Support NeoGAF

[lightskintwin]

i think you forgot to incorporate what i was quoting....

Your point seem to make some claim that they weren't "virtually" unknowns when they were still unknown. It's like you took the definition literally as if they didn't have a portfolio and were just plucked off the street.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

Your point seem to make some claim that they weren't "virtually" unknowns when they were still unknown. It's like you took the definition literally as if they didn't have a portfolio and were just plucked off the street.

you can read their wikipedia pages. the ones he quoted weren't exactly unknown (except Chris Pine --- i don't know how that beautiful bastard did it). you will also see that hollywood does believe in bankable stars as the ones who appear to have flopped don't get second chances (unless we count battleship).

 

[lightskintwin]

you can read their wikipedia pages. the ones he quoted weren't exactly unknown (except Chris Pine --- i don't know how that beautiful bastard did it). you will also see that hollywood does believe in bankable stars as the ones who appear to have flopped don't get second chances (unless we count battleship).

Hollywood believes it to an extent, do you know how many opportunities people like Colin Farrell, Chris Hemsworth, Ryan Reynolds (Deadpool finally paid off), etc.... Historically Hollywood's major formula is good looking White males as leading men.

 

[Nepenthe]

. . .

Her name is Mokoto Kusinagi.

What do you think she is, Irish?

She's a robot so she doesn't have an ethnicity. Neener neener, take that SJWs.

 

[cartographer]

. . .

Her name is Mokoto Kusinagi.

What do you think she is, Irish?

Always came across as Polish, to me. I feel sorry for anybody who thinks differently because I'm awesome.

 

[border]

Sam Worthington got a shot in Avatar because of the studio's immense faith in James Cameron.

Armie Hammer got the lead in Lone Ranger, likely because the studio felt they could offset that risk by putting Johnny Depp in as co-star.

Chris Pine (and the Star Wars cast) was in a film that is such a huge cultural phenomenon/IP that they don't need to hire big names. In a reboot like JJ Abrhams' Star Trek, it's almost a bad idea to hire incredibly famous actors since those actors will bring all their previous roles and personas along with them and people won't associate them with the classic character they're playing. Tom Cruise would not work very well as Captain Kirk.

Marvel's strategy seems to largely revolve around getting multi-film commitments out of actors when they are young and cheap, then riding those to their conclusion. Their IP, brand, marketing, etc is big enough to overcome casting unknowns.

Taylor Kitsch's movies were both huge bombs so I'm not sure they really make a good case for casting unknowns. I honestly have no idea what the studio was thinking in those cases. Battleship and John Carter were iffy propositions even if they had hired Brad Pitt or Clooney.

If you look at most of those "unknown hires" there was often some mitigating factor that offset the risk of getting a no-name lead. With Ghost In The Shell don't think there's any way around it though. The IP does not have enough recognition to sell itself.

 

[lightskintwin]

I saw this question and answer on Quora from 2 years ago and it's still relevant.

Is it possible for me to become a hollywood level actor?
I am South Korean International student. This summer I will be going to US to attend UIUC. Although I've selected my interest in health science, I am also interested in acting as well. I will be receiving my American citizenship in like 2~3 years so nationality is not a problem. But I am concerned whether it is possible for an Asian to be able to top actor in hollywood because most of the movies in my country is highly based on the looks of the actor instead of their true acting skill. I have worked as an assistant director in my schools Drama Team and my acting skill was praised by my peers and teacher alike. On daily basis, I practice my skills on people by acting like someone else (method acting) and observe their reaction. What is my possibility?

Jon ********, I am an actor & I direct actors
The chances of any of us becoming a Hollywood level actor are so infinitesimally small, it might seem not even worth trying. And yet, I did. I have three degrees in theatre -- a BFA in Acting, a Post Bac in Theatre Education, and an MFA in Directing. By the time I moved to Hollywood, I had been working as a professional actor for over 15 years. I had been trained in film and television acting, as well as my extensive stage training and resume. Needless to say, I was well-trained and well-prepared for a career in Hollywood. Sadly, life doesn't quite work out the way you think it ought to. I had money problems, I had trouble getting an agent, I took bad classes that didn't advance my career, I joined acting projects that didn't showcase my talent, and I arrived at a time right before the Internet would change everything. There was no Twitter, LinkedIn, or Facebook, and I didn't have my own career website. I got few auditions, and mostly worked non-acting jobs in Los Angeles. I did a few small independent films, but nothing to speak of. My stage work was far more substantial, and I eventually realized that the stage had always been my true love, and where I was most successful. I left L.A. and returned to the theatre and a successful career on stage and in the classroom.

Now that was just my experience, and many things have changed in the 15+ years since I lived there. The Internet will be an incredibly useful way of marketing yourself, and will hopefully get you more access to agents. But at the very core, even though technology has changed and perhaps made it easier for actors, becoming a working actor, much less a star, in Hollywood is still a monumental task, and one only a few achieve. There are SO MANY people competing for the same exact job. And no matter how well-prepared you may be, there will always be someone better looking, better trained, with more screen credits, and even more talent. There will always be the perfect person the director and casting agent are looking for, and 99.9 % of the time, that won't be you.

However, you have to live for that slim percentage you may be the person they're looking for. That has to be what keeps you going.

If you want me to be even more honest with you, I'm gonna tell you like it is. As much as America's opinions on race and social justice have evolved, we still have a LONG WAY to go. Nobody wants to admit they're a bigot, but this country is filled with people who have unenlightened views about people they regard as different from them. This mistrust of minorities is deeply embedded in American culture, and can be found in our advertising, our religion, our tastes, our laws, our criminal justice system, and perhaps nowhere as obvious as in our entertainment. As of now, America is majority white, and the films and television shows we have historically watched have been white, patriarchal, Christian, and homogenous in nearly every way. While the business is making great strides to cater to a more diverse audience, the reality is, there are still remarkably few parts for minority actors.

The roles for minorities have been few, and that goes for African Americans and Hispanic actors, who both represent sizable populations in this country. A recent study by children’s book publisher Lee & Low Books reveals that just eight of the top 100 best-selling sci-fi and fantasy films from Hollywood had a protagonist of color. Worse, only two minority actors landed lead roles: Will Smith, who alone played six of those characters, and Keanu Reeves. Both actors have starred in major films since the 1990s.

Asians made up just 4.4 percent of speaking characters across last year’s top 100 grossing movies, according to a University of Southern California study. The figure is slightly lower than the total percentage of Asians in the country, which is just over five percent. The difference may not be much, but the numbers belie the difficulty of becoming an Asian-American Hollywood star. Although Asian Americans are now the nation’s fastest-growing demographic, their presence in films has gotten visibly smaller since 2008.

Less than five minutes from Paramount Pictures is the bustling and thriving Los Angeles neighborhood of Koreatown, with thousands of Koreans working hard and making a life in America. Less than five hundred miles north, in the Silicon Valley, Asians are the majority, and make up over 50% of the tech work force. But despite these realities, Hollywood hasn't been fair or just in representing the Asian on screen. There are shockingly few roles for Asian actors, and almost no lead roles. What roles there are, are often grossly stereotypical and provide comic relief at the expense of the actor's ethnicity. It is all but impossible to see an Asian actor in a role that isn't the quirky goofy sidekick (Ken Jeong in The Hangover) or the martial arts action star (Jackie Chan in Rush Hour). I can't even think of an Asian actor performing in a deeply moving dramatic film or as a romantic leading man. I know there must be a few, but the closest thing I can think of was Daniel Dae Kim and Yunjin Kim's moving performances as a complex and nuanced Korean couple on the hit TV show Lost. Regardless, the list is short.

Why do I tell you all this? It's not to discourage you from going to Hollywood and trying to make it as an actor. Not at all. In fact, I think you should. I think if directors and casting agents saw more Asian actors auditioning for them, they might start to consider casting more of them -- whether the role was written that way or not. I think that everyone should be allowed to follow their dreams. You should never be caught lying on your deathbed regretting the things you DIDN'T do. You will never know until you try. I tried, and although things didn't work out for me, it made me stronger, and it renewed my love for the stage. It gave me an experience I will never forget. You need to do that for yourself.

But you didn't ask this question to have someone sugarcoat an answer for you and pat you on the back. You asked if it was "possible" for you to become a Hollywood actor. The answer to that is YES. Anything is possible, especially in a country like America. But it will not be easy. The odds are stacked impossibly high against the average white actor, and are staggeringly worse for actors of color. Asian actors are probably the most underrepresented in Hollywood, and offer the least amount of roles. The truth is, filmmakers are not even going to be considering an asian for a role, even if it wouldn't change or alter the script in any way. Even where the addition might improve the script. Because they haven't been trained to see you in the role. We see so few Asians on screen, we forget to put them up there, and you can see what a vicious cycle that can be. YOU will have the difficult task of making them see you. You have to make yourself indispensable, and worth casting. Don't let them forget your face, and teach them the lesson that all Asians don't look alike, and you are living proof. Whether you want to or not, you will be a proxy or representative of every Asian everywhere, as you attempt to break into Hollywood, and change the color code. As progressive as Hollywood is, it is still one of the most conservative bastions of institutional racism and mild bigotry.

Becoming a Hollywood actor was all but impossible for me, a young white male with good looks, an extensive resume, and solid training. For an Asian actor like yourself, it will be even harder. Once you accept that, then you can go try and conquer Hollywood. I wish you the best!

 

[Subpar Spatula]

Hollywood believes it to an extent, do you know how many opportunities people like Colin Farrell, Chris Hemsworth, Ryan Reynolds (Deadpool finally paid off), etc.... Historically Hollywood's major formula is good looking White males as leading men.

100% agreed for the bolded. zero argument from me.

but i'm just trying to understand these arguments that white men are given grace periods. let's not pretend colin farrell or ryan reynolds haven't had big movies flop and they were sent to <$30mil hell. chris hemsworth sold his soul to the devil so he gets a pass until marvel boots him. at this point we're arguing over whether or not a <$30mil sycamore film is Hollywood or not. that's key when discussing "many opportunities".

because, let's be honest, the last time hollywood plucked someone off the streets we got david boreanaz. my contention was with the virtually unknown which is quite OT from the thread. you can see my stance on ScarJo being the Major on post 478.

 

[LionPride]

100% agreed for the bolded. zero argument from me.

but i'm just trying to understand these arguments that white men are given grace periods. let's not pretend colin farrell or ryan reynolds haven't had big movies flop and they were sent to <$30mil hell. chris hemsworth sold his soul to the devil so he gets a pass until marvel boots him. at this point we're arguing over whether or not a <$30mil sycamore film is Hollywood or not. that's key when discussing "many opportunities".

because, let's be honest, the last time hollywood plucked someone off the streets we got david boreanaz.

Sam Worthington
Jai Courtney
Whatever white guy they try to push as the next big thing who fizzles out because they really can't act worth a damn

 

[lightskintwin]

100% agreed for the bolded. zero argument from me.

but i'm just trying to understand these arguments that white men are given grace periods. let's not pretend colin farrell or ryan reynolds haven't had big movies flop and they were sent to <$30mil hell. chris hemsworth sold his soul to the devil so he gets a pass until marvel boots him. at this point we're arguing over whether or not a <$30mil sycamore film is Hollywood or not. that's key when discussing "many opportunities".

because, let's be honest, the last time hollywood plucked someone off the streets we got david boreanaz.

I don't even know who David Boreanaz is... googles, ok he looks familar, he's never been a leading man in an Hollywood film, has he?

 

[Zero315]

Alright, I'm a do a bit of research on these guys:

Taylor Kitsch: was in Friday Night Lights which was sort of popular and critically acclaimed. Snakes on a Plane helped (ok not). For John Carter, remember he was just getting off his Friday Night Light's high similar to how Bryan Cranston or Idris Elba HAVE to be in every movie since The Wire, Breaking Bad, and Luthor. He has fizzled a bit since those days so he's no longer as bankable as we may think.

Okay, sure. An argument could be made for Kitsch. Even though being on a hit drama says almost nothing about being able to lead an action movie franchise. Also, Cranston has been in the industry since the 80's and Elba has been cast as lead in very few movies since Luthor.

Sam Worthinton: he had 11 movies before Terminator Salvation which he wasn't the main character. He did put in his due in some recognizable movies to eventually land himself a co-star role against Christian Bale in Salvation. Avatar came out the same year but this isn't a movie led by Sam Worthington but James Cameron. You could have replaced Jake Sully with any random mother fucker and it would make the exact same amount of money. Even Idris Elba.

Armie Hammer: similar career start as Sam Worthing except he had Social Network cred and J Edgar with Leonardio DiCaprio. It doesn't strike me as too odd he would eventually get cast for a big budget movie. The Lone Ranger does seem to lean towards Jack Sparrow, though. Since those days Mr. Hammer doesn't seem to be handed any lead in big budgets, though.

These two, however, I call bull on. I looked at the 11 movies Worthington had under his belt and I can safely say I've heard of two, and of those two I've seen one which was Hart's War.

Absolutely nothing in either of their filmographies say "cast me as lead in your million dollar action blockbusters".

Hugh Jackman: his breakout role was in an ensemble blockbuster movie that cost $75 million to make. The studio took a very low risk.

Hugh Jackman was cast alongside people like Halle Berry, Patrick Stewart, and Ian McKellan to play not only one of the most story important character in X-Men, but also probably the most well known character from that property.

They're not virtually unknown (except Chris Pine -- how that fucker do it?!), they got a decent portfolio behind them and the ones who do perform well seem to have continued success. But folks like Taylor Kitsch and Sam Worthington (unless a new Titans movie comes) and Armie Hammer aren't exactly getting big leads in blockbusters nowadays.

Being cast in a bunch of movies that people haven't seen or heard of is the definition of virtually unknown, and they aren't being cast as leads anymore because they weren't actually bankable, they were just white.

ScarJo has a decent portfolio behind her that makes be bankable to a degree (jn their minds).

She has Marvel behind her. I'm not big on her as an actress, I think she's had a handful of decent performances and some pretty bad ones. Maybe I'm still just bitter about wasting money to see Lucy to judge her acting ability clearly...

Like, I'm not saying whitewashing doesn't exist or Hollywood isn't biased against Asians or other minorities due to the perceived lost profits but it's not like 100% of all white leads are handed big budget roles for no raisin, they all were visible at some point. The whiteness part really only seems to matters when comparing two capable candidates but the studio takes the white person. Except Chris Pine.

No one is saying all white leads are handed big budget roles for no reason, but studios are far more willing to throw out those roles to realtively unknown white people than even known PoC.

The "bankable star" argument only comes up when talking about white washing or wondering why a PoC wasn't cast. There was no talk anywhere about Start Trek or Avatar needing a "bankable star".

 

[cartographer]

Just to be clear, pushing these white dudes in a bunch of ensembles with maybe one or two bigger roles is also an opportunity that most actors of colors don't get from major Hollywood studios. And ti's often a precursor or a potential justification for handing them a starring role.

That's Jai Courtney's path so far, despite him, at his best, usually being a nothing on screen. Courtney's path is virtually inaccessible to minorities. But Hollywood apparently saw Spartacus or Die Hard and thought "how many franchises and genre films can we force this guy into?"

 

[Whompa02]

. . .

Her name is Mokoto Kusinagi.

What do you think she is, Irish?

That name is an alias given to her. It's not her real name. Do you think Jason Bourne is his real name?

I even linked a breakdown of her past in the same post that you quoted. Try harder and do some research next time about the subject matter you're trying to talk about.

You're still missing the point.

you possibly missed the entire point of the franchise.

 

[YesManKablaam]

Are people still trying to make the argument that without Johansson attached as a name then the film would never have been made?

Seriously? It's Ghost in the Shell.

It's one of the most iconic properties in all of manga. It has a legacy that has spanned print, tv, film and videogames over the last 28 years. It's influenced and inspired a countless amount of filmmakers, notably box office juggernaut James Cameron and being a real driving influence for The Wachowskis when making The Matrix. The second film is one of a very select list of anime films to be screened at the Cannes Film Festival and was in competition for the Palme D'Or that year.

As an intellectual property it has a far broader appeal than many manga, and when factoring in Weta as leading the vfx side of things it's audience can be further broadened to appeal to the visual spectacle crowd familiar with Weta's past work. The idea of Scarlett Johansson being needed to guarantee draw is laughable. Sure it helped with Lucy, but this is fucking Ghost in the Shell.