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[Redneckerz]

First you claim to have all this insider knowledge on the console industry, but then you make a bunch of claims that show how little you know of it.

All your comments about optimization could only have made sense about 2 decades ago when everyone was using proprietary engines, time to triangle was much longer than it is now and documentation was not only subpar but also sometimes incoherent between the Japanese and English versions. This is the reason why it took so many years to get developers to properly optimize for the PS2 and PS3 (aside for the exotic memory and compute resources setup on the PS3).

Nowadays the documentation is uniform, time to triangle for the PS4 and PS5 is a third of what is was for the PS3 and virtually all developers are using consolidated engines (or engine forks) that are a product of collaborative work between several dev houses.
And now on top of that, generative AI is about to throw a massive wrench into asset creation and code times.


I can concede (with many doubts) that you might have been connected to the videogame industry until 15 years ago, but you're light years away of modern day console optimization.

It might be that he is under NDA hence the generalness of his points.

Optimization is still a thing, though it is more about HALs than exotic archs.

If anything the demoscene shows whats possible.

FWIW i think base current gen is hardly untapped and i agree a potential Pro unit may take things away.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Sorry but time to triangle and easy to dev are slaps in the face when AAA games now take 5+ years with hundreds/thousands! of devs to deliver buggy games with performance issues requiring months/years of fixes cumulating in a (paid for) remaster that finally delivers... if you buy the "Pro"!

Jeez this industry has made me so grumpily cynical and I've sat it out so far!

 

[0neAnd0nly]

First you claim to have all this insider knowledge on the console industry, but then you make a bunch of claims that show how little you know of it.

All your comments about optimization could only have made sense about 2 decades ago when everyone was using proprietary engines, time to triangle was much longer than it is now and documentation was not only subpar but also sometimes incoherent between the Japanese and English versions. This is the reason why it took so many years to get developers to properly optimize for the PS2 and PS3 (aside for the exotic memory and compute resources setup on the PS3).

Nowadays the documentation is uniform, time to triangle for the PS4 and PS5 is a third of what is was for the PS3 and virtually all developers are using consolidated engines (or engine forks) that are a product of collaborative work between several dev houses.
And now on top of that, generative AI is about to throw a massive wrench into asset creation and code times.


I can concede (with many doubts) that you might have been connected to the videogame industry until 15 years ago, but you're light years away of modern day console optimization.

Oh I do not at all have “all this insider knowledge”. The stuff I mentioned is largely very well known.

Of splashing “insider knowledge” things, I knew… like 3 total things that would have been newsworthy.

This is common knowledge stuff. Due to the lengths of developments, massive budget of AAA games, among other issues with gaming development and publishing - we aren’t maxing out consoles quickly anymore. At all. Like, inside the industry GTA is always brought up in these meetings. People love GTA, but it also changed the industry undoubtedly.

All you are saying here does not support the case that consoles right now are efficiently maxed out considering a long cross generation period and the time it takes to actually make games nowadays… it also leads to Pro machines being optimised for even less, quite likely not being the baseline, and thus benefiting only on what they can get by bruteforcing… we will see, but I think people in 2025 will start asking for PS6…

As diminishing returns hit us worse and worse and technology growth slows down more and more how is releasing HW more frequently the answer is beyond me… hey, it keeps prices higher and makes Sony money out of those that want shiny new consoles to buy, but how is this really benefitting people I am not sure (zero cost options? Options always have a cost).

Thank you. Exactly.

 

[MisterXDTV]

So the GPU is about twice the performance of the PS5, which is about what we expected.
The most interesting thing will be what they are doing with the CPU. We have seen a number of games that are CPU limited already on the PS5 and XSX, so while we have a doubling of the GPU performance, I wonder what we will be getting from the CPU.

I will put off my PS5 buy until this releases I think.

Do we think there will be a increase in SSD speed?
I'm not sure they need to. The current one hasn't been utilised yet, and I can't imagine in the 2 or 3 years before the PS6 arrives, they won't be doing anything to take advantage of a faster SSD in the Pro.

No they are not touching the I/O hardware of the original PS5, it's already the fastest on the market...

We should expect GPU + memory bandwidth upgrades like it happened with PS4 Pro...

I'm not sure what they can do with the CPU this time while keeping perfect compatibility with the Original hardware

 

[DenchDeckard]

I really hope it's like 699 pounds or even more. I'd be in day one then. As long as the specs justify the price.

 

[MisterXDTV]

I really hope it's like 699 pounds or even more. I'd be in day one then. As long as the specs justify the price.

They are not launching a mid-gen console for 700 pounds......

$599 MAX

 

[0neAnd0nly]

It might be that he is under NDA hence the generalness of his points.

Optimization is still a thing, though it is more about HALs than exotic archs.

If anything the demoscene shows whats possible.

FWIW i think base current gen is hardly untapped and i agree a potential Pro unit may take things away.

No NDA, thankfully, as I am well out. I just wasn’t that deep in. My jobs weren’t that grand, it had its moments. I don’t want to share too much, personally, because just in case in the off chance someone connects the dots from the companies (doubt heavily any of the people I directly worked with are on GAF tbh), I don’t want to ruin my good standing with them. And my job title wasn’t some amazing sounding title. It isn’t anything anybody here would even care about or understand outside of the company. If that makes sense at all.

I didn’t have and am not sharing some crazy secrets. The stuff I mention when I do speak about “facts” in here are things that are not hidden in the industry. It’s just boring crap that people skim by when reading gaming news and journalism. Well known things.

I wasn’t someone in the center of things. I believe I posted above, but I probably knew a handful of “secrets” that would have been newsworthy. 2 of those were things i learned because of direct involvement in the industry, so yes - my employer wouldn’t have wanted me to talk about it.

The other 1 or 2 things are things I just heard about through networking and talking with others inside at events or what not. I have actually shared one of those here before, and it was PlayStation specific. I figured by the time I shared it, the time for it was years passed so it was whatever.

Regarding the topic at hand, I also am admittedly arguing from personal cynicism with the industry. I said that before, but some still take issue with my stance.

And your points are all good stuff too!

It’s way too late where I am at and dealing with personal things has made me grumpy tonight. I apologize to anybody on here tonight if I have seemed arrogant or rude. Not the intention at all. I love GAF and always enjoy the discussion.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Sorry but time to triangle and easy to dev are slaps in the face when AAA games now take 5+ years with hundreds/thousands! of devs to deliver buggy games with performance issues requiring months/years of fixes cumulating in a (paid for) remaster that finally delivers... if you buy the "Pro"!

Jeez this industry has made me so grumpily cynical and I've sat it out so far!

Not the reason games take 5+ years.

 

[Boneless]

Screw playstation and their cash grabbing, the generation did not ever properly kick off yet and they are introducing the upgrade. :')

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Not the reason gams tae 5+ years.

Of course I meant those things are irrelevant. Game development today has way bigger issues getting anything out the door in a timely fashion.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Screw playstation and their cash grabbing, the generation did not ever properly kick off yet and they are introducing the upgrade. :')

Nobody is forcing you to buy the upgrade....

It won't be available for 16 months anyway

 

[rofif]

Nobody is forcing you to buy the upgrade....

It won't be available for 16 months anyway

You don't get it even a little bit?
The pro consoles are another, more expensive sku, splitting generation and making it even harder for devs to develop.
With constantly changing hardware, devs keep using it as budget pc instead of bespoke hardware with special features, They need time to tap into that power.

Pro consoles might be cool and we will all buy it, but I realize that in the long term, it is a bad thing for the industry and game dev. Even ps5 is barely used to it's core after 3 years

 

[MisterXDTV]

You don't get it even a little bit?
The pro consoles are another, more expensive sku, splitting generation and making it even harder for devs to develop.
With constantly changing hardware, devs keep using it as budget pc instead of bespoke hardware with special features, They need time to tap into that power.

Pro consoles might be cool and we will all buy it, but I realize that in the long term, it is a bad thing for the industry and game dev. Even ps5 is barely used to it's core after 3 years

Harder to develop???

They will make the games for base PS5 and then improve resolution/frame rate/ray tracing for the Pro Model...

What happened exactly when PS4 Pro came out? Nothing changed for standard PS4 users, that was still the MAIN platform

 

[rofif]

Harder to develop???

They will make the games for base PS5 and then improve resolution/frame rate/ray tracing for the Pro Model...

What happened exactly when PS4 Pro came out? Nothing changed for standard PS4 users, that was still the MAIN platform

it's not as easy. any devs said the same thing. It's more hassle. You don't just change to 4k on pro and be done with it. It's more testing, testing and testing.

 

[Salz01]

So this thing is just a 25% performance boost based on the leak? Or it’s too soon to tell? Hope PS start showing games that aren’t just just PS4 tier. Outside of SM2, nothing seems to even look like a serious PS5 game still.

 

[MisterXDTV]

it's not as easy. any devs said the same thing. It's more hassle. You don't just change to 4k on pro and be done with it. It's more testing, testing and testing.

You didn't answer my question...

What happened in 2016 when PS4 Pro launched to base PS4 users?

Why would it be different in 2024??

Cerny is not an idiot, he KNOWS that most of the user base will stay with the (cheaper) standard PS5

 

[Moses85]

Disappointing if true. No need for a Pro this gen. How about a slim instead?

Also wondering if lack of a Pro enhanced CoD will make a difference in sales.

 

[Putyouinmyoven]

Except you know... he isn't referring to stupid gamers on gaming forums... he's referring to the PC tech community of which he is a part.

Yeah I figured he wasn't, it's just, that particular preamble, along with 'we need to talk about xxx', just makes me cringe every time

 

[SegaSnatcher]

Why are there still people who do not understand the desire for an upgraded console 3 - 4 yrs after the base console was launched?

The standard PS5 has already shown its limitations with the resolution, graphical fidelity and fps combo you can achieve.

Most 120fps modes barely ever hit 120fps and can be limited to only 1080p resolution in some games. Who wants 1080p in 2023, gross.

Think about all those balanced 40fps unlocked modes that would benefit greatly from the PS5 Pro and likely hit 60fps+ on average.

The reality is the standard PS5 still has to make some pretty significant compromises depending on whether you prefer graphical fidelity or frame rate.

PS5 Pro even with a lazy hardware activated boost mode would make a pretty significant improvement in many games.

And even more obvious is how the PS5 Pro will improve the PSVR2 experience.

It's really not hard to understand.

 

[SegaSnatcher]

No they are not touching the I/O hardware of the original PS5, it's already the fastest on the market...

We should expect GPU + memory bandwidth upgrades like it happened with PS4 Pro...

I'm not sure what they can do with the CPU this time while keeping perfect compatibility with the Original hardware

Just give it a modest frequency boost like they did with the Jaguar CPU in the PS4 Pro.

 

[shamoomoo]

Just give it a modest frequency boost like they did with the Jaguar CPU in the PS4 Pro.

From what I gather about the PS5 CPU is has cache problems and the fact it's a CCX instead of being CCD. So the PS5 pro may up the amount of cache as the mobile Ryzen variant and add a slight bump to clock speed.

 

[shamoomoo]

Many PS5s can't even handle FF16 including mine.

Or the engine isn't as efficient at making the type of game that FF16 became.

 

[Loxus]

Doesn't seem powerful enough but I'm no engineer.

Depends on if Sony and AMD collaboration this time lead to hardware upscale, which I believe the PS5 Pro will be heavily reliant on.

IMO, RDNA 3 already have this requirement.

 

[Hunnybun]

And yet the game doesn't look anything special. There are way better looking games that run better than FFXVI.

Exactly. The bar is R&C and Horizon Burning Shores. They both look spectacular at perfectly good resolutions, with shitloads going on at all times, at 60fps. Nothing else comes close imo.

There are some other great looking games like RE4, Callisto Protocol, TLOU Part 1, GOW Ragnarok, and Demon's Souls, but they all make far more compromises of one kind or another. I only played the demo, but for me FFXVI doesn't measure up to any of *those*, let alone Ratchet or HBS.

 

[DuduIsDisappointed]

But is that a hardware issue or an optimization issue?

Ps5 can handle this with High IQ and locked fps

Still the most impressive ue5 demo moment for me.

Bear in mind that FFXVI has oftenly the Same scenario: a vast world on a horizon with a single character, yet it cant hand a candle to this.

FACT!

And People are crazy about a better ps5 when the original brought by many are not even being propperly used by these devs

Fuck this shit!

 

[Gaiff]

I hate to constantly pull this effing card out, but I worked in the industry. The consoles are 100% not to their potential yet. This isn’t a fantasy, it’s a fact.

No one cares that you work in the industry. It doesn't help your credibility one way or the other. Additionally, "working in the industry" means jackshit. You could be a character designer for all we know. What insight would that give you into the engineering process.

The rest of your post simply makes you sound like a clueless Gaf poster. If your work in the industry provides you with valuable knowledge the rest of us aren't privy to, then speak like someone who knows what they're talking about.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Ps5 can handle this with High IQ and locked fps

Still the most impressive ue5 demo moment for me.

Bear in mind that FFXVI has oftenly the Same scenario: a vast world on a horizon with a single character, yet it cant hand a candle to this.

FACT!

And People are crazy about a better ps5 when the original brought by many are not even being propperly used by these devs

Fuck this shit!

Apologies but that's a laughable comparison. A 5-10min tech demo with a single character, a single desert environment, ultra linear walking simulator vs a 40 hour game with probably around hundred characters, NPCs, enemy designs, gameplay systems, dozens of unique environments, towns and set pieces to design.

Yet you essentially argue the UE5 tech demo experience was an example of the PS5 being used "properly" by devs whilst suggesting XVI (which is an amazing looking game) is a bad example of a PS5 experience or use.

I'm not sure why so many graphics junkies are so unreasonable, but it tends to be the case in the enthusiast circles.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I hate to constantly pull this effing card out, but I worked in the industry. The consoles are 100% not to their potential yet. This isn’t a fantasy, it’s a fact.

You can disagree with me all you want, fine - but I speak to this base factually. I know PlayStation… well. We’ll keep it at that, I suppose.

This is easily measurable, as they have barely published a single game that is *only* available on next gen consoles. Everything is running upscaled off games designed for last generation. There are a few reasons for this, but I’m not into that long of a convo atm.

I hate the half step bs of technology today. I am not saying it’s Sony exclusive, note how I said the “industry”.

Do you remember a pro PS1? Ps2? N64? Etc.

Didn’t happen. Consumers paid big money, got a console - and hypothetically it should last a decent time.

Today, companies have barely straightened production out, haven’t made barely a blip of games exclusively for it to test its features (Astro bot is probably, embarrassingly, the best example of one), and yet here goes Sony making a “NEWER” version.

Eff that crap. I don’t gulp the game industry like many do, it’s pathetic.

Sony makes some bone headed moves, we have seen time and time again. They are insanely lucky that Microsoft has the worst run gaming division in the history of the industry.

This isn’t really a bad business move, sure, because tech consumers have become outright lemmings. But it’s dumb. I don’t think it’s controversial for me to say that Sony should have done a far better job with software for the PS5 at this point before launching a “new improved” console. Is that really ruffling your feathers?

Btw, the phone industry sucks butt. Lemming crap too. I didn’t work in it, but it doesn’t take a genius to recognize it’s been a giant burden on society.

PC is a whole different debate. If I wanted PC, I would build one. People historically buy consoles for convenience, largely of not having to constantly rebuild and refresh. Buy a box, set it up in 5 minutes, be done for 5-10 years.

Now before you can barely find the box to buy, we already headed to the next one.

Stupid.

Just my .02. You don’t have to like it. Don’t insult my knowledge of the industry though, thanks.

You know everything you said here does not address why Sony started doing these Pro consoles, right?

Sony saw about mid generation people started migrating towards PCs and these Pro consoles are designed to have people buy them and stay in the PS ecosystem, nothing more

They don't care about optimization or feelings or any shit other than bottom dollar.

 

[Clear]

The knock on any sort of mid-gen refresh is that its an expensive and high-effort way of keeping the product fresh. So in my opinion its only made sense when there's a second strategic goal to be served, such as PS4Pro being there to service the rapidly growing 4K TV market.

This time around, with 8k's uptake being way slower and seemingly with a much lower ceiling due to the scarcity of native 8k media, I was super skeptical about either Sony or MS pursuing the same approach.

However with these rumours still swirling and especially with the way that the Playstation and Xbox are seeking to differentiate themselves on the market maybe it does make sufficient business sense after all... at least for Sony.

My take is that MS will really not want to do this because they already have a more comprehensive and logistically complex offer on the market, and adding a third console SKU would be difficult to sell without disrupting their marketing and business to a point beyond where any advantage would take them.

Simply put, MS have a problem insofar as that they cannot afford to pitch Xcloud as in any way a "lesser" option for their audience. This is why they populate their data-centres with Series X hardware, the pitch has to be that streaming offers parity with their high-end console offer.

In context of adding a third, high-end, Series SKU they would need to replace all that back-end hardware with the new best. Which would be expensive and pose major production hurdles. Then of course they would need to further complicate their cert and production pipeline with yet another tech tier and then find a way to market it adequately such that it'd be worthwhile for both first and third party developers to support it. Which is a fairly big ask given the potential performance delta between series S, and a hypothetical platform above series X.

Sony, on the other hand have it somewhat easier.

If we take the rumour mill as true, then I suspect what we'll see first is the new PS5 model with the detachable Blu-ray drive as a replacement for both the standard and DE PS5. This simplifies production and allows them to thicken the profit margin on the sold separately bd-rom.

Then, about a year later they could launch this premium unit, again without the drive as standard, to make the new higher price-point less unpalatable.

End result is an offer that looks kinda similar to Series S and X, just at a slightly higher price points thanks to them offloading the Blu-Ray component to be an optional extra. They have the same 2-tier hardware setup, which will be fine as PS4 will basically be done at this point, and can market based on a power advantage over Xbox, knowing that in order to match them MS would need to significantly reshuffle their offer.

Seems to me that this might be enough potential upside to justify the pain.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Sony, on the other hand have it somewhat easier.

If we take the rumour mill as true, then I suspect what we'll see first is the new PS5 model with the detachable Blu-ray drive as a replacement for both the standard and DE PS5. This simplifies production and allows them to thicken the profit margin on the sold separately bd-rom.

Then, about a year later they could launch this premium unit, again without the drive as standard, to make the new higher price-point less unpalatable.

End result is an offer that looks kinda similar to Series S and X, just at a slightly higher price points thanks to them offloading the Blu-Ray component to be an optional extra. They have the same 2-tier hardware setup, which will be fine as PS4 will basically be done at this point, and can market based on a power advantage over Xbox, knowing that in order to match them MS would need to significantly reshuffle their offer.

Seems to me that this might be enough potential upside to justify the pain.

Agreed

- PS5 digital/PS5 disc replaced by a single SKU in late 2023 (with optional BD drive)
- PS5 Pro arrives in late 2024
- PS4 finally dies

 

[Panajev2001a]

You know everything you said here does not address why Sony started doing these Pro consoles, right?

Sony saw about mid generation people started migrating towards PCs and these Pro consoles are designed to have people buy them and stay in the PS ecosystem, nothing more

They don't care about optimization or feelings or any shit other than bottom dollar.

If they keep people in the ecosystem without giving them really a real edge or the edge they hope for then they do not even give people much… and they are likely to give them less and less over time, so we are happy that they create ways to monetise our FOMO/HungerForMore?

 

[Mr Moose]

Screw playstation and their cash grabbing, the generation did not ever properly kick off yet and they are introducing the upgrade. :')

They haven't introduced anything, this is a "leak". This thing won't release this year.

 

[MisterXDTV]

If they keep people in the ecosystem without giving them really a real edge or the edge they hope for then they do not even give people much… and they are likely to give them less and less over time, so we are happy that they create ways to monetise our FOMO/HungerForMore?

Why is that a problem?

That "FOMO" is the user's problem, not Sony's...

If you can't resist buying it, it means they were right in making it...

 

[ergem]

Ps5 can handle this with High IQ and locked fps

Still the most impressive ue5 demo moment for me.

Bear in mind that FFXVI has oftenly the Same scenario: a vast world on a horizon with a single character, yet it cant hand a candle to this.

FACT!

And People are crazy about a better ps5 when the original brought by many are not even being propperly used by these devs

Fuck this shit!

Can you allow us and Sony the option to have this graphics at 60fps? Or, you think they could still optimize this to 60fps without compromising graphics.

Seriously, what’s your problem with the pro models? Did the PS4 pro gimped the base PS4?

 

[Panajev2001a]

Why is that a problem?

That "FOMO" is the user's problem, not Sony's...

If you can't resist buying it, it means they were right in making it...

Fools and their money… ?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Fools and their money… ?

It won’t be a FOMO purchase for me I just want the best experience when playing their first party games plus if Xbox doesn’t follow the pro design then will be the best console experience period

 

[Panajev2001a]

It won’t be a FONO purchase for me I just want the best experience when playing their first party games plus if Xbox doesn’t follow the pro design then will be the best console experience period

Always less and less of a bump, so it becomes bragging rights more than anything…

 

[MisterXDTV]

Always less and less of a bump, so it becomes bragging rights more than anything…

People are stupid, what do you expect?

There are people that spend $1000 a year for a new iPhone for doing exactly the same things they were doing just fine with their previous one

 

[Panajev2001a]

People are stupid, what do you expect?

There are people that spend $1000 a year for a new iPhone for doing exactly the same things they were doing just fine with their previous one

Tell me again why I should like it then ?

 

[MisterXDTV]

Tell me again why I should like it then ?

You don't have to like it, you can hate it...

Just DON'T buy it. Problem solved....

 

[sncvsrtoip]

What’s the gpu equivalent of ps5 pro?

probably rtx4070, rx6800xt

 

[Clear]

People are stupid, what do you expect?

There are people that spend $1000 a year for a new iPhone for doing exactly the same things they were doing just fine with their previous one

The profit margins on iPhones and consoles are totally incomparable, also adding an extra hardware SKU requires a full root and branch upgrade to the entire software and publishing pipeline. The risk/benefit analysis is way tougher.

 

[Thirty7ven]

I hate to constantly pull this effing card out, but I worked in the industry. The consoles are 100% not to their potential yet. This isn’t a fantasy, it’s a fact.

You can disagree with me all you want, fine - but I speak to this base factually. I know PlayStation… well. We’ll keep it at that, I suppose.

This is easily measurable, as they have barely published a single game that is *only* available on next gen consoles. Everything is running upscaled off games designed for last generation. There are a few reasons for this, but I’m not into that long of a convo atm.

I hate the half step bs of technology today. I am not saying it’s Sony exclusive, note how I said the “industry”.

Do you remember a pro PS1? Ps2? N64? Etc.

Didn’t happen. Consumers paid big money, got a console - and hypothetically it should last a decent time.

Today, companies have barely straightened production out, haven’t made barely a blip of games exclusively for it to test its features (Astro bot is probably, embarrassingly, the best example of one), and yet here goes Sony making a “NEWER” version.

Eff that crap. I don’t gulp the game industry like many do, it’s pathetic.

Sony makes some bone headed moves, we have seen time and time again. They are insanely lucky that Microsoft has the worst run gaming division in the history of the industry.

This isn’t really a bad business move, sure, because tech consumers have become outright lemmings. But it’s dumb. I don’t think it’s controversial for me to say that Sony should have done a far better job with software for the PS5 at this point before launching a “new improved” console. Is that really ruffling your feathers?

Btw, the phone industry sucks butt. Lemming crap too. I didn’t work in it, but it doesn’t take a genius to recognize it’s been a giant burden on society.

PC is a whole different debate. If I wanted PC, I would build one. People historically buy consoles for convenience, largely of not having to constantly rebuild and refresh. Buy a box, set it up in 5 minutes, be done for 5-10 years.

Now before you can barely find the box to buy, we already headed to the next one.

Stupid.

Just my .02. You don’t have to like it. Don’t insult my knowledge of the industry though, thanks.

There's nothing to insult, you barely know anything about it.

 

[MisterXDTV]

The profit margins on iPhones and consoles are totally incomparable, also adding an extra hardware SKU requires a full root and branch upgrade to the entire software and publishing pipeline. The risk/benefit analysis is way tougher.

That's why we are talking about an upgrade 4 YEARS later... Not 1

The business model was a console every 6 years...

Now it's 2 (with the second optional) in 8 years....

Not that different....

 

[Ivory Samoan]

I could write some stuff about things, or I can just say the truth.

I'm there minute one with bells tied around my new-toy cuck manicles...Pro me up!!

 

[Varteras]

I could write some stuff about things, or I can just say the truth.

I'm there minute one with bells tied around my new-toy cuck manicles...Pro me up!!

 

[SF Kosmo]

The renders are a good tip off this is bogus. The memory speed doesn't even make sense either.

 

[StereoVsn]

Wow, you've brought such incredible arguments to the table. I'm speechless.

SE is well known to produce games with shoddy performanc and stuttering. Doubly so on PC. Implying that because this is so called SE's "A team" that couldn't get things done so it must all be in hardware is beyond ridiculous.

 

[Metnut]

A 700 pounds console? No fucking way. How the hell will I even get it up the stairs and into my tv room?

 

[The Alien]

Agent Smith is the one virus that threatens and almost completely destroys everything, so yes, sounds like MS

Meanwhile the sheep continue to allow themselves to sleep in their faux comfortable false reality. Choosing to have the veil kept closed...choosing to have everything selected and fed to them even though the alternative is better for them in the long run. Yet they fervently fight for this voluntary slavery.

Yep.... sounds like console gaming.