• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Sonic the Hedgehog Community |OT2 Battle|

Status
Not open for further replies.

Shouta

Member

DOT DOT DOT

I hate to continue this conversation, but I honestly don't see why this is an issue. It seems like you're asking us to take all the good discussions into a place where the games we typically discuss (i.e. platformers and JRPGs) here are already largely ignored or looked down upon (usually for being "outdated" or "too gamey"), where they will be passed over in favor the weekly "let's freak out because this game isn't HD enough", "lol Wii U sales" or "grrr game journalism" threads, or attacked because a poster "wrote an essay" or is "bringing negativity in the thread", all because said discussions don't pertain to Sonic.

I just can't see this sort of sudden moratorium doing anyone any favors. Just like how the "no thread whining" rule didn't lessen the amount of bad threads, or how the "cunt" ban didn't make the forum any more welcoming (I'd argue that one made the place worse tbh).

Said I would stop but since you didn't PM me, I'll have to respond in here. =(

Two things. One is, we're asking for good conversation to be done in the appropriate place so it can foster more good discussion. It doesn't necessarily have to be an established thread that's shitty. Creating your own is totally fine too (and you can take control of it some).

The second thing has to do with the overall forum and what it is and where it should go. It basically is a matter of wanting to promote the forum as a single entity and to limit the amount of segmentation that happens. That's what makes this forum, this forum. It's a longer discussion and I can continue it in PM or so if you're interested.

I... have to agree somewhat. The intent is not to stifle discussion at all, but the thing is, putting moratorium on certain aspects of discussion actually does stifle discussion and doesn't let the thread naturally flow as it has been doing.

What are we putting a moratorium on? This is directed to others as well. I'm honestly interested.

I'm trying to keep level-headed about this, but considering I'm a little personally (and somewhat emotionally) invested in this, I am not the best person to moderate this discussion at all because I am going to take a side due to my personal bias. I've said time and time again that this thread and this community was important to me because it's the very first community that I felt was welcoming back when I joined the site and was too shy to participate in any other thread. It's not a community that I'll easily abandon.

If you feel strongly about this thread, then take a step back, take a deep breath to clear your mind, and think about what I've said so far.

I've said that discussing other in-depth games is fine if it's within the context of the thread topic. I've said that going on little tangents is fine too as it's to be expected. What other mods have expressed and I've said is that we want self-contained discussion of a game to go elsewhere because is in no way related to the thread topic.

Where is this stifling to the discussion in this thread or the banter that has been established here? Is there anything stopping you from interacting with each other like you have been? What actually changes about the thread if folks were to focus their discussion more?

I don't think anything I've said is unreasonable. You can still go about this thread like you have before. We just don't want the thread to turn into another thread for 5 pages that's devoid of talk about the topic.

AWW YEAH

tumblr_inline_mwdchk47VJ1rqxvm0.jpg

What did you do to poor Sonic!? D=

Edit: Dammit. i meant to sneak this in on the last page. But for real now. DIRECT DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS TO PM, PLEASE.
 
Shouta said:
We just don't want the thread to turn into another thread for 5 pages that's devoid of talk about the topic.

Oh, well shit, you should have said. I don't think this ever happens. At least not since Sciz started his music thing, anyway.

I'm assuming that's 5 pages as in 500 posts, like a normal person
 

Quackula

Member
Ironically this meta discussion about the nature of the thread itself is probably the longest off topic tangent I've seen go on in here in quite a while.

The page is over. Now what?
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
I am not willing to discuss anything pertinent right now as I just need to take a breather and clear my head, and actually focus on stuff that's far more important than this site in my personal life.

I'll take a break for a few days or maybe even more than that. JC and Coldman are in charge of the thread to direct discussion.

Perhaps I am a little too emotionally invested in this right now, but either way, whatever impression you all have of this thread as to whether it's constantly and always off-topic is incorrect.
 
Basic rule about drawings was that there can't be any "creepy" fanart, right? Because after seeing the past few covers of the Sonic comics and what went on here a few pages ago, I've started to get back in the mood of drawing Sonic stuff again, but I'm not sure if I should post any stuff here even though it is Sonic related and will help us stay on topic.
 
I am not willing to discuss anything pertinent right now as I just need to take a breather and clear my head, and actually focus on stuff that's far more important than this site in my personal life.

I'll take a break for a few days or maybe even more than that. JC and Coldman are in charge of the thread to direct discussion.

Perhaps I am a little too emotionally invested in this right now, but either way, whatever impression you all have of this thread as to whether it's constantly and always off-topic is incorrect.

oh dear god what have you done
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
Basic rule about drawings was that there can't be any "creepy" fanart, right? Because after seeing the past few covers of the Sonic comics and what went on here a few pages ago, I've started to get back in the mood of drawing Sonic stuff again, but I'm not sure if I should post any stuff here even though it is Sonic related and will help us stay on topic.
Correct. Zero creepy fanart. None. Don't do it.

oh dear god what have you done
I trust you two the most.
 
Basic rule about drawings was that there can't be any "creepy" fanart, right? Because after seeing the past few covers of the Sonic comics and what went on here a few pages ago, I've started to get back in the mood of drawing Sonic stuff again, but I'm not sure if I should post any stuff here even though it is Sonic related and will help us stay on topic.

If you have to think about it, you probably shouldn't.
 

Shouta

Member
Oh, well shit, you should have said. I don't think this ever happens. At least not since Sciz started his music thing, anyway.

I'm assuming that's 5 pages as in 500 posts, like a normal person

I'm a 50 posts per page peasant BibleThump

The music thing is nice. The last few pages before the other mods hopped in could've used a bit more connection to the topic on quick glance. It would've been nice to see a recommendation and how if you like these elements in Sonic, you might like it in this, like level design.
 

GAMERG0D

Member
I just played the Sonic: Lost World demo. Why are the English voice actors so bad now? Sonic and Amy sounded weird. The game was fun though.
 

Shouta

Member
For reference, I don't think the thread as a whole is very off-topic. I do think the heftier actual discussion could be a bit more Sonic-focused and a few minor unrelated things seem to be dragged out a little longer, based off skimming the last 750-1000 posts.

No one can keep Beef in order. It's Professor Beef.
 

Sciz

Member
Edit: Dammit. i meant to sneak this in on the last page. But for real now. DIRECT DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS TO PM, PLEASE.

Just to bust your balls a bit, this is a nice example of how it is not the easiest thing to transfer a conversation to another location. ;p

The long-form impressions probably should be somewhere else with a pointer from here to there, yes.

Basic rule about drawings was that there can't be any "creepy" fanart, right? Because after seeing the past few covers of the Sonic comics and what went on here a few pages ago, I've started to get back in the mood of drawing Sonic stuff again, but I'm not sure if I should post any stuff here even though it is Sonic related and will help us stay on topic.

There's never been anything implicitly wrong with fanart, it's just that most of us don't travel in those circles to pick it out, and GAF in general has a bad tendency to snowball it into squicky territory. I can't imagine anyone in here is actively against seeing some periodically under reasonable constraints.
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
Welp, its been real SonicGAF. Coldman, you're the man of the house now. I know you'll keep Beef in order.
Don't you leave, too. You are another poster I appreciate having in here very much. I'll more than likely return, but not in a hurry.

I get AniHawk's reasons, but I don't necessarily get yours.

The long-form impressions probably should be somewhere else with a pointer from here to there, yes.
Which is typical of this thread anyway.
 

Shouta

Member
Just to bust your balls a bit, this is a nice example of how it is not the easiest thing to transfer a conversation to another location. ;p

The long-form impressions probably should be somewhere else with a pointer from here to there, yes.

Mmm busted balls...owait. Not that kind...

Yeah, I know how hard it is to transfer conversations. I haven't been a mod on here for as long as I for no reason. Oh the stories.
 
Well to be honest, discussing Sonic and whatever else was being discussed in the thread (be it related to the series or not) was 99% percent of the reason I still even bother logging into GAF these days. It might sound childish, but I really don't have much fun on GAF outside of here these days.

So I guess I'll see y'all in IRC or whatever.
 

Shouta

Member
Well to be honest, discussing Sonic and whatever else was being discussed in the thread (be it related to the series or not) was 99% percent of the reason I still even bother logging into GAF these days. It might sound childish, but I really don't have much fun on GAF outside of here these days.

So I guess I'll see y'all in IRC or whatever.

Then keep having fun. Just don't make it into another thread by virtue of talking about other stuff is all.

Is anybody actually reading what I'm saying? =(
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
Well. I have nothing more to say outside of this.

It might sound pathetically childish that I'm being slightly bitter about this, but I can't help that at the moment. These were posters I genuinely liked and respected. And they don't feel like it's necessary to post not only in this thread, but this entire forum, any longer due to the lack of transparency as to whether or not this is a suggestion or something that should be strictly adhered to.

And it's really funny that this thread and the Persona thread got a talking to, and yet the Halo OT is on its 18th thread, and it's always filled with stuff like this. The double standards astounds me and honestly makes me question whether or not I should bother posting on this forum at all given that there isn't this clear foundation as to what should be happening in community threads.

They've gone on since 2011 without any sort of issue arising, so I don't necessarily see the harm here. Crossposting happens incredibly often in this thread so the conversation bits are still being forwarded to the gaming forum for discussion there.
 

Shouta

Member
Frankly it's unclear whether this whole thing is more of a strong suggestion or a straight-up mandate.

I don't know about other mods but from me, a strong suggestion. Nothing wrong is happening here and everyone looks like they've been good posters in here. So I don't really see a need to require anything happen.

For reference, we've had issues with Halo as well and many others.This is not isolated and we've had to deal with many others for a huge variety of issues. I don't think it's fair to characterize that we're perpetuating some double standard because frankly speaking, I don't think you have any idea how many issues are happening all over this forum.

That will be it from me. I'll be unsubscribing from the thread. You guys decide what you want to do.
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
So I don't really see a need to require anything happen.
Then why did a fraction of the moderation staff feel the need to come down on this thread despite the fact that we have been discussing various points in the gaming side to begin with?

If it was an issue with me or AniHawk posting in here and not bringing our points to gaming side often enough, that's fine. That could have been addressed in private to both of us.
 

BHZ Mayor

Member
Then why did a fraction of the moderation staff feel the need to come down on this thread despite the fact that we have been discussing various points in the gaming side to begin with?

If it was an issue with me or AniHawk posting in here and not bringing our points to gaming side often enough, that's fine. That could have been addressed in private to both of us.

This is what I really don't understand. What we post in here doesn't make Gaming Side take a shit, for a lack of a better analogy.

I'm kind of bitter about this as well, because I mostly only post here and one other thread mainly because because of how toxic the main sides can be, and the fact that I quite frankly don't care about a lot of the stuff that populates their respective front pages.

I also feel like the approach is backwards. If the problem is that people don't want to post on Gaming for whatever reason, then why come down on us for not taking our discussion there? Why not crack down on Gaming side, encourage better discussion there, and then maybe we'll want to post there, instead of just saying "hey go post in the minefield."
 

Sciz

Member
Then why did a fraction of the moderation staff feel the need to come down on this thread despite the fact that we have been discussing various points in the gaming side to begin with?

If it was an issue with me or AniHawk posting in here and not bringing our points to gaming side often enough, that's fine. That could have been addressed in private to both of us.

Even mods need to vent sometimes, I suppose.

The impression I get is that it's a tacit admission that SonicGAF is the best place on GAF.

I also feel like the approach is backwards. If the problem is that people don't want to post on Gaming for whatever reason, then why come down on us for not taking our discussion there? Why not crack down on Gaming side, encourage better discussion there, and then maybe we'll want to post there, instead of just saying "hey go post in the minefield."

They'd certainly like to improve Gaming. That's what Stump's whole point was.

edit: That said, following on from the rest of Stump's point about how they don't have enough people, the answer is probably to improve the ability of the users to direct mod attention to shitposting rather than pleading with them to rely on a staggeringly inefficient mechanism like PMing three mods about a single issue at once. Take a hint from GameFAQs and implement a report function and a moderation queue. Lock the report function down to a selection of preferred users to keep it from being flooded by morons.
 
Well to be honest, discussing Sonic and whatever else was being discussed in the thread (be it related to the series or not) was 99% percent of the reason I still even bother logging into GAF these days. It might sound childish, but I really don't have much fun on GAF outside of here these days.

So I guess I'll see y'all in IRC or whatever.

What exactly is IRC?
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
It's been expressed to me that maybe people in the thread felt like we "came down" too hard yesterday. I don't think that was any of our intentions. I hope that some of you are able to read it as more a "gentle nudge" to try to get some of y'all participating in the main forum as well as here and to keep the thread a little more on topic, rather than a demand-at-gunpoint.

If anything we said seemed like an overreach, then know that the only main objective was to convey the following: "If you have a good idea for a good post and it's relevant to people on the forum outside here, we'd love for you to share. If you can't because the forum outside here frustrates you, we'd like to try to help with that. The primary focus of this thread should ideally be on Sonic games and other Sonic stuff"

And it's really funny that this thread and the Persona thread got a talking to, and yet the Halo OT is on its 18th thread, and it's always filled with stuff like this. The double standards astounds me and honestly makes me question whether or not I should bother posting on this forum at all given that there isn't this clear foundation as to what should be happening in community threads.

The Halo thread has been a consistent thorn for a long time. It was closed down for a few months because of the issues we've had with it. One of the reasons we brought on GhaleonEB on the moderation staff is because we thought that his tenure there would contribute to help keeping them a little more on topic. I honestly couldn't evaluate whether or not we've succeeded because at least in terms of my own time I don't have a lot to be able to follow up on it. The nominal purpose of the Halo OT at this point should be discussing and planning Halo news, matches, games, etc. I am sure there's a lot of chat room stuff going on in there too. :/

Please know that if you see a thread that seems like it's not being dealt with, it's either a case that we are trying to deal with it, or that it's actually sneaking by under the radar. There's never a deliberate double standard and I promise you it's not a matter of picking on threads. I've never had a conversation with a mod where they've tried to "protect" their own threads, or exempt threads from rules.

We have some coverage gaps and so it may be fair to say that some community threads get more attention on the basis that some of us actually happen to go in them. For example, I know our sports moderation is a little inconsistent because we don't have mods that watch every sport. There's no easy answer to that. Unfortunately even if every mod was active 12 hours a day we still wouldn't be able to deal with everything.

To try to provide some clarity: The aim for community threads was to allow people to discuss ongoing series and games without having the same long-running threads taking up half the slots in the main forum. It was about balance. Obviously there would never be a rule like "no deviating from the strict topic or else!!!!", but more that we do want to encourage that at least the main purpose of the thread is to discuss the topic.

That's why Aeana posted what she did--to try to help encourage you guys to get involved in helping make this thread a little closer to what the intent was, because we don't have the resources. I think in her case it was also a little bit being bummed that great posters were bummed out and not wanting to engage with the rest of the forum. We wish we could do a little more than we can.


It would be a real bummer if the posters in the thread interpreted a few of us posting in here in a way that we thought and hoped would be positive and encouraging as a negative or strict ultimatum.

edit: That said, following on from the rest of Stump's point about how they don't have enough people, the answer is probably to improve the ability of the users to direct mod attention to shitposting rather than pleading with them to rely on a staggeringly inefficient mechanism like PMing three mods about a single issue at once. Take a hint from GameFAQs and implement a report function and a moderation queue. Lock the report function down to a selection of preferred users to keep it from being flooded by morons.

We are super extremely aware of this. I am not sure what can be done from a software POV.


Sorry for keeping this thread of discussion going, I know it's counterproductive to the point of asking for more focus on Sonic discussion. Just wanted to let people know I'm reading what people are posting, taking people's opinions into consideration, etc. Feel free to PM me or reply in here, but Sonic discussion is good too!
 

BlackJace

Member
Yeah, I'm not particularly bitter about this whole thing. I get the yearning for Gaming's level of discourse to improve, but it's a not a clear cut issue that can get rectified with a few shifting of chairs. Like Sciz said, I don't think we're being highlighted because of something we did WRONG, but because we might be doing something RIGHT.

I implore you not to leave Schala.
 
I haven't really posted in here for a couple days (I guess), because I didn't really have much to contribute, although a thought just came to me, which may-or-may-not be relevant to the matter at hand. Basically, I just made a post in the A Link Between Worlds OT, simply saying that I purchased the game, and a small impression to go with it. Now, if I made another post more or less stating the same thing in this thread, the chances of someone actually responding to that, and actually generating some form of discussion, is exponentially greater than the post made in the "official topic".

My main point is, GAF is far too active and posts get buried far too quickly and easily. It seems that if you really want to be "recognized" on NeoGAF, outside of the Communities, you either need to make "dat first post" or be as controversial as possible, for the most part. I will end up doing neither of these things, most likely, because that isn't my nature.

For the record, I'm not bitter about the mods coming in and giving their two-cents on the matter, but I certainly hope the information gained from this discussion can be utilized by them to try and make GAF a more sociable place.

I trust you two the most.

we're doomed
 
Yeah, I'm not particularly bitter about this whole thing. I get the yearning for Gaming's level of discourse to improve, but it's a not a clear cut issue that can get rectified with a few shifting of chairs. Like Sciz said, I don't think we're being highlighted because of something we did WRONG, but because we might be doing something RIGHT.

I implore you not to leave Schala.

That's not the way it's coming across. Not at all, really.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
My main point is, GAF is far too active and posts get buried far too quickly and easily. It seems that if you really want to be "recognized" on NeoGAF, outside of the Communities, you either need to make "dat first post" or be as controversial as possible, for the most part. I will end up doing neither of these things, most likely, because that isn't my nature.

I'm not sure the latter is the key to positive recognition given that I see how many people get banned and for what reason ;), but I agree that it really really sucks to post what you think and then have 15 people reply with one-liners within 5 minutes and then your post is sunk. It's almost an intractable problem to size, which is why in my earlier posts in here I expressed sympathy and understanding for why people might choose to post in here rather than elsewhere. I guess the only thing I can say otherwise is to suggest that signal-to-noise involves both signal and noise, and while we try our best to minimize the noise against demographic odds, we also hope people in here would try to help improve the signal.
 
So I've got to ask:

Say we don't respond to the gentle nudge and keep doing what we're doing. Would that "gentle nudge" be upgraded to a "strong suggestion", which would then be upgraded to a mandate?
 

Sciz

Member
If anything we said seemed like an overreach, then know that the only main objective was to convey the following: "If you have a good idea for a good post and it's relevant to people on the forum outside here, we'd love for you to share. If you can't because the forum outside here frustrates you, we'd like to try to help with that. The primary focus of this thread should ideally be on Sonic games and other Sonic stuff"

That's clearer, thank you.

We are super extremely aware of this. I am not sure what can be done from a software POV.

I'm not personally familiar with vBulletin's backend (or what controls you already have available), but I can't imagine it doesn't have similar mechanisms available. A board of this size demands better tools.
 

Kokonoe

Banned
I've actually stopped caring so much about making as elaborate posts as I use to as they simply go unnoticed in gaming side and don't bring much discussion. Sometimes even bringing up a discussion is just asking to argue and I know the mods exist for the troublemakers, but people can just be flat out rude over video games and over the years it just starts feeling like it's worthless to say much to random people. I don't speak for everyone I know, but I find it to be stressful at times.
 
I guess the only thing I can say otherwise is to suggest that signal-to-noise involves both signal and noise, and while we try our best to minimize the noise against demographic odds, we also hope people in here would try to help improve the signal.

I think what you guys are failing to realize is that this request is akin to going "We need to paint this wall red to make things better, so I have a razor blade, you guys have wrists, who's ready to paint?"

Maybe it's not quite that dramatic, but it really kind of sucks over there and has been heading in that direction for years. It seemed to actually get worse when GAF got mainstream attention and suddenly it felt like anything goes. Which, if that's the board GAF wants to be, that's totally fine. You guys should run the board the way you want to, but speaking personally, it's become tougher to post there because I feel myself slipping down in to the muck with other people, as well.

For whatever it's worth, a few people have said (both on GAF and to me personally) that they're taking breaks from community threads and GAF as a whole because their definition of fun is no longer being satisfied by what this board offers. I think that sucks. I think it's telling that people would just rather post in 140 characters than they would to expose themselves to certain threads. I also feel that, if anything could be done about it (and I doubt it can), it certainly is not on this end.
 

Anth0ny

Member
I know I'm late on this but

Emerald Hill Zone >>>>>>>>>>>> Green Hill Zone. That music is TIGHT. Too bad it's always been ignored by the later games...
 
So I couldn't beat Schala at Speed Skating because the waggle is terrible so I decided to boot up Winter 2010, and surprisingly, the event I left off on there was also speed skating

But this time

Z9TGoOp.jpg


First try. Of course, this time, I was only racing against Waluigi, so maybe that explains everything.

IalW6uC.jpg


Or maybe the waggle on the Wii U version is actively worse because the event is identical otherwise
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom