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Microsoft thinks they can "add-on" their way out of any technical short comings. They're going to learn the hard way (Sega way) that there are some add-ons you simply can't sell to the public. There's no amount of add-ons that could have saved the Dreamcast in the face of the PS2's technical superiority. (By the time PS2 hit Dreamcast had an inferior controller, an inferior memory card, a grossly inferior game media, an inferior cpu, inferior gpu, and it lacked a DVD player.) With the exception of the modem, everything that had been seen as huge advancements when Dreamcast was first released was suddenly seen as unacceptable and incompatible with expected standards the PS2 had set. Sony will very easily be able to do the same to Xbox 2. When Xbox 2 releases everything will be the most advanced on the market. By the time PS3 hits everything on Xbox from the controller to the ethernet cord will be seen as detestable in the eyes of developers and consumers.

How's that add-on hard drive working out for Sony? We're talking about the most powerful and skilled company in the video game business and they can't even sell this add-on. Sony can sell the Eye Toy, Sony can sell the network adapter, but if they can't even sell an external hard drive then Microsoft sure as shit isn't going to be able to pull it off.

The first console of the generation spends the rest of it's life trying to add-on it's way out of a feeling of inadequacy. It happened with the Genesis, it was starting with the Dreamcast, and we're certainly in the midst of it with the PS2 (modem/camera/hard drive).

Microsoft launching early with a barebones machine is a great reason to build DVR functionality, advanced eye toy specific features, online digital entertainment, and exclusive PSP related features right into the core of PS3. They'll think of something I can't think of. When Sega announced Dreamcast in early 1998 do you think anyone expected that niche DVD movie playback would ever become synonymous with video game consoles?

 

[mr2mike]

I'm no expert but they seem to be talking about Directx 10 features for the GPU (virtual video memory, unified shaders...)... doesn't that screw with the statment thaht it's a DX9 part?

 

[BlackSalad]

How's that add-on hard drive working out for Sony? We're talking about the most powerful and skilled company in the video game business and they can't even sell this add-on. Sony can sell the Eye Toy, Sony can sell the network adapter, but if they can't even sell an external hard drive then Microsoft sure as shit isn't going to be able to pull it off.

I disagree on that one. If ps2 games actually offered vast improvement with the HDD, I'm sure it would sell more, but there are very few that utilize the add on. While on the otherhand, say it enhanced performance and gameplay like the n64's expansion pack (which was very popular) then i think it would sell. They could even make it easy on themselves and bundle it with a game or "XBOX LIVE 2"and sell it.

 

[Mystifizor]

If these specs are true...damn.... then I want to see the PS3 specs!

 

[ravingloon]

For those of you wondering about 1080i, the original document lists that specifically.

shpankey: The reason a 1080p camera is important, among other things, is that unless there are everyday applications driving this, it's not gonna see mass-market implementation... which is gonna keep prices high. Bandwith also equals money and 1080P seems very implausible as a standard because corporations can get away with lower standards and the casual customer is still gonna be pleased.

Now I realize games are independent of this, but your typical gamer isn't gonna create enough of a 1080P demand to lower prices to mass market levels (Howefully some of these technologies that KLee keeps posting will change things, but currently....)

EDIT: Hopefully HD-DVD will change this. A 1080P resolution for that would give a real mass market app to lower these prices. We need the videophiles to have a killer-app to drive down the prices for everyone else.

 

[iapetus]

Reading through this document, I figure it's a fake based on current rumours about the XBox 2 specs.

 

[Pug]

Iapetus your ironic humour gets better by the day.

 

[ge-man]

Interesting specs. I'm especially intriguied by the flexible shader assignments. I wonder if Nintendo's GPU will feature similiar flexiblity.

 

[gofreak]

I'm kinda surprised they're talking about DX9.0+ and not DXNext. It should be bumped up to support DXNext fully..you can see they're talking about including some DXNext features, so hopefully it won't be too big a deal for push for full support. Xenon should be a DXNext box, in the same way that Xbox was a DX8 box..it'll help PC/Xbox cross development a lot.

 

[thorns]

http://www.tantalon.com/pete.html

suppossedly author of this document.. anybody want to mail him?

3 dual core 3.5ghz ppc cpus? this thing is going to be insanely fast..

 

[sprsk]

powerful enough to emulate xbox one?

mm iii dunnooo about that

 

[open_mouth_]

It's highly probably that there will be some kind of built in flash storage in the Xenon... most probably in the area of ~1 gig total for downloads, music, saves, etc. This will allow the Xenon to be much smaller than the current Xbox (a big issue with alot of consumers apparently) AND to still remain relatively inexpensive compared to the larger HD drives.

There's a small chance the controllers will be wireless, but I'd bet that they won't (cost savings issue mostly) but that the Xenon will have Wavebird like wireless controllers available at retail at the time of launch. It will likely have a high speed "memory stick" port for larger add-on drives and even that ipod-lite device that was rumored.

As for sphankey's other main complaints: Ram and 1080p support... 256 is already a hefty amount, but an upgrade is still possible from now until launch. And 1080p support is just wasteful as full default 1080i/720p would've been this gen.

All that power in a $299 box is pretty unreal, even if it launches in mid to late 2006. Your bitching is premature and unwarranted at this point.

 

[DopeyFish]

ommg controller s black and white buttons being replaced by shoulder buttons?!

that would be like teh ultimate controller

MUs are connected directly to the console, not to controllers as on Xbox. The initial size of the MUs is 64 MB, although larger MUs may be available in the future. MU throughput is expected to be around 8 MB/sec for reads and 1 MB/sec for writes.

omg wtf.

 

[open_mouth_]

agreed about the controller. If they can get the placement of the shoulder buttons so your index fingers rest comfortably on them while your middle fingers can still easily press in the triggers, then they'll have the ultimate controller, imo. Wireless support wouldn't hurt, either.

 

[P90]

The standard Xenon controller will have a look and feel similar to the Xbox controller.

The kiss of death?

 

[Killbin]

agreed about the controller. If they can get the placement of the shoulder buttons so your index fingers rest comfortably on them while your middle fingers can still easily press in the triggers, then they'll have the ultimate controller, imo. Wireless support wouldn't hurt, either.

Damn imo the Xbox controller is a bunch of crap
Hmmm.... but good for FPS

 

[BeOnEdge]

The kiss of death?

?¿?¿? XB controller S>>>>any other controller. haters hate on EVERYTHING.

 

[P90]

?¿?¿? XB controller S>>>>any other controller. haters hate on EVERYTHING.

lol

Maybe they can make Xbox next compatible with the dual shock2...

 

[BoboBrazil]

It needs atleast 512 meg ram.

 

[maximum360]

I agree. The xbox controller are great. If they could fit two shoulder buttons (similar to the Z-button on the GC control pad) on either side right above the two analog triggers it would then be exceptional.

These specs sound interesting. 1080p would be great but I'm not holding my breath. In a few years 1080p sets will be available (probably mostly DLP or CNT displays) that offer line doubling or upscaling from 702p/1080i to 1080p so it won't be that bad. As long as they don't do a 720p hack job like Namco did with Soul Calibur 2. (I hate black bars on the side of my screen...and as a result I have an ever so slight sign of burn in....).

It would be interesting to see how the CELL specs compare.

 

[Lazy8s]

GPU sounds interesting. It's not scaling up from the monster PC GPUs of today in raw specs as you'd expect by Nov 2005; it's offering a different approach for a lot of expanded functionality rather.

 

[DSN2K]

VGA output ?


YES PLEASE

 

[sonycowboy]

Leaked Xenon spec looks genuine, say experts

Rob Fahey 16:04 23/06/2004

Latest leak from Microsoft's ATG looks like the real deal, according to developers

A document purporting to be the currently planned specification for Microsoft's next-generation console has been leaked onto the Internet, and information in it tallies with what the company has told development partners, gi.biz has learned.

Although the document, which claims to have been authored by Pete Isensee at the Xbox Advanced Technology Group, admits that many of its figures are subject to change, developers working on Xenon technology have confirmed to us today that the details it contains are genuine.

The hardware overview outlines a system with three 3.5Ghz PowerPC G5 CPU cores, built onto one silicon die, a 500Mhz ATI graphics unit with a 10Mb on-board framebuffer and 256Mb of main RAM shared between the graphics unit and CPU system.

The document notes that the speed of the CPU cores, the graphics core and the amount of RAM are subject to change in the final specification for the system - so aside from being unsurprising in themselves, they are only an indication of Microsoft's current thinking on the console, rather than a set in stone specification.

However, a number of interesting additional features are revealed for the first time in the document - and it is these which our development sources have fingered as confirming the veracity of the leak.

The ATI graphics unit will have the ability to read directly from the Level 2 cache on the CPU cores - effectively providing a 1Mb shared "scratch pad" which can be accessed from all three CPU cores and the GPU, a unique feature of the system which has not been widely known outside the development community until now.

The document also reveals that the GPU will implement a number of unique and powerful extensions to the pixel and vertex shader systems in DirectX 9.0 - including the ability for shaders to fetch directly from the console's main memory, which should open up the possibility of implementing many previously impossible features in shader code.

Xenon is set to ship with a 100mb network socket (compared with a 10mb socket in the Xbox) and USB2 sockets for connecting storage devices, cameras, microphones and other such devices, according to the outline, and will once again support four controllers.

The document does not answer the questions being posed about the inclusion of a hard-drive in the system - stating only that no decision has yet been taken, but that if one does not ship as standard, it will certainly be available as an integrated extra. This certainly seems to imply that the decision is being made on a cost basis - with the hard drive being a non-essential component that could potentially drive the manufacture cost of the console up drastically.

Interestingly, the outline acknowledges that developing games which take advantage of the system will be "a daunting task," going on to explain that "writing multithreaded games is not trivial." A number of elements of the Xenon system software (a Windows NT based operating system) will be designed to take advantage of the multiprocessor nature of the system, it claims, while the Xbox ATG is working on ways of offloading graphics work to the CPUs of the machine.

Developers working on Xenon technology to whom we showed the document today confirmed that it tallies with what they have been told by Microsoft about the specification of the new console - even down to the continuing procrastination over making a decision on RAM size and the inclusion of a hard drive, both issues which have not been solved as yet.

"I've not actually seen this specific document coming from Microsoft," one developer told us this afternoon, "but there's certainly nothing in there which doesn't fit with what they've been telling us. If this is a hoax, which I doubt, it's a hoax so close to the truth that it hardly makes any odds."

The document itself goes into far more detail about the processing, graphics and audio systems on the Xenon console. It can be found in its entirety on the Xbox-Scene forum, where we believe it originated.

 

[siamesedreamer]

I skipped throught this, so I don't know if anyone adressed this.

Why can't the just put in a HDD that has less storage space? Wouldn't that be cheaper for them? I know I've got a ton of game saves and music saves on my Xbox and it still says 50,000+ memory slots. Seems like the HDD in Xbox1 was overkill.

 

[open_mouth_]

I skipped throught this, so I don't know if anyone adressed this.

Why can't the just put in a HDD that has less storage space? Wouldn't that be cheaper for them? I know I've got a ton of game saves and music saves on my Xbox and it still says 50,000+ memory slots. Seems like the HDD in Xbox1 was overkill.

I did address this... I believe MS will likely put in a flash-based storage unit (both small in physical size and capacity) to keep costs down and the Xenon small/cool.

 

[BuddyC]

Why can't the just put in a HDD that has less storage space? Wouldn't that be cheaper for them? I know I've got a ton of game saves and music saves on my Xbox and it still says 50,000+ memory slots. Seems like the HDD in Xbox1 was overkill.

No, actually. I remember reading that no one makes smaller HDD's anymore, so MS has to special order them.

 

[Gek54]

If USB 2.0 means TFF Wheel support then I am halfway there.

 

[sprsk]

xbox s-controller rules. And if this is true im soooooooooo glad they got rid of those pesky black and white buttons. I feel the racial tension every time i pick up a controller!

 

[gofreak]

GPU sounds interesting. It's not scaling up from the monster PC GPUs of today in raw specs as you'd expect by Nov 2005; it's offering a different approach for a lot of expanded functionality rather.

The PC cards of 2005/2006 will have a similar architecture. Sure, it's not today's cards simply scaled up, but PC cards won't be either

Also, sonycowboy, it's rude to copy and paste entire articles, let alone not have any link.

 

[ravingloon]

I definetely disagree with the 256MB Ram is enough arguement. I think 1GB is wasteful, but 512 is essential. Especially since MS has gone away from shunning PC ports and is now using them as its main source of awesome titles. 1G (which my computer has) to me is just wasteful programming and isn't needed in a console if its at the expense of other components.

 

[Tenguman]

Leaked Xenon spec looks genuine, say experts

Man Microsoft must be PISSED. They are the worst company when it comes to keeping secrets.

Sony must be happy though, unless they already knew the specs.

 

[WordofGod]

My gut instinct says this document was leaked by Microsoft just to see what gamers would say. They will then change the things people complain about the most. Didn't any of you find it strange that yesterday we were talking about how Xbox 2 would not be backwards compatible and now, one day later, we have a leaked document from a developer that's says backwards compatibility can really be done but it will take some work?

People often ask if Xenon can be backward compatible with Xbox. Although the architecture of the two consoles is quite different, Xenon has the processing power to emulate Xbox. Whether Xenon will be backward compatible involves a variety of factors, not the least of which is the massive development and testing effort required to allow Xbox games run on Xenon.

 

[Tenguman]

My gut instinct says this document was leaked by Microsoft just to see what gamers would say. They will then change the things people complain about the most. Didn't any of you find it strange that yesterday we were talking about how Xbox 2 would not be backwards compatible and now, one day later, we have a lead document from a developer that's says backwards compatibility can really be done but it will take some work?

That's pretty ridiculous. They wouldn't have made the document so intimate on the details if they just wanted to do that.


Besides, emulating the xbox for retail use poses crazy programming problems - they probably won't do it but they'll spend the time to try.

 

[human5892]

My gut instinct says this document was leaked by Microsoft just to see what gamers would say. They will then change the things people complain about the most.[/B]

IMO, that's too big a risk to justify input from the few gamers on messageboards who will read the leaked document; now Microsoft's competitors know where they're going with the system and can adjust their own specs if they feel the need. That doesn't seem worth it to satisfy a few hundred people on the Internet.

Plus, if they really wanted gamer feedback, there are plenty of better ways to get it that would still protect sensitive information, such as a focus group.

 

[DaCocoBrova]

I can't stand FSAA.

It worsens the overall IQ and kills frame rates. I have a PC more than capable of running FSAA at a clip over 60fps, but I don't bother because the benefits are negligible.

I wish they focused on other things. Why is Model3 the only hardware that is stuck @ 60fps?

 

[shpankey]

For those of you wondering about 1080i, the original document lists that specifically.

shpankey: The reason a 1080p camera is important, among other things, is that unless there are everyday applications driving this, it's not gonna see mass-market implementation... which is gonna keep prices high. Bandwith also equals money and 1080P seems very implausible as a standard because corporations can get away with lower standards and the casual customer is still gonna be pleased.

Now I realize games are independent of this, but your typical gamer isn't gonna create enough of a 1080P demand to lower prices to mass market levels (Howefully some of these technologies that KLee keeps posting will change things, but currently....)

EDIT: Hopefully HD-DVD will change this. A 1080P resolution for that would give a real mass market app to lower these prices. We need the videophiles to have a killer-app to drive down the prices for everyone else.

This is a great point. And pretty much the exact reason I wanted to see the consoles support the resolution. They have the fillrate and memory bandwidth to burn, it would be NOTHING off their backs. Hell, my old graphics cards can run 1600x1200 with FSAA and AF. A next gen console would have throwaway fillrate and memory bandwidth in order to do 1080p. By having the consoles do 1080p, THEY would be the driving force in the mainstream 1080p proliferation, much like PS2 did to DVD and thereby fullfiling your point.

A camera is not gonna do it.

 

[GashPrex]

if those are true, got to love the cpu power of the xenon - plus I really like the sound of the customization of the GPU and the vertex shaders

 

[Lazy8s]

gofreak:

The PC cards of 2005/2006 will have a similar architecture.

A lot of the differences that the Xenon GPU would have compared to a PC part of that era should come from it being designed for the custom, closed environment of a console platform. Some of those important differences of expanded functionality described in the paper don't sound like access that'll be in a PC implementation.

 

[WordofGod]

That's pretty ridiculous. They wouldn't have made the document so intimate on the details if they just wanted to do that.

Think about this; Microsoft issued a press release yesterday saying that backwards compatibility had not been scraped and that the news journalists that had been saying no backwards compatibility were on crack. Then today we get a "leaked" document with almost all the specs for Xbox 2 that says Microsoft can do backwards compatibility, but that it is still not final. I wonder if these specs are not final, and Microsoft is just throwing them out there on the net to see what people would think of them.

 

[mr2mike]

Well they probably have a target launch price, and all that's subject to change will change as the parts come down in price over time as the launch nears.

Most likey if the price of ram falls and those PPCs get better yeilds, you'll see more ram and faster chips.

I dont think they really plan on really listening to gamers as far as building the system goes, it's much wiser to listen to the developpers instead.
'
Maybe the only thing that could change due to public outcry could be the HD, and even then, My bet would be: Only if it fits in their dollar plan when the time comes to decide on exact final hardware for manufacturing.

 

[BeOnEdge]

I definetely disagree with the 256MB Ram is enough arguement. I think 1GB is wasteful, but 512 is essential. Especially since MS has gone away from shunning PC ports and is now using them as its main source of awesome titles. 1G (which my computer has) to me is just wasteful programming and isn't needed in a console if its at the expense of other components.

its a console. not a pc.

 

[GigaDrive]

I agree that 256 is not enough memory, even concidering this is a console not a PC. look the NAOMI 2 board has close to 128 MB, if not quite 128 MB. the Xbox based Chihiro has 128 MB. what do you think Sega's next board will have? I don't think it could be any less than 256.

Xbox 2 being a next-gen console that needs to last until at least 2009 before an Xbox 3 could possibly come out (4 years) is gonna need ample memory for next gen games. If Xbox 2 gets only 256 MB memory, that's like Xbox having 32 MB instead of 64 MB. even 512 is gonna be just barely enough for many developers, IMO.

 

[GigaDrive]

A lot of the differences that the Xenon GPU would have compared to a PC part of that era should come from it being designed for the custom, closed environment of a console platform. Some of those important differences of expanded functionality described in the paper don't sound like access that'll be in a PC implementation.

combine that with the fact that no PC CPU is going to have 3 dual threading cores, and you have a platform that is very very non PC style.

 

[sonycowboy]

Think about this; Microsoft issued a press release yesterday saying that backwards compatibility had not been scraped and that the news journalists that had been saying no backwards compatibility were on crack. Then today we get a "leaked" document with almost all the specs for Xbox 2 that says Microsoft can do backwards compatibility, but that it is still not final. I wonder if these specs are not final, and Microsoft is just throwing them out there on the net to see what people would think of them.

That just doesn't make sense. I can understand a few basic questions. Hard Drive / No Hard Drive , BC / No BC, but to "leak" a 3CPU core, the specific GPU specs, etc would not yield any useful response. This was not leaked by Microsoft.

Given todays internet world, I expect the same thing to leak when Sony actually gives developers thier specs. Some developer will leak it within a few days. It's inevitable. There are over 50-60 dev houses that have to be given these specs this early on, times 100 people per location.

I'm also sure Sony knows exactly what M$ is doing and vice versa, at least as far as what they've told devs/publishers. You just can't expect that stuff to stay quiet. However, that can also easily lead to both Sony & M$ holding some things back for competitive reasons.

 

[dynamitejim]

256MB definitely doesn't sound like enough. But it makes me wonder what kind of RAM it is and what speed it's running at. What's the bus-width on the GPU? Is it possible to guess at these things with the specs given? I suppose it's also possible that ATI has come up with some kind of advanced normal map compression. Something even better than 3Dc on the R420.

 

[cja]

These specs are classic Nintendo emulated by Microsoft! Low cost for components that are unlikely to fall in price rapidly and don't constitute much of a factor for the casual gamer:

DVD drive rather than HD-DVD - low media player costs ala cartridge and god.
Unlikely to have a HDD as standard - make the consumer pay for the "peripherals".
Software emulation for sound via CPU - not enough people care about sound quality, its a poor opportunity cost.
Low balling on memory - you can always mask the lack of RAM with compression technologies or even add it on later (S3TC, RAM pak).

However, the most important components (CPU and GPU w/edram and caches) see Microsoft going all out for a high specced product. Despite a very high initial cost the silicon will fall in price exponential once early teething problems with yields are sorted out.

The strict component costs are added to with some already clever design choices. Usage of the PPC rather than an Intel CPU architecture means you can use a lighter and cheaper power supply. By not having a HDD as standard you reduce the size and weight of the final product. Shipping and logistics costs are greatly reduced, maybe a small blip on a $300 product but it becomes a big portion of the pie when you reach $99.

Unlike Xbox 1 the sequel will not continue to be a high cost product throughout its life cycle. If these specs are representative of the final machine Microsoft have a real chance of competing with Sony and Nintendo next-gen, not only on userbase numbers, that'll make fanboys happy, but also cost of goods which should please the MSFT shareholders.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

I love how people are saying that the new 'leaked' console specs, like RAM are too low. We don't even know what Nintendo and Sony are putting into their machines. Hmmm...maybe it's the same amount of RAM?

 

[ravingloon]

shpankey: I'll admit I haven't looked at the upscale HDTVs for a while. My point about 1080P with HD-DVD is this, if the low yield technology of 1080P HDTVs means the entry point is 5000 dollars, the videogame market isn't gonna move many of these televisions. A HD-DVD format that did 1080P would get the fat cat videophiles who drop insane amounts to get some volume going (which is what always brings prices down... barring technological innovations that are hopefully coming soon.)

I dont think they really plan on really listening to gamers as far as building the system goes, it's much wiser to listen to the developpers instead.

Have you ever seen a developer NOT want as much RAM they can possibly get?

Also about the PC and multi-core processors. I'm not a tech-head like some, but the recent report of power issues causing AMD to begin rolling out Dual-Processor chip Opteron's (dual CPUs on 1 chip) in 2005, with consumer models in late 2005 makes me wonder if everything isn't gonna be multi-chip CPUs in the future.

 

[GigaDrive]

newest article from GI.biz

Microsoft slams "irresponsible" speculation over Xbox 2

GamesIndustry.biz staff 16:33 23/06/2004
gi.biz stands by its reports, and Microsoft issues no denials


In a break from its usual refusal to comment on rumours, Microsoft has branded stories carried by this and other sites relating to the company's plans for Xbox 2 as "pulp fiction" - but has failed to deny the stories, or to back up its allegations.

A statement apparently issued in response to our report earlier this week that Xbox 2 would not be backwards-compatible describes recent reports on Xbox 2 as "nothing more than pulp fiction" and says that "this media conjecture is irresponsible."

It goes on to question the credibility of sites reporting on Xbox 2, saying that "the credibility of any publication willing to compromise fact in favour of a catchy headline must be questioned. Xbox fans are smart enough to distinguish truth from sensational reporting."

However, at no point does the statement deny the accuracy of the story - saying only that "Microsoft hasn't made any announcements regarding the next generation, so it's far too early to speculate about specifics." In other words, if it's not an official Microsoft announcement, it's "irresponsible" to report it.

GamesIndustry.biz absolutely stands by the accuracy of its reporting on the backwards compatibility of the Xbox 2. This story was not "speculation" - it was based on comments made by an extremely senior member of the Xbox division at Microsoft, which were conveyed to journalists working on this site by a well-placed source close to the company.


At present, the technology to emulate Xbox hardware on the proposed Xbox 2 hardware simply does not exist - a fact which is acknowledged by a document released today which purports to be a leak of a white paper on the Xbox 2 ("Xenon") specification for developers.

"Although the architecture of the two consoles is quite different, Xenon has the processing power to emulate Xbox," the document claims. "Whether Xenon is backward compatible involves a variety of factors, not least of which is the massive development and testing effort required to allow Xbox games to run on Xenon."

This should come as no surprise, given that the Xenon hardware is based on the PowerPC G5 architecture. While Microsoft has successfully emulated the PC on previous PowerPC chips, albeit at a significant performance hit, it has not yet succeeded in doing so on the G5 - the first PowerPC chip to drop the x86-style "little endian" processing mode entirely, thus rendering the processing of x86 applications much more difficult.

Another factor may be the change from using NVIDIA as a GPU supplier to using ATI - while this element of the story IS in the realms of speculation, it has been suggested that Microsoft would be unable to emulate NVIDIA's GPU functions on the ATI hardware without risking a lawsuit from NVIDIA.

Given the disparaging remarks made by senior members of the Xbox team about the importance of backwards compatibility in consoles, it seems highly unlikely, then, that the next-generation system will include this feature - even regardless of the comments made to our source, which effectively rule out backwards compatibility entirely.

Much will probably depend, however, on the consumer backlash to the company's current unofficial stance on the feature. Microsoft has previously demonstrated a willingness to change its mind over even huge issues such as its controller design when faced with enough criticism from consumers. A strong backlash now against the lack of backward compatibility in current plans for Xbox 2 could make a significant difference to the console giant's thinking, much as the strong response from consumers and developers alike to plans to axe the hard drive has led to this issue being considered afresh, with a decision on the future of the component in Xenon yet to be reached.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?section_name=dev&aid=3669

so also, if enough gamers bitch about no BC, there's a chance MS might change their minds, lol.

I really care about BC but I do care about a HDD as a HDD is part of what makes the Xbox the Xbox. but if flash memory or some similar form of solid state memory can take a HDD's place and be even FASTER for streaming the components that make a large game world, I am all for it.

 

[sonycowboy]

^^^

Already posted like ~10-15 posts above.