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Senran Kagura Burst Re:Newal delayed to remove "Intimacy Mode" from PS4 version in the West; Steam version is intact
- Thread starter Battlechili
- Start date
Zambatoh
Member
This is the exact same arrogant attitude that Microsoft was pushing prior to the XBOne's launch.
DigitalScrap
Member
“Ask PlayStation UK said:
Ugh. What kind of snarky crap is that?
And then to say to refer to the publisher of the game (in multiple tweets) is silly, since they know the only thing they are going to say is that Sony’s new policy forced them to change the game.
I guess we’ll only continue to get more non-answers from Sony which is the norm now on anything. I usually don’t buy into the whole “arrogant Sony” thing that gets thrown around because it is usually exaggerated, but i’m starting to think that there may be something to it. It seems that Sony now thinks that people won’t go elsewhere due to the decisions they have been making lately.
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Enygger_Tzu
Banned
One has to wonder what are those "standards" Sony's PR persons say here, and where we, as customers can find and read those standards?
Does anyone with Twitter access care to ask them this question?
Does anyone with Twitter access care to ask them this question?
CatCouch
Member
Since I did get responses from Ask Playstation UK here:
You can follow chain of tweets and see if we get a response. I asked at the bottom.
Edit:
I was told to just contact the publisher. We're not getting answers here.
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Dark_Tzitzimine
Member
This is hilarious
lifa-cobex
Member
That is fucking hilarious.
Genuine LOL.
Please keep in mind the amount of Fifa games sell here in the UK.
Possible one of the worst pr statements I've ever seen from a games company.
Jesus tap dancing Christ.
Of whom will defiantly purchase the game because of it.....
Do company's actually relies that through of all the progressiveness, at the end of the day you still have to make a profit?
This game for example...
Personally it's a nope from me. But for the people the devs are catering to. I'm sure they wont be happy that the product is being stripped. And I'll bet my last pound that it won't be price adjusted to that fact of removed features.
Literally, Wut R U doin M8?
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lifa-cobex
Member
Isa
Member
And those naughty bits are interactive to boot, nothing quite like dangling from a dongle.
The Mad Draklor
Member
Well, I unloaded on the Sony UK account Twitter. Don't worry, I wasn't screeching, but I also didn't mince words.
EDIT: Take with a grain of salt, but there is chance that Sony may even delist the previous Senran Kagura games.
EDIT: Take with a grain of salt, but there is chance that Sony may even delist the previous Senran Kagura games.
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michaelius
Banned
Looks like I'll get next few Sony games used
Kinda sad that I have to do it again (previous one was after they started completely ignoring Vita while it was still supported by 3rd parties)
Mobile Suit Gooch
Grundle: The Awakening
Should we complain about TLoUs 2 lesbian kiss scene? No?
michaelius
Banned
That would be counter-productive we want more freedom for all developers so mimicking other side get's us nowhere.
The Mad Draklor
Member
One of the main reasons why I still game on console is because of physical media and the occasional steelbook cases. However, the value of creator freedom and no censorship far outweighs those things.
Mobile Suit Gooch
Grundle: The Awakening
True. But it'll at least show a double-standard. I guess.
WaterAstro
Member
There's a difference between kissing and groping underaged (highschool freshmen for context) anime girls' tits and ass to hear them say "No!" "Don't touch me there!".
I don't really mind that stuff, but I'm not going to sit back and think "Yeah, everyone thinks it's okay to do that." Sony standards have changed, and even one game I think is undeserving of censorship, Super Seducer, fell victim to this change, but in this case, Sony's case for censorship is a lot stronger. I'd say it would be difficult to see DoA Xtreme 4 if it had something similar to this groping feature.
The Mad Draklor
Member
This is rather similar to the violent video games leads to real life violence argument. Just like with violent media, games that have lewd content does not lead to real life sexual harassment/assault. There is no empirical evidence that proves this claim. In addition, why should you care about what other people play? You care about what you play. Everyone else will mind their own business.
Xaero Gravity
NEXT LEVEL lame™
I got #MeTooed after playing Super Seducer.
Maybe I'll get #MewTooed after playing Pokemon Let's Go
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WaterAstro
Member
So are you saying we should embrace underaged sex in our movies, tv, and games because it's just fantasy?
Violence is a completely different item, something we learn about in school in history. Underage pornography is simply a taboo.
Battlechili
Banned
Someone typed this
The Mad Draklor
Member
Pulling a Cathy Newman, eh?
Underage sex is rather different from what you were criticizing and the feature that was removed from the PS4 version of Senran Kagura Re:Newal. It's a feature that lets you grope cartoonish anime waifus. How did you go from that to underage sex?
Your response is completely bunk. Like I said, there is no empirical evidence that shows the existence of lewd content in video games lead to real life sexual harassment/assault increases.
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Iaterain
Member
Counter-argument, would you play "Senran Kagura Burst Re:Newal" in front of your mother/sister/wife/any underage?
The lesbian kiss and elements of violence that happens in "The last of Us 2" are widely acceptable in our modern society,
while things that happens in Senran Kagura are acceptable in Japan only.
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WaterAstro
Member
Because it's still depicting underaged girls being sexually harassed, and shit like that is straight up banned in a lot of countries. There's nothing about it training child predators, it's just simply banned in places. Sony no longer wants that stuff because it's a hot topic in Japan politics to finally ban ficitional child porn.
DigitalScrap
Member
Well, I unloaded on the Sony UK account Twitter. Don't worry, I wasn't screeching, but I also didn't mince words.
EDIT: Take with a grain of salt, but there is chance that Sony may even delist the previous Senran Kagura games.
Wait, so they are going delist all the previously released games as well? What the hell?
Ugh. If this is going to be the direction Sony is heading as I’m sure it will end up being more than just the Senran Kagura games that this will impact - this is just the start - then I will likely be skipping the PS5. Whoever the person is who is responsible for this “new policy” needs to go.
And I do wonder if this means that a huge myriad of PS4 and Vita games are about to suddenly be delisted.
Who would have thought that NINTENDO would be more progressive that Sony? I certainly never saw this coming!
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The Mad Draklor
Member
So? I don't care nor should you care about what other people play. It's fictional and has no real life consequences.
Child porn and fictional sexual depiction of young characters are entirely different, especially when we talk about the characters being depicted in an anime style. Actual child porn is illegal because actual children are being exploited and that has real life consequences. A game feature that has groping involved does not have real life consequences.
I don't care what Japan politics say or other countries are banning this "shit" as you described. That's not an argument. That's an Appeal to Authority fallacy.
The day where I go PC full time may be closer than I thought. I might get a PS5 for an exclusive here and there, but it'll likely be not until late in the game and I'll get it second hand.
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WaterAstro
Member
It has real consequences when you go to jail.
The Mad Draklor
Member
Actual consequences as in there are victims involved. Actual consequences as in the existence of a groping feature will lead to actual harm of real people. I emphasized this multiple times already, so you're intentionally ignoring the context.
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rubenburgt
Member
"You should buy a PS4."
"Why did you bought a new monitor instead of a PS4?"
"PS4 is the only true gaming platform."
Well, because I know from Sony's past that they like to censor games. Their slogan may be "For the player" but they are definitely not for the player.
No thanks. I'm happy with my pc.
I will get this game for the pc.
"Why did you bought a new monitor instead of a PS4?"
"PS4 is the only true gaming platform."
Well, because I know from Sony's past that they like to censor games. Their slogan may be "For the player" but they are definitely not for the player.
No thanks. I'm happy with my pc.
I will get this game for the pc.
The Mad Draklor
Member
WaterAstro
Member
Again, Japan politics are heavily debating this issue as more people believe it hentai anime and manga depicting underaged girls does influence. It's not up to you or me. Sony wants to remove the feature to cover their ass if it does happen, and this groping feature isn't even relevant for the core gameplay.
The Mad Draklor
Member
Playing the ad infinitum card doesn't make your "argument" any more valid whether it's the 2nd time of the millionth.
As I already said, this is an Appeal to Authority fallacy. I only care if the media leads to actual consequences, harm, and victims. If it does not, as the empirical data suggests, then why should you and I care? I care about what the empirical evidence says, not what a bunch of politicians say.
More people believing is not proof. I want to see studies that are in consensus.
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WaterAstro
Member
"Playing blah blah latin word card". Get off your high horse dude. No one gives a shit if you like underaged hentai groping games.
You want to stop the censorship of fictional child porn? Go be Prime Minister of Japan, influence Japanese society to love fictional child porn, then maybe Sony will not censor this feature.
The Mad Draklor
Member
A logical fallacy is a logical fallacy. And you made yet another one: an ad hominem. Actually, your ad hominem proves my point perfectly. No one gives a shit if I supposedly like underaged hentai groping games. The same goes for no one giving a shit if you hate underaged hentai groping games. Therefore, mind our own businesses and no one gets hurt.
Not an argument. You're just making an Appeal to Popularity with the "more people believe that hentai and lewd games have influence" statement. I don't care how many people believe. I care about empirical results. You have shown no proof and when pressed on about it, you throw a temper tantrum.
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WaterAstro
Member
If you don't care about this issue, then why argue it? If Sony censors it, then why do you care? Where's your logic in this? If you do like it, then let everyone know about it because a lot of people will be concerned about that kind of behaviour. You're attempting to say that I'm for censoring this feature when I had exactly said that "I really don't mind that stuff." You've made assumptions about me when I have never took a side. I'm just stating why Sony is doing this.
I'm not appealing to anyone. Sony is appealing to the Japanese people who are concerned about rising child abuse cases in Japan, which this issue of record breaking child abuse statistic has become a hot topic in Japanese politics. You can believe in whatever you want, or believe people should act however you think they should act in regards to censorship, but the Japanese people are concerned about child abuse, and Sony's censorship is a result of it and political pressure.
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InterMusketeer
Member
Do you have any proof of that or is that you speculating?
CatCouch
Member
Can I see a citation for this? I haven't seen anything indicating that western censorship of Japanese games by Sony has anything to do with child abuse. This seems oddly specific of a cause, especially since Senran Kagura characters don't look like children with a selling point of the game being huge breasts.
The Mad Draklor
Member
Care about what issue, in particular? This is where I explicitly said "I don't care":
How does that relate with Sony's censorship in particular when what I bolded is on a different topic, i.e. people's beliefs vs. empirical results? Where is your logic in this?
Strawman fallacy. Show me where, in particular, where I claimed that.
Also, you may claim that you "don't mind that stuff", but there is a possibility that what you say down the line is incongruent of what said. There were two instances where you slipped up mightily. The first was when you talked about the consequence of going to jail, when the context was more about victims. I said that there is no evidence that lewd content leads to actual sexual harassment/assaults. Instances of sexual harassment and assaults mean that there are victims. You ignored that context.
Secondly, your loss of temper when I pointed out that you were just repeating the same arguments without providing any new argument is a red flag.
Edit: Actually, thirdly, you referred to the depiction of sexual harassment of underage girls (which is debatable as they are (1) played by adult seiyuus and (2) the characters tend to have large breasts which isn't common at all in teenagers) as shit. That's quite a strong reaction for someone who claims that he "[doesn't] mind that stuff".
Look up what Appeal to Popularity means.
The argument, whether it is yours or not, that it is okay for Sony to censor lewd content because of the belief that hentai and sexual games lead to child abuse is not a valid argument. I need to see empirical results. As in I want to see study after study that objectively arrives at the same conclusion as what these people believe. Have the people considered other possible factors that may not even be gaming related? The belief that x leads to bad consequences, therefore x is false (where x = Leaving lewd content uncensored) is an Appeal to Consequence fallacy, which falls under the red herring tree.
Ad infinitum once again. How about you provide actual arguments other than saying "Look, people are concerned about a problem that may not be caused by sexual content in games and probably by other factors".
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Mobile Suit Gooch
Grundle: The Awakening
I don't actually any M-rated games in front of them. So no I wouldn't. It'll be a game I'd play in private.
WaterAstro
Member
Of course it's speculation as Sony isn't going to come out with political statements, and maybe this has nothing to do with child abuse, but with the #MeToo movement. Who knows. I think they are all a factor.
Sony's shift in censorship policy wasn't evident until Super Seducer, which is after the whole Harvey Weinstein thing. Senran Kagura characters' ages are known, and they are under 18, which 18 is the legal age for real porn in Japan and America. Whether fictional porn applies is up for debate, but people in America have gone to jail for fictional child porn.
And Mad Draklor, you think you're good at arguing because you look up debate words, but you're just missing the biggest point: our society does not look kindly towards any depiction of sexual harassment. That's it. You lose.
If you want to fight this movement, go tweet out your real identity and say you love this feature that depicts sexual harassment of underaged girls and see if you gain traction.
The Mad Draklor
Member
Uh no, this was what you were trying to shove in my mouth:
That gave away your position, your willingness to misconstrue my words. Then, you shifted to "Hey, look at how many people are believe how x is bad!" That is not an argument nor a refutation against my points.
Overall, this part of your comment is yet another ad hominem attack. You're just attacking the person making the arguments rather than the arguments themselves. What also drew red flags was your lack of effort to counter my claims of your arguments as fallacies. That led to you losing your temper, hence why you can't make a valid argument in your life.
"That's it. You lose" is overall childish. Your "Playing blah, blah, blah latin card" also did not help your case. That screams, "I don't want to make sound arguments. Instead, I'll just try nyeh nyeh nyeh as much as I can to tick him off." Ironically, it backfired as the one who threw a tantrum at the end was you, not me.
Let's face it. Your arguments were not logically sound. Therefore, you did not make your case adequately. If you disagree that your arguments are fallacies, prove it.
Yep, more of this attacking the person making the argument nonsense again. Who said that I love this feature? Show me where, please.
How do you know it's not that I value the principle of creators releasing their works uncensored, regardless of how offensive the content is to certain people, as long as it does not lead to actual harm and victims? Your labored attempts to paint me as something else is rather amusing.
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CatCouch
Member
You haven't shown anything to connect Sony's decisions to Harvey Weinstien, Me Too or Japan debating child abuse. And when did Senran Kagura become porn? No one is going to jail for owning Senran Kagura games.
Interestingly enough, I work as an artist who makes erotic art often and have looked legality around art up before taking commissions and have not found any laws in the US that prevent me from posting or charging for various types of erotic content. I did look up laws around bestiality and whether anyone could count furry art that way and whether underage characters could be an issue and all I found was just sites or services having their own rules like no characters under 18. No laws I'm aware of.
I am aware of a case from 2010 of someone being charged for possession of hentai with underage characters but it was on obscenity charges for ordering it my mail, iirc.
Vtecomega
Banned
I've been telling people this for years. Sony is all about SJW propaganda and its fucking sickening.
Its no coincidence that all the biggest sjw liberal cucklords belong to sony.
- Neil cuckman
- Cory Barlog ( just read his twitter and try not to cringe.
- Guerrila games ( Their twitter page is filled with gay pride and tranny dicks)
Just to name a few.
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Ulysses 31
Gold Member
What's Nintendo done since Switch to make you sick? 0o
WaterAstro
Member
Then try to break my logic by putting your name out there in support of Senran Kagura's depiction of sexual harassment. Go show Sony what you're made of!
Of course you won't because you're just another anonymous with the latin word fallacy wiki on your second screen to try and troll on a gaming forum.
Do you really think society thinks highly of sexual harassment? Go find the fallacy in that.
It doesn't matter what caused it. Sony is changing their policy. We can only draw conclusions from current events.
There is no specific law about drawn depictions of underaged porn. I live in Canada, where it is straight up banned. I've also just refreshed myself on it, and there has been cases in 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2016, and a case where an American got arrested entering Canada with fictional child porn. Most of those cases did involve actual child porn, though it's interesting that the 2012, the actual child porn charge was dropped in a plea deal while the possession of fictional porn replaced it.
Since everyone is universally disgusted with anything in regards to child porn, fictional or not, if a person does get charged, it will be almost impossible to make their case that fictional child porn is okay once the jury sees it.
CatCouch
Member
Gay pride and transgender pride are great things, though! We should be encouraging each other to find common ground and not create division out of identity differences.
Everybody needs to just let people be people. Let me play fan service games. Let people have LGBT themes in games. Let people speak their minds.
Hopefully we'll get over this "us vs. them" mentality where playing a Senran Kagura game is somehow harmful or having a gay characters in the Last of Us Part II is considered bad.
Neither are bad and I like them both!
The Mad Draklor
Member
How about you actually address my arguments, like this one?
I see that your unwillingness to do so is rather strong indication to me that you have no more arguments left. But hey, "[You] win. [ I ] lose", right? LOL.
And yet another ad hominem. Going for that tactic the millionth time isn't going to work. Sorry.
I also find it ironic that you claim I'm trolling when what you were doing in the first blockquote is the perfect example of you doing that. Not practicing what you preaching, are you?
Do you think depiction of sexual content in games leads to in real life sexual harassment and assault? Go find the evidence that proves the positive. If there is no causation, then there are no consequences having games with sexual content in the market. Period.
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CatCouch
Member
WaterAstro
Yeah, people are against child porn but these games are not child porn. They are not porn. I don't think Sony is banning these games for porn reasons or else they would be banning a lot more. I just bought Punchline and Labyrinth of Refrain. Surely those games would be blocked for their artwork, too, then.
Dthomp
Member
Wait? These games are getting compared to child porn? Spoken like somebody who shockingly has not played these games. I find them to be a nice change of pace once or twice a year if I'm lucky enough to get one released in the US. The level of censorship we are seeing across the board is very disheartening and that should be what gamers are concerned about, not the politics behind everything else. I am a console gamer through and through, I like to sit in a chair/couch with a controller and veg out so I really don't want to have to buy this on PC, but buying this on my beloved PS4 feels like it sends the wrong message about censorship, but I want to support the company behind it...
kunonabi
Member
My issues with Nintendo are mostly their BS at the end of the Wii U's lifespan, the shoddiness of the Switch hardware, the laughable online service, the lack of actual new games and the poor quality of the ones they have released. Now if 2019 does go well I'll probably get a switch but I'm back to be mostly apathetic towards them like I was in the GC days.
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