Soapbox Killer
Grand Nagus
The difference in Old Man Luke (OML) and this Obi Wan is we know that this Obi Wan finds the way while OML was built up to a messiah like level in Episode 7 and the payoff was less than expected.
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The difference in Old Man Luke (OML) and this Obi Wan is we know that this Obi Wan finds the way while OML was built up to a messiah like level in Episode 7 and the payoff was less than expected.
sol_bad
Member
Luke didn't find his way by the end of his arc?
BLAUcopter
Gold Member
BlackTron
Member
After episode 3, my opinion is the same. This could have been a fine movie, but their execution making this drawn out show has too many bad/incompetent moments and it just feels stunted for something as much of a supposed big deal as Ewan McGregor and Hayden C coming back on screen together to reprise these roles.
When Darth Vader turned around and walked away from the wall of fire, completely letting Obi-wan get away with no effort whatsoever from that point, it felt like Leia running away in the woods.
Darth Vader alone probably could have just walked through or force jumped through the fire. He also had all his troops and backup and had the full might of the Empire at his disposal and knew exactly where Obi Wan was. It made no sense to chase this guy tenaciously throughout the galaxy and then give up because of that one stupid obstacle.
I mean Vader literally killed and tortured people out in the open to try and draw out Obi-wan. Then you realize he didn't really want to catch him that badly after all when he just gives up immediately over nothing.
When Darth Vader turned around and walked away from the wall of fire, completely letting Obi-wan get away with no effort whatsoever from that point, it felt like Leia running away in the woods.
Darth Vader alone probably could have just walked through or force jumped through the fire. He also had all his troops and backup and had the full might of the Empire at his disposal and knew exactly where Obi Wan was. It made no sense to chase this guy tenaciously throughout the galaxy and then give up because of that one stupid obstacle.
I mean Vader literally killed and tortured people out in the open to try and draw out Obi-wan. Then you realize he didn't really want to catch him that badly after all when he just gives up immediately over nothing.
BlackTron
Member
I noticed this too. The real reason of course is because the writers know the characters are going to get out of it because the Imperial Officer is a good guy -thus Obi Wan gave up immediately, and they needed the max number of Stormtroopers an officer can reasonably shoot in the back (3) even though it would take more than that for OWK to give up in the first place.
But this show has a LOT of "we know they end up at B, how do they get there from A" and just using lazy writing to bridge the gap. A LOT.
It's a completely different type of quality problem than say, the prequels, like they solved some issues while introducing many more. The issues aren't even really creative ones, they're just failing at common sense. I also didn't like when OW got the jump on the Stormtrooper that was holding Leia at gunpoint. It just seemed like tossing out every by-the-numbers trick in the book that a character with plot armor gets away with.
It feels like Star Wars as a slapped together streaming product to make a deadline. Uneven quality issues aren't a big deal because there's always the next episode to pump out. (Even though you know they had forever to develop this show, that's what it feels like).
Soapbox Killer
Grand Nagus
He did but the expectations were different. We already know what happens to Obi Wan we just lack the how. We are already ok with it since it's the very first thing most of us know about Star Wars being episode 4.
Luke Skywalker was not afforded such luxury. Also I assume that some people would think it is more plausible that Order 66 and "killing" Anakin gives Obi Wan more reasons to be lost than Luke with Ben Solo.
Madflavor
Member
"Nobody hates Star Wars like Star Wars fans"
Is that really true though? Because they seem ridiculously easy to please as well. As long as you throw up familiar imagery, cameos from other shows, and nostalgia bait them, they seem to completely lose their minds. It doesn't matter if the writing is shoddy, the production looks cheap, continuity errors are created, or if history is changed in a way that lessens the impact of certain scenes in the OT.
That Vader vs. Obi-Wan fight in Episode 3 was awful. It really did look like a fan film as far as the choreography, visuals, camera work, and production was concerned. Not to mention it lessens the impact of their reunion of ANH. Their reunion wasn't on the Death Star twenty years later. It was in some quarry in the middle of the desert at night. The dialogue wasn't even that great either. That scene should've carried way more weight to it.
It all feels so cheap. But Star Wars so fans eat it up. Redlettermedia was so right all those years back. All Star Wars needs to do is nostalgia bait or throw in cameos, and the horde will be kept happy. Everytime I see comments cheering on cameos from other Dave Filoni work, I can hear Rich Evans in my brain.
"Looook it's Cad Baaaaane!"
"It's Ashoka Taaaaanooooo!"
"BABY YOOOOODAAAA!!!!"
Is that really true though? Because they seem ridiculously easy to please as well. As long as you throw up familiar imagery, cameos from other shows, and nostalgia bait them, they seem to completely lose their minds. It doesn't matter if the writing is shoddy, the production looks cheap, continuity errors are created, or if history is changed in a way that lessens the impact of certain scenes in the OT.
That Vader vs. Obi-Wan fight in Episode 3 was awful. It really did look like a fan film as far as the choreography, visuals, camera work, and production was concerned. Not to mention it lessens the impact of their reunion of ANH. Their reunion wasn't on the Death Star twenty years later. It was in some quarry in the middle of the desert at night. The dialogue wasn't even that great either. That scene should've carried way more weight to it.
It all feels so cheap. But Star Wars so fans eat it up. Redlettermedia was so right all those years back. All Star Wars needs to do is nostalgia bait or throw in cameos, and the horde will be kept happy. Everytime I see comments cheering on cameos from other Dave Filoni work, I can hear Rich Evans in my brain.
"Looook it's Cad Baaaaane!"
"It's Ashoka Taaaaanooooo!"
"BABY YOOOOODAAAA!!!!"
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Ulysses 31
Member
The lines between Vader and Obi-Wan also left a lot to be desired. "You should've killed me when you had the chance." comes of as very generic these days IMO, "What have you become?" "What you made me.", really? After all this time of hunting Obi-Wan Vader wouldn't say anything of the lengths he went through to get closer, all other people, including Jedi, he killed in his hunt?
Maybe Vader brings it up in the next encounters but IMO Vader is too composed to meet the one who caused him so much pain(in his mind) to be toying with him for so long instead of getting down to serious business.
Madflavor
Member
Agreed, it all feels wrong.
Nitty_Grimes
Made a crappy phPBB forum once ... once.
When does he take his helmet off?
Ulysses 31
Member
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
I do. Andor does indeed look better.
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Dr.Morris79
Gold Member
And? Obi hasnt seen Anakin since he thought he died, and we get this wet fart on a dry Sunday
These writers would struggle writing on a fucking toilet cubicle door and yet here they are with a multi million pound franchise shitting it into the ground
There is zero excuse, they're just incompetent, and it shows. They need letting go, it's just embarrassing.
RAÏSanÏa
Member
These criticisms sound the same as those leveled against Episode 1 when it came out. Almost like the criticisms sound like they come from a script or the some youtube channel like RLM from years ago. Adults complaining about children's shows in bizarrely self torturing critical ways .
Andor has been the series I've been looking forward to the most and it doesn't seem to get as much attention. Which is probably just as well.
RAÏSanÏa
Member
It's funny how some people are about Star Wars.
Some even hate it so much but can't stop consuming it.
DKehoe
Member
I haven't thought it's been amazing so far or anything like that. But why don't the people who think it's so bad just stop watching? Seems like no matter how bad they think it is they just keep coming back for more. There's plenty of other stuff out there to watch instead.
Ionian
Member
Theres always a last hope for kids who grew up on the originals.
Then we got the shitty prequels.
Then everything else. It's Disney so won't stop.
Ulysses 31
Member
Can't really blame someone wanting to see the new canon around their beloved franchise.
RAÏSanÏa
Member
And there's so many different shows out there and such little time.
After watching a few minutes of the SW cartoons I knew right away that wasn't going to work for me. Anything like that I can catch up on wookipedia.
Mossybrew
Gold Member
Well I would have stopped after the second episode but I was curious to see Vader again. But yeah after that I've had enough of this show.
LaughingStock
Member
I only watched episode 3. But now I feel like I need to watch this trainwreck until the end.
If Ewan wasn't in it I'd swear this show was fan-made.
If Ewan wasn't in it I'd swear this show was fan-made.
Ulysses 31
Member
At least watch the Leia chase scenes, they're a stand out for official Star Wars material.
Romulus
Member
At least watch the Leia chase scenes, they're a stand out for official Star Wars material.
Not anymore. The whole brand is a shit show. This was my last hope that there were passionate people behind the brand. I knew better. They didn't even allow critically minded people to read the script. Typical narcissist bullshit I'm sure to protect their egos.
Anyone with an average IQ would have ripped these scenes apart in the scripting process. They don't make sense. The best thing they did was Vader's voice, (which was outsourced)and hired Ewan and Hayden, but they still managed to fuck that up too.
jufonuk
not tag worthy
liked episode three, up to a point.
Vader loves Obi wan still so he couldn't kill him out right. the long close up shots of vader's big black helmet reflecting the flames really sold it to me.
also for Anakin killing kids is easy for him so he had no issues.
I thought the Mole dude was Seph Rogan but was actually Zac Braff
but I can't wait until vader and Obi throw down. Obi just needs to get his grove back.
Vader loves Obi wan still so he couldn't kill him out right. the long close up shots of vader's big black helmet reflecting the flames really sold it to me.
also for Anakin killing kids is easy for him so he had no issues.
I thought the Mole dude was Seph Rogan but was actually Zac Braff
but I can't wait until vader and Obi throw down. Obi just needs to get his grove back.
RAÏSanÏa
Member
Scripting has been one of the weaker aspects to D+ shows. Inconsistencies. Wouldn't even require much to improve. As an example the Leia chase scene only needed a few minutes of setup and she's a ten year old that knows how to use a stun blaster. She didn't need to run away twice. Could've explained it with dialogue between Bail and wife. During the chase they could even have done some reference to her capture from IV. Classic pose.
It's not that difficult to believe she'd have some training. Her mother was leading armed assaults at 14, wasn't it? And I just watched that trailer for the galaxy of adventures cartoon and she's firing blasters like it's a parody.
It would make her later attempts at escape more believable too. Unexpectedly operating tech, grabbing guns then opening fire during quickly contrived exit strategies would've worked. Especially if they showed background that a lot of it came from the Organa's teaching based on Padme's upbringing.
But even with those complaints D+ had some good Episodes too. Like the Mando ones from Boba Fett. Maybe some inconsistency with the Dark Saber, but that is below my caring. I liked seeing someone get hurt with their own saber. We all know that's what would really happen to most everyone. Punching the bag with baby Yoda and the IG unit. lol There's good moments.
Ulysses 31
Member
Did he really at that point? I mean he tried to kill him even before he got Sith training in Ep3...
He wants payback and probably some acknowledgement of his own failures before finishing him off.
Btw, Kathleen Kennedy said rematch of the century, the next fight(s) must be magnitudes better than this.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Nah, he wants him to suffer. Like a cat playing with it's food.
Romulus
Member
Scripting has been one of the weaker aspects to D+ shows. Inconsistencies. Wouldn't even require much to improve. As an example the Leia chase scene only needed a few minutes of setup and she's a ten year old that knows how to use a stun blaster. She didn't need to run away twice. Could've explained it with dialogue between Bail and wife. During the chase they could even have done some reference to her capture from IV. Classic pose.
It's not that difficult to believe she'd have some training. Her mother was leading armed assaults at 14, wasn't it? And I just watched that trailer for the galaxy of adventures cartoon and she's firing blasters like it's a parody.
It would make her later attempts at escape more believable too. Unexpectedly operating tech, grabbing guns then opening fire during quickly contrived exit strategies would've worked. Especially if they showed background that a lot of it came from the Organa's teaching based on Padme's upbringing.
But even with those complaints D+ had some good Episodes too. Like the Mando ones from Boba Fett. Maybe some inconsistency with the Dark Saber, but that is below my caring. I liked seeing someone get hurt with their own saber. We all know that's what would really happen to most everyone. Punching the bag with baby Yoda and the IG unit. lol There's good moments.
Agreed on all points. But let's be real, Leia can escape from anyone or anything if she really wants to.
kraspkibble
Permabanned.
only just started watching it so only 1 episode in. not really what i was expecting. i mean i just thought it'd be about obi watching over luke. wasn't expecting leia to be in it. well maybe a little but it seems she'll be the focus of the plot.
going to go watch episode 2 now. i can't wait to see darth vader
edit: from the replies in here i suppose i'm meant to hate it star wars fans never disappoint. can't enjoy anything.
going to go watch episode 2 now. i can't wait to see darth vader
edit: from the replies in here i suppose i'm meant to hate it
star wars fans never disappoint. can't enjoy anything.
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Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
So far Obi Wan is very average at best and that third episode was very poor. And this is coming from somebody who did not hate and actually really likes the prequels. In fact aesthetically, I wish we would go back to the prequel era.
As for Andor, it looks much better than Obi-Wan and I'm actually looking forward to it. Watched the trailer twice already.
Overall though, I have to admit I am not a big fan of Disney Star Wars.
Dr.Morris79
Gold Member
If it was a coherent Star wars story, i'd agree
MrMephistoX
Member
He totally did but the flaw to me is that the clone wars filled in more of why Obi Wan may have PTSD in addition to ROTS. With Luke we got one flashback explaining it but there’s a 30 year gap of him being a badass that we never got to see until Mando. I’m pretty sure people will grow to appreciate TLJ eventually but it’s going to take like 7 seasons of Mando or Ashoka or a Jedi Academy series with CGI Luke to fill in the blanks for him to earn his PTSD. I’m in the love TLJ hate TROS camp at the moment but am confident those gaps will get filled in to make even TROS somewhat more palatable.
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John Marston
GAF's very own treasure goblin
Most of you have already echoed my feelings & as a kid who first saw Star Wars in 1977 in theaters and fell in love I remain curious but disappointed and sad.
I'd belive this if Vader had gotten close and tormented Ben several times before, leaving Ben hurt, desperate, and shaken each time. But this is his one (and maybe only?) shot at Ben in TEN YEARS and Vader lets him go?
Nah, ain't buying it.
Romulus
Member
Makes no sense. And if Lord Vader wanted Obi to suffer why not force pull him and that robot toward him and take him as prisoner?
John Marston
GAF's very own treasure goblin
My EMPIRE poster LOVES you all.
Signed by:
Mark Hamill
Carrie Fisher
Harrison Ford
David Prowse
Peter Mayhew
Dave Barclay
Jeremy Bulloch
Anthony Daniels
Billy Dee Williams
Kenny Baker
Signed by:
Mark Hamill
Carrie Fisher
Harrison Ford
David Prowse
Peter Mayhew
Dave Barclay
Jeremy Bulloch
Anthony Daniels
Billy Dee Williams
Kenny Baker
Thaedolus
Gold Member
This is actually a plausible, redeeming scenario for how it went down...Vader is Anakin, Anakin's weakness was his arrogance/cockiness. When the show closeups Vader looking through the flames, for all we know he's smirking underneath the mask, enjoying the thoughts that Obi-wan knows Anakin's still alive, Obi-wan knows he's hurt him with minimal effort, and Obi-wan knows he's after him now. They could even cement this with a couple lines of dialogue in the next episode. Do I think they will...............?
...........ehhhhhh........
DKehoe
Member
I wouldn't say the problem with the Leia chase scene was the writing. Her getting chased and managing to avoid them for a little bit before being captured is fine as a concept. We've all seen scenes in films and TV shows where kids get pursued by adults and it doesn't look terrible. Also, she's more familiar with that forest than they are and her being smaller means she could dodge them and duck through spaces they can't. So you can do things to make it work. The issue is more with the blocking and editing because they set things up in a way that exposes the situation as being kinda ridiculous rather than making it look somewhat believable.Scripting has been one of the weaker aspects to D+ shows. Inconsistencies. Wouldn't even require much to improve. As an example the Leia chase scene only needed a few minutes of setup and she's a ten year old that knows how to use a stun blaster. She didn't need to run away twice. Could've explained it with dialogue between Bail and wife. During the chase they could even have done some reference to her capture from IV. Classic pose.
It's not that difficult to believe she'd have some training. Her mother was leading armed assaults at 14, wasn't it? And I just watched that trailer for the galaxy of adventures cartoon and she's firing blasters like it's a parody.
It would make her later attempts at escape more believable too. Unexpectedly operating tech, grabbing guns then opening fire during quickly contrived exit strategies would've worked. Especially if they showed background that a lot of it came from the Organa's teaching based on Padme's upbringing.
But even with those complaints D+ had some good Episodes too. Like the Mando ones from Boba Fett. Maybe some inconsistency with the Dark Saber, but that is below my caring. I liked seeing someone get hurt with their own saber. We all know that's what would really happen to most everyone. Punching the bag with baby Yoda and the IG unit. lol There's good moments.
I mean, canon kinda isn't an objective thing. Disney executives didn't create Star Wars. Just because they handed over a bunch of cash does that mean they get to dictate to you what happens next in that story? You don't owe it to them to watch. If you aren't enjoying it that much. So what's keeping you watching? Even if there was a curiosity over what the new thing was like, you now know you really don't like it so why spend more hours watching it?Can't really blame someone wanting to see the new canon around their beloved franchise.
BlackTron
Member
They also give you just enough to string you along and make you hope/make you want to check.
I thought the prequels made many blunders, but I still liked Star Wars. I was ready to be forgiving of Disney too, but they made SW so depressing to think about that I didn't even bother watching Ep9 until 2 years after it came out -and I never bothered sharing my opinion on it either, watching it was a complete afterthought to me (it turned out to be even worse than my low expectations). Pretty much a lapsed fan, I let it go.
But, then Rogue One was pretty good and Mandalorian was INSANE. They demonstrate they can get things right from time to time, and the payoff when they do is worth it.
So, I don't think it's very surprising that a lot of people check out new Star Wars media and are vocally opinionated when they find out it sucks for lame/preventable reasons like failing at basic film making principles. After Mandalorian just fucking happened.
BlackTron
Member
Well actually, yes. Disney executives get to dictate what happens next in the story. The reason for this is because they handed over a bunch of cash. Objectively, their word is canon.
This is why we have the concept of personal canon -subjectively!
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
He saw Kenobi as no challenge, he wants to face a Kenobi that defeated him on Mustafar, so he is tormenting him, making him live in fear, hoping to unlock that old Kenobi so he can best him.
Vader knows what he is doing. He is now methodical, no longer the impulsive Anakin.
Ulysses 31
Member
Still, he's taking a big risk letting Obi-Wan go like that after 10 years or searching.
And who's to say Obi-Wan will take another shot at him after this humiliating defeat or become anywhere near as strong again as Ep3/OT Obi-Wan. That itself could take a while and is he really willing to wait for that?
This does come off as Vader having read the script and just KNOWS he can let Obi-Wan go.
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DKehoe
Member
Legally they can make commercial Star Wars products. They can call something Star Wars Episode VII and sell tickets to it whereas you or me couldn't. That's essentially what differentiates the Disney stuff from fanfiction. Canon isn't a legal term right? It's just subjective. Things that used to be "official canon" no longer are. So it's not like it's a fixed thing. If you feel like Disney isn't handling these characters in the right way then you can just decide it doesn't count and that's that. As I said no one owes it to them to watch.
I just don't really get someone sitting down to watch hour after hour of something they know they are going to hate.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I’m just going by the canon comics. This is how Vader was in them, he doesn’t want a shell of a man to face. I think he may face him again.Still, he's taking a big risk letting Obi-Wan go like that after 10 years or searching.
And who's to say Obi-Wan will take another shot at him after this humiliating defeat or become anywhere near as strong again as Ep3/OT Obi-Wan. That itself could take a while and is he really willing to wait for that?
This does come off as Vader having read the script and just KNOWS he can let Obi-Wan go.
BlackTron
Member
No, it is NOT subjective. Canon is 100% objective and is designated entirely by the IP holder. In this case, Disney exercised their right to change official canon right when they took over by making all Expanded Universe material non-canon and rebranding it all as "Legends".
Now, Disney still sells Legends books! It's just noteworthy that according to them, none of it ever really happened in the story. Which is important because it would contradict many aspects of Disney's new media.
Now, you can say that the only thing that separates Disney from fan-fiction is owning the license. And you could make a joke about being right because the Disney stuff feels like fan fiction. Doesn't really matter. Canon is canon. They say what happens in the story, 100% objectively. You don't have to watch it, and not wanting to watch hours of it because you hate it doesn't make it any less canon.
Mind you, I think Disney's canon SUCKS. In my subjective opinion, the canon in Disney's 100% objectively canon world is ass. But I'm not gonna pretend they don't have the right to say what happens in their own story just because I happen to not like it. You have your personal canon for that.
Ulysses 31
Member
Did he do that kind of stuff with Obi-Wan too in the comics? I can see him toying with other Jedi but Obi-Wan seems like a special case to me.
DKehoe
Member
How is it objective? Do they have a legal right to determine what is canon?
BlackTron
Member
Yes.
How else could they have made all of the existing EU non-canon if they can't determine what is canon?
It's implied by known events alone, you hardly need arcane legal knowledge to see this.