You sure about that
I have the PS5 Portable but I'm not supposed to show anyone but I had to because it's so Cooli mean....the meme is going to become real
PS5Pro leaked image No CLICKBAIT!!!! share and subscribe
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PS5 Pro Specs Leak are Real, Releasing Holiday 2024(Insider Gaming)
- Thread starter jm89
- Start date
asdasdasdbb
Member
I actually think it will be using the same case as the Slim.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Personally look forward to playing the next COD at 4k PSSR 120 fps
Moridianae
Member
I agree.
I think, again, a lot of people have underestimated just how much AI can do to alleviate various things, improve performance and circumvent what might have once been considered "bottlenecks" in times past.
I'm not saying Sony's take on it will be the end-all, be-all, but I think it'll be a tantalizing glimpse into the not-so-distant future for both PC and consoles.
A.I. and what it can contribute will factor heavily into PS6, Nextbox and maybe even Nintendo.
Lagspike_exe
Member
Yes please. I play MW3 at 120 FPS and while it runs great in the normal mode, the visual hit is jarring. Ground War runs worse and at even lower res. I think Pro should clean this up beautifully.
Physiognomonics
Member
PSSR is going to start a new generation of glorious AI upscaling on consoles. We won't go back to shitty FSR after that. And Microsoft better get ready their tools in order to compete against Sony exclusive PSSR solution. This going to be a software race and Sony already are years ahead of MS.
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Don Carlo
Member
That's a ways away, surely. The console market is currently settling for 30 FPS lol
Xtib81
Member
Fingers crossed but we know nothing about PSSR so why is everybody acting like it's gonna rival DLSS right off the bat?
Physiognomonics
Member
Did I talk about DLSS here? DLSS isn't on console.
Xtib81
Member
You didn't but you assume that it's gonna be better than FSR and you talk about 'gloious AI upscaling'. How would you know? What are you basing your assumptions on? Nothing.
winjer
Gold Member
It was a big mistake that Sony decided not to have support for DP4A on the PS5 from the start.
Now we have to wait until the PS5 Pro for an AI pass with temporal upscalers.
Physiognomonics
Member
Actually we already have a screenshot. PSSR is already miles better than FSR there. And we know AI uspcaling currently rules all others solutions, specifically FSR.
MasterCornholio
Member
We have a screen shot?
I must have missed this because its the first time I'm hearing about it.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Uh oh someone messed up because I don’t think this stuff is public knowledge yet
What’s that I hear?
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
A screenshot proves absolutely nothing and you know this.
MasterCornholio
Member
Uh oh someone messed up because I don’t think this stuff is public knowledge yet
What’s that I hear?
So it's true?
I want to see.
Bojji
Member
This screenshot is shit:
Most important thing of uspcalers is motion quality, both DLSS and XESS took some time to get where they are now with their quality:
We will see how PSSR looks day one.
Xbox can run XESS in theory ^
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MasterCornholio
Member
This screenshot is shit:
Most important thing of uspcalers is motion quality, both DLSS and XESS took some time to get where they are now with their quality:
We will see how PSSR looks day one.
Xbox can run XESS in theory ^
Thank you.
It does look better out of the three. But I really can't tell how good it is with that screenshot quality.
MisterXDTV
Member
There's no way PSSR is not going to kill AMD FSR 2.2 right off the bat. It doesn't even have to match DLSS 2 right away. Maybe it would be asking too much being Sony's first attempt.
But the software will keep improving in time
But the software will keep improving in time
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Bojji
Member
Yeah, FSR 2.2 will be beaten for sure.
We still don't know how 3.1 will look like and that rumored Ai powered version.
No matter the quality at launch, it will get better with time and will reach (current) DLSS quality for sure at some point.
Roronoa Zoro
Gold Member
I mean PS4 pro and slim came out same year or a year apart right?
winjer
Gold Member
LOL, the issues with any upscaler are not seen in static images. Especially FSR2.
It's when there is any movement, causing shimmering and disocclusion artifacts.
Another thing to consider is that PSSR will only be out by years end, when the Pro releases. So any comparisons made now, are pointless.
Sony, AMD, Intel and Nvidia will continue to improve their upscalers.
FSR3.1 is supposed to release in a couple of months. Intel just released XeSS 1.3 with massive improvements.
It's when there is any movement, causing shimmering and disocclusion artifacts.
Another thing to consider is that PSSR will only be out by years end, when the Pro releases. So any comparisons made now, are pointless.
Sony, AMD, Intel and Nvidia will continue to improve their upscalers.
FSR3.1 is supposed to release in a couple of months. Intel just released XeSS 1.3 with massive improvements.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
There are other things being passed aroundSo it's true?
I want to see.
When I said something a week ago or so I was expecting something to break it was examples of PSSR in action
Imtjnotu
Member
well soon enough we will have a pssr leak
Sony is using AI in their TV upscaling tech and it is the best in the TV market.
For sure gaming application is different but Sony has lot of internal know-how on AI upscaling and they can leverage such knowledge to jumpstart a competitive AI upscaling hardware and software in gaming.
For sure gaming application is different but Sony has lot of internal know-how on AI upscaling and they can leverage such knowledge to jumpstart a competitive AI upscaling hardware and software in gaming.
Physiognomonics
Member
When you know what to look at (Clank's face) you see this screenshot actually shows great results for PSSR. Besides one of MLID's host saw the native screenshot and was also impressed by it. The only negative he could say was to wait for in motion results. But we know FSR2 fare even worse in motion where image become complex with transparencies and such. And the pic showed simple static scene without complex effects.
Exactly this. FSR2 is even worse in motion. Without AI upscaling FSR will always lag behind the others. This is the reality sadly and what AI uspcaling taught us those last years.
In theory Xbox can do tons of things with its hardware, for the PR department and their fans at least. But the reality is unfortunately very different. Software dev seems complicated for MS and its studios. They can't even optimize properly to make 60fps the default in their own games. And people are asking them AI upscaling miracles with the weak int-8 hardware the Xbox have?
MasterCornholio
Member
Yes I have no doubt its going to be better than FSR2. But that's a terribly low bar to begin with. I would much rather see the comparisons with the best ones on the market.
I believe that MS also have something in place but I'm not sure what happened to ML on Series consoles .
I'm gonna need for someone to leak the screens by the end of the week lolUh oh someone messed up because I don’t think this stuff is public knowledge yet
What’s that I hear?
Edit: well that was quicker than expected lol
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Mr Moose
Member
Is there a better pic? That shit is tiny, but it does look like it has better detail on the right side.This screenshot is shit:
If it's close to DLSS then it's going to be really good.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
A couple of things to consider (and that I think everyone should consider)
1. While PSSR will debut with the PS5pro, make no mistake, it has been in development for a while. And what I find puzzling, is that people seem to forget (or not grasp) that what we call AI, is just a practical implementation of a very specific processor function. Kinda like how FP32 calculations are best for graphics. Basically, what we call AI, is just fundamentally 8-bit matrix calculations. You can basically run whatever AI model you want, be that image enhancing, prediction systems, large body complex simulations....etc on anything that preferably has dedicated matrix hardware.
What this means, is that you can use an Nvidia GPU or an intel GPU to train an AI algorithm that would work on a PS5pro GPU.
2. No matter how PSSR is out of the gate, it would look and perform better than anything non-AI accelerated reconstruction model.
3. I think people are sleeping on just how important PSSR is/was to the entire design of the PS5pro. It very well could be that they expect devs to internally run their games at 1080p but use PSSR to get that to 60fps and 4K. And if we start looking at the PS5pro like that, then it's an overpowered console (GPU-wise) for that feat. And if PSSR can come even remotely close to what DLSS can do in its DLSS 4K performance mode, then that's going to be really something.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
There is a clip out and about, was very surprised someone did not leak it yet unless there is some fear of it being a controlled leak looking to execute whoever leaks it first
Should be a fun week ahead I guess lol
ChiefDada
Gold Member
I am most excited for the PS5 Pro graphics mode Sony is pushing for because it basically requires for devs to reach 4k via ML instead of native. This is such a major resource saver even before considering the traditional GPU and RT uplift. Frame time tends to scale linearly with pixel count for most games. For example, TLOU pt. 1 native 4k is typically 30-40fps but jumps to 75-80fps at native 1440p. And ML upscaling should cost virtually nothing in context (sub 1ms cost in exchange for gaining >16ms).
The Lumen in the Land of Nanite UE5 demo shown on PS5 ran at 1440p and I thought the image quality was sublime. And that was just using Epic's TSR which isn't hw accelerated. It's going to be amazing and will prove to be a much better mid gen uplift than PS4 Pro.
The Lumen in the Land of Nanite UE5 demo shown on PS5 ran at 1440p and I thought the image quality was sublime. And that was just using Epic's TSR which isn't hw accelerated. It's going to be amazing and will prove to be a much better mid gen uplift than PS4 Pro.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
hate to break it to you but even DLSS has a big cost. i posted my findings earlier in the thread, but its not 'virtually nothing'.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Feel free to share whatever you're referring to, but Sony's own docs estimate 2ms cost for PSSR upscaling from 1080p to 4k. I imagine 1440p baseline will be significantly less.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Well, look at it this way, the lower the base frame rate, the lesser the cost relatively speaking. If a game is 60fps at 1080p on the PS5 Pro, adding 2ms of rendering time will take it from 1 frame every 16.66ms to 1 frame every 18.66ms. This means going from 60fps down to 53.57 fps (let's round it down to 53fps). That's an 11.6% (12% rounded up) cost in raw fps so it most definitely isn't free.
2ms represents a higher percentage of a lower frame time. Take Alan Wake 2 for example. At 1080p, the game runs at 150fps (6.66ms) at 1080p on a 4090.
At 4K DLSS Performance (1080p), we're down to 120fps.
Now, that sounds like a lot. Our frame rate drops by 20%. However, this is only an additional 1.66ms of rendering time lol. You go from 6.66ms to 8.33ms.
So, a game on the Pro running at 100fps at 1080p will run at 83.33fps with PSSR upscaling to 4K. 17fps isn't free at all, but at the same time, it's not insanely expensive either. Its cost at higher frame rates is higher but if your fps is very high to begin with, it's not a big problem.
Conversely, going from 30fps (33.33ms) at 1080p down to 28.3fps (35.33ms) by upscaling to 4K with PSSR sounds much less egregious, but you're also below 30fps and outside of the VRR window despite only losing 5% of your fps.
2ms makes perfect sense. I also thought it sounded unbelievably low but nah.
Edit: Also need to look at FSR (though I guess it's less relevant since PSSR is more like DLSS anyway).
1080p native for the 7900 XTX gives us 128.7fps (7.77ms) fps.
Enabling FSR2 Performance costs quite a bit more compared to the 4090 with DLSS.
We add 2.23ms of rendering time going from 128.7 (7.77ms) down to 100fps (10ms), a similar cost to PSSR.
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Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Member
the thing is this should be compared to the cost of rendering at 4k not at 1080p.Well, look at it this way, the lower the base frame rate, the lesser the cost relatively speaking. If a game is 60fps at 1080p on the PS5 Pro, adding 2ms of rendering time will take it from 1 frame every 16.66ms to 1 frame every 18.66ms. This means going from 60fps down to 53.57 fps (let's round it down to 54fps). That's an 11% cost in raw fps so it most definitely isn't free.
2ms represents a higher percentage of a lower frame time. Take Alan Wake 2 for example. At 1080p, the game runs at 150fps (6.66ms) at 1080p on a 4090.
At 4K DLSS Performance (1080p), we're down to 120fps.
Now, that sounds like a lot. Our frame rate drops by 20%. However, this is only an additional 1.66ms of rendering time lol. You go from 6.66ms to 8.33ms.
So, a game on the Pro running at 100fps at 1080p will run at 83.33fps with PSSR upscaling to 4K. 17fps isn't free at all, but at the same time, it's not insanely expensive either. Its cost at higher frame rates is higher but if your fps is very high to begin with, it's not a big problem.
Conversely, going from 30fps (33.33ms) at 1080p down to 28.3fps (35.33ms) by upscaling to 4K with PSSR sounds much less egregious, but you're also below 30fps and outside of the VRR window despite only losing 5% of your fps.
2ms makes perfect sense. I also thought it sounded unbelievably low but nah.
Rendering at 4k vs 1080p probably costs far far more than merely upscaling which by comparison is free.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
You aren't wrong, but when Sony says that it has a 2ms cost at 1080p upscaled to 4K, it's compared to the rendering time at 1080p.
Here is the data regardless.
Native 4K.
DLSS Performance. You go from 71fps (14ms) at native 4K to 120fps (8.33ms) with 4K DLSS Performance. You shave off a huge 5.66ms of rendering time. That's a lot. You could add a many things with another 5.66ms.
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nosoynadie22
Member
did you see something?
ChiefDada
Gold Member
You aren't wrong, but when Sony says that it has a 2ms cost at 1080p upscaled to 4K, it's compared to the rendering time at 1080p.
Here is the data regardless.
Native 4K.
DLSS Performance. You go from 71fps (14ms) at native 4K to 120fps (8.33ms) with 4K DLSS Performance. You shave off a huge 5.66ms of rendering time. That's a lot. You could add a many things with another 5.66ms.
Yeah I was more so analyzing native 4k vs a potential PSSR 1440p upscale with similar results to DLSS quality where 1440p upscale can look so close enough to native 4k that people wouldn't be bothered to mull over differences. So in your AW chart illustration we have dlss quality at 99fps or 10ms vs 71fps or 14ms. As you alluded to, 4ms especially for a 4090 gpu is like an eternity it can get a great bit of workload executed.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
SlimySnake
Can you run Cyberpunk 2077 at 1080p and then at 4K DLSS Performance and post the results? I'm trying to find DLSS Performance results with 3080-4070-tier cards but it's proving surprisingly difficult.I wanna see how much rendering time 4K DLSS Performance adds compared to 1080p on a 3080.
yurinka
Member
It will be more expensive than $500. My question is if it's going to be more than $700 or not.
Concord will be a major first party game. Pretty likely it will sell even faster than Helldivers 2 (so also faster than GoWR, Spider-Man 2 and any previous Sony first party game).
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
It won't be $700 or even sniff it. $500-600. I can guarantee it and put my Gaf account on it.
yurinka
Member
Consider that component costs have been increasing a lot, so base PS5 must be selling at a nice loss. Sony wants to improve their profitability, so very likely won't sell the Pro at a loss, or will try to sell it with a minimal loss.
In fact, Sony may end increasing the price of base PS5 again.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
no longer have cyberpunk installed. lots of games released over the last few weeks and cyberpunk had to go.
I wanna see how much rendering time 4K DLSS Performance adds compared to 1080p on a 3080.
i have callisto. tlou1, and suicide squad currently installed. but i compiled results on alan wake, callisto, and ss already a few weeks ago. 20-35% hit compared to native 1080p. its definitely not free and definitely not 2 ms despite AMD's own claims of 2ms.
Another thing to consider is the CPU bottleneck which rendered SS, Star Wars and Dragons Dogma 2 dlss tests invalid because i kept hitting the cpu limits on my i7-11700k with rt on. if sony wants to enable rt effects with that 10% cpu boost on a zen 2 cpu, whatever ML solution they have up their sleeves wont save them.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Can you link the results? Also, the document stated ~2ms so it's in the ballpark. Alan Wake 2 shows 2.23ms for the 7900 XTX which is close enough I guess. I'd like to see results with lower-end GPUs though. 4090s and 7900 XTX aren't exactly representative of mid-tier cards that will be around the Pro's performance in late 2024-early 2025.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I did in the quote of my own post in my reply to you above.
i think people see 2 ms and think the cost is negligible when its anything but. 20-35% is not negligible.
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HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Yes over a week ago, more than one thing