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[legacyzero]

If you think that primarying Joe Manchin is a good idea, then yes, you are uninformed.

Lol the guy is basically a republican. Don't be guilty of accusing folks like Bernie for not having a 50 state strategy, but then settling for fuckin blue dog Democrats. We can do better. But the Democrats have to talk about ISSUES, instead of weak platitudes and obfuscation. Stop settling.

Bernie always has and always will care more about the coalition than the cocktail party of losers you're so desperate to get invited to.

Your team is fine being on the sinking titanic as long as they have first class seats.

Damn, son. Nailed it

 

[kirblar]

I honestly can't tell if you're (a) seriously arguing that "economic issues" primarily benefit young, white heterosexual men, or (b) arguing that they don't but that they're still somehow predominantly a concern of young, white heterosexual men despite the fact that they disproportionately benefit the opposite demographics.

FDR is held up as a gold standard, but FDR achieved his gains in social program because of the Dixiecrats, who increased social benefits while denying them to minorities.

Bernie always has and always will care more about the coalition than the cocktail party of losers you're so desperate to get invited to.

Your team is fine being on the sinking titanic as long as they have first class seats.

If Bernie cared about the coalition he would have been a part of it for the past 3-4+ decades! He sat on the outside while everyone else did the work!

 

[Autodidact]

I honestly can't tell if you're (a) seriously arguing that "economic issues" primarily benefit young, white heterosexual men, or (b) arguing that they don't but that they're still somehow predominantly a concern of young, white heterosexual men despite the fact that they disproportionately benefit the opposite demographics.

I apologize for the ambiguity. Allow me to clarify.

Increasing incomes broadly fails to address other forms of social hierarchy. Women will still be paid less than men; black people will still be paid less than white people; gay people like me will still be susceptible to discrimination in most places. We should address economic AND social issues, but the young white men who constitute Bernie's fan base only care about the former. Why? Because heterosexual white men, already at the top of the economic and social ladders, stand to benefit most from an exclusive focus on economics. To be blunt, most of them couldn't give two shits about blacks or women or gays and the specific challenges we face. That's why they'll toss us under the bus and call our genuine concerns "identity politics."

 

[Frozenprince]

Lol the guy is basically a republican. Don't be guilty of accusing folks like Bernie for not having a 50 state strategy, but then settling for fuckin blue dog Democrats. We can do better. But the Democrats have to talk about ISSUES, instead of weak platitudes and obfuscation. Stop settling.

Cool so we can replace "basically a republican" with an actual hard line republican.

Such a great win.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

It is dependent at the point a lot of marginal voters dislike Pelosi and at the point she can be tied (however unfarily) to potential House candidates.

This is just true no matter how badly some Democrats don't want to believe it. Whether you think it's fair or not doesn't change reality.

 

[Nafai1123]

Whenever an up and coming Democrat grows in popularity, they are going to be demonized by the right. That's just the way it's going to be because it's proven so effective for them. All we can do as liberals is not fall for it, and far too many have failed in that regard.

 

[JoeBoy101]

I'm 43. Do you not get it? I'm too old to have any hope of ever seeing a left leaning Supreme Court in my lifetime. It will not happen in the short amount of time a 43 year old man has left on the earth. Anyone who is 43 has very little chance of it happening in their lifetime.

Dude, you're 43, not 63. I've seen quite a bit in my 42 years, and to say there's little chance is silly. The only thing sillier is...

deciding not to vote if you can't get the Supreme Court?

You going to vote in local races? State races? At all? If not, then fine, but follow the creed:

IF YOU DON'T VOTE, DON'T COMPLAIN.

I get the dejection, but you're going full Prima Donna.

 

[legacyzero]

Cool so we can replace "basically a republican" with an actual hard line republican.

Such a great win.

So defeatist up in here lol. I'm literally shaking my head.

All the momentum we've been building in even deep red states like with the GA06 that we just lost, but had great gains in. The GOP are falling on their swords. Why don't we help them, instead of stinky attitudes?

Clean out the filth of the party. Stand for something or sit.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

I think it's a good lesson.

Democrats can't win on "NOT TRUMP" alone

They have to offer something positive. People don't vote against, they vote for.

Nah, people are voting against at this point. If they were voting for something positive then you wouldn't hear stories of people who are willing to be burnt by the system all to not vote democrat. We are at this point fighting ideologies, not real politics.

 

[HStallion]

Whenever an up and coming Democrat grows in popularity, they are going to be demonized by the right. That's just the way it's going to be because it's proven so effective for them. All we can do as liberals is not fall for it, and far too many have failed in that regard.

Yeah this is what I'm saying. They had to basically make shit up on the spot to smear Obama but they smeared him none-the-less to a lot of their base who ate up all the rhetoric and bull shit whether it was him not being born in the US or picking up an on every imagined slight like him not saluting the troops when getting off Air Force 1 (despite every President doing this). The GOP runs on the belief that Democrats, the Left, Elites, Intellectuals, Urban Centers and so on are the worst thing to ever happen to the USA and will destroy us if they don't fight back tooth and nail

 

[Autodidact]

So defeatist up in here lol. I'm literally shaking my head.

All the momentum we've been building in even deep red states like with the GA06 that we just lost, but had great gains in. The GOP are falling on their swords. Why don't we help them, instead of stinky attitudes?

Wouldn't taking away the one Democrat who can win West Virginia be us stabbing ourselves in the stomachs? Check the polls. Manchin currently has substantial leads over any Republican challenger.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Lol the guy is basically a republican. Don't be guilty of accusing folks like Bernie for not having a 50 state strategy, but then settling for fuckin blue dog Democrats. We can do better. But the Democrats have to talk about ISSUES, instead of weak platitudes and obfuscation. Stop settling.

Joe Manchin has been winning elections in WV for the last deacde+ with large margins. You don't win like that without talking about the issues people in WV care about.

 

[Abinash117]

Good politicians don't desperately bow down to the status quo and praise CEOs for their regressive measures when the youth of the country clearly wants to move away from capitalism.

Democrats are so fucking scared of change.

I'm asking honesty, do you know what it would take from switching from a capitalist system to a socialist one?

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Bernie always has and always will care more about the coalition than the cocktail party of losers you're so desperate to get invited to.

Your team is fine being on the sinking titanic as long as they have first class seats.

Bernie is love!

Bernie is life!

Bernie is the one hope at salvation! All heretics will be smited and tossed aside while we walk down the path of holy righteousness!

 

[LinkAndEpona]

if only there was a grassroots democrat that reached out to the middle class and pushed for progressive ideals...if only. Maybe that person can reach out and get democrats in line like he did during the primaries.

Too bad he had two challenges to face, each bigger than any politician has ever had to face.

1. Get proud Americans to adopt real leftist progressive economic policies.

2. Get career democrats to do the same.

 

[TurnipFritters]

I'm asking honesty, do you know what it would take from switching from a capitalist system to a socialist one?

Don't worry, it's fine. Socialism is just capitalism with a stronger social safety net, right?

 

[Autodidact]

Too bad he had two challenges to face, each bigger than any politician has ever had to face.

1. Get proud Americans to adopt real leftist progressive economic policies.

2. Get career democrats to do the same.

All the black people who saw that Bernie wasn't doing shit to reassure minorities must not be proud Americans. Only young, white, heterosexual males (the bulk of his fan base) who love socialist policies (that will benefit them most) are proud Americans.

 

[Lifeline]

Democrats need to make jobs and economy their primary issue.

That's literally all Bernie talked about and he did well with independents and Trump's base.

democrats would never vote for trump. They need to stop worrying about winning them over.

 

[legacyzero]

Wouldn't taking away the one Democrat who can win West Virginia be us stabbing ourselves in the stomachs? Check the polls. Manchin currently has substantial leads over any Republican challenger.

You're assuming he's unbeatable. And he's shitty. You know that. At least Paula (his challenger) will talk directly to the people. Supporting the issues, including Single Payer. Health care is a huge issue. Manchin doesn't support it. At least try and see the opportunities

Joe Manchin has been winning elections in WV for the last deacde+ with large margins. You don't win like that without talking about the issues people in WV care about.

I mean, it's worth taking a look at

‪ https://brandnewcongress.org/paulajean‬

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Democrats need to make jobs and economy their primary issue.

That's literally all Bernie talked about and he did well with independents and Trump's base.

democrats would never vote for trump. They need to stop worrying about winning them over.

Clinton did well with women and educated whites too in polling!

Guess what?

Republicans. Come. Home.

 

[shamanick]

All the black people who saw that Bernie wasn't doing shit to reassure minorities must not be proud Americans. Only young, white, heterosexual males (the bulk of his fan base) who love socialist policies (that will benefit them most) are proud Americans.

And the erasure of non-white male Sanders supporters continues

 

[Maledict]

Lol the guy is basically a republican. Don't be guilty of accusing folks like Bernie for not having a 50 state strategy, but then settling for fuckin blue dog Democrats. We can do better. But the Democrats have to talk about ISSUES, instead of weak platitudes and obfuscation. Stop settling.

Damn, son. Nailed it

You do understand that a 50 state strategy is not trying to elect a socialist in every state right?

That Joe Manchin is *literally* the embodiment of a 50 state strategy?

 

[excelsiorlef]

Too bad he had two challenges to face, each bigger than any politician has ever had to face.

1. Get proud Americans to adopt real leftist progressive economic policies.

2. Get career democrats to do the same.

3. Run in the South.

 

[TyrantII]

Lol the guy is basically a republican. Don't be guilty of accusing folks like Bernie for not having a 50 state strategy, but then settling for fuckin blue dog Democrats. We can do better. But the Democrats have to talk about ISSUES, instead of weak platitudes and obfuscation. Stop settling.

Damn, son. Nailed it

This is dumb.

The objective isn't to put people in those races that have no ability to win.

The objective is to keep Manchin there, but only use him for party line votes when you need him. The objective is to use it block a GOP majority.

Look at how neutered oh so concerned McCain is. Concerned at every level and event, lock step votes with the GOP. A 50 state strategy means finding people for every nook you can to win a majority to implement the platform, not a purity test for some Portland super liberals wet dream team.

 

[Autodidact]

Democrats need to make jobs and economy their primary issue.

That's literally all Bernie talked about and he did well with independents and Trump's base.

democrats would never vote for trump. They need to stop worrying about winning them over.

It doesn't give you pause that Trump was some Bernie supporters' #2 candidate after Bernie himself? That doesn't tell you just a little bit about how exclusionary Bernie's "movement" was?

 

[TurnipFritters]

Democrats need to make jobs and economy their primary issue.

That's literally all Bernie talked about and he did well with independents and Trump's base.

democrats would never vote for trump. They need to stop worrying about winning them over.

And that's why Bernie Sanders won the primary and went on to become President, right?

 

[Toxi]

You do understand that a 50 state strategy is not trying to elect a socialist in every state right?

That Joe Manchin is *literally* the embodiment of a 50 state strategy?

Yeah. If you want to do a 50 state strategy, that means swallowing some shit in the shitty states.

 

[Autodidact]

And the erasure of non-white male Sanders supporters continues

Here.

 

[Trouble]

Yes, let's primary Manchin from the left so that the seat goes red.

Yeah. If you want to do a 50 state strategy, that means swallowing some shit in the shitty states.

I don't think the bolded means what you think it means. A 50 state strategy doesn't mean pushing far left candidates in every race.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

I mean, it's worth taking a look at

‪ https://brandnewcongress.org/paulajean‬

She's welcome to try, but to advocate a 50 state strategy but then expect all the candidates in those states to be the same is just ignorant. The current Republican governor in Massachusetts would be a Democrat in Alabama. That's what a 50 state strategy looks like.

 

[Rayis]

Job creation isn't a social issue?

That's one of the reasons the Democrats/liberals are losing so much.

Every single candidate worth a damn runs on a job creation platform, some Democrats are wanting to focus solely on that while ignoring other important issues, if that isn't problematic as fuck to you then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Frozenprince]

Damn, son. Nailed it

Oh will you stop. I'm as liberal and progressive as they come, I just don't want my issues shoved aside so you can wage your class war, am tired of being talked too like I'm the god damn equal to the GOP for not wanting Bernie Sanders and his disciples, and live in the reality of the situation that the vast majority of voting America is never going to be in favor of hard leftist candidates who will increase taxes.

This has nothing to do with sitting on a sinking ship. This has everything to do with people trying to fight seats they can't win and only doing damage in the process because they are really part of the Democratic party, they're party of Bernie's party.

 

[Lifeline]

All the black people who saw that Bernie wasn't doing shit to reassure minorities must not be proud Americans. Only young, white, heterosexual males (the bulk of his fan base) who love socialist policies (that will benefit them most) are proud Americans.

First of all, bernie had black support too. Not as large as Clintons, but let's not pretend Bernie's message was resonating with the black community at all.

And I don't want to sound like a dick, but when the time comes. Blacks, Hispanics, Women, etc will not vote Trump and will vote Democrat. The swing vote lies with the white working class right now and they need to find a candidate who is strongest with that base, which Bernie was/is.

It sucks, I'm not white either, but I want to win.

 

[shamanick]

Here.

Lol dictionary links. Classic pedantry. I'm shocked.

 

[kirblar]

It doesn't give you pause that Trump was some Bernie supporters' #2 candidate after Bernie himself? That doesn't tell you just a little bit about how exclusionary Bernie's "movement" was?

Hell, Trump was some supporters' #1 candidate! - http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/trump-voters-boost-sanders-west-virginia

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Here.

Bernie won Native American and Muslim voters and might have won Asian voters overall (it's hard to figure this out but he did get 70% of the vote in Hawaii sooo)

these get ignored because they're electorally small groups but "only young white men liked Bernie" is absolutely wrong

 

[Autodidact]

First of all, bernie had black support too. Not as large as Clintons, but let's not pretend Bernie's message was resonating with the black community at all.

And I don't want to sound like a dick, but when the time comes. Blacks, Hispanics, Women, etc will not vote Trump and will vote Democrat. The swing vote lies with the white working class right now and they need to find a candidate who is strongest with that base, which Bernie was/is.

It sucks, I'm not white either, but I want to win.

"We know the blacks and gays and Muslims and bi - sorry, women will vote for us, so we shouldn't give them anything and talk about their issues. What other choice do they have?"

~~~Allies~~~

 

[benicillin]

First of all, bernie had black support too. Not as large as Clintons, but let's not pretend Bernie's message was resonating with the black community at all.

And I don't want to sound like a dick, but when the time comes. Blacks, Hispanics, Women, etc will not vote Trump and will vote Democrat. The swing vote lies with the white working class right now and they need to find a candidate who is strongest with that base, which Bernie was/is.

It sucks, I'm not white either, but I want to win.

Nope, this is a bad argument that should be avoided at all costs. This is how you lose elections.

 

[Suikoguy]

Please name three characteristics about Nancy Pelosi -- her specifically, not "the House Minority Leader" -- that make her uniquely problematic as a leader of the Democratic Party.

I got to page 10 before I gave up. Not a single response to this that I noticed.

3) People who think age and time isn't on her side and that now we have no power now is a good time to find someone new and get some necessary experience in.

Having someone ready to take up the mantle of House Minority/Majority leader is obvious, but that has nothing to do with dropping her because the GOP hates her.
Someone used sarcasm to say "She is old" as a reason to Pigeon's question, but you used it seriously!

Does nothing for them. Minority turnout was depressed (black) or stable (latino) at best in 2016.

This is so diet racist, it hurts.
Quit caring about minorities because they did not turn out in record numbers?
What if I told you turnout in 2016 was similar to 2004 among African Americans?
http://www.electproject.org/home/voter-turnout/demographics

It seems like a good chunk of these "True Progressives" have some questionable morals on minority groups.

Well there's some strategic stuff to work on like not investing all your money and your hopes and dreams into one special election in a Republican district. But otherwise yeah.

Was probably the biggest mistake. Diminishing returns is real.
There is also danger of over-saturation, and getting people who did not see the significance of this race frustrated with the inundation.

 

[Maledict]

First of all, bernie had black support too. Not as large as Clintons, but let's not pretend Bernie's message was resonating with the black community at all.

And I don't want to sound like a dick, but when the time comes. Blacks, Hispanics, Women, etc will not vote Trump and will vote Democrat. The swing vote lies with the white working class right now and they need to find a candidate who is strongest with that base, which Bernie was/is.

It sucks, I'm not white either, but I want to win.

You say that, but the decrease in black turnout was one big part of why Clinton lost in those swing states. You cannot take the base for granted.

 

[Toxi]

I don't think the bolded means what you think it means. A 50 state strategy doesn't mean pushing far left candidates in every race.

...I don't think you understood my post. I was agreeing with the person I quoted. If you want to successfully do a 50 state strategy, that means you have to settle with some candidates like Manchin.

 

[Frozenprince]

Pur goal should be winning elections and doing what's necessary not pushing ideological purity because you want too despite them almost guaranteed to lose.

 

[jakonovski]

The American dream seems to be all the people, no matter your creed, ethnicity, gender or sexuality, equally free to submit to the 1%.

 

[Mahadev]

Leftism is not popular in the US. It wasn't even popular in the Dem primary - Sanders lost Dem voters 2:1.

I agree w/ the anti-establishment part, it's why the Dems need to run fresh/new candidates for Pres. (This is why Gillibrand is both blatantly prepping for a run while denying she's doing it and keeping out of the crosshairs as much as she can.)

You can't have populism without Sanders in the DNC. How will you achieve it, by trying to convince the already cynical public that corporate Dems started caring about them and will change the country even though they haven't done it for years now? Let me make this clear, this is not about a few issues, The American public demands a complete change of course any means necessary (which partly explains Trump).

And Sanders lost because both corporate media and the DNC fought him tooth and nail in the beginning and his popularity only started growing exponentially at the end. Your statement that leftism is not popular in the US is factually incorrect given that Sanders is the most popular politician in the country.

 

[midramble]

Do people here think Dems are going to abandon their base just because they are changing the theme of their message? Don't you think their base stance would remain the same and a central message would be for flippable people?

I guess again it's one of those features of the left vs right:

Left:
Candidate didn't specifically mention my issue... Fuck it, not voting. They need to change the party. They'll never win unless they start specifically focusing on my issue.

Right:
Candidate didn't mention any of my issues... Oh well, as long as they are republican I should be generally taken care of. Better than a democrat. Fuck it, I'll vote for a clown.

Idealism of the left too often feels like an all or nothing prospect, while the right will seemingly vote for literally anyone/anything that mentions the commandments of republicans.

 

[Trouble]

...I don't think you understood my post. I was agreeing with the person I quoted. If you want to successfully do a 50 state strategy, that means you have to settle with some candidates like Manchin.

Ah, sorry.

 

[Frozenprince]

The American dream seems to be all the people, no matter your creed, ethnicity, gender or sexuality, equally free to submit to the 1%.

You can be black and wealthy and you're still nothing but a dog in the eyes of a good chunk of the country.

Wealth doesn't remove racism or intolerance.

 

[shamanick]

The American dream seems to be all the people, no matter your creed, ethnicity, gender or sexuality, equally free to submit to the 1%.

And the Democratic dream is that the 1% is sufficiently diverse

 

[BADMAN]

I have a better idea, if we continue to devolve into snarky insults and disrespect each other then we can have a truly un-unified message that will be sure to snag us some seats in 2018.

This article is right, our branding has no message. Dems make policy based on focus testing while GOP makes policy based on what they want to accomplish. We look ineffective when compared to the other party. This is the responsibility of the leadership. I don't care how much you like or dislike Pelosi, she hasn't brought in results. If you don't agree with that then please tell me what the problem actually is.

 

[VendettaRed07]

Bernie's campaign was poor, not well thought out and advised by a collection of complete idiots. He did no have the discipline to run a national primary and he didn't have the same luck Trump had to compete in a loaded field with an establishment vote that ate its self allowing a candidate who never won a majority in a single primary state to win the whole thing.

That does not mean that many of his economic platform ideas would play badly used by a candidate who actually knew what they were doing and had the capability of winning a national primary by merging together democrats who were turned on by some of his ideas and the minority voters he did poorly with. You can win both.

Next Democratic primary will actually more so resemble a clown car that was the 2016 GOP Primary so anyone who wants to win should get started on a clear cohesive message because it is unlikely someone who struggles to stick with a consistent platform like Hillary did will be able to win and it will likely go to whoever sells an idea and message that sticks out above the rest.