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The Horizon: Forbidden West State of Play Gameplay Wasn't Actually From the Game

Tripolygon

Member
If I remember correctly, some developers hated E3 for that reason. They had to spend months creating demo's of their games just for the conference.
Its likely what happened here.
Some developers hated E3 because it was used as part of the development timeline so some studios tend to crunch to put something together for E3 it has nothing to do with the concept of a vertical slice. Because publishers want something to show stakeholders and also the general public to shore up excitement.

And it wastes dev time. How long does it take to create a CGI trailer? If its less time to bang one out then I'm all for it lol.
It isn't, it is part of software development. A vertical slice allows you to see all the game systems come together in a functional polished state. That way you can see what is working and what isn't. The majority of these vertical slices are not even shown to the general public, they use it to secure funding from publishers behind closed-door meetings. No publisher is going to give you money to create a game from tiny disparate prototypes.

Sounds like less work than creating a 12 min demo gameplay sequence.
CG trailers are not usually done in-house, there are other studios that specialize in creating CG trailers.
 
Some developers hated E3 because it was used as part of the development timeline so some studios tend to crunch to put something together for E3 it has nothing to do with the concept of a vertical slice. Because publishers want something to show stakeholders and also the general public to shore up excitement.


It isn't, it is part of software development. A vertical slice allows you to see all the game systems come together in a functional polished state. That way you can see what is working and what isn't. The majority of these vertical slices are not even shown to the general public, they use it to secure funding from publishers behind closed-door meetings. No publisher is going to give you money to create a game from tiny disparate prototypes.


CG trailers are not usually done in-house, there are other studios that specialize in creating CG trailers.
Hey I appreciate your response mate. Thanks for the insight into the dev process.
 
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Shakka43

Member

From 3:52 to 5:02.
Unless the person that plays it is super pro, I dont see how those movements are possible. Maybe I am shit player, and the system doesnt respond me faster.
All those animations and moves are in the game, the demo players is probably using auto lock to make their shooting more snappy. There is no scripted chase sequence like that in the game though.
 
The article wasn’t that bad and even points out how it was more than likely made to show off deep gameplay. Vertical slice is standard industry practice
 

Outlier

Member
C'mon Manabyte. Did you REALLY need to see big old softy Errend getting saved by stronk independent Aloy, AGAIN!?

I'm fine it's not there. Too much game in there, anyway. :p
 
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Sosokrates

Gold Member
They can make segments like this of "gameplay" designed to make a better first impression.

Its a trend that needs to go away, but fanfolk lap it up and are all like "nothing to see here" so they will continue to do it.
 

Yoboman

Member
If I remember correctly, some developers hated E3 for that reason. They had to spend months creating demo's of their games just for the conference.
Its likely what happened here.


And it wastes dev time. How long does it take to create a CGI trailer? If its less time to bang one out then I'm all for it lol.
It doesn't waste time at all. It helps create a focus for the features and a bar for the quality they want to set across the rest of the product. It also allows them to fully complete aspects of the game and analyse if it works or needs changing. It also helps to manage the project deadlines eg it took 3 months to make a vertical slice with these features, so we can do x amount in the following 3 years
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
It doesn't waste time at all. It helps create a focus for the features and a bar for the quality they want to set across the rest of the product. It also allows them to fully complete aspects of the game and analyse if it works or needs changing. It also helps to manage the project deadlines eg it took 3 months to make a vertical slice with these features, so we can do x amount in the following 3 years

The concept of vertical slices, most important in these kind of productions, can be an overall time saver and budget control mechanism as you get to the right concept before committing the full might (and cost) of the studio.

Hate to quote this video explaining it a bit more (not really, I love it ;)):

I feel like two PS5 exclusives, two news threads used to make a storm in a teacup. As if the final game was not receiving heaps of praise for the overall visuals (some bugs not withstanding).
 
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Dr Bass

Member
They can make segments like this of "gameplay" designed to make a better first impression.

Its a trend that needs to go away, but fanfolk lap it up and are all like "nothing to see here" so they will continue to do it.
The game is as good visually as that demo shows or better. I’m not sure what point you’re even trying to make.

There absolutely is “nothing to see” in the sense you are insinuating. It was a perfect demo. It sets up a short conflict. Shows recognized supporting characters. Shows various elements of the gameplay. The diving and swimming. All of those things are in the game, just not the scenario. This idea that they pulled some sort of fast one would only be supported by haters with a motive. Because if you just played the game you would see how unbelievably stupid it is to even make that suggestion.

Are you … making that suggestion?
 

Sosokrates

Gold Member
I dont have an issue with companies showing vertical slices, its that they call it "gameplay" which is the problem.

If they called it what it is "early in engine work/vertical slice" then theres no issue, but they don't because they know it would reduce hype.
 
I never thought Sony studios would be creating vertical slices just for the purposes of selling the game. I expect that from EA and Ubisoft. But here we are in 2022, and this is Jim Ryan’s PlayStation. Are we really that surprised?
No, we aren't surprised because a vertical slice has always been the only way t have polished gameplay ready to show one year or more before the game is ready to launch. If this wasn't a vertical slice the game should have launched one month after that SoP. Jim Ryan has nothing to do with it as it has been the Modus Operandi of PlayStation in forever and you, as often happen, do not know what you are talking about
 

Sosokrates

Gold Member
The game is as good visually as that demo shows or better. I’m not sure what point you’re even trying to make.

There absolutely is “nothing to see” in the sense you are insinuating. It was a perfect demo. It sets up a short conflict. Shows recognized supporting characters. Shows various elements of the gameplay. The diving and swimming. All of those things are in the game, just not the scenario. This idea that they pulled some sort of fast one would only be supported by haters with a motive. Because if you just played the game you would see how unbelievably stupid it is to even make that suggestion.

Are you … making that suggestion?
You will defend anything horizon related so discussing it with you is pointless.

I will just leave this video here and let people judge for themselves.


And this issue is not just about horizon, other companies do it too, but sony are definitely one of the ones who continue to show early footage not representive of final gameplay.
 
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SlimySnake

Member
No, we aren't surprised because a vertical slice has always been the only way t have polished gameplay ready to show one year or more before the game is ready to launch. If this wasn't a vertical slice the game should have launched one month after that SoP. Jim Ryan has nothing to do with it as it has been the Modus Operandi of PlayStation in forever and you, as often happen, do not know what you are talking about
lol PlayStation has been doing this forever?? Which demo did they show was not in the final game? Ratchet state of play? Demon souls state of play? The last of us e3 demo? Ghost of tsushima e3 demo? Spider-Man e3 demo? Days gone e3 demo? Gow e3 demo? Detroit? Horizon e3 20-6 demo. Uncharted 4 e3 and Psx demos? The last guardian? Kz sf ps reveal demo? They were all in the final game. Only the horizon e3 2015 demo was not in the final game but it was basically a trex fight which was in the final game.

This is literally the first time since e3 2005 that a Sony studio has created cutscenes with an entire gameplay level that was not in the final game. This is a fucking fact. Modus operendi? Get the fuck out.
 

Sosokrates

Gold Member
lol PlayStation has been doing this forever?? Which demo did they show was not in the final game? Ratchet state of play? Demon souls state of play? The last of us e3 demo? Ghost of tsushima e3 demo? Spider-Man e3 demo? Days gone e3 demo? Gow e3 demo? Detroit? Horizon e3 20-6 demo. Uncharted 4 e3 and Psx demos? The last guardian? Kz sf ps reveal demo? They were all in the final game. Only the horizon e3 2015 demo was not in the final game but it was basically a trex fight which was in the final game.

This is literally the first time since e3 2005 that a Sony studio has created cutscenes with an entire gameplay level that was not in the final game. This is a fucking fact. Modus operendi? Get the fuck out.
Some vertical slices make it into the final game, some dont.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Some vertical slices make it into the final game, some dont.
… and this is a cause of “concern” here because??

Two recent strong PS exclusive threads, two or more concern threads making mountains out of molehills it turns out.
Then again it would be fine, I am not actually suggesting this should stop as weird as it sounds, I’d rather have the same people people avoid demanding Xbox news threads be safe spaces where at the first hint of not glorious praise you get a circling of the wagons and a shoot non believer at first sight attitude.
 
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Dr Bass

Member
You will defend anything horizon related so discussing it with you is pointless.

I will just leave this video here and let people judge for themselves.


And this issue is not just about horizon, other companies do it too, but sony are definitely one of the ones who continue to show early footage not representive of final gameplay.
Holy crap you’re an idiot. I’m getting close to the end of the game and you don’t even know my opinion of it. It has changed since early impressions and I’ve hardly even talked about it on this board, so where do you get “you’ll defend anything Horizon”? You’re literally making things up and acting like a complete buffoon over this.

I’ve seen that video. The stuff in the game is nearly exact but who cares about the “scenario” with Erend not being there? It was made as a demo. There is zero dishonest about the initial demo. The whining over this (and among some people who haven never even touched it) is psychotic.
 
lol PlayStation has been doing this forever?? Which demo did they show was not in the final game? Ratchet state of play? Demon souls state of play? The last of us e3 demo? Ghost of tsushima e3 demo? Spider-Man e3 demo? Days gone e3 demo? Gow e3 demo? Detroit? Horizon e3 20-6 demo. Uncharted 4 e3 and Psx demos? The last guardian? Kz sf ps reveal demo? They were all in the final game. Only the horizon e3 2015 demo was not in the final game but it was basically a trex fight which was in the final game.

This is literally the first time since e3 2005 that a Sony studio has created cutscenes with an entire gameplay level that was not in the final game. This is a fucking fact. Modus operendi? Get the fuck out.
The fact that the gameplay mission didn't make the cut in the retail version doesn't change anything in the nature of the presentation as a vertical slice of the game.
 

Dick Jones

Gold Member
You know that you can play more than 30 hours before even encountering the first boss right ? Most people only play 10 to 15 hours a week, this stat is not indicative of anything.
I'm sure there is a correlation of people who haven't beaten the first boss in ER and those spending hours stirring shit about Horizon on GAF. Maybe they need to cut down on the concern trolling and use that time to practise.
 

Chukhopops

Member
I'm sure there is a correlation of people who haven't beaten the first boss in ER and those spending hours stirring shit about Horizon on GAF. Maybe they need to cut down on the concern trolling and use that time to practise.
Bought ER at launch and killed Godrick yesterday, this fucker is hard especially since you have limited access to upgrades at this point. He’s far from being the first boss either.

Took me 19 hours to reach Liurna and 26 hours to finish HFW, can’t compare the two…
 

Sosokrates

Gold Member
… and this is a cause of “concern” here because??

Two recent strong PS exclusive threads, two or more concern threads making mountains out of molehills it turns out.
Then again it would be fine, I am not actually suggesting this should stop as weird as it sounds, I’d rather have the same people people avoid demanding Xbox news threads be safe spaces where at the first hint of not glorious praise you get a circling of the wagons and a shoot non believer at first sight attitude.
The only thing which is unpreffered is calling these early showings "gameplay"

I have no issue with vertical slices, but call them that or "early in engine work"
 

MasterCornholio

Gold Member
You will defend anything horizon related so discussing it with you is pointless.

I will just leave this video here and let people judge for themselves.


And this issue is not just about horizon, other companies do it too, but sony are definitely one of the ones who continue to show early footage not representive of final gameplay.

Ok so you're saying the game received a massive downgrade. I didn't really read that from any of the tech sites to be honest.
 

Sosokrates

Gold Member
Holy crap you’re an idiot. I’m getting close to the end of the game and you don’t even know my opinion of it. It has changed since early impressions and I’ve hardly even talked about it on this board, so where do you get “you’ll defend anything Horizon”? You’re literally making things up and acting like a complete buffoon over this.

I’ve seen that video. The stuff in the game is nearly exact but who cares about the “scenario” with Erend not being there? It was made as a demo. There is zero dishonest about the initial demo. The whining over this (and among some people who haven never even touched it) is psychotic.

It aint nearly exact though.

You say its a demo, ok great, sony should call it that then and not gameplay. It aint gameplay. If you're gonna claim "gameplay" it should be in the actual game and look like the final product.
 
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Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
The only thing which is unpreffered is calling these early showings "gameplay"

I have no issue with vertical slices, but call them that or "early in engine work"
It seems a bit manufactured concern. It was gameplay unless you want to call it bullshots or something. It was gameplay and the game changed, games in Development do, so? Is there more to this we are dancing around?
 
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MasterCornholio

Gold Member
It seems a bit manufactured concern. It was gameplay unless you want to call it bullshots or something. It was gameplay and the game changed, games in Development do, so? Is there more to this we are dancing around?

Plus if I'm not wrong that demo was stated that it was running off an actual PS5. I didn't see any indication that it was faked or anything and the final game proves that IMO.
 

Sosokrates

Gold Member
It seems a bit manufactured concern. It was gameplay unless you want to call it bullshots or something. It was gameplay and the game changed, games in Development do, so? Is there more to this we are dancing around?

Looks like you have "manufactured concern" about my opinion.

And lol at your attempt to redefine "gameplay"

These companies arent stupid, they know exactly what they are doing, they know first impressions make a big impact and they are willing to be dishonest in order to get a more positive first impression.
 
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Sosokrates

Gold Member
Plus if I'm not wrong that demo was stated that it was running off an actual PS5. I didn't see any indication that it was faked or anything and the final game proves that IMO.
Its titled "gameplay reveal"

And he introduces it as "14 minutes of gameplay captured on PS5"

 

Topher

Gold Member
Sanford And Son Smh GIF
 

yurinka

Member
Games change and evolve a lot during development. Many parts end being cut, or are made for the vertical slice and then aren't included or are heavily modified in the final game.

Maybe that portion of the map, or cutscenes may not end in the final game, but character assets, enemy assets, gameplay, features, AI, animations, props for the background etc etc pretty sure all (or almost all) end in the final game with pretty likely some tweaks and changes.

It's called a "vertical slice" and has been done to death by almost any developer that had to put out something to show to an international audience.
A vertical slice is made for internal purposes: before starting to develop the whole stuff of the game, devs make a very small playable portion of the game with all the elements that they think will end having the game and using the tech they build for the game.

It's like a good looking, more complete prototype to see in a playable game if many things designed work together, if the artstyle and engine works well, if the gameplay feels good, if the gameplay mechanics work as intended, etc. They make a small slice of the game that features basically everything that would be in a portion of the game and they make it look as they think will look.

It helps to identify many areas to improve or things to change, stuff that on paper sounded good but when playing it didn't work, or that a thing alone was good but when combined with something else doesn't work. It's also used as reference for the other devs who will develop the rest of the game. And then across the development many issues are spotted and the game keeps changing and many things are tweaked, fixed or completely remade or removed because didn't work when combined with something else or when running on X specific hardware.

The marketing folks frequently use a vertical slice to announce a game or for an early trailer because typically it's the first "showable" stuff that you could show to someone who isn't working in the game, and because after the vertical slice they start to develop and remake stuff so the game is constantly on a WIP state with many things that aren't working, unoptimized, buggy, etc. until almost the end of the project and would require a lot of work to make a specific portion of the game showable for a demo.

So they take some parts of the vertical slice for trailers. Sometimes, many stuff thas was in the vertical slice doesn't end in the final game, needs to be toned down or removed to fit in memory for some specific version, or to run at a proper performance. This is why some games get 'downgraded', it isn't something they make to mislead players.
 
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ANDS

Thought gaf was racist. Now knows better, honorary gaffer 2022
No problem since the essence of the game still the same... different from tlou2 demo/trailers

. . .what? The last game preview was literally a mission from the game. As for the trailers it's pretty clear WHY things were cut the way they were.
You know that you can play more than 30 hours before even encountering the first boss right ? Most people only play 10 to 15 hours a week, this stat is not indicative of anything.

You've said this on other threads. While I don't doubt there are people who will take their time, that this represents a large swath of the playerbase isn't founded in anything, particularly when the game funnels you to Stormveil.
 
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