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Sony is requiring devs to offer timed game trials for PS+ Premium subscribers for games that cost more than $34 (Update: Wholesale Pricing)

You know what i mean with demo and actually are timed trials even worse for some devs. Think of games with bloated boring tutorials or games where you don't see the real game(play) within the first two hours like Death Stranding or Yakuza 7. I can't imagine how many people wouldn't buy games like this after the trial.

A smart developer would just pick a part of their game further in to use as the trail portion. The dev can just configure a state for the player in terms of character stats etc., and make sure they avoid a section that would include a massive story spoiler.

Again it's similar to what a lot of demos would do, they don't always start you off in the beginning of the game.
 
You know what i mean with demo and actually are timed trials even worse for some devs. Think of games with bloated boring tutorials or games where you don't see the real game(play) within the first two hours like Death Stranding or Yakuza 7. I can't imagine how many people wouldn't buy games like this after the trial.

Set it up so you start after the slow tutorials then. They don't even need to worry about trials affecting sales for three months.
 
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Aenima

Member
This is great and should be standard by now. Hopefully in the future, more platform holders will be doing this and stuff like this dont need to be tied to a subscription service.

I never understood why devs stoped offering demos, but im glad to see Sony doing something to bring them back.
 
So the question becomes as a developer, do I just give them 2 hours of the actual game which might not be exciting enough to keep them, or do I or a fair amount of extra work to give a more exciting custom 2 hour demo?

There is a reason movie trailers aren’t just the first 30 seconds of the movie
 

arvfab

Banned
Waiting for the first dev to refuse to do this.

Shouldn't we first wait till it's not a rumor anymore?

As likely as I think it is, there is no confirmation for Sony enforcing it, or did I miss it?

And again, (1 hour) trials were already part of PS+ since the beginning, but nobody cared (neither users, nor Sony/devs).
 

Leyasu

Banned
This is good. I like it.

Also,

Subscribers pay to get to trial games, and devs get some money at least if their game is an absolute stinker and nobody buys it
 

jaysius

Banned
  • Time-limited game trials will also be offered in this tier, so customers can try select games before they buy.
SONY ITSELF

I think we need to consider the source on this here. SELECT GAMES, by Sony's own clarification of the "perk" does not mean ALL GAMES.

We all got caught up in the quoted source to consider what SONY THEMSELVES HAVE STATED.

It's an exciting(to some) to think about getting a 2 hour trial of ANY NEW GAME, but in reality this will probably be as useless as their OLD trail system on Plus of the past, where very few devs bothered with the game trials.
 
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Surely this could effect games sales massively?
Yes, it could have that same effect that Phil said about Gamepass where people bought even more games that were on Gamepass, but in this case the effect should be even bigger since you need to buy the game to play it. Massive win for devs.

Sony requires these demos to be at least 2 hours long, doesn't limit them to two hours. If devs want to make it longer, they can make the demo/time trial longer.
But I just said that.
 
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Wohc

Banned
You can still buy it without trying if you want. Maybe if a dev feels like 2 hours isn't enough he can offer a bigger trial.
A smart developer would just pick a part of their game further in to use as the trail portion. The dev can just configure a state for the player in terms of character stats etc., and make sure they avoid a section that would include a massive story spoiler.

Again it's similar to what a lot of demos would do, they don't always start you off in the beginning of the game.
Set it up so you start after the slow tutorials then. They don't even need to worry about trials affecting sales for three months.
The basic idea from Sony is excellent and i really would like to have short demos for all games on all platforms. But this solution just doesn't sound very beneficial for the devs and putting it behind a paywall doesn't seem to be fair for the customers. Guess we have to wait and see if and how it works out for everybody.
 
The basic idea from Sony is excellent and i really would like to have short demos for all games on all platforms. But this solution just doesn't sound very beneficial for the devs and putting it behind a paywall doesn't seem to be fair for the customers. Guess we have to wait and see if and how it works out for everybody.
Putting online behind a paywall was never beneficial to the costumer, yet here we are, same goes for cloud saves, F2P, etc. Ain't nobody going to not subscribe out of principle if they see enough value in it, we all know that.

I don't like a subscription only future where people don't need to buy games, to me, in the grand scheme of things, this sounds good.
 
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Nydius

Member
This is a good addition for consumers, though crappy it's behind a top tier paywall service.

For developers though, mandating that they must include a demo is a pretty shitty deal. They shouldn't be forced to add more work on top of their original game development just to accomodate Sony's demand. As someone else said earlier in the thread, if Sony really wants to do this on the premium tier, they should simply allow a universal 2 hour trial of all full games that's controlled at the subscription/platform level instead of forcing devs to make a demo fork of their games.
 

reksveks

Member
Man why are so many of you worried about this? Are you guys developers? I don't see so much concern when there's a crunch topic around here.

This is good for you...a consumer. That's all it matters.
I am not worried. I am interested. I am not worried about MS/Sony/Nintendo's finances but just interested.

I did say in my first comment, as a Sony player you would be happy.

Re: the crunch thing, I kinda know what comments are going to come up in those threads so just avoid them personally.
 

yurinka

Member
The idea is good, not sure about the execution though. Wouldn't be easier to just allow anyone a refund if they play less than 2 hours? Isn't that what Steam do? That way, you don't need to give extra work for devs, and it's also much more logical. Also, they should allow it for everyone... I don't agree that just Premium subscribers should be able to try games out.
For developers though, mandating that they must include a demo is a pretty shitty deal. They shouldn't be forced to add more work on top of their original game development just to accomodate Sony's demand. As someone else said earlier in the thread, if Sony really wants to do this on the premium tier, they should simply allow a universal 2 hour trial of all full games that's controlled at the subscription/platform level instead of forcing devs to make a demo fork of their games.

Here devs can decide the lenght of the demo, which should be at least 2 hours. No extra work required to make a demo, they can add a time limit trial to the full game.

At least in the App Store efunds means the dev doesn't return their 70%, they return the 100%. Meaning that the platform holder still earns their 30%, and that the dev loses 30%. So no, it's a bad idea to abuse devs, specially the ones with low sales or with games that are shorter than 2 hours.
 
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reksveks

Member
Shouldn't we first wait till it's not a rumor anymore?

As likely as I think it is, there is no confirmation for Sony enforcing it, or did I miss it?

And again, (1 hour) trials were already part of PS+ since the beginning, but nobody cared (neither users, nor Sony/devs).
Good point, and saw the blog post that you link.

Yeah, it would be interesting to see but above 34 euro's would still count as 'select games'.
 
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SONY ITSELF

I think we need to consider the source on this here. SELECT GAMES, by Sony's own clarification of the "perk" does not mean ALL GAMES.

We all got caught up in the quoted source to consider what SONY THEMSELVES HAVE STATED.

It's an exciting(to some) to think about getting a 2 hour trial of ANY NEW GAME, but in reality this will probably be as useless as their OLD trail system on Plus of the past, where very few devs bothered with the game trials.

Yes, select games, over 34 dollars
 

GHound

Member
SONY ITSELF

I think we need to consider the source on this here. SELECT GAMES, by Sony's own clarification of the "perk" does not mean ALL GAMES.

We all got caught up in the quoted source to consider what SONY THEMSELVES HAVE STATED.

It's an exciting(to some) to think about getting a 2 hour trial of ANY NEW GAME, but in reality this will probably be as useless as their OLD trail system on Plus of the past, where very few devs bothered with the game trials.
Nobody got caught up in anything. Games that are not VR in nature and have a price greater than $34 would very much fall under the purview of "select."
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I know it's an unpopular opinion on here, but I disagree.

Players should do their research and be more discriminating about what they buy with their own hard-earned money.

Refunds should be available to everyone for broken games, but Sony already offers this.
Agreed with all these points.
You shouldn't be automatically entitled to a refund just because you disliked the game after buying it. You don't get this in many other retail sectors.
Retail allows you to trade in your games. Some places like Gamestop offer $55 for a trade in if you can finish it in three days after launch. Regardless, I cant trade in my digital purchases which is why refunds are important.

Regardless, this isn't about refunds. It's about a higher tier PS+ option also offering timed game trials.

We don't currently have any trials on PS Store at the moment. So this would be an addition available to those who choose to sub to the higher service.
I am ok with trials for PS+ members. I just dont like devs being forced to do it. That's all. Not every game is for everyone, but a lot of times people get swept up by the hype and make purchases they wont make. Devs unfortunately need those suckers. Sometimes those 2-5% (going by trophy percetanges for early game trophies here) are the profit margin for some of these devs.
You say this, while claiming that refunds should be freely available to all. Which is it then?

Either people should know what they're buying, take responsibility for their own purchases and not be entitled to a refund just because of buyers remorse, or they shouldn't be responsible and can be offered free access to refunds or timed trials/demos. They can't have both.
Again, it ties back to the fact that I cant trade in my digital games. I personally dont like the whole 2 hour return period. Like i said above i agree that you should make your decision before you buy a movie or a game, but if you go to a theater and walk out within half an hour, most movie chains will refund you the ticket. I think Sony just needs to offer refunds for games you accidently purchased which they currently dont do if you started the download which can happen automatically in some cases. They are very rigid about returns.
Wut?!? Not following your logic here.

If a gamer is initially uninterested or on the fence, tries the game, then finds they like it and go through with a purchase, surely that increases sales?

It sounds like you're advocating for gamers not having the option to try before they buy so that those who buy and dislike the game will be stuck with it; as long as the dev gets a sale.... how is that consistent with your refund comment?
Yeah, i knew it didnt completely make sense while I was writing it but my thinking is that you need to think about both devs and gamers. This option does not benefit the gamer or the dev. One is forced to make trials available to everyone while the other is forced to buy a $120 subscription just to be able to get a refund. On paper, yes, devs might find a bigger audience but they are being forced to make their games available on a subscription service they might not want for fear of losing those sucker sales, and on paper, yes the gamer finally has more choice when it comes to refunds but they still have to spend $120 to get there. It's not ideal is what I was trying to say there but i get that it might have come across as a bit obtuse.
There will be more gamers trying the game who on the fence and deciding to buy it afterwards... proof? Phil Spencer's comments on the impact of GamePass on game sales on the Xbox platform.
Again, the difference is that they are being forced to put their game on this subscription whereas Gamepass gives them a choice. If devs wanted to opt in, Sony wouldve known this and wouldnt have forced this on everyone. Clearly, sony is making this mandatory because devs werent going to opt in.
 
I am ok with trials for PS+ members. I just dont like devs being forced to do it. That's all. Not every game is for everyone, but a lot of times people get swept up by the hype and make purchases they wont make. Devs unfortunately need those suckers. Sometimes those 2-5% (going by trophy percetanges for early game trophies here) are the profit margin for some of these devs.

They don't need to offer the trials right away so they'll still get those compulsive buyers.
 
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Nydius

Member
No extra work required to make a demo, they can add a time limit trial to the full game.
The fact that they'd have to code both a timer and an in-game purchase check in order to create a time limit trial function is, most certainly, "extra work". It's code they wouldn't be required to write otherwise. And that's the easiest solution.

I stand by my original comment: If Sony wants to give 2 hour trials on their top tier subscription service, the onus should be on them to make that a platform-specific perk that they control, not mandate developers add more development time to meet Sony's new criteria for selling on their platform.
 
huh, Sony has that amount of power to do so especially for devs outside of 1st party studios?
Of course they do. Just like Microsoft had the power to force all developers to add achievements when they launched the 360.

Obviously, the publishers also have the power to just not release their game on PlayStation.
 

KungFucius

King Snowflake
Why is this a pay for feature? Shouldn't demos be free to all people who might buy your product? Only gamers who have the service get to check out games this way, others get no trial, no returns, nothing to motivate them to give something a chance. Lame.
 

phil_t98

#SonyToo
Yes, it could have that same effect that Phil said about Gamepass where people bought even more games that were on Gamepass, but in this case the effect should be even bigger since you need to buy the game to play it. Massive win for devs.


But I just said that.

again this is different to game pass, its forcing devs to give away 2 hour trials of their game. this could be positive for them yes but it also could be really negative in terms of less day one sales or less preorders.

also the extra work for the devs to build in and code a timer to their game seems silly
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
The fact that they'd have to code both a timer and an in-game purchase check in order to create a time limit trial function is, most certainly, "extra work". It's code they wouldn't be required to write otherwise. And that's the easiest solution.

I stand by my original comment: If Sony wants to give 2 hour trials on their top tier subscription service, the onus should be on them to make that a platform-specific perk that they control, not mandate developers add more development time to meet Sony's new criteria for selling on their platform.
I bet it's in the SDK, much like remote play and other firmware feature toggles in the devkit.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
Isn't this actually perfect for the consumer? Meaning, good games actually get a boost in sales, while the shit sinks and dies. I'm 100% on board with it and Steam does it already too.
I want more good games, less bad games.

If I were a developer, I wouldn't be fond of a forced demo on a game that I can maybe see is having some issues with focus groups, etc. It would be much harder to try and set the edges there. Nor, do I think every developer is bad when they have a game that doesn't hit quite as good as they wanted, maybe their next project would have been great. In a market where one flop can take you out all together, I'm not sure the end results are universally positive. It should be opt-in IMO. On top of that is the issue of this being a perk for an additional profit tier for Sony, it would irk me double if the demo was costing me sales so that Sony could earn a little extra at my expense. Hopefully their is some kind of financial incentive for the dev based on hours played etc.

But, like I said as a player I do enjoy the demos, they can definitely help you avoid purchasing things you wouldn't really be interested in.
 
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ToadMan

Member
Would be awesome to see someone like Rockstar or Call of Duty saying


I Dont Think So No Way GIF


As a customer, It would be pretty great. As a dev, I would be pissed.

Locking it behind Premium is so, so stupid tho

IW saying no? I think you should check the news about ownership changes there. Some believe COD is going exclusive despite the claims of MS. But regardless - COD is a MP title with a short campaign. They’ll provide a time lock demo of MP - maybe even the whole thing will be FTP and this problem is gone.

As for rockstar - they’re in bed with Sony anyway. But I wouldn’t be surprised if their next game is FTP and the campaign is paid “DLC” like the GTA5 remaster.

The rest of the remaining independent 3rd parties aren’t big enough to turn this down if Sony really sticks to this requirement. In reality this is a 2 hour demo of single player games. MP games will welcome the few hours to try and hook players.

But people are overstating it. The premium tier won’t have a massive uptake - but in reality if you choose not to buy 2 games you may have without trials, you’ve saved the subscription cost.
 

Jaybe

Member
I’m curious since this is a perk of the subscription if the developer gets some revenue for each download/time played, I.e the carrot. Also curious what ‘the stick’ is.
 
SONY ITSELF

I think we need to consider the source on this here. SELECT GAMES, by Sony's own clarification of the "perk" does not mean ALL GAMES.

We all got caught up in the quoted source to consider what SONY THEMSELVES HAVE STATED.

It's an exciting(to some) to think about getting a 2 hour trial of ANY NEW GAME, but in reality this will probably be as useless as their OLD trail system on Plus of the past, where very few devs bothered with the game trials.
Games over $34, not all games.
 

kyliethicc

Member
SONY ITSELF

I think we need to consider the source on this here. SELECT GAMES, by Sony's own clarification of the "perk" does not mean ALL GAMES.

We all got caught up in the quoted source to consider what SONY THEMSELVES HAVE STATED.

It's an exciting(to some) to think about getting a 2 hour trial of ANY NEW GAME, but in reality this will probably be as useless as their OLD trail system on Plus of the past, where very few devs bothered with the game trials.
This rumour isn't saying all games either

Anyone who thought Sony would let them play up to 2 hours of Knack for just $17.99 is a fool.
 

jaysius

Banned
The fact that they'd have to code both a timer and an in-game purchase check in order to create a time limit trial function is, most certainly, "extra work". It's code they wouldn't be required to write otherwise. And that's the easiest solution.

I stand by my original comment: If Sony wants to give 2 hour trials on their top tier subscription service, the onus should be on them to make that a platform-specific perk that they control, not mandate developers add more development time to meet Sony's new criteria for selling on their platform.
Not only that, but special work to ensure trial users don’t pop trophies and then more work to ensure trial conversions pop them correctly after buying.
 
My only issue with this is that it's tied to PS+. This means, as an example, Capcom has to offer players an option, if, and only if, the player pays SONY extra money.
 

ToadMan

Member
If I were a developer, I wouldn't be fond of a forced demo on a game that I can maybe see is having some issues with focus groups, etc. It would be much harder to try and set the edges there. Nor, do I think every developer is bad when they have a game that doesn't hit quite as good as they wanted, maybe their next project would have been great. In a market where one flop can take you out all together, I'm not sure the end results are universally positive. It should be opt-in IMO. On top of that is the issue of this being a perk for an additional profit tier for Sony, it would irk me double if the demo was costing me sales so that Sony could earn a little extra at my expense. Hopefully their is some kind of financial incentive for the dev based on hours played etc.

But, like I said as a player I do enjoy the demos, they can definitely help you avoid purchasing things you wouldn't really be interested in.

So presumably this alternate reality you hypothesise about doesn’t include reviews, streaming, YouTube, forums, steam refunds or indeed services like gamepass where a lot of those mediocre games land on Xbox. You know - the places people learn about games already …

There is no downside to this solution except that it is not universal for all games and instead Sony had to force it and lock it behind a paywall so devs wouldn’t shit the bed over it.

With any luck devs will add the timer and make it available to everyone and that will become the norm going forward for all games.
 

ToadMan

Member
IMAGINE this feature during cyberpunks launch

Would’ve saved me refunding the game.

Also imagine this during the launch of the next gen patch of Cyberpunk a few months back? Oh we don’t have to - there was a 5 hour trial offered …

And guess what, at the end of that trial I bought the game again….
 

oldergamer

Member
Surely this could effect games sales massively?
it could, but requiring demos in a age where demos are very prevalent is a really strange and old school approach. Why should these companies spend money to create a demo that they aren't paid to make?? Basically you are making something that helps Sony make money on subscriptions, but the developer make next to nothing?
 

Omali

Member
Not only that, but special work to ensure trial users don’t pop trophies and then more work to ensure trial conversions pop them correctly after buying.
Why would this be a thing? Sony has already tested free trials and you could get trophies through them without buying the game.
 

Neilg

Member
Yeah this seems like something that be controlled on the platform level. Give people universal access for 2 hours. After that time the license is suspended until you pay. Why should this be on devs to enable?
thats what sony is doing. you can either roll out a custom demo build, or we'll do the 2hr timer for you.
 
again this is different to game pass, its forcing devs to give away 2 hour trials of their game. this could be positive for them yes but it also could be really negative in terms of less day one sales or less preorders.

also the extra work for the devs to build in and code a timer to their game seems silly
Well, you could think of Gamepass as "forcing" devs to put their game on it for whatever MS is offering or they'll be left in the dust as people are being taught that games aren't something you buy.

I'm grew up as a PC games and If there is something I like are demos.

The price point Sony chose also excludes most indie devs and shorter games, so they are "safe" from this. I'm pretty sure bug publishers releasing AAA games can afford to let people play for 2 hours to make sure they really want to buy it.
 
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ToadMan

Member
True. I guess we will wait and see. Hopefully, third-parties get some sort of cut.

Totally spitballing - but I could imagine a small consideration based on trial activations - possibly linked to subsequent sales. Just to sweeten the deal for devs to accept the requirement.

For example - Sony could reduce the revenue split they take - I think that’s nominally 30% - maybe for premium subscriber purchases it’s only 28% say.

But I’m by no means saying that’s certain … Sony may just be playing big dog and counting on the remaining independent third parties to defy them on this.
 
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jaysius

Banned
Let’s just wait and see the first big game that uses this as an excuse for a major delay and then check the temperature on this feature.
 
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