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Phil Spencer: Starfield being 30fps is a "creative choice", not a hardware issue.
- Thread starter DryvBy
- Start date
MatrixReloaded101
Member
Imagine … constantly complaining about a problem that has a clear solution.
It’s just silly at this point.
It’s just silly at this point.
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recursive
Member
Maybe but recommended specs are basically xbox sx equivalent. If there is a way to run 60fps on that setup not a good look for phil/Apple guy. My prediction is it will be able to run 60fps but I don't care since I am way above those specs.
DaleinCalgary
Member
Never overestimate Bethesda. It will be lucky to run at 4k 30fps.
Knightime_X
Member
Gamerguy84
Member
I'll try it out on PC and hope to hell it's not creative decision capped.
Dr. Suchong
Member
100% this, the arm chair developers in this thread don't know shit and most probably don't even own the console.
Viking Warrior
Member
This game drops to the low 20's on series X, it is NOT a locked 30 fps.
SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
They're a little above XSX equivalent, but yeah if that spec can do a locked 4K/60 at console equivalent settings then it's probably a bad look. I dunno if that will be the case though, it might have dips.
But like I said PC has a lot of things that will let players get what they want out of it. Gsync/VRR will help cover those dips and tweaking settings and resolution and using DLSS can all help.
Likewise I am probably more than double the recommend specs so I am not that concerned.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
93xfan
Banned
They don’t want to be reasoned with. They want to do some console warring, and one thread about the frame rate was not good enough for the pathetic zealots.If the intention was to avoid having a mode with massive cut-backs to reach 60, then yes of course it's a creative choice.
30 FPS:
60 FPS:
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Little Chicken
Member
I don't care. After playing TotK for 50+ hrs at "30" fps, I'll be fine.
Glad they're just coming out and saying it instead of having to wait and witness whatever FFXVI's frame rate is supposed to be
Glad they're just coming out and saying it instead of having to wait and witness whatever FFXVI's frame rate is supposed to be
That's how PC players optimize games - it's not how development works.
To be clear - I am not debating different framerate targets bring different tradeoffs - but framerate (on a fixed platform at least) 'is' a design choice, you don't pull trade-off levers until you've hit it - you design for it. The framerate/feature options (if any) are done by pulling levers - but that's an aside.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I think you're in the wrong games topic, there's no black bars in Starfield.
It's 30fps locked.
In Cold Blood
Banned
It's due to the engine and open world nature of Creation.
Even on PC I think it can go no more than 60fps?
No one other than those who can't play it will be worried about it being 30fps.
I'm going to be too busy raiding ships, building bases and generally shaking up the universe, to worry about the concerns about the framerate.
Even on PC I think it can go no more than 60fps?
No one other than those who can't play it will be worried about it being 30fps.
I'm going to be too busy raiding ships, building bases and generally shaking up the universe, to worry about the concerns about the framerate.
mansoor1980
Member
i alway loved 30 fps , always and forever
TheAmazingSpiderMan
Member
Phil at it again 
Why does everyone give Tears Of The Kingdom a break then? According to reviews and common sentiment it is one of the greatest games ever made. I mainly play on PC at 4k 60+ fps and used my Switch for the first time in years when that game came out. It honestly wasn't that bad and I didn't even notice after a few minutes. I've played a bunch of games at 30fps on my Steam Deck too. It's not ideal but not really a big deal once your eyes get used to it. Fun games are still fun.
I think they mean creative in a sense that they didn't want to launch a 1080p game in 2023 so it could lock to 60. 4k is a marketing term too. Sure only being 30fps is a huge deal on a gaming dedicated message board but many casuals probably won't care as long as it looks good.
I think they mean creative in a sense that they didn't want to launch a 1080p game in 2023 so it could lock to 60. 4k is a marketing term too. Sure only being 30fps is a huge deal on a gaming dedicated message board but many casuals probably won't care as long as it looks good.
I’m assuming he is trying to say they went with higher fidelity at 30 fps rather than lower at 60. And we all know Bethesda isn’t know for its stellar visuals.
Pasta la Vista
Member
Not even a 4090 will be able to run this at a stable 4k 30, calling it now.
mansoor1980
Member
frame gen says hi
Pasta la Vista
Member
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
People who are trying to defend this maybe don't realize that they are enabling 30 FPS.
Devs are gonna see the muted reaction against this and will use that as ammo to make their games 30 FPS only in the future. They will skimp out and won't even both creating a 60 FPS performance mode in their games and will point out to the defense against Starfield's 30 FPS when criticized.
The people who are defending Xbox for delivering back-to-back 30 FPS games will then have no rights to complain when others also start doing this, and 30 FPS becomes the norm once again.
Devs are gonna see the muted reaction against this and will use that as ammo to make their games 30 FPS only in the future. They will skimp out and won't even both creating a 60 FPS performance mode in their games and will point out to the defense against Starfield's 30 FPS when criticized.
The people who are defending Xbox for delivering back-to-back 30 FPS games will then have no rights to complain when others also start doing this, and 30 FPS becomes the norm once again.
In Cold Blood
Banned
Also said Gamepass on PC grew 50% in the last 12 months. Gamepass is making profit as is Xbox.
Good news.
Good news.
Gamerguy84
Member
Phil Spencer will put out a statement saying "we here you, we here you gamers, our devs are hard at work to deliver a 60fps patch"
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I have zero faith in that bryo engine having any quality reconstruction out of the box that other engines employ.
01011001
Banned
logic?
I have brought it up before, but I'll do it again:
there is no logic behind 30fps being "the way to go" for anything. why not 20fps? saying 20fps is unplayable is simply FACTUALLY wrong... why not 15fps? also playable, many older games ran at 15fps or 20fps, and games that were super popular and critically accalimed too.
people that defend 30fps have an arbitrary line they drew, just like the people like me, that think 60fps should become industry wide standard... except that 60fps makes way more logical sense
no double image effect, and maximising input response and fluidity on 60hz TVs, which is still the dominant type of display people play on.
30fps is ENTRIRELY arbitrarily chosen. I played through the first 2 Disaster Report games on Series X just recently (when emulators still worked in retail mode), and those games are locked to 20fps... I had no issue playing those.
so I therefore declare: 20fps is the best choice for a WELL ROUNDED experience
and you have absolutely no logical argument against that. 20fps is divisible through 60hz and therefore works perfectly on any TV just like 30fps. but IMAGINE what developers could do at 20fps if they just weren't pushed by framerate fanatics like you to push for 30fps! with 30fps we will never get next gen visuals! and I don't care for those "smooth" 30fps, 20fps is perfectly playable and would allow for true next gen games!
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Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
I would tell you, I didn't buy this high end TV:
To play at a measly 1440p in 2023. Drop that damn framerate.
Knightime_X
Member
Nah, 1440p is hugely underrated.I would tell you, I didn't buy this high end TV:
To play at a measly 1440p in 2023. Drop that damn framerate.
If the TV is good, 1440p looks amazing.
X-Wing
Member
Because TOTK is running on a handheld console. Expectations aren't the same as for the 500 USD "Most powerful console".
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
That framerates is going to stutter like ass on an OLED, even worse than an LED.I would tell you, I didn't buy this high end TV:
To play at a measly 1440p in 2023. Drop that damn framerate.
"Just turn on motionflow"
01011001
Banned
I would tell you, I didn't buy this high end TV:
To play at a measly 1440p in 2023. Drop that damn framerate.
4K TVs have such a high pixel density that running at lower than native is finally not that noticeable anymore, and upscaling artifacts are very miniscule now.
so getting a high end 4K OLED should ESPECIALLY be something someone does when they plan on running games at various different resolutions, that includes 1440p
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Love seeing those liars exposed.
01011001
Banned
Tears of the Kingdom
A: doesn't have a first person/third person shooter focus that requires CONSTANT and QUICK camera movement to track enemies.
B: has low input lag thanks to using a double buffer vsync instead of the usual tripple buffer that games like Starfield use.
and C: playing it in handheld mode will mitigate the percieved stutter thanks to a smaller screen.
a smaller screen reduces the gaps between frames. when on a massive 55" TV an enemy moves sideways at high speeds at 30fps, it might end up being a gap of multiple centimeters between the position the enemy was in last frame and the position the enemy is in in the current frame.
now on a small handheld screen this multiple centimeter wide gap from one frame to the next shrinks down to only a few milometers.
and of course... IT'S A TABLET WITH A 2016 MOBILE SOC INSIDE... the fact TotK runs at all is a miracle.
they are a PC first company... a platform where 1080p is still the leading output resolution. so basically, they are releasing a 1080p game in 2023, because the vast majority of players on PC will play either at 1080p or 1440p
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Hoddi
Member
Hard disagree. Upscaling 1440p to 4k is fundamentally no different from upscaling 720p to 1080p at the same DPI. If you can't tell the difference then it simply means you're sitting too far from the TV and didn't need a 4k TV to begin with.
I use a 27" 4k monitor on my PC and the difference between upscaled 1440p vs native is genuinely massive even at this small screen size. It's also the reason that I'm still using an old 1080p plasma with my consoles.
Mister Wolf
Member
1440p doesn't look amazing on a 65".
Rendered Tangent
Banned
I don't think I've played a game at 30fps for years.
I simply won't do it.
I simply won't do it.
01011001
Banned
I never said I can't tell the difference, AND NO IT'S NOT THE SAME.
the higher the pixel density, the less egregious it is to upscale from a lower resolution. if you try to scale 720p up to 1080p you have an uneven scaling, meaning some pixels need to be "wider" than others. this introduces artifacts.
scaling from 1440p to 2160p is also an uneven scale, so some pixels need to be wider than others. BUT because we are talking about WAY MORE pixels here, a "double wide" pixel will stand out way less compared to a single wide pixel, if your resolution is that fucking high.
this is one of the reasons that the Analog Pocket has such a high resolution display. it scales original gameboy and gameboy color perfectly, but it also scales GBA really well, even tho it's an uneven scaling. but it isn't that noticeable due to the high pixel density of the Analog Pocket's screen.
if you scale from 720p to 1080p, the TV or the console have way less pixels to work with, and with less pixels to work with you will have way more obvious unevenness in the scaling.
if you had a, let's say, 32k 50" display. so a display with 30720x17280 pixels. ANY image displayed on that screen would look like the native resolution of the display, because there would be such an enormous amount of pixels to devide any give resolution into, that the image would almost look like you used a super high definition printer and printed out the image. integer scaling would basically become completely useless, as any scaling would look like integer scaling.
such a display would be perfect for any resolution you throw at it, as its pixel grid would be so dense that scaling artifacts would not exist on it.
and while 4K is far from such perfect scaling, it's still markedly better at scaling from lower resolutions than a 1440p or 1080p screen
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Helghan
Member
You didn’t read the thread before replying?
GenericUser
Member
Of course it's an "artistic choice". If the artists put less detail into the game world, there would be less to render and calculate and thus the framerate would be higher. It's not wrong per se, but a bullshit statement anyway.
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