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"Video games need fewer 'sexy' women and more you can actually fancy"

Yup.

Newsflash to GAF, emotionally-mature adult women don't care which video games you want to bang, believe it or not.

this is your line in the sand on emotional maturity, eh?

Sounds like good ol' online idealism and simplification to me. I don't doubt he was saying that just to avoid confrontation but that doesn't automatically mean the writer is some infantile, petty woman or that he's some emasculated twerp. There's probably a lot more to their relationship than one little dumb quirk.
 
Look, I get that a good number of people are joking, but those jokes are perpetuating a pretty silly stereotype of women. That they're jealous, and out to try and trap you and just want an argument out of this sort of stuff. Everyone making this joke is making sweeping judgements about the relationship of the writer of the article and her boyfriend, too. It's a sexist joke, in my opinion.

For what it's worth, my fiancé saw the thread and thought everyone was kind of crazy, too with that stereotype. The only reason she could see to tell a white lie like that is if it was like a close friend that even remotely would be possible as a threat. Even then, she's more a fan of actually being able to discuss these things. Asking about video game characters, though? Really?



I realize it happens. I've seen a case in a friend. Never about video game characters, though.. I don't know anyone that would be that bad at all. Never met them and neither have any of my friends. But yeah, some jealousy pops up with people you do actually know. That happens. Still, I think it's kind of bad to be perpetuating this stereotype that women are all into entrapment and will throw you a question just to get angry at you...


I think you're just overreacting to be honest. All videogames need better writing in general, she even mentioned Link in the article just because she find him attractive... Not exactly because of his personality...
 
this is your line in the sand on emotional maturity, eh?

Sounds like good ol' online idealism and simplification to me. I don't doubt he was saying that just to avoid confrontation but that doesn't automatically mean the writer is some infantile, petty woman or that he's some emasculated twerp. There's probably a lot more to their relationship than one little dumb quirk.

What are you even talking about? I'm commenting on a bunch of our posters' rather strange reaction. I said nothing about the author or her boyfriend.

She's writing an article about how she wishes there were more girls in games for her guy to crush on, obviously I doubt she's some infantile or petty woman.
 
What are you even talking about? I'm commenting on a bunch of our posters' rather strange reaction. I said nothing about the author or her boyfriend.

She's writing an article about how she wishes there were more girls in games for her guy to crush on, obviously I doubt she's some infantile or petty woman.

Wait a moment. When you word it like that, he may have missed out on some fantastic (or maybe just decent) sex roleplay. That paints the entire article completely differently.
 

skelekey

Member
There are lots of females that I have a crush on in games. She probably didn't ask the right guys. Off the top of my head:

Chun li
Tina (DOA)
Honoka (DOA)
Ai Ebihara (Persona 4)
Fran (Final Fantasy XII)
Triss Merigold
Yennefer
Selphie Tilmitt (Final Fantasy VIII)
Quistis Trepe (Final Fantasy VIII)
Lucretia (KuF)
 

Yarbskoo

Member
I'm fine with wanting more waifus in games, but I'm also fine with sexy waifus.

Wait a moment. When you word it like that, he may have missed out on some fantastic (or maybe just decent) sex roleplay. That paints the entire article completely differently.

The best kind of crossover fanservice.
 

LaserHawk

Member
After having some time to think about this, I really believe it's not that hard to come up with a list of great women in video games that aren't purely eye candy. I could just start rattling off examples, though I'll admit not all of them are playable characters. If asked the same question as the guy in the article, I'd have a dozen examples in no time flat. I think sometimes we're just so focused on Bayonetta, Peach, and Lara Croft that we start pretending that's mostly what the video game industry is. But it's far from true.
 

redcrayon

Member
Yup.

Newsflash to GAF, emotionally-mature adult women don't care which video games you want to bang, believe it or not.


What are you even talking about? I'm commenting on a bunch of our posters' rather strange reaction. I said nothing about the author or her boyfriend.

She's writing an article about how she wishes there were more girls in games for her guy to crush on, obviously I doubt she's some infantile or petty woman.
Even 'emotionally mature' people sometimes require you to respond with empathy, tact, nuance and in context. Blind, brutal honesty is an ideal that works fine until someone has had a bastard of a day and wants reassurance rather than a list of your favourite pixelated girls. I'd probably give a different answer if my other half and I were relaxing, having a pint and joking around than if she had stormed in and looked exhausted and bothered about something, for example.

Everyone has something that might annoy them if they've had a rough day but they'll let it go the next (people not indicating when driving is mine), not everyone acts like a robot with an even temperment for decades at a time.

You might not agree, but it's hardly 'rather strange'.
 
It's depressing how many people are saying "He's definitely just dodging the question, exactly like I would."

I was under the impression most folks were just making a comment that that's how they read the guy's response. "Exactly like I would" is just you assuming we're all assholes to our partners, rather than just assholes to this author's boyfriend

Where has all the laughter gone
 

Meowster

Member
Maybe but as a gay young man, I've never understood this whole waifu/attraction thing. I had small little crushes on Zell and Sora from Final Fantasy VIII and Kingdom Hearts when I was really little but that's about the extent of it. The writing and perpetual stereotypes for female characters are far worse but I'd argue that the men are just as bad: dull and unattractive.

Despite falling into a lot of tropes, I do think the Final Fantasy series has a good deal of capable and well-written female characters.
 

Wulfram

Member
I don't feel female characters are on average more lacking in personality than male characters. Except perhaps that they're less likely to be protagonists, but protagonists tend to be pretty bland too.

Though that may just be the games I play
 

Shig

Strap on your hooker ...
Well that's one hell of a beauty shaming article. I love this trend of women telling men what we should find attractive and "fancy". Sure I get the sexualized armor argument, but think to tell me what it is I need to see to be attracted to somebody. It's insulting.
What article did you read? It's not lamenting the shiny wrapper of the 'hot videogame babe', it's saying "wouldn't that wrapper be better if there was some great candy inside?" Advocating for things people might find endearing and attractive on more levels than the surface is advocating for more beauty, not less.

The only way you could possibly object with that idea is if you prefer your girls to be pliant, emotionally vacant trophies.
 
After having some time to think about this, I really believe it's not that hard to come up with a list of great women in video games that aren't purely eye candy. I could just start rattling off examples, though I'll admit not all of them are playable characters. If asked the same question as the guy in the article, I'd have a dozen examples in no time flat. I think sometimes we're just so focused on Bayonetta, Peach, and Lara Croft that we start pretending that's mostly what the video game industry is. But it's far from true.

Thing is, using those three as an example, Peach is really the least pandering but also the one with the weakest characterization, if we're talking how they are generally communicated in-game. Obviously, that's not an entirely fair comparison as the audiences are -technically- intended to be different for these 3 characters, but still.

In any event, video games, and I guess any form of roleplay, create an intimate connection between the player and the character. It's easy for people to project their own emotions into the avatar on screen, regardless of that character's physical characteristics, or even personality. Sometimes that's because of good writing, sometimes - oddly enough - because of bad, and sometimes because of no writing at all.

There's no doubt there's an enormous amount of pandering in video games, but I don't completely agree that the correlation in pandering character design and weak characterizations is as strong as it seems at first glance. Certainly it may be a shame to have an interesting character be conspicuously designed for titillation first and foremost, but it doesn't necessarily preclude the creation of a good character, and it may be an explicit strength depending on context.

So yeah, I think giving it even 5 minutes of thought you could come up with dozens of memorable female characters, even if they are only memorable because of your personal experience of the game they are a part of.

Having said all this, I do agree with the author in general insofar as she is making a call for a larger variety in the types of women represented in games.
 

Shouta

Member
After having some time to think about this, I really believe it's not that hard to come up with a list of great women in video games that aren't purely eye candy. I could just start rattling off examples, though I'll admit not all of them are playable characters. If asked the same question as the guy in the article, I'd have a dozen examples in no time flat. I think sometimes we're just so focused on Bayonetta, Peach, and Lara Croft that we start pretending that's mostly what the video game industry is. But it's far from true.

It's not hard at all because there are many good examples of characters that aren't just sexy. Anyone with with experience in a wide variety of games from different places can see this. It's why I always find these articles somewhat amusing.
 

stuminus3

Member
Just asked my wife what videogame men she had a crush on and she looked at me like I was completely nuts then went back to playing Zoo Tycoon. WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?!
 

synce

Member
Disagree with everything in OP. I love my sexy game girls and I'm thankful at least Japan hasn't kowtowed to the SJWs. As I'm sure it's been pointed out, there's just as many dumb meatheads and playboys in videogames as there are sexy women. People need to lighten the fuck up and realize that videogames are FANTASY.
 
Even 'emotionally mature' people sometimes require you to respond with empathy, tact, nuance and in context. Blind, brutal honesty is an ideal that works fine until someone has had a bastard of a day and wants reassurance rather than a list of your favourite pixelated girls. I'd probably give a different answer if my other half and I were relaxing and having a pint than if she stormed in and looked exhausted and worried about something, for example.

Everyone has something that might annoy them on one day but they'll let it go the next (people not indicating when driving is mine).

You might not agree, but it's hardly 'rather strange'.

Obviously! I'm not saying you should be saying awful things like "Man babe, why isn't your ass as good as Miranda's from Mass Effect" but the context as the article presents it is that she initiated the conversation by sharing all of her video game crushes with him first and then was curious as to who his was.

If someone's perspective of women is that she was trying to "trap" him and he responded with the only thing he could say to avoid a meltdown, which is what some posters here seem to have suggested, then they have some issues to sort out.
 

RK128

Member
That is a good question OP, as while women in games for a long time have been just 'prizes' or 'rewards' for the player, that isn't always the case at all.

For me, the best female characters in gaming would be the following:
-Samus from Metroid
Other M doesn't exist in my mind
: A character that doesn't say much but her actions speak volumes; saves the galaxy god knows how many times, single handledly eradicated the Metroids, and goes head first into dangerous locations without looking back. She is one of the strongest females in gaming and while it is a bit of a shame she is becoming more of a 'object' in recent times, her past ventures on the NES, SNES, GB, GBA, GC and Wii Prime tittles all present her as a strong powerful character :').
-Shantae: Her design might say otherwise but she is a great character. Fill of charm and personality, goes on tons of adventures and is very open with people (even friendly with villains in her world). I just love how much fun she has on her ventures; throughout Pirates Curse for example, she is so happy just going on a journey with Risky, completely forgetting how she caused the issues in the first place. Great character I think :).
-Wind Waker Zelda and Minda from Twilight Princes: I lump both of these together due to how both do a lot to make them great characters. Both of them are characters; the former is a pirate traveling across the seas while the latter is a imp from another 'world' actively treating Link like crap throughout the first third of Twilight Princess. What I loved about these characters is that they don't fall into tropes from other games in the series; Tetra fights alongside Link during the end of Wind Waker and helps Link start his adventure while Minda grows as a character (she gets nicer to Link and Link grows to care for her; the scene after the water temple hits that home). I liked going on the journey with these characters and they stand as some of the strongest females in the Zelda series to me :).

I could list more, but these characters really hit home for me as I loved going on adventures with them :).
 

redcrayon

Member
Obviously! I'm not saying you should be saying awful things like "Man babe, why isn't your ass as good as Miranda's from Mass Effect" but the context as the article presents it is that she initiated the conversation by sharing all of her video game crushes with him first and then was curious as to who his was.

If someone's perspective of women is that she was trying to "trap" him and he responded with the only thing he could say to avoid a meltdown, which is what some posters here seem to have suggested, then they have some issues to sort out.
Ah, I see, you're quite right. Hoist by my own petard on 'context'. ;-)

sorry for the lecture dude, fair enough. :)
 
Usually redhead and/or glasses is top quality waifu material.

ijkXfk3.png


Other qualities you should look for are. Nerdy, motherly, compassionate, sophisticated, bookish. All qualities you should look for in a good waifu. I can recognize mai waifu at first glance the moment I see her for the first time. Can you say the same?
 

truly101

I got grudge sucked!
What if this thread is a trap, to see who really has a crush on a video game girl?

Even if I allowed myself to consider the premise seriously, I like my female characters with looks and charisma. Honestly, the male characters are the same way to me. Does he look "cool" how does he present himself? Do I enjoy playing him as a character? When I control them, how well do they link me to the world they live in? Most of the female characters I like fit those criteria to a degree. They can be over the top like Bloodrayne, or something far more subdued like Max Caufield. I enjoyed playing Amanda Ripley a lot. They didn't show a ton of depth to her character but given the circumstances, it wasn't necessary. We went through some shit together.
 

WinFonda

Member
lol, maybe her boyfriend was just being coy and didn't want to get his balls busted by admitting a video game crush...

"really?! her?? but she's nothing like me! i can't believe you said that, you may as well date a box of cardboard!"
 

gafneo

Banned
The industry is full of idiots. They think it sells to have sexy looking women. They don't need to be kicking ass, or telling one liners. A female should be portrayed as classy, smart, and full of heart and emotional strength. Take Meryl for instance. She is very human and charming. There's nothing annoying about her.

People say Uncharted does a good job. I don't really think so, Women are sarcastically snarky in those games. That game is about dorky cheesy David Hasselhoff dudes and corny women from the First Wive's Club
 

dh4niel

Member
It's a bit of an odd question really. A lot of people can't differentiate between liking someone and liking them enough to bang them.
 
The industry is full of idiots. They think it sells to have sexy looking women. They don't need to be kicking ass, or telling one liners. A female should be portrayed as classy, smart, and full of heart and emotional strength. Take Meryl for instance. She is very human and charming. There's nothing annoying about her.

People say Uncharted does a good job. I don't really think so, Women are sarcastically snarky in those games. That game is about dorky cheesy David Hasselhoff dudes and corny women from the First Wive's Club

Now your just being cynical.
 

dralla

Member
The industry is full of idiots. They think it sells to have sexy looking women. They don't need to be kicking ass, or telling one liners. A female should be portrayed as classy, smart, and full of heart and emotional strength. Take Meryl for instance. She is very human and charming. There's nothing annoying about her.

People say Uncharted does a good job. I don't really think so, Women are sarcastically snarky in those games. That game is about dorky cheesy David Hasselhoff dudes and corny women from the First Wive's Club

Just curious why you think women "should" be portrayed that way? And are you a male or female?
 
To the people thinking the guy in OP dodged a loaded question... let me ask you, are there any female characters you'd fancy being in a relationship with? I don't mean a one night stand, I mean someone you could spend a sizable portion of your time with and think you'd enjoy their company... I can't think of too many personally.

Well, here, let me go ahead and ask you a precursor to that question.

Is there enough appearances and dialogue that a female character has so that I can determine if I would "fancy" being in a relationship with?

Not much. If at all. Why? Because video games are incredibly shallow experiences of characters or people (if you think of them as that). 99% of the games out there are 2-12 hour experiences in which you MIGHT have 20 minutes of dialogue with 1 particular character, and its not like you have control of what kind of questions or dialogue you can have with them because thats not the point to a video game, folks. A game has a win condition that you're driving towards, and dialogue and character development is very much a really shallow afterthought on the whole experience itself.

But since you asked, I'm going to answer anyway just to prove a point and how ridiculous this whole thought experiment is.

I'm going to go ahead and briefly explain what I liked or disliked about all P3 and P4 female characters and if I would date them or not. Keep in mind that not everyone likes playing a 50+ hour RPG. A disclaimer here, I've maxed their social links. So, yes, I've exhausted their dialogues with the main character.

P3:

Yukari: Kind of stuck up bitch, and confrontational in pretty much the worst of all ways with the rest of characters. She is like that person you know that goes to your party and bums everyone out when they just want to have a few laughs and have a good time. No, I wouldn't "fancy" her.

Mitsuru: Leader, Student body president, Responsible, Strong convictions, Smart. Very much out of touch with people below her, but thru dialogue you learn about her flaws and she ends up becoming a more down to earth person when you max her social link. Absolutely would "fancy" her.

Fuuka: Severely lacking in the aspect of courage and confidence. Its just not attractive to anyone unless you like "fixing" people when you date them. Wouldn't "fancy" her.

Aigis: Robot. Touched her circuit. Wouldn't "fancy" her.

P4:

Chie: I know I'm going to get flack from the Chie lovers, but I don't find her attractive in any way. The only thing I got from here was that she loves meat and kung fu movies. Gets too embarrassed, and I don't find that attractive. Shitty cook. Wouldn't.

Yukiko: Kind of a dork with her laughing and jokes. Too timid for my tastes. Shitty cook. Wouldn't.

Rise: Idol. Not actually an airhead. Bold personality. Shitty cook. Not sure if I would.

Naoto: Smart. Has an identity crisis. Has a sweet side to her. Probably a shitty cook, too. Not sure if I would.

Marie: Not going to spoil her story. She is the Bamboo forest. Tsundere and naive, but has some really cute moments. Would.

So, in conclusion, if you look closely at what I said I would or wouldn't "fancy". You'll notice that somehow I went for the characters that had more sex appeal. And I didn't to the ones that are butterfaces by comparison. I just wanted to point out that I have the upmost respect for Shigenori Soejima's work in the Persona series. All the characters based on their physical appearances have their charms in their own ways, and to each their own.
 

Sagely

Member
Even if I allowed myself to consider the premise seriously, I like my female characters with looks and charisma. Honestly, the male characters are the same way to me. Does he look "cool" how does he present himself? Do I enjoy playing him as a character? When I control them, how well do they link me to the world they live in? Most of the female characters I like fit those criteria to a degree. They can be over the top like Bloodrayne, or something far more subdued like Max Caufield. I enjoyed playing Amanda Ripley a lot. They didn't show a ton of depth to her character but given the circumstances, it wasn't necessary. We went through some shit together.

I'm with you on this, and that's actually how I would interpret a crush. It's more about thinking, "Wow they're so cool!" and enjoying their charisma than simple physical attraction, although a crush by no means excludes that. Hence you get straight folks crushing on characters or people of the same gender. It's about general admiration and coolness :]
 

Ralemont

not me
The industry is full of idiots. They think it sells to have sexy looking women. They don't need to be kicking ass, or telling one liners. A female should be portrayed as classy, smart, and full of heart and emotional strength. Take Meryl for instance. She is very human and charming. There's nothing annoying about her.

People say Uncharted does a good job. I don't really think so, Women are sarcastically snarky in those games.

Being sarcastic and snarky doesn't disqualify you from having an interesting or attractive personality. Even if it did, then everyone in Uncharted is disqualified, and identifying the problem as female-centric in nature is mistaken.

Bad/shallow characterization is gender-agnostic. Sexualization isn't, and the two issues are not the same.
 

HarryKS

Member
Some people rag on about the cavernous concept of sexual objectification but honestly, there is nothing wrong with it. I trust that human beings have some sort of detachment that allows them to separate concepts from real life.

Sometimes, you do feel like you're being accused of actually being a normal, sexual being. Which is very, very odd.
 
So they play Monster Hunter but don't have any clue there are tons of female video game characters with personalities. Seems legit.
 

Gbraga

Member
Thane is my husbando too <3

EDIT: I was so disappointed with how unimportant he was in Mass Effect 3 :/

About the article itself, I get where she's coming from, but the main thing is probably "why so many games with husbandos don't have waifus as well?", to be honest. If you get into Persona or stuff like that, there are definitely plenty of female characters people adore, and they look like this in-game:

YAmDpTZ.jpg




This article sounds like:

JhhBu.gif

9mykX.gif
zW4cy.gif

kaDQq.gif


Although she has a point, but one thing does not exclude the other.

lmao

This is an interesting point. I'm attracted to men and women in real life, and when it comes to game characters I tend to zone out designs that appear very often for both genders. In that sense a character who has a distinctive personality with tons of swagger and/or is attractive in a different or subtle way is immediately noticeable. Characters that are default sexy (in my opinion, this includes stuff like bikini armours and incredibly muscled dudes) tend not to stand out so much.

My personal "good" examples would be Samantha Traynor and Garrus in Mass Effect, Leon and Claire in Resident Evil, Dante in DmC, Cullen in DA: Inquisition, Bayonetta and Geralt. That's just off the top of my head.

DmC Dante
6k3FUV6.png
 
Also, there's a bunch of people in this thread who claimed they wouldn't immediately dodge the question if their significant other asked them if they had a crush on a videogame character. Frankly, I think every last one of you is lying.
Of course I wouldn't dodge it. Having a crush on a game character is really alien to me. I can relate to well written characters, find them interesting but a crush or attraction is just something I can't really imagine TBH. So it's a very easy conversation.
 

kuroshiki

Member
Honestly I just think her guy dodged a loaded question and told her what she wanted to hear. I would say the exact same thing if I was put in that situation when in reality I loved looking at the sorceress from dragons crown.

I bought this game just for that.

High FIve.
 

Goodstyle

Member
Well, here, let me go ahead and ask you a precursor to that question.

Is there enough appearances and dialogue that a female character has so that I can determine if I would "fancy" being in a relationship with?

Not much. If at all. Why? Because video games are incredibly shallow experiences of characters or people (if you think of them as that). 99% of the games out there are 2-12 hour experiences in which you MIGHT have 20 minutes of dialogue with 1 particular character, and its not like you have control of what kind of questions or dialogue you can have with them because thats not the point to a video game, folks. A game has a win condition that you're driving towards, and dialogue and character development is very much a really shallow afterthought on the whole experience itself.

But since you asked, I'm going to answer anyway just to prove a point and how ridiculous this whole thought experiment is.

I'm going to go ahead and briefly explain what I liked or disliked about all P3 and P4 female characters and if I would date them or not. Keep in mind that not everyone likes playing a 50+ hour RPG. A disclaimer here, I've maxed their social links. So, yes, I've exhausted their dialogues with the main character.

P3:

Yukari: Kind of stuck up bitch, and confrontational in pretty much the worst of all ways with the rest of characters. She is like that person you know that goes to your party and bums everyone out when they just want to have a few laughs and have a good time. No, I wouldn't "fancy" her.

Mitsuru: Leader, Student body president, Responsible, Strong convictions, Smart. Very much out of touch with people below her, but thru dialogue you learn about her flaws and she ends up becoming a more down to earth person when you max her social link. Absolutely would "fancy" her.

Fuuka: Severely lacking in the aspect of courage and confidence. Its just not attractive to anyone unless you like "fixing" people when you date them. Wouldn't "fancy" her.

Aigis: Robot. Touched her circuit. Wouldn't "fancy" her.

P4:

Chie: I know I'm going to get flack from the Chie lovers, but I don't find her attractive in any way. The only thing I got from here was that she loves meat and kung fu movies. Gets too embarrassed, and I don't find that attractive. Shitty cook. Wouldn't.

Yukiko: Kind of a dork with her laughing and jokes. Too timid for my tastes. Shitty cook. Wouldn't.

Rise: Idol. Not actually an airhead. Bold personality. Shitty cook. Not sure if I would.

Naoto: Smart. Has an identity crisis. Has a sweet side to her. Probably a shitty cook, too. Not sure if I would.

Marie: Not going to spoil her story. She is the Bamboo forest. Tsundere and naive, but has some really cute moments. Would.

So, in conclusion, if you look closely at what I said I would or wouldn't "fancy". You'll notice that somehow I went for the characters that had more sex appeal. And I didn't to the ones that are butterfaces by comparison. I just wanted to point out that I have the upmost respect for Shigenori Soejima's work in the Persona series. All the characters based on their physical appearances have their charms in their own ways, and to each their own.

Wow.

You actually went over every major Persona girl and categorized them on whether you would or wouldn't "fancy" them.

This post is really pathetic, but also kind of amazing. I'm in complete awe.
 

Yarbskoo

Member
Undeterred, I fired a list of ostensibly desirable women game characters at him &#8211; and he rolled his eyes at every one of them. I kept telling him, it doesn&#8217;t have to be true love, you don&#8217;t need to be looking for a longterm meaningful relationship with these women &#8211; after all, my reason for liking the Hyrule Warriors version of Link is that he has pretty hair and eyes.

But no. Nothing.

I'm starting to think this guy doesn't even play video games.

But when it comes to games, after a long think, he managed to come up with Tali from the Mass Effect series: an alien whose face you never see, with three fingers on each hand and legs that bend backwards.

Nevermind, 10/10 taste.

Wow.

You actually went over every major Persona girl and split them on whether you would or wouldn't "fancy."

This post is really pathetic, but also kind of amazing. I'm in complete awe.

NuclearSpy: Cool guy that isn't afraid to list his waifus. Would fancy.
 
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