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[ZywyPL]

Xbox is a PC. Xbox games and gamepass are all on PC.

Lots of people might cheap out on the graphics card if they dont plan to run high rez. This is the same thing.

Will it be enough to beat the playstation brand hard to tell. Sony is very strong. But MS has to think outside the box to take down PS.

You do realize 99% of PS5 games will be available on PC as well? Unless you are buying the console for just 5-6 games.

If PS4 had no games for half its lifespan, then what about Xbox One - we are talking nearly its WHOLE lifespan. This is why Lockhart is a tough sell. If you want an Xbox, buy a Series X or even better, a more powerful PC, because Xbox 'exclusives' are really 'Xbox and PC exclusives'. It's clear on social media that no one is excited about the series x, do you really think people will buy a Lockhart?

MS started to pull out Halo, Gears and Forza much earlier than Sony it's exclusives, if anything, it's the second half of XB1 lifespan where it felt like it was left behind by MS because they wanted to focus on next-gen launch.

And yes, I do firmly believe shitloads of people will go get the cheapest console out there, just as they did this gen (PS4) and previous gen (X360), average consumer doesn't give a crap if he'll get to play the next Fifa, CoD or GTA in FullHD or 4K, they don't see a difference between DVD and BD nor they care, they don't see a difference between cheap-ass soundbar vs proper surround set nor they care, and so on, as long as they get the same content they couldn't care less, and those additional pixels aren't worth extra 50/100/200$ for them.

 

[anzhar]

I cant believe the amount of energy you guys are are wasting over nothing

Buy or dont buy, its all personal choice

I just finished an 6 hour online session on my 0.23 Teraflop PS3, and i love this console, it gives me my fighting game and shmup fix

It used to satisfy my racing game fix, however my racing fix is now provided by a real car!! And im spending £7000 this year on a turbo conversion to take it to 600bhp

All money i saved by skipping this generation, and probably will skip every other future gen as im satisfied by a 0.25 teraflops PS3

 

[gamerforever]

I cant believe the amount of energy you guys are are wasting over nothing

Buy or dont buy, its all personal choice

I just finished an 6 hour online session on my 0.23 Teraflop PS3, and i love this console, it gives me my fighting game and shmup fix

It used to satisfy my racing game fix, however my racing fix is now provided by a real car!! And im spending £7000 this year on a turbo conversion to take it to 600bhp

All money i saved by skipping this generation, and probably will skip every other future gen as im satisfied by a 0.25 teraflops PS3

Fair enough, but some peoples 'real car' are the latest console. I do think it is healthy to have some debate as long as it doesn't go personal.

 

[cryptoadam]

You do realize 99% of PS5 games will be available on PC as well? Unless you are buying the console for just 5-6 games.

Thats true, but PS5 exclusive aren't all 100% on PC yet, while XBOX is.

Anyways all I am saying is that having a lockheart is like someone buying a cheaper graphics card when they build their PC. It makes sense for MS since the Xbox now is pretty much just a PC and it isn't trying to hide it anymore.

 

[mckmas8808]

I didn't mean it a negative or positive way. I am simply stating that you seem to think that the market wants simplicity and turn key solutions which is why Apple and Samsung are the most popular brands. Which is not the case. Apple is very far from a Turn Key Solution in the tech space because the tech space in general has a lot of players the same way the Gaming market does now.

And by that virtue Microsoft having two different SKU's on shelves is going to somehow a huge disruption in how people will perceive the product and its value. The two different SKUs will be the least of Microsoft's worry and if anything will help them get a foothold into the market as consumers are showing they are becoming far more price conscious than ever before. The latest and most expensive has shown in the tech space that its not the most popular category. Laptops, Phones, Tablets all show that consumers don't always want the "best" but the best "bang for your buck" instead. Even Microsofts own products show this.

I guess we'll agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Nikana]

I guess we'll agree to disagree on this one.

I'm not trying to be a dick but consumer buying habits shows the average consumer does not get the premium model if there is a cheaper version available. There's nothing to really disagree with there.

 

[mckmas8808]

I agree the easiest way to move forward is to discontinue the current Xbox One gen later this year.


There's 2 separate arguments being combined as one with the claims being made in this thread. This is due to confusion and "concern" on the enthusiasts' part, which is then being projected onto the casual, price-conscious consumer:

Theme 1-> Lockhart marketing is confusing to it's target demographic

The price-conscious consumer doesn't have the option for a $500 4K next-gen system purchase. They are value shoppers. Lockhart offers the value I mentioned earlier, with the only trade-off being it runs next-gen games at 1080p instead of 4K. That's all a value-oriented, casual gamer needs to know.

Theme 2-> Lockhart is weaker than X1X, thus X1X should remain as the entry-level system

According to tests I've done with a 4TF Turing GPU and Ryzen 5 1600, the Lockhart will at worst slightly edge the X1X in GPU-bound 4K scenarios, and easily surpass it in regards to CPU-bound scenarios like TW3's 'Performance Mode'. This is concerning current-gen games, and completely ignoring next-gen games designed around Zen 2 CPU, RT, VRS, and ML for AI-based upscaling. For example, how would X1X perform in Control with RT enabled?

With Theme 1, wouldn't those consumers mainly be better at getting an Xbox One X for a cheaper price this holiday season since all 1st party games will be playable on that console for the next 18 months or so? I'm assuming the X1X will cost $100 less than Lockhart this holiday season.

Plus with Gamepass, X1X is the cheapest, yet best bang for casuals buck imo.

 

[Ascend]

Why the fuck are you spreading misinformation ?
Sony has never been in a better financial situation than the past few years . They hit record profit last year.

I understand ur upset that pc makes xbox redundant for many people but it is what it is . U don't need to drag ps into that due to your insecurities with false information.

From old to new, and obviously not everything...

TechRadar | the technology experts

The latest technology news and reviews, covering computing, home entertainment systems, gadgets and more

www.technobuffalo.com

Sony's stock swoons amid worries its portfolio 'is in trouble'

Sony's stock was sent plummeting around 8 percent on Monday after the company cut its revenue outlook for the fiscal year.

www.cnbc.com

Weaker Entertainment Earnings Hurt Sony in Third Quarter

With lower earnings from games, music and pictures, Japan's Sony reported third quarter profits that were nearly halved.

variety.com

As for the bold part, it's really convenient for you to make up stuff about others that disagree with you, isn't it? Give another explanation why suddenly they are porting games to PC.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Why the fuck are you spreading misinformation ?
Sony has never been in a better financial situation than the past few years . They hit record profit last year.

I understand ur upset that pc makes xbox redundant for many people but it is what it is . U don't need to drag ps into that due to your insecurities with false information.

I don't think they'll release their games on PC due to financial trouble, but more as another revenue stream

 

[mckmas8808]

I'm not trying to be a dick but consumer buying habits shows the average consumer does not get the premium model if there is a cheaper version available. There's nothing to really disagree with there.

No me and you agree 100% here. We disagree if MS does have 2 skus if this will cause confusion or not. I think it will. I also think it'll cause confusion for MS on which console to actually market and advertise on billboards, commercials, and the internet. Do you market the "POWER LEADER" console or the console that most people can easily afford?

As you said, the average consumer tends to buy the cheaper model and not the premium model. But in videogames, who exactly is your average consumer? The answer depends on when the platform holder launched their console. Within the first 2 years or so, the average gamer will actually want to buy the premium console (which is typically the one that offers them the most value). We know this for sure! And it looks like the XSX will offer more long-term value than XSS.

Starting in 2023, the average consumer will probably start being more price concise. That's when Lockhart will be GREAT to sell. If Lockhart in Holiday 2022 came out and was $249, that would be HUGE for MS.

 

[Thirty7ven]

No me and you agree 100% here. We disagree if MS does have 2 skus if this will cause confusion or not. I think it will. I also think it'll cause confusion for MS on which console to actually market and advertise on billboards, commercials, and the internet. Do you market the "POWER LEADER" console or the console that most people can easily afford?

As you said, the average consumer tends to buy the cheaper model and not the premium model. But in videogames, who exactly is your average consumer? The answer depends on when the platform holder launched their console. Within the first 2 years or so, the average gamer will actually want to buy the premium console (which is typically the one that offers them the most value). We know this for sure! And it looks like the XSX will offer more long-term value than XSS.

Starting in 2023, the average consumer will probably start being more price concise. That's when Lockhart will be GREAT to sell. If Lockhart in Holiday 2022 came out and was $249, that would be HUGE for MS.

It’s a gamble for sure. Maybe MS can attract those people who wait until the generation is over, maybe not. Usually those who wait, well they wait so they might not be willing to buy another system so soon. It will be very interesting to see but it’s the right move for MS.

 

[martino]

No me and you agree 100% here. We disagree if MS does have 2 skus if this will cause confusion or not. I think it will. I also think it'll cause confusion for MS on which console to actually market and advertise on billboards, commercials, and the internet. Do you market the "POWER LEADER" console or the console that most people can easily afford?

As you said, the average consumer tends to buy the cheaper model and not the premium model. But in videogames, who exactly is your average consumer? The answer depends on when the platform holder launched their console. Within the first 2 years or so, the average gamer will actually want to buy the premium console (which is typically the one that offers them the most value). We know this for sure! And it looks like the XSX will offer more long-term value than XSS.

Starting in 2023, the average consumer will probably start being more price concise. That's when Lockhart will be GREAT to sell. If Lockhart in Holiday 2022 came out and was $249, that would be HUGE for MS.

i would try to sell the two.
one as the ultimate 4k machine
the other as the ultimate 1080p one (half truth pr indeed)
those things are common and understood because of tvs

 

[Agnostic2020]

From old to new, and obviously not everything...

TechRadar | the technology experts

The latest technology news and reviews, covering computing, home entertainment systems, gadgets and more

www.technobuffalo.com

Sony's stock swoons amid worries its portfolio 'is in trouble'

Sony's stock was sent plummeting around 8 percent on Monday after the company cut its revenue outlook for the fiscal year.

www.cnbc.com

Weaker Entertainment Earnings Hurt Sony in Third Quarter

With lower earnings from games, music and pictures, Japan's Sony reported third quarter profits that were nearly halved.

variety.com

As for the bold part, it's really convenient for you to make up stuff about others that disagree with you, isn't it? Give another explanation why suddenly they are porting games to PC.

U posted articles from 2014. Are you fucking serious ??

Get that fud spreading shit outta here. Deal with it . Pc is making xbox less relevant option for many people . No need to spread lies for Sony.

Sony can bring 3 years old game to pc to get more money as they made all they could from it on PS.

 

[Bladed Thesis]

No me and you agree 100% here. We disagree if MS does have 2 skus if this will cause confusion or not. I think it will. I also think it'll cause confusion for MS on which console to actually market and advertise on billboards, commercials, and the internet. Do you market the "POWER LEADER" console or the console that most people can easily afford?

As you said, the average consumer tends to buy the cheaper model and not the premium model. But in videogames, who exactly is your average consumer? The answer depends on when the platform holder launched their console. Within the first 2 years or so, the average gamer will actually want to buy the premium console (which is typically the one that offers them the most value). We know this for sure! And it looks like the XSX will offer more long-term value than XSS.

Starting in 2023, the average consumer will probably start being more price concise. That's when Lockhart will be GREAT to sell. If Lockhart in Holiday 2022 came out and was $249, that would be HUGE for MS.

I think this question is answered already by the One X and One S. Or the PS4 and Pro. It already happens and there is different marketing for each. The focus console is the one they show in ads, etc, and the other one is a shopping option. What's changed?

 

[mckmas8808]

It’s a gamble for sure. Maybe MS can attract those people who wait until the generation is over, maybe not. Usually those who wait, well they wait so they might not be willing to buy another system so soon. It will be very interesting to see but it’s the right move for MS.

I agree! It's the best move for MS indeed. MS is more focused on the subscription model and making that $10-$15 a month (and that's fine), than having just a console. It's why they are releasing all their 1st party games on Gamepass Day One. Plus why all their 1st party games will be on PC on Day One also.

They have a different business model next-gen, than Sony. So, it's only right that MS and Sony's strategry be different too.

I think this question is answered already by the One X and One S. Or the PS4 and Pro. It already happens and there is different marketing for each. The focus console is the one they show in ads, etc, and the other one is a shopping option. What's changed?

The only thing that's changed is that they will be coming out both on Day One of the generation starting. So, which one does MS show in the ADs this holiday season? And will those ADs show a price of "THAT" particular console that they show?

 

[Thirty7ven]

i would try to sell the two.
one as the ultimate 4k machine
the other as the ultimate 1080p one (half truth pr indeed)
those things are common and understood because of tvs

If they are selling these boxes on 1080p and 4K slogans they are doa. That shit is current gen talking point. It will be a bullet point at most, they will sell it on other types of ideas.

 

[Ascend]

U posted articles from 2014. Are you fucking serious ??

Get that fud spreading shit outta here. Deal with it . Pc is making xbox less relevant option for many people . No need to spread lies for Sony.

Sony can bring 3 years old game to pc to get more money as they made all they could from it on PS.

And obviously you have to ignore the question as to why Sony wants to bring their exclusive games to PC...

You really love using every excuse in the book don't you? Well, that is a reason to say... Goodbye.

 

[Vawn]

Xbox should make THE design for Series S. Not a special edition, just the only version.

 

[Agnostic2020]

And obviously you have to ignore the question as to why Sony wants to bring their exclusive games to PC...

You really love using every excuse in the book don't you? Well, that is a reason to say... Goodbye.

Every reason in the book ? U lied that sony is doing horrible and posted an article from 2014 when they were doing bad . Sonybhas posted record profit last year in sonys history. How is that doing bad ?

As for why, I told u . Sony wants more money just like every business under the sun . Games after 2 years have finished 85% od their sales. So sony wants to introduce those games to new audience to get more money.

U can have a discussion as to why sony wants to do it but don't spread lies

 

[Vawn]

Can't be more than 299... you can't sell that at 349 if PS5 for some reason is at 399. No way.

I think it will be $200 less than Series X. X will most likely be $500, so S will be $299. If it ends up being $600, I could see S being $399.

 

[mckmas8808]

If they are selling these boxes on 1080p and 4K slogans they are doa. That shit is current gen talking point. It will be a bullet point at most, they will sell it on other types of ideas.

Does anybody know what's the percentage of 4K TVs sold in 2018 and/or 2019?

 

[Arkam]

And obviously you have to ignore the question as to why Sony wants to bring their exclusive games to PC...

You really love using every excuse in the book don't you? Well, that is a reason to say... Goodbye.

Cuz why leave money on the table? Games when released have a window of time that they sell (differs for each game) but for all it is very clear when the decline starts. WHy not do easy ports (assuming they are) to scoop up additional sales from those outside your initial platform. Makes sense to me. MS doing it day/date is a bit different. Clearly they want a single window with multiple platforms.... which makes sense too.


More importantly why are we not talking about Lockhart? Its either the smartest or dumbest moves we have seen...well since the WiiU. So many "what ifs" ponder.

 

[DaGwaphics]

More importantly why are we not talking about Lockhart? Its either the smartest or dumbest moves we have seen...well since the WiiU. So many "what ifs" ponder.

This, it's outside the box by a mile in the console space. Time will tell if it was a Peyton Manning or Ryan Leaf level decision.

Or we've misread the tea leaves, and the lockhart we've been speculating about isn't the one we get.

 

[Nikana]

No me and you agree 100% here. We disagree if MS does have 2 skus if this will cause confusion or not. I think it will. I also think it'll cause confusion for MS on which console to actually market and advertise on billboards, commercials, and the internet. Do you market the "POWER LEADER" console or the console that most people can easily afford?

As you said, the average consumer tends to buy the cheaper model and not the premium model. But in videogames, who exactly is your average consumer? The answer depends on when the platform holder launched their console. Within the first 2 years or so, the average gamer will actually want to buy the premium console (which is typically the one that offers them the most value). We know this for sure! And it looks like the XSX will offer more long-term value than XSS.

Starting in 2023, the average consumer will probably start being more price concise. That's when Lockhart will be GREAT to sell. If Lockhart in Holiday 2022 came out and was $249, that would be HUGE for MS.

You make a ton of assumptions here that genuinely sound like FUD.

Why would they only advertise one console over the other? They are two different products for two different consumers. There is no confusion to be had. They are not products that can be easily confused. One is a premium with more features and one is a baseline.

"As you said, the average consumer tends to buy the cheaper model and not the premium model. But in videogames, who exactly is your average consumer? The answer depends on when the platform holder launched their console. Within the first 2 years or so, the average gamer will actually want to buy the premium console (which is typically the one that offers them the most value). We know this for sure! And it looks like the XSX will offer more long-term value than XSS."

I don't really understand what you are saying here. The average consumer is just that..the average consumer. The hardcore crowd never makes up the majority of the market in this scenario. The most value is exactly why Lockhart exists in the first place. Saying the XSS offers less value doesn't make any sense as the value is perceived by the longevity of the product. By eliminating the high price point of entry into next gen you get the consumer that typically would buy a console in the latter portion of the life cycle much sooner thus locking them in to the ecosystem much longer than you would by having them buy into the product years down the line.

Typically the more casual consumer in the gaming space buys the console when it hits the price point they want. See the PS2, PS3 and the PS4 sales. The more hardcore crowd buys it the first year when its at its highest price, but they sustains long-term sales which are the last 70 percent of the products life by dropping the price to a level that the person who is more casual about the medium sees as a good jumping in point. Lockhart offers this day 1 instead of having to try and entice the consumer down the line, but then also gives them an even cheaper entry point in the following years as they can drop the price on Lockhart even further.

 

[MasterCornholio]

And obviously you have to ignore the question as to why Sony wants to bring their exclusive games to PC...

You really love using every excuse in the book don't you? Well, that is a reason to say... Goodbye.

Do you have a more recent article about PlayStations financial issues?

 

[Ascend]

Do you have a more recent article about PlayStations financial issues?

Did you even look at my post? It has three links. The last one is from February 2020. I was clear that I was posting the articles in order. And FYI, I said Sony has financial issues, not Playstation. Although the last article does not exclude PlayStation.

That I am having to now somehow justify myself is a complete joke. People reply in an dishonest manner and then I'm seen as the bad guy.

 

[Arkam]

This, it's outside the box by a mile in the console space. Time will tell if it was a Peyton Manning or Ryan Leaf level decision.

Or we've misread the tea leaves, and the lockhart we've been speculating about isn't the one we get.

That would be the best twist in this story. I mean at one point I remember reading online that MS had a streaming box in the works that was gonna be an Xbox lite targeting casuals and competing against Fire/Chromcast and then it morphed into this significantly more powerful lowerend XSX. Hell it could be both coming at different times. Cuz outside of the net I have not heard a peep about this device(s).

 

[Bladed Thesis]

I agree! It's the best move for MS indeed. MS is more focused on the subscription model and making that $10-$15 a month (and that's fine), than having just a console. It's why they are releasing all their 1st party games on Gamepass Day One. Plus why all their 1st party games will be on PC on Day One also.

They have a different business model next-gen, than Sony. So, it's only right that MS and Sony's strategry be different too.



The only thing that's changed is that they will be coming out both on Day One of the generation starting. So, which one does MS show in the ADs this holiday season? And will those ADs show a price of "THAT" particular console that they show?

Again, the exact same way that happens now?

They have ads that target the One X and ads that target the One S running all the time currently. This already happens and the two consoles launching at the same time doesn't change that message.

I could see ads on Twitch, Youtube, etc, places where gaming stuff occurs being Series X focused. I see ads on TV, ads during big events, ads targeted to certain demographics saying things like "Starting at..." to loop in the Lockhart. This is the marketing that goes on today and I think getting hung up on them launching at the same time kind of misses the point. That really isn't a concern if MS does the Lockhart and is targeting two very different markets.

 

[Gavon West]

They will be doa


Yes, but how to define doa?

You tell me. Define DOA and we can see about a wager. I'm definitely in.

 

[Blade2.0]

I like the way Sony is doing this a lot more. One configuration with BC. In 3 to 4 years probably a Pro version like PS4. I don't understand why MS is doing two (maybe 3?) SKUs with variable power outputs. Just leads to confusion for casuals and parents.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Did you even look at my post? It has three links. The last one is from February 2020. I was clear that I was posting the articles in order. And FYI, I said Sony has financial issues, not Playstation. Although the last article does not exclude PlayStation.

That I am having to now somehow justify myself is a complete joke. People reply in an dishonest manner and then I'm seen as the bad guy.

Sounds like the PlayStation division is slowing a bit because next gen consoles are about to be released at the end of the year. Still they are still outputting some pretty impressive figures even with the slow down.

 

[TLZ]

I cant believe the amount of energy you guys are are wasting over nothing

Buy or dont buy, its all personal choice

I just finished an 6 hour online session on my 0.23 Teraflop PS3, and i love this console, it gives me my fighting game and shmup fix

It used to satisfy my racing game fix, however my racing fix is now provided by a real car!! And im spending £7000 this year on a turbo conversion to take it to 600bhp

All money i saved by skipping this generation, and probably will skip every other future gen as im satisfied by a 0.25 teraflops PS3

Just like you want that powerful 600bhp turbo engine, many want powerful consoles too

 

[sendit]

I like the way Sony is doing this a lot more. One configuration with BC. In 3 to 4 years probably a Pro version like PS4. I don't understand why MS is doing two (maybe 3?) SKUs with variable power outputs. Just leads to confusion for casuals and parents.

Don't rule Sony out with a two SKU option.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Don't rule Sony out with a two SKU option.

Nah sony will do pro in 2023 on 5nm+ not at launch

 

[mckmas8808]

You make a ton of assumptions here that genuinely sound like FUD.

Why would they only advertise one console over the other? They are two different products for two different consumers. There is no confusion to be had. They are not products that can be easily confused. One is a premium with more features and one is a baseline.

"As you said, the average consumer tends to buy the cheaper model and not the premium model. But in videogames, who exactly is your average consumer? The answer depends on when the platform holder launched their console. Within the first 2 years or so, the average gamer will actually want to buy the premium console (which is typically the one that offers them the most value). We know this for sure! And it looks like the XSX will offer more long-term value than XSS."

I don't really understand what you are saying here. The average consumer is just that..the average consumer. The hardcore crowd never makes up the majority of the market in this scenario. The most value is exactly why Lockhart exists in the first place. Saying the XSS offers less value doesn't make any sense as the value is perceived by the longevity of the product. By eliminating the high price point of entry into next gen you get the consumer that typically would buy a console in the latter portion of the life cycle much sooner thus locking them in to the ecosystem much longer than you would by having them buy into the product years down the line.

Typically the more casual consumer in the gaming space buys the console when it hits the price point they want. See the PS2, PS3 and the PS4 sales. The more hardcore crowd buys it the first year when its at its highest price, but they sustains long-term sales which are the last 70 percent of the products life by dropping the price to a level that the person who is more casual about the medium sees as a good jumping in point. Lockhart offers this day 1 instead of having to try and entice the consumer down the line, but then also gives them an even cheaper entry point in the following years as they can drop the price on Lockhart even further.

- Question: Why would they only advertise one console over the other?

- Answer: Because it's easier and cheaper. Why spend extra money on advertising one console if it's only selling 20% of the total hardware sales? The PS4 Pro sells 20% of the total PS4 generation sales and they don't show it as much as the OG PS4. Sometimes they'll show both consoles in some commercials.

- Your Statement: The hardcore crowd never makes up the majority of the market in this scenario. The most value is exactly why Lockhart exists in the first place. Saying the XSS offers less value doesn't make any sense as the value is perceived by the longevity of the product.

- My Answer: I'll agree to disagree here. In the first 12-18 months, most of the gamers buying the new consoles "ARE" hardcore gamers. They\Us will be the majority in the short-term. And I'm not sure how many of those "casual" gamers will jump into next-gen via Lockhart. We'll have to wait and see. To me, even $300 isn't the price that they are looking for. I always thought $199 was the price those people would jump in at. And what happens when some of these "casual" gamers buy a 4K TV for $299 or less within the next 2 years? I'm just not sure it'll be best for them to buy a Lockhart console unless it's a secondary console.

 

[CrustyBritches]

With Theme 1, wouldn't those consumers mainly be better at getting an Xbox One X for a cheaper price this holiday season since all 1st party games will be playable on that console for the next 18 months or so? I'm assuming the X1X will cost $100 less than Lockhart this holiday season.

Plus with Gamepass, X1X is the cheapest, yet best bang for casuals buck imo.

According to the NovaMonbasa leak, it seems MS was targeting $499/$249 under the assumption that PS5 would be $399. If the re-tooled PS5 comes in at $449-499, then MS would probably be comfortable having the Lockhart at $299. Lockhart occupies the same performance tier as X1X, but with Zen 2 CPU, SSD, feature parity with the XSX GPU. If any Xbox One console is left on the market it should be the Maverick/SAD at $149-199.

 

[Nikana]

- Question: Why would they only advertise one console over the other?

- Answer: Because it's easier and cheaper. Why spend extra money on advertising one console if it's only selling 20% of the total hardware sales? The PS4 Pro sells 20% of the total PS4 generation sales and they don't show it as much as the OG PS4. Sometimes they'll show both consoles in some commercials.

- Your Statement: The hardcore crowd never makes up the majority of the market in this scenario. The most value is exactly why Lockhart exists in the first place. Saying the XSS offers less value doesn't make any sense as the value is perceived by the longevity of the product.

- My Answer: I'll agree to disagree here. In the first 12-18 months, most of the gamers buying the new consoles "ARE" hardcore gamers. They\Us will be the majority in the short-term. And I'm not sure how many of those "casual" gamers will jump into next-gen via Lockhart. We'll have to wait and see. To me, even $300 isn't the price that they are looking for. I always thought $199 was the price those people would jump in at. And what happens when some of these "casual" gamers buy a 4K TV for $299 or less within the next 2 years? I'm just not sure it'll be best for them to buy a Lockhart console unless it's a secondary console.

I am not sure how to respond without sounding like a prick but if you really think they are going to advertise one of the consoles and not the other you are ignorant or have zero perspective on how advertising works. You can advertise both machines in one ad. It doesn't have to be cut and dry series X ads and Series S ads. But lets say even in a weird scenario where they only advertise one of the consoles in an ad, it doesn't matter as long as it sells more consoles. Advertising is about how much it costs, its about how much you gain. You weigh the value of the ad vs the value of the revenue gained.

No one is arguing that the hardcore get into the eco system first. That's exactly what happens and that's the point of Lockhart like I previously stated. Its to get people into the ecosystem that normally wait for the price cuts or buy the last gen systems later in the life cycle.

What does having a 4K tv matter or when they purchase it? Lockhart isn't suddenly not going to work if a consumer gets a new TV. If the argument is well now they will want a Series X that's been proven many times before that a majority of people that have 4K sets don't ever see 4K content on it. If you are waiting this long to get into 4K then its not a selling feature for you and Lockhart targeting 1080/1440 makes no difference.

The price point makes sense in the context of the market. The $299 entry point is fairly common in this age for entry level tech. Phones, Tablets, Laptops etc. Plus that will be MSRP meaning it will drop lower with sales, bundles, etc.

 

[DaGwaphics]

- My Answer: I'll agree to disagree here. In the first 12-18 months, most of the gamers buying the new consoles "ARE" hardcore gamers. They\Us will be the majority in the short-term. And I'm not sure how many of those "casual" gamers will jump into next-gen via Lockhart. We'll have to wait and see. To me, even $300 isn't the price that they are looking for. I always thought $199 was the price those people would jump in at. And what happens when some of these "casual" gamers buy a 4K TV for $299 or less within the next 2 years? I'm just not sure it'll be best for them to buy a Lockhart console unless it's a secondary console.

The question becomes, do "casuals" wait purely because of choice? Or, do they wait based on affordability of the system (waiting on them price cuts)? If the latter, what happens if MS pulled an end-around and grabbed the lion share of that latent group early? I'm sure a lot of 4k TV owners are buying PS4 Base and One s now, lockhart will still work on those TVs too. People that buy 4k TVs for 4K TV would probably want the 4K console, those that just buy what's available cheap on the shelf probably aren't thinking about it much. Time will tell, it will be interesting to watch if this thing releases as it is being discussed.

 

[mckmas8808]

According to the NovaMonbasa leak, it seems MS was targeting $499/$249 under the assumption that PS5 would be $399. If the re-tooled PS5 comes in at $449-499, then MS would probably be comfortable having the Lockhart at $299. Lockhart occupies the same performance tier as X1X, but with Zen 2 CPU, SSD, feature parity with the XSX GPU. If any Xbox One console is left on the market it should be the Maverick/SAD at $149-199.

How do you know the PS5 was "re-tooled"? And why would MS even know that (if it was true)?

I am not sure how to respond without sounding like a prick but if you really think they are going to advertise one of the consoles and not the other you are ignorant or have zero perspective on how advertising works. You can advertise both machines in one ad. It doesn't have to be cut and dry series X ads and Series S ads. But lets say even in a weird scenario where they only advertise one of the consoles in an ad, it doesn't matter as long as it sells more consoles. Advertising is about how much it costs, its about how much you gain. You weigh the value of the ad vs the value of the revenue gained.

No one is arguing that the hardcore get into the eco system first. That's exactly what happens and that's the point of Lockhart like I previously stated. Its to get people into the ecosystem that normally wait for the price cuts or buy the last gen systems later in the life cycle.

What does having a 4K tv matter or when they purchase it? Lockhart isn't suddenly not going to work if a consumer gets a new TV. If the argument is well now they will want a Series X that's been proven many times before that a majority of people that have 4K sets don't ever see 4K content on it. If you are waiting this long to get into 4K then its not a selling feature for you and Lockhart targeting 1080/1440 makes no difference.

The price point makes sense in the context of the market. The $299 entry point is fairly common in this age for entry level tech. Phones, Tablets, Laptops etc. Plus that will be MSRP meaning it will drop lower with sales, bundles, etc.

- I do not believe only one with be marketed or advertised. I'm saying one of them will have to be the marketing focus. One of them will be on more billboards, commercials, magazines, etc than the other. And when they are both in the same shot, which one will be in the front? Which one will be in the background? These are questions MS is thinking about right now as we type.

- And to the later point, we'll see who is right. I'll agree to disagree. I strongly believe selling two consoles like this will cause unneeded confusion, but it's probably best for MS given their place in the console space. They are playing a different game where it's mainly about subscriptions and NOT mainly about selling console hardware. Just like how Nintendo with the Wii decided to change their business strategy and not chase the power consoles, MS has decided that subscriptions is where it's at for them, so I understand why they are willing to go this route.

The question becomes, do "casuals" wait purely because of choice? Or, do they wait based on affordability of the system (waiting on them price cuts)? If the latter, what happens if MS pulled an end-around and grabbed the lion share of that latent group early? I'm sure a lot of 4k TV owners are buying PS4 Base and One s now, lockhart will still work on those TVs too. People that buy 4k TVs for 4K TV would probably want the 4K console, those that just buy what's available cheap on the shelf probably aren't thinking about it much. Time will tell, it will be interesting to watch if this thing releases as it is being discussed.

I 1000% agree with these questions here. The future will answer this for us.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Well, we'll have to see if consumers care about a cheap lower powered alternative at launch with more powerful systems.

I think the only benchmark we can see in history is 360 and PS3 launching with pricier systems with bigger HDD, than the small HDD version at $100+ lower price.

Pretty sure most gamers paid the extra $100 or so for a bigger HDD. But this time, the difference is maybe closer to $200 and a less powerful system.

If gamers were willing to pay $100 for more HDD, I'm pretty confident they will pay $200 for a more powerful system. Out of Lockhart, PS5 and SeX, wouldn't be surprised if Lockhart sold the least by a mile.

 

[Vawn]

Does anybody know what's the percentage of 4K TVs sold in 2018 and/or 2019?

Do they even still make 1080p TVs? 4K TVs are dirt cheap now.

 

[Jayjayhd34]

Do they even still make 1080p TVs? 4K TVs are dirt cheap now.

Sony still do but only in 32''. So most new tvs sales will be 4k however there's still second hand sales. I

 

[CrustyBritches]

How do you know the PS5 was "re-tooled"? And why would MS even know that (if it was true)?

I stated that MS was targeting $499/$249 under the assumption that PS5 would be $399, I never said MS knew anything about a re-tooling.

I think their desperate push to "10TF" with the help of variable clocks speaks for itself. The January 2019 NovaMonbasa leak that outed the 12TF/4TF Anaconda/Lockhart states that PS5 was originally targeting Holiday 2019. That was probably the 1GHz Gonzalo ES that Apisak found in January 2019 then 1.8GHz QS he found in April. That's likely the same SoC NovaMonbasa is referring to when he states 8+TF PS5 in his leak that predates the Apisak data mine.

Later in August 2019 Komachi finds a new SoC Oberon that clocks at 2GHz. From there, they use a variable frequency strategy that lets them push to 2.2GHz.

Lastly, AquariusZi states in October 2019 that, "Arden is progressing faster. OBR is still in the early stage and Arden is bigger than OBR" and later in November 2019, "Oberon continued to re-test, Holiday 2020 really catch up". This supports the idea that PS5 was originally targeting 8-9TF, then re-tooled for 2GHz, then eventually gets variable clocks for 2.23GHz.

 

[sendit]

I stated that MS was targeting $499/$249 under the assumption that PS5 would be $399, I never said MS knew anything about a re-tooling.

I think their desperate push to "10TF" with the help of variable clocks speaks for itself. The January 2019 NovaMonbasa leak that outed the 12TF/4TF Anaconda/Lockhart states that PS5 was originally targeting Holiday 2019. That was probably the 1GHz Gonzalo ES that Apisak found in January 2019 then 1.8GHz QS he found in April. That's likely the same SoC NovaMonbasa is referring to when he states 8+TF PS5 in his leak that predates the Apisak data mine.

Later in August 2019 Komachi finds a new SoC Oberon that clocks at 2GHz. From there, they use a variable frequency strategy that let's them push to 2.2GHz.

Lastly, AquariusZi states in October 2019 that, "Arden is progressing faster. OBR is still in the early stage and Arden is bigger than OBR" and later in November 2019, "Oberon continued to re-test, Holiday 2020 really catch up". This supports the idea that PS5 was originally target 8-9TF, then re-tooled for 2GHz, then eventually gets variable clocks for 2.23GHz.

In other words, you're making assumptions hoping they will come true.

 

[KAL2006]

Do they even still make 1080p TVs? 4K TVs are dirt cheap now.

Regardless if you can't get a 1080p TV plenty of people watch content that isn't 4K on their 4K TV. I know so many people who have SD Netflix or at most HD Netflix tier. I know people who have a 4KTV and only bought a PS4 Slim. Hell I'm playing Switch on my 4K TV and perfectly happy with it.

 

[CrustyBritches]

In other words, you're making assumptions hoping they will come true.

Nice troll, buddy.

 

[Vawn]

Regardless if you can't get a 1080p TV plenty of people watch content that isn't 4K on their 4K TV. I know so many people who have SD Netflix or at most HD Netflix tier. I know people who have a 4KTV and only bought a PS4 Slim. Hell I'm playing Switch on my 4K TV and perfectly happy with it.

As am I.

 

[zeioIIDX]

Screw all that. Just put out 1 system per company gen and call it a day, goddamn...I'm tired of all this launch model, pro model, deluxe model, portable model, Revision 2/3/4/5/6, etc bullshit. I mean, can you imagine if there were a Dreamcast, Dreamcast Pro, Dreamcast Deluxe alongside 2 or 3 models of a Playstation 2, a couple models of an Xbox, and a couple models of a GameCube? Who's asking for all these options? If you can't afford an Xbox Series X, oh-the-fuck-well. Why bother making a less powerful Xbox with "some" next-gen features?

 

[Jayjayhd34]

Regardless if you can't get a 1080p TV plenty of people watch content that isn't 4K on their 4K TV. I know so many people who have SD Netflix or at most HD Netflix tier. I know people who have a 4KTV and only bought a PS4 Slim. Hell I'm playing Switch on my 4K TV and perfectly happy with it.

Netflix uhd bd amazon PC gaming and the the very few ps4 pro games is the only 4k content I get.

Here in the uk we are still stuck with SD broadcast and some on demand are still SD let alone 4k. BBC iplayer is 720p.

Luckily my TV has really scalers 1080p looks really good. However watching SD content is quite painful

4k adoption has been really poor, and can't see any hope if some companies haven't even progressed to HD yet.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Regardless if you can't get a 1080p TV plenty of people watch content that isn't 4K on their 4K TV. I know so many people who have SD Netflix or at most HD Netflix tier. I know people who have a 4KTV and only bought a PS4 Slim. Hell I'm playing Switch on my 4K TV and perfectly happy with it.

So true. There's a difference between consumers that actively upgraded to 4K and those that had to replace a broken set and bought what's available. Full HD has been a thing since forever, but DVDs still outsell BR. LOL