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Rottenwatch: The Marvels (2023)

kruis

Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
Another huge factor is that few people care about these C-list characters. Disney should have made more movies with their most popular characters (Iron Man, X-Men, Avengers, Daredevil, Fantastic Four, Hulk, etc) instead of pushing C-list characters that only hard core Marvel fans know about. Only Disney wanted to save money so they wanted to save money by hiring unknown actors to play unknown comic book characters instead of paying Robert Downey Jr and Chris Evans lots of money to play Iron Man or Captain America again.
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
Disney's biggest error has been to care about what's being said on social media. If you believe what's being said on the internet, then the superhero genre is as popular with women as it is with men, and that you can easily make lots of money by making movies that FINALLY appeal to that underserved female market for comic book movies.

The truth is of course that women don't much like superhero movies. And the ones they do like are the ones the men like too.
What women like about th3 superhero genre is seeing brash, asshole Tony Stark, the most alpha of alpha males, slowly get tamed by Pepper Potts and then die to save his own kid. THAT gets the ladies.

They want Thor, a brash, asshole, alpha male, to fall for a a woman they can see themselves in, and then cry over their tragic relationship as he cuts himself off from all other women for a chick he banged maybe once.

They want Cap, a honest, straight shooting, build like a God, guy to fall for a woman and then never get with another until he can literally take back time.

Virtually no adult woman wants to see women flying around, punching space demons, getting with beta males.
 

OmegaSupreme

advanced basic bitch
Virtually no adult woman wants to see women flying around, punching space demons, getting with beta males.
They haven't even been getting with beta males. They haven't been getting with males period. Or women. None of these characters have yet had any kind of love interest to my knowledge. Which is something else missing. It's been done badly in the mcu. Check Hulk and Black Widow but women go ape shit over romance and men like their superheroes to bang.
 

Jinzo Prime

Member
What women like about th3 superhero genre is seeing brash, asshole Tony Stark, the most alpha of alpha males, slowly get tamed by Pepper Potts and then die to save his own kid. THAT gets the ladies.
RDJ as Tony Stark is the only reason my mom started watching the MCU. His act seemed to resonate with women across generational lines, and Disney doesn't seem to understand that.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
What women like about th3 superhero genre is seeing brash, asshole Tony Stark, the most alpha of alpha males, slowly get tamed by Pepper Potts and then die to save his own kid. THAT gets the ladies.

They want Thor, a brash, asshole, alpha male, to fall for a a woman they can see themselves in, and then cry over their tragic relationship as he cuts himself off from all other women for a chick he banged maybe once.

They want Cap, a honest, straight shooting, build like a God, guy to fall for a woman and then never get with another until he can literally take back time.

Virtually no adult woman wants to see women flying around, punching space demons, getting with beta males.
I think when it comes to media, people also ground themselves in general comparing fiction to real life too. But your point makes sense as well as you talked about the personality side of it.

So even though it's just a bunch of superhero stuff made up by writers where the most powerful thing in the universe could be a female toddler in diapers, people will still like or dislike stuff depending how believeable it is. I dont mean believing whether or not someone in spandex can fly or lift a mountain, but just a sense of how corny it is and how inclusive/diverse all this is stretching out to be.

So when men and women see The Marvels characters, there isnt a draw for ticket sales for men like Gal Gadot, and I think holistically women like seeing good looking men and women too on screen. So scratch off the Hollywood looks appeal.

Never ever base a product on social media. Find out their real intentions. It's like dating sites. Every women will say a funny dude good with kids is the most important thing in life. All I know is when a bunch of us at work chatted dating years back, they all said that. But drill down to the Income Bracket (when Match.com used to have a field to tell people how much money you make) every female coworker gunned for dudes who make $100,000+ brackets. Except one who said the $75,000-100,000 was ok. I'd ask for laughs what if the guy was a good dude but was in the $35,000-50,000 or $50,000-75,000 brackets and they'd all grimace like any guy in those tiers were dirtbag losers. And guess what? It worked. I decided to fill in the income bracket which at the time (I always fill in stuff honestly) in the $100,000-125,000 bracket and suddenly my view counter shot up overnight. I should had done this instead of leaving the field blank from the beginning!

Getting back to the movie, whats left is a bunch of no-name characters a lot of people have never of before (Kamala Khan etc...) and most people arent going to believe or seem interested in girl power because they know in real life men are stronger.

It's like sports. Ok, a championship game can sell out a stadium for a womens league game. But regular season nobody watches, not even women (ie. womens league soccer, basketball and hockey). Its so bad the mens pro leagues help fund and run them. That's because the best players are dudes.

And people take that knowledge and seeing female superhero characters battling it out like they are as strong as a giant ripped Hulk makes people just yawn this is even more stupid than the original spandex storyline to begin with.
 
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MayauMiao

Member
Forbes' Disney shill copium:

“Justice for The Marvels!” I cry, as I watch every news story about it torch its performance. I liked the film, I thought it was fun.


I cried too when I saw the second week box office.

Just look at my tears 😂
 

Fake

Member
Another huge factor is that few people care about these C-list characters. Disney should have made more movies with their most popular characters (Iron Man, X-Men, Avengers, Daredevil, Fantastic Four, Hulk, etc) instead of pushing C-list characters that only hard core Marvel fans know about. Only Disney wanted to save money so they wanted to save money by hiring unknown actors to play unknown comic book characters instead of paying Robert Downey Jr and Chris Evans lots of money to play Iron Man or Captain America again.

Its very clear they know this. Why else would they put a clip with Iron-Man and C.America in this movie at all, just for a few seconds?

Just for the single fact that people are talking about this movie because 'Beast' from X-Men showing up like 4 seconds of the whole movie baffles me.
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Another huge factor is that few people care about these C-list characters. Disney should have made more movies with their most popular characters (Iron Man, X-Men, Avengers, Daredevil, Fantastic Four, Hulk, etc) instead of pushing C-list characters that only hard core Marvel fans know about. Only Disney wanted to save money so they wanted to save money by hiring unknown actors to play unknown comic book characters instead of paying Robert Downey Jr and Chris Evans lots of money to play Iron Man or Captain America again.
Go big or go home strategy.

They can only make so many Iron Man, Avengers movies at any given time. So to fill the gaps, you go to B-tier characters. And when there's more gaps you go to C-tier characters.

I'm sure in their board room meetings, they have some master plan to release a superhero movie once every month or two to cover all 365 days of the year. So at any given time when someone looks at their local cinema listings, there's always a Marvel movie playing.

What they are trying to do is what companies like Coke and Pepsi do. Have as many cans of pop and potato chips everywhere..... stores, gas stations, vending machines, stadiums, schools etc....

Saturation goal = 100% coverage.
 

dave_d

Member
Go big or go home strategy.

They can only make so many Iron Man, Avengers movies at any given time. So to fill the gaps, you go to B-tier characters. And when there's more gaps you go to C-tier characters.

I'm sure in their board room meetings, they have some master plan to release a superhero movie once every month or two to cover all 365 days of the year. So at any given time when someone looks at their local cinema listings, there's always a Marvel movie playing.

What they are trying to do is what companies like Coke and Pepsi do. Have as many cans of pop and potato chips everywhere..... stores, gas stations, vending machines, stadiums, schools etc....

Saturation goal = 100% coverage.
Well then, somebody should explain to them how much it actually costs coke to make a can of tonic. It's a lot easier when it costs you about a dime per can and you get $1.50.
 
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Fake

Member
Yeah, the whole "shame men into watching female football and never try to actually call out other women to support it" strategy has always looked insane to me.

I must guess this is a social media thing. Males support more the female football than females, but somehow females football players keep teasing men for reasons unknow.

Sames as movies. Almost 70% of males watched this movie, but somehow they push this rhetoric of 'males don't wanna see' or 'males are to blame'.
 
Even shills like Grace Randloph is admitting that part of the success for movies like Wonder Woman is the "Male Gaze". . I guarantee you if the Marvels have a Carol Danvers that looked like this have marketed the movie based on it they would have had much bigger box office.
81rCMof-u1RBQ1UMWJj3e4PDys6ayhcLUaAWk8vsw-tme_5HyZrXh8-PqJxFag4Rxupj6AidNjotrDp94VZWkFNwpxD38hDmAOlfFpuUS0zdcUCMOVGs9hBc5wgastX5lLhoVOzcsw=s0
 

FunkMiller

Gold Member
Even shills like Grace Randloph is admitting that part of the success for movies like Wonder Woman is the "Male Gaze".

To be fair to Grace (and I can't believe I'm typing that) she's been pretty upfront about the fact you can't just make superhero movies starring a bunch of girl boss women, and expect it do to well. Nobody wants to see that.

She's made the very accurate comparison to Barbie multiple times - where if studios make movies based on popular female franchises, they can bring in the female audience and make billions. But if you try to change male franchises to female ones, it fails.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
To be fair to Grace (and I can't believe I'm typing that) she's been pretty upfront about the fact you can't just make superhero movies starring a bunch of girl boss women, and expect it do to well. Nobody wants to see that.

She's made the very accurate comparison to Barbie multiple times - where if studios make movies based on popular female franchises, they can bring in the female audience and make billions. But if you try to change male franchises to female ones, it fails.
Exactly.

Despite some people in the world thinking men and women are equal in everything but looks, they are wrong. Men and women think different.

It'd be like a company trying to womenize the car repair industry hoping for more women to work on cars. Isnt going to happen. Or leagues trying to make women's UFC or boxing as popular as the guys where the sales and viewership of womens matches are just as popular 50/50 between men and women.

Not going to happen.

Superheroes and comics are a male kind of thing. I totally get what they are trying to do in modern day politics and diversity and hoping to expand the pie where maybe they can get tons of women to buy in. But it's a tough slog.

Although it can be done. Computers have historically been a male geeky kind of industry, but Apple made it hip and slick so women bought into the design instead of a stodgy beige box.
 
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jason10mm

Gold Member
Although it can be done. Computers have historically been a male geeky kind of industry, but Apple made it hip and slick so women bought into the design instead of a stodgy beige box.
See, I'd say Apple took away all the computer hardware stuff. You can't really do shit to an apple product like you can a PC or android in terms of physical alterations or deep software settings. Women want the thing TO JUST WORK, it's men who want to get inside it and tweak everything. So what Apple did was just strip away all the intimidating male oriented stuff.

Now granted, I LOVE the fact that I can just buy a game and it WORKS without having to hack the config.sys and autoexec.bat files to free up some ram or get some third party joystick to work, much less have to dive into 5th level video settings to adjust the color palette to eek out an extra FPS, but I still want the option to do so.

Anyway, despite internet feminazi shills claiming the opposite, I feel that there are fundamental differences in how 90+% of women view a product versus 90+% of men. The appeal is different, the type of storytelling has to be different, the presentation and marketing has to be different. Crossover can certainly happen, but it's often stuff like shoehorning Arwen into LOTR just so the ladies can swoon over Aragorn (though I'd argue that if Arwen was never shown it wouldn't have changed anything, just Viggos performance and talking about her a bit would have achieved the same end result).

What you almost NEVER see is something like Romancing the Stone, a female romance with male elements inserted. Far more common for the male product to have female service, or be called out by the shills for failing the Bechdel test or some other retarded thing, than to see a straight female project suddenly have an assassin subplot, random fight scenes, or a detour into a strip club. And certainly no one complains if Steel Magnolias (good grief, my references are ancient :p ) lacks those elements.
 
Even shills like Grace Randloph is admitting that part of the success for movies like Wonder Woman is the "Male Gaze". . I guarantee you if the Marvels have a Carol Danvers that looked like this have marketed the movie based on it they would have had much bigger box office.
81rCMof-u1RBQ1UMWJj3e4PDys6ayhcLUaAWk8vsw-tme_5HyZrXh8-PqJxFag4Rxupj6AidNjotrDp94VZWkFNwpxD38hDmAOlfFpuUS0zdcUCMOVGs9hBc5wgastX5lLhoVOzcsw=s0

Not if the movie, actress, and character sucks. Captain Marvel's first movie made $1Billion. Everyone realized then that they fucked up. Then after seeing her more recent appearances in Endgame and so on, we realized she's a very 2D character that we barely know or care about. Ms. Marvel was a mediocre show and didn't really cause any excitement. It just wasn't good. So combine those three points and you will see that 2/3's of the movie will completely suck. It doesn't matter how hot a super hero is, if all components of the story are shit and full of pandering bullshit, no one is going to see it.

The reason why everyone went and saw Wonder Woman was because it was tied to Batman and Superman. WW84 was not good, and a third one may have done better than The Marvel's, but wouldn't have had the draw the original had.
 

Reizo Ryuu

Gold Member
The shirtless hot men effect is real and the fact Disney is unaware of it baffles me.
I've seen every twilight movie (don't ask, I was deceived into watching them) in theaters on the opening days, so they audience was like 90% women at those sold out showings.
I vividly remember in the third movie, where jacob (the werewolf boy) takes off his shirt so the girl can dry herself off, because every single women audibly gasped, like a collective hive minded gasp, and the woman next to me actually reached for the fucking screen while saying "omg jacob!"....safe to say it was a real eye opener to the expression horniness of women when they think they are only amongst other women; they fucking love their hot shirtless dudes.
 

FunkMiller

Gold Member
Superheroes and comics are a male kind of thing. I totally get what they are trying to do in modern day politics and diversity and hoping to expand the pie where maybe they can get tons of women to buy in. But it's a tough slog.

The truth in all of this is that there are plenty of movie genres that women love, but the studios are too fucking lazy to put time and effort into making those movies - which is ironically because it's a really fucking misogynistic place, full of fat old men in corporate offices.

So we get these terrible crowbarred female characters in superhero movies that none of us are interested in, instead of a more balanced movie field where both sexes are catered for equally.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
The truth in all of this is that there are plenty of movie genres that women love, but the studios are too fucking lazy to put time and effort into making those movies - which is ironically because it's a really fucking misogynistic place, full of fat old men in corporate offices.

So we get these terrible crowbarred female characters in superhero movies that none of us are interested in, instead of a more balanced movie field where both sexes are catered for equally.
I get what youre saying.

The funny thing is the movies women enjoy (romance, rom-com etc...) are the kinds of movies with low budgets. They wont likely be Avengers kind of hits, but the risk in losses will be lower if it's a bomb. But if it's a hit, the ROI will be sky high. Maybe not in terms of $$$, but in terms of %.
 

Saber

Gold Member
Yooo 11 pages of discussion about this new MCU movie. Seems like gaffers love it and it's a real success on their behalf, amirite?

Didn't the same thing happened to Velma? I remember someone here saying "yeah I see alot of guys here and other places talking about it, so its definitivelly a popular thing". Never heard anyone talking about Velma anyomore.

Thats because the discussion, reviews and dogpilling are hundreds of times more entertaiment than the movie itself. Thats how bad those things are.
 
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DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Didn't the same thing happened to Velma? I remember someone here saying "yeah I see alot of guys here and other places talking about it, so its definitivelly a popular thing". Never heard about Velma anyomre.

Thats because the discussion, reviews and dogpilling are hundreds of times more entertaiment than the movie itself.
The meta around these shit films are always far more entertaining than the creatively bankrupt product they produce.
 
Didn't the same thing happened to Velma? I remember someone here saying "yeah I see alot of guys here and other places talking about it, so its definitivelly a popular thing". Never heard anyone talking about Velma anyomore.

Thats because the discussion, reviews and dogpilling are hundreds of times more entertaiment than the movie itself. Thats how bad those things are.
That was just banter on my side.
Everybody saw this flop coming miles away and I'm still wrapping my head around how the same company released The Winter Soldier 9 years ago and went to this shit from there.

Funny thing is, Sony is doing the exact same mistake with their Madame Web shit that Marvel just did.
Choosing three (Sony is even doing four) random ass one-dimensional female characters of various ethnicities for diversity purposes as leads and hoping that the female empowerment and diversity aspect is going to make them big bucks.

aAD5ByZ_700b.jpg
 
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The issue is that Disney and these SJWs, don't understand that humans are sexually driven, by nature. If we weren't, we would go extinct.
Most companies have used attractive men and women, throughout many decades, to attract attention from consumers.
But for some stupid reason, companies like Disney now think we live in an asexual society.
I said years ago that the woke types want a genderless, androgynous society and I'm getting proven right.
 

FunkMiller

Gold Member
Choosing three (Sony is even doing four) random ass one-dimensional female characters of various ethnicities for diversity purposes as leads and hoping that the female empowerment and diversity aspect is going to make them big bucks.

I’m gonna bet Madam Web does better than The Marvels, as long as Sydney Sweeney is featured in a skin tight black spider suit as much as possible. If they don’t pivot to pushing that aspect after the Marvels disaster, they’re idiots. Sony aren’t as bad with the political agendas, so I hope someone sees sense in making the movie about Syd’s bangers as much as possible.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I said years ago that the woke types want a genderless, androgynous society and I'm getting proven right.
Of course they do.

They cant even figure out their own sexuality.

And for the ones who know what they want, nobody wants them back because they are weird people and fugly to boot. In life, anyone can hook up. Even fat and hairy people. My parents married and had kids and trust me they are no lookers. But when it's combined with bad attitudes who only care about political stuff it's a total turn off. Thats why wokey people get laughed at so much as they all try to be popular on social media craving attention.

And nothing would make them happier if everyone else whose loving life being themselves with good friends and fam get torn down to their crappy rung on the ladder.

It's kind of like rich guy poor guy. Some poor people just love it when richer people get taxed more. They dont like that other people have more money.
 
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DKehoe

Member
Didn't the same thing happened to Velma? I remember someone here saying "yeah I see alot of guys here and other places talking about it, so its definitivelly a popular thing". Never heard anyone talking about Velma anyomore.

Thats because the discussion, reviews and dogpilling are hundreds of times more entertaiment than the movie itself. Thats how bad those things are.
A lot of the culture war stuff exists in a bubble. To people within it stuff like Velma is a big deal and is either inspirational or a sign of society crumbling. But most people either don’t know about or don’t care about that shit.
 

AgatonSax

Member
People can barely afford to heat their homes, and UK out here spending taxpayer money on net loss turds.
What does it matter if they’re nett loss turds? They subsidise 25% to get the money spent in the U.K. to a bunch of professionals who then pay 40%+ tax.

The U.K. gets a huge investment from studios. Warners is expanding Leavesden to film all DCU movies there as well. It’s probably the least stupid thing this government does.
 
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DeepEnigma

Gold Member
What does it matter if they’re nett loss turds? They subsidise 25% to get the money spent in the U.K. to a bunch of professionals who then pay 40%+ tax.

The U.K. gets a huge investment from studios. Warners is expanding Leavesden to film all DCU movies there as well. It’s probably the least stupid thing this government does.
Ok.
 

DeafTourette

Perpetually Offended
New Rockstars interview with Iman Villani... She is so cute and her personality reminds me of me! I get excited very easily and I love theorizing! She's writing the new Ms. Marvel comic (I forgot about that) ... She's an actual fangirl! So the Kamala in the movie is basically just Iman... Only Iman doesn't actually have powers. LoL

 

bitbydeath

Member
New Rockstars interview with Iman Villani... She is so cute and her personality reminds me of me! I get excited very easily and I love theorizing! She's writing the new Ms. Marvel comic (I forgot about that) ... She's an actual fangirl! So the Kamala in the movie is basically just Iman... Only Iman doesn't actually have powers. LoL


Hopefully she can write it without putting her own insecurities on display, that’s what a lot of the woke BS comes down too.
 

Reizo Ryuu

Gold Member
She's an actual fangirl! So the Kamala in the movie is basically just Iman
This is why I don't get the whole "girlboss stronk women" arguments for this movie, she's literally the most "normal" person in the movie who turns into a bumbling fangirl when she's around carol, spectrum is almost the same since carol is her "long lost aunt", and she's mostly figuring out her powers on the go, and carol herself is the least "boss" she's been yet (including avengers and the first movie) since she softens up around those two.
 

kruis

Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
What does it matter if they’re nett loss turds? They subsidise 25% to get the money spent in the U.K. to a bunch of professionals who then pay 40%+ tax.

The U.K. gets a huge investment from studios. Warners is expanding Leavesden to film all DCU movies there as well. It’s probably the least stupid thing this government does.

Do you really think the UK government should give the entertainment industry a preferred status by paying a quarter of the costs of all tv/movie productions made in the UK while fucking over most other businesses? I think this is a major reason why modern movies have become so crazy expensive, because the more Hollywood (artificially) inflates the costs of a movie, the more they'll get back from the UK. Hollywood bookkeepers are famous for their lies and this scheme makes it very enticing to fake investments in order to get a much higher ROI.


If you watched Secret Invasion, you knew that lousy, cheap looking show couldn't have cost $212 million. People here were accusing Disney of money laundering. I thnk they're completely ripping off the UK government and stealing money from UK tax payers.
 
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EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
How so? They’ll get at best 50% of the boxoffice. Now add in the marketing budget. It might make money when it goes to streaming but that’s doubtful.
That's a general rule of thumb, yeah, but Songbirds had a $20+ million German tax credit and other deals, per Deadline, so it will be profitable:

"
After The Marvels posted a franchise low for the Marvel Cinematic Universe of $46.1M, isn’t Songbirds and Snakes also a misfire? Not necessarily, and at a $100M-plus production cost, 65% of which is funded by foreign sales, with another $20M+ in German tax credits, the Lionsgate Francis Lawrence-directed movie is structured completely differently financially than the $200M The Marvels. Lionsgate has largely covered their nut and exposure in foreign territory licensing, materially participating after their partners recover their costs. Songbirds & Snakes will be profitable, with a domestic end results between $120M-$130M. Still, there didn’t seem to be any kind of urgency here on behalf of fans to reignite new life into Hunger Games.
"
 

CGNoire

Member
I've seen every twilight movie (don't ask, I was deceived into watching them) in theaters on the opening days, so they audience was like 90% women at those sold out showings.
I vividly remember in the third movie, where jacob (the werewolf boy) takes off his shirt so the girl can dry herself off, because every single women audibly gasped, like a collective hive minded gasp, and the woman next to me actually reached for the fucking screen while saying "omg jacob!"....safe to say it was a real eye opener to the expression horniness of women when they think they are only amongst other women; they fucking love their hot shirtless dudes.
Ya women be horny as fuck too. Remember all those discarded cucumbers they found on the floors of 50 shades of grey showings?
 
Ya women be horny as fuck too. Remember all those discarded cucumbers they found on the floors of 50 shades of grey showings?
Excuse Me Reaction GIF by One Chicago


Say what? I get that Fifty shades had a huge female audience, but this sounds way too much like some kind of urban legend. You got a source?

EDIT: nevermind, found a source.
 
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Really looking forward to the The Marvels's 2nd weekend gross.









They need this absolute rejection. A reality call. I hope they feel it. Then again, I would give up Dr Doom if they would give another 200 million to Ms Marvel a third time. Just to twist the knife even more.
 

FunkMiller

Gold Member
They need this absolute rejection. A reality call. I hope they feel it. Then again, I would give up Dr Doom if they would give another 200 million to Ms Marvel a third time. Just to twist the knife even more.

Nope. Not going to happen. Because Disney is run by people who have no actual idea anymore of what audiences want. For things to change, it would require a complete overhaul of the staff at the company. Both the activist idiots in the 'creative' roles, and the brain dead techbro dickheads at executive level. Nobody is a genuine creative there anymore. They all fucked off over the last few years.

Deadpool is going to be a watered down, politically correct pale imitation of its former self, with a lot of 'memberberry bullshit about the Fox X-Men. It will fail as well.

Fantastic Four looks to be making Sue the main character and Reed into an insufferable asshole.

The MCU will continue to be terrible, until it finally dies completely. When we look back, it'll be at phases 1 to 3, and everyone will agree it should have ended there.
 
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