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[shem935]

Is everyone that was shot stable?

Sounds like it which is good.

Lot of pointless posturing going on this thread without knowing a lot of details about what actually happened.

 

[therealist]

This. Except for the fact that I do advocate for violence against oppressors.

The issue when you advocate violence against oppressors is that you have to apply that to everyone. Half of America doesn't feels differently than you about who the actual oppressors are. You are then advocating for total destruction of American society. Might as well start another world war.

 

[Deepwater]

oh boy, a "both sides" post.

Obama let native people+allies defending native land get water hosed in freezing temperatures.

No matter who is in power, the American government will always have blood on its hands and the people w/ power to change that will be responsible regardless of their party affiliation. But this thread is not about "both sides"

 

[Dr.Acula]

there's only a difference because propagating that perception benefits those in power

practically speaking scalise and his GOP caucus are a bunch of murderers

people have literally said they will die if they take away Obamacare, but okay

The main difference is that you're not killing specific people, just people that fit a set of criteria. It's not personal, not in that direction at least. That doesn't really make it better though, just a different flavour of fucked up.

There is a definite qualitative difference between living in a country where politicians are regular targets of assassination and countries where they are not. Come on. Don't "both sides" the concept of a failed state with partisanship.

 

[Dyle]

if you're a person affected by the white nationalist policy effected by these congressmen, at what point are you obligated to feel sorrow for their misfortune? If this was 1938 and it was Reinhard Heydrich, am I supposed to feel sorry?

And no, that's not advocating for violence, but I'm not gonna get browbeaten into feeling sorry for people who actively seek to harm millions of people on the basis of bigotry and prejudice.

Couldn't agree more. It should also be remembered that Republicans have gone out of their way to normalize the use of violence as a part of political discourse. From the crosshairs imagery that's already been posted in this thread, Trump encouraging supporters to "beat the crap out of" protesters, and Gianforte's body slam. Party leaders have given only half-hearted apologies for these statements about these, seemingly increasing the validity of these methods as being valid, although not PC options for creating political change. Note the difference in how Democrats have talked about antifa protestors or people punching Richard Spencer; actions which have received universal condemnation from party leaders.

I genuinely hope that this attack will lead Scalise and other party leaders to reconsider how they approach violent language and take steps to normalize peaceful, civil discourse over violence, but unfortunately I have little hope that the party will take the moral high ground after this.

 

[RMI]

Getting shot has got to suck. I'm sure these guys are going to learn all the wrong lessons from this experience, unfortunately.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Extreme partisanship leads to this sort of thing. Of course the right is too busy blaming liberal inspired violence and the left is too busy insinuating that the GOP deserves it. Of course those who claim to be in the middle are shit on by both sides. Never mind people were harmed today, it's more important to make political points. So everybody just doubles down on their extremism and things continue to erode.

This both sides stuff is puzzling. There is a lengthy record of factual information showing one side working as hard as possible to make the lives of regular Americans worse. There are also many more cases of right-wing violence than there is left-wing violence.

Plenty of people in here have expressed their hope that those injured can recover. It's perfectly possible to express those thoughts and prayers while calling for actual relevant things to be done to address it. Only one side mainly stands in the way of that progress. It's possible to express general exasperation to the situation because people are tired of watching this extremely slow trainwreck.

Wanting common sense gun reform, kids not being slaughtered in school, people having modern and affordable healthcare access, good education, and in general tools to succeed are not extreme positions. They are not simply different sides of the same coin.

 

[BajiBoxer]

Wish them all well. Hope this is a wake up call for them how blatantly evil they are and how despicable it is to rip healthcare from other dying people.

LOL, come on. We know the conclusions they'll come away with are that Democrats are violent threats, and we need even less gun restrictions. In what world does shooting someone make all his buddies realizenthe errors of their ways? This is a white supremicist who is cool with our president being a hostile foreign intelligence asset (he's one of the guys from the Paul Ryan recording). He's certainly not going to have a change of heart because someone shot him in the hip.

 

[Angelus Errare]

if you're a person affected by the white nationalist policy effected by these congressmen, at what point are you obligated to feel sorrow for their misfortune? If this was 1938 and it was Reinhard Heydrich, am I supposed to feel sorry?

And no, that's not advocating for violence, but I'm not gonna get browbeaten into feeling sorry for people who actively seek to harm millions of people on the basis of bigotry and prejudice.

Pretty much. Doubly so for a man who calls himself "David Duke without the baggage" and spoke at a white supremacy group in 2002.

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

if you're a person affected by the white nationalist policy effected by these congressmen, at what point are you obligated to feel sorrow for their misfortune? If this was 1938 and it was Reinhard Heydrich, am I supposed to feel sorry?

And no, that's not advocating for violence, but I'm not gonna get browbeaten into feeling sorry for people who actively seek to harm millions of people on the basis of bigotry and prejudice.

Agreed.

 

[Aytumious]

who's cheering it? I see a bunch of highly logical people saying this is inevitable when you threaten peoples well being enough, eventually they threaten back.

Its very frustrating and im a white upper middle class male. I've got it made. Yet i call my representatives. I know for a fact people were flooding Cornyn's and Cruz's lines and fax machines over Devos appointment, they both still voted in the affirmative for her.
Imagine being the person angrily yelling at your representative at town halls and all they do is give you platitudes, then turn around and vote against your wishes. Now imagine you barely have a job or no job at all and these assholes keep voting to make your life worse. Understanding this is not condoning it.

What is "highly logical" about crafting a politically sympathetic narrative for the shooter when you have no idea who it was or what the motive might have been?

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

This is the first thing that comes to mind for you in this situation?

It's a perfectly legitimate thing to come to mind, yes. We're not talking about how a level-headed, compassionate human beings are going to engineer the narrative in the coming days, we're talking about the Trump administration.

if you're a person affected by the white nationalist policy effected by these congressmen, at what point are you obligated to feel sorrow for their misfortune? If this was 1938 and it was Reinhard Heydrich, am I supposed to feel sorry?

And no, that's not advocating for violence, but I'm not gonna get browbeaten into feeling sorry for people who actively seek to harm millions of people on the basis of bigotry and prejudice.

I just think it's possible to feel regret in the case of an action that one feels is wrong happening to a person one feels karmically deserves little sympathy. Obligation has nothing to do with it. Personally I'm very hesitant to offer much other than sympathy right now anyway without knowing all of the details.

On the other hand, if you actively agree not just with the motivation but with the action, by all means condone it. Personally, if you want to split the difference and pool some money to send Scalise a get well card smeared with rancid shit, I'm game.

 

[JoeBoy101]

I agree with this.

Pretty much.

You DO realize more than Congresspersons were hit, right? Or are we going to go with, "Meh, they should have known better than to be near the GOP members?"

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Thoughts and prayers
Thoughts and prayers
Thoughts and prayers
Thoughts and prayers
Thoughts and prayers


Does that even mean anything anymore? It's like saying bless you now.

"Shooting spree in Dallas"
"Thoughts and prayers"

Thought and prayers is all the GOP had to offer the victims of the terrorist attack at Pulse almost exactly a year ago.

 

[jfkgoblue]

To those saying that the shooter was either a terrible marksman or inexperienced... it is a lot easier to hit a stationary target at a range, than to hit moving targets while under fire yourself.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

What is "highly logical" about crafting a politically sympathetic narrative for the shooter when you have no idea who it was or what the motive might have been?

I don't think anyone is expressing sympathy for the shooter. They're speaking on the overall situation and the notion of a GOP politician being targeted.

Yes, it is quite logical to look at policies championed and recognizing that there is massive frustration out there. Add in easy access to guns, and you get situations like this. This can also be applied to school shootings.

Easy gun access and frustration/hate/whatever on part of the shooter. Does saying those two combinations exist, which helps to facilitate a shooting, mean you're expressing sympathy for the shooter?

 

[HolySheep]

Not suprised at all...

remains to be seen if its done for political reasons obviously, but if it was... Idiotic move, this will make the republicans stronger.

 

[aeolist]

What is "highly logical" about crafting a politically sympathetic narrative for the shooter when you have no idea who it was or what the motive might have been?

well the shooter was a pudgy older white guy apparently, so odds are decent that he has a maga hat somewhere in his house. we'll have to wait and see but i very much doubt the narrative will end up being politically sympathetic.

 

[BobbyRobby]

they brought this upon themselves

Yo I don't agree

 

[captive]

What is "highly logical" about crafting a politically sympathetic narrative for the shooter when you have no idea who it was or what the motive might have been?

obviously we're speculating, but given the current political climate its not a stretch to imagine someone pissed off about losing their health care loses and decides this i the best course of action.

the highly logical part, i was referring to was about people not really feeling sorry for people that got shot.

 

[cameron]

Shooter identified by police:

The shooter at the GOP congressional baseball practice this morning is James T. Hodgkinson of Belleville, Ill., according to law enforcement officials. Hodgkinson, 66, owns a home inspection business. His home inspection license expired in November 2016 and was not renewed, state records show.

Hodgkinson was charged in April 2006 with battery and aiding damage to a motor vehicle, according to online records in St. Clair County, Illinois. The charges were dismissed, records show.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...as-james-t-hodgkinson/?utm_term=.ea46b5a914be

 

[bangbang i'm a timpani]

wapo has shooter identity story out
https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...p-table-main_axliveblog-835a:prime-time/promo

 

[Drkirby]

So the gunman was captured? I would want to hear his motivation, though I suspect its dissatisfaction of the state of our government.

 

[guggnichso]

This is a very disturbing thread, and not only because of the history revisionist undertones set by comparing US politicians to Heydrich and the likes. Hell, people. I get that you don't feel sympathy for asshole politicians, but please don't maginalize the fucking holocaust and the NAZI death machine for this.

Read a goodamn history book. Your ruling class at the moment might be the worst in any western country baring Poland, but fuck it. Look at the simple anihilation of jewish people, of gay people, of sinti and roma, of political opponents, of simple folks that made a simple joke about the Führer. You can go out and joke about Trump, hell, you can VOTE his cronies out soon, you are NOT rounded up and put into camps and you are not being experimented on and burned alive and gassed and dismembered at the leisure of Trump.

For heavens sake, just go vote and protest and strengthen your local communities and get involved. Don't marginalize the horrific death of millions in your internet rage.

 

[Croatoan]

well the shooter was a pudgy older white guy apparently, so odds are decent that he has a maga hat somewhere in his house. we'll have to wait and see but i very much doubt the narrative will end up being politically sympathetic.

huh? Why would a Trump supporter shoot a republican baseball practice, and specifically a congressman who is close with Trump.

I mean it is possible, but ODDS are that the shooter is a democrat with a screw loose.

 

[CelticKnight]

well the shooter was a pudgy older white guy apparently, so odds are decent that he has a maga hat somewhere in his house. we'll have to wait and see but i very much doubt the narrative will end up being politically sympathetic.

Have you seen his Facebook page? If it's the correct guy, he's a Bernie Sanders fan.

 

[RDreamer]

You can find his facebook. He's a Bernie supporter.

 

[TyrantII]

The issue when you advocate violence against oppressors is that you have to apply that to everyone. Half of America doesn't feels differently than you about who the actual oppressors are. You are then advocating for total destruction of American society. Might as well start another world war.

You're numbers are off.

It's like something like 24% of voters, and even less of the population as a whole. 48% don't or didn't vote. There's more that can't.

People on both sides, so sure of their fucking purity, don't realize this. Events like this also can swing that 48% into action whichever what way. That's why violence is so dangerous and unpredictable, because the population is much less partisan than the voters.

 

[Kite]

wapo has shooter identity story out
https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...p-table-main_axliveblog-835a:prime-time/promo

Uh oh, if I'm looking at the right person's facebook page.. big ol bernie sanders pictures and anti trump posts.

 

[aspiegamer]

Hmm... that sounds like a pretty generic "mad at government" type of person who doesn't necessarily have any partisan motive. Sad as it is to say, it might be best to hope for such a relatively mundane motive.

You can find his facebook. He's a Bernie supporter.

Oh godfuckingdammit. I pray this is coincidental.

 

[Lev]

https://www.facebook.com/jthodgkinson

If that's really his Facebook page then uh oh, in before the spin. That Bernie Sanders background is going to trigger a lot of idiots.

 

[Interfectum]

if you're a person affected by the white nationalist policy effected by these congressmen, at what point are you obligated to feel sorrow for their misfortune? If this was 1938 and it was Reinhard Heydrich, am I supposed to feel sorry?

And no, that's not advocating for violence, but I'm not gonna get browbeaten into feeling sorry for people who actively seek to harm millions of people on the basis of bigotry and prejudice.

Bingo.

 

[newdayrocks]

Have you seen his Facebook page? If it's the correct guy, he's a Bernie Sanders fan.

A Bernie Bro. Terrific.

 

[Deepwater]

This is a very disturbing thread, and not only because of the history revisionist undertones set by comparing US politicians to Heydrich and the likes. Hell, people. I get that you don't feel sympathy for asshole politicians, but please don't maginalize the fucking holocaust and the NAZI death machine for this.

Read a goodamn history book. Your ruling class at the moment might be the worst in any western country baring Poland, but fuck it. Look at the simple anihilation of jewish people, of gay people, of sinti and roma, of political opponents, of simple folks that made a simple joke about the Führer. You can go out and joke about Trump, hell, you can VOTE his cronies out soon, you are NOT rounded up and put into camps and you are not being experimented on and burned alive and gassed and dismembered at the leisure of Trump.

For heavens sake, just go vote and protest and strengthen your local communities and get involved. Don't marginalize the horrific death of millions in your internet rage.

Are you white, cisgendered, straight, and or a male? Cause I can certainly see how that privilege might lead to a post like this.

 

[Kurdel]

I'm honestly surprised this doesn't happen more often. This and Gabby Giffords shooting are both horrible and disgusting events.

For heavens sake, just go vote and protest and strengthen your local communities and get involved. Don't marginalize the horrific death of millions in your internet rage.

Yeah, some really disturbing posts in this thread.

Are you white, cisgendered, straight, and or a male? Cause I can certainly see how that privilege might lead to a post like this.

Real classy response

 

[aeolist]

Have you seen his Facebook page? If it's the correct guy, he's a Bernie Sanders fan.

well that's just great

 

[Dr.Acula]

Not suprised at all...

remains to be seen if its done for political reasons obviously, but if it was... Idiotic move, this will make the republicans stronger.

I don't want to "both sides" this thing, but in this case, I feel like events like these (should it snowball to copycat attacks) make not only the Republicans, but the State stronger. When Bush rammed through authoritarian legistlation in the wake of 9/11, that expanded powers of surveillance and arrest, they proved too useful and seductive a tool for Obama to undo.

If we're talking of strengthening the Republicans in terms of vote-share, elections come down to basically which way the economy bounced in the six-months before, so I don't see this event having effects in those terms.

 

[Zyae]

found the guys facebook in about 2 seconds. Big bernie supporter and lots of anti trump posts.

 

[Red]

if you're a person affected by the white nationalist policy effected by these congressmen, at what point are you obligated to feel sorrow for their misfortune? If this was 1938 and it was Reinhard Heydrich, am I supposed to feel sorry?

And no, that's not advocating for violence, but I'm not gonna get browbeaten into feeling sorry for people who actively seek to harm millions of people on the basis of bigotry and prejudice.

Yes. It's difficult to feel sympathy.

 

[BoogieWoogie]

You can find his facebook. He's a Bernie supporter.

Yep, just saw this. Yikes.

 

[BobbyRobby]

This is a very disturbing thread, and not only because of the history revisionist undertones set by comparing US politicians to Heydrich and the likes. Hell, people. I get that you don't feel sympathy for asshole politicians, but please don't maginalize the fucking holocaust and the NAZI death machine for this.

Read a goodamn history book. Your ruling class at the moment might be the worst in any western country baring Poland, but fuck it. Look at the simple anihilation of jewish people, of gay people, of sinti and roma, of political opponents, of simple folks that made a simple joke about the Führer. You can go out and joke about Trump, hell, you can VOTE his cronies out soon, you are NOT rounded up and put into camps and you are not being experimented on and burned alive and gassed and dismembered at the leisure of Trump.

For heavens sake, just go vote and protest and strengthen your local communities and get involved. Don't marginalize the horrific death of millions in your internet rage.

Yea it's pretty sad that people are willing to throw out the baby with the bathwater before even voting in midterm elections.

Really short sighted to start justifying political assassinations.

 

[Stinkles]

96 people will be killed by guns today in America. Kids. Cops. Criminals. Grandmas. Bystanders. Passengers.


They will not receive this coverage, but they should.

 

[jfkgoblue]

Are you white, cisgendered, straight, and or a male? Cause I can certainly see how that privilege might lead to a post like this.

So you are saying that being discriminated against is comparable to being rounded up and put into concentration camps to be killed? Really?

Yes we have progress to do in those areas, and discrimination is terrible, but come the fuck on.

 

[Kite]

All the momentum from the hearings and bad news for Trump.. most likely gone cus of this idiot. Thanks asshole bernie bro.

 

[Deepwater]

I'm honestly surprised this doesn't happen more often. This and Gabby Giffords shooting are both horrible and disgusting events.



Yeah, some really disturbing posts in this thread.



Real classy response

It's easy to marginalize violence by American politicians if you aren't the one under threat of violence. But...*shrugs*

 

[TyrantII]

For heavens sake, just go vote and protest and strengthen your local communities and get involved. Don't marginalize the horrific death of millions in your internet rage.

B I N G O

Hard work is hard, there are no shortcuts.

 

[QuantumBro]

Have you seen his Facebook page? If it's the correct guy, he's a Bernie Sanders fan.

Couldn't he be one of Bernie's Russian foreign agents?

 

[shandy706]

96 people will be killed by guns today in America. Kids. Cops. Criminals. Grandmas. Bystanders. Passengers.


They will not receive this coverage, but they should.

Agreed

CBS reporting more than 50 shots fired.

Is that still accurate, that's a lot of shots fired to only wound a couple people.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

This is a very disturbing thread, and not only because of the history revisionist undertones set by comparing US politicians to Heydrich and the likes. Hell, people. I get that you don't feel sympathy for asshole politicians, but please don't maginalize the fucking holocaust and the NAZI death machine for this.

Read a goodamn history book. Your ruling class at the moment might be the worst in any western country baring Poland, but fuck it. Look at the simple anihilation of jewish people, of gay people, of sinti and roma, of political opponents, of simple folks that made a simple joke about the Führer. You can go out and joke about Trump, hell, you can VOTE his cronies out soon, you are NOT rounded up and put into camps and you are not being experimented on and burned alive and gassed and dismembered at the leisure of Trump.

For heavens sake, just go vote and protest and strengthen your local communities and get involved. Don't marginalize the horrific death of millions in your internet rage.

Great post.

 

[andymcc]

Nah. I think this is a conversation about mental health, we need to do more

Same guys for easily accessed guns are the same guys wanting to remove 20mil plus from insurance.