOOM Eternal, which is one hell of a game, by the way. Rip and tear! 😂
 

Caio

Member
Yes, I wouldn't worry too much, it looks like it's the demo itself, not your console, which seems to be working perfectly fine as it should. If the issue continues after you reinstall it just forget about the demo for a few days until it gets fixed and enjoy DOOM Eternal, which is one hell of a game, by the way. Rip and tear! 😂
Doom Eternal is a pleasure for the eyes and a blast to play, I love it, didn't play it before on PS4/XBox One X. I tried the Matrix Demo again and no issue at all, even though I didn't stay there too much, maybe I did on purpose to avoid some surprises ah ah :D
 

twilo99

Member
I just saw this.. impressive efficiency from the s but is that max power draw then?

32755yhfy7c81.png
 
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Tripolygon

Banned
I just saw this.. impressive efficiency from the s but is that max power draw then?
It's a small SoC, it is supposed to draw less power but that is not the max power draw. This is where that screenshot is gotten from and the max I see in the video is 83W and hovers between 70W - 80W during normal open-world transversal. Keep in mind the power draw is game-dependent and is very variable on a per-scene basis.
GnzcGXl.png
 
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Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
In the free roaming section, am I the only one seeing a kind of weird artifact/halo around the characters’s head if you rotate the camera (camera points at her face in the area you started in, without moving the character at all). It might take a bit of time to reproduce it, some kind of reconstruction artifact IMHO…
 

twilo99

Member
It's a small SoC, it is supposed to draw less power but that is not the max power draw. This is where that screenshot is gotten from and the max I see in the video is 83W and hovers between 70W - 80W during normal open-world transversal. Keep in mind the power draw is game-dependent and is very variable on a per-scene basis.
GnzcGXl.png

Yeah 70-90w is probably where it hovers for most games, which I think its very similar to the ps4 in terms of power draw.
 
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