Support NeoGAF

[SaitoH]

But its not even that, with that dodge button you can perform some sick movements that would confuse your opponent on both facing and rear facing your opponents. Also, you can quickly shift/side-step round your opponents which is something you cannot do in vf4. there more you can do but i don't have enough time to go in depth right now.

In fact, Sega used the wrong word, they didn't create a dodge button in VF3, they created a 'shift' button.

Yeah, there we lots of nuances to the dodge button, like being able to Korean Step, but I still prefer the 3 button setup. Maybe it's because I never got really good with dodging, other that being able to slip-dodge high rising attacks.

=P

 

[Trojan X]

I'd tell you all right now; if Sega took DOA1 counter system and improved it to make counter-the-counter-the-counter possibily with every frame being different for each character with respect to their fighting styles then I will guarantee that we'll have the first fighting game that will show off a proper KUNG FU flick!

Tecmo so badly lost their way when they started this.

 

[Trojan X]

Yeah, there we lots of nuances to the dodge button, like being able to Korean Step, but I still prefer the 3 button setup. Maybe it's because I never got really good with dodging, other that being able to slip-dodge high rising attacks.

=P

Maybe that's the reason why. Believe me, I've been abused the dodging in VF4 and I can't help but to think that VF3 dodging is just as good but different. To be complete honest, VF3 was more 3D than VF4 when you play it at a high skill level. If anyone requires me to explain what I mean by that then let me know.

 

[CurseoftheGods]

Maybe that's the reason why. Believe me, I've been abused the dodging in VF4 and I can't help but to think that VF3 dodging is just as good but different. To be complete honest, VF3 was more 3D than VF4 when you play it at a high skill level. If anyone requires me to explain what I mean by that then let me know.

I agree that and the levels gave the game an interactive, immersive feel (without hindering the deep gameplay). I wish that VF5 is a true sequel to VF3 just like VF4 was for VF2.

Anyone else like VF3's art style? I always preferred it to VF4's "extreme" one.

 

[Trojan X]

Even after playing Final Tuned, I have to admit VF3 graphics are STILL incredible.

Also I like to point out that Kage in VF3 is the best Kage there is. I really do not like what they did to him in VF4, the way he moves, look, he just don't do it for me in terms of player selection unlike the previous versions but in VF3 he is so damn cool! Heck, his Izuna Drop looks piss boring in VF4 but still looks and feels awesome in VF3, damn man I prefer doing that move than Hayabusa's spinning drop from the DOA series; why is that?

 

[CurseoftheGods]

Even after playing Final Tuned, I have to admit VF3 graphics are STILL incredible.

Also I like to point out that Kage in VF3 is the best Kage there is. I really do not like what they did to him in VF4, the way he moves, look, he just don't do it for me in terms of player selection unlike the previous versions but in VF3 he is so damn cool! Heck, his Izuna Drop looks piss boring in VF4 but still looks and feels awesome in VF3, damn man I prefer doing that move than Hayabusa's spinning drop from the DOA series; why is that?

Agreed.

Kage looks so awesome in this outfit.

 

[Sho Nuff]

Did you know? There is a Saturn prototype of VF3.

About a year ago I talked to a guy who worked at SoJ from Genesis through Saturn and did indeed see it. It was never shown outside the company or to press, however. It was described as "pretty good." The only resources made for the proto were one background, 2 characters and their full movesets. Oh yeah, low res and 30fps. So there you go.

BTW, there were some nice realtime VF models on one of the last Saturn devkits. These had no relation to the VF3 port.

 

[Shogmaster]

Did you know? There is a Saturn prototype of VF3.

About a year ago I talked to a guy who worked at SoJ from Genesis through Saturn and did indeed see it. It was never shown outside the company or to press, however. It was described as "pretty good." The only resources made for the proto were one background, 2 characters and their full movesets. Oh yeah, low res and 30fps. So there you go.

Do you know if it indeed used the fabled "upgrade cartridge"?

 

[Sho Nuff]

Do you know if it indeed used the fabled "upgrade cartridge"?

Said cartridge was bollocks. This was running on a stock Saturn.

 

[Instigator]

Even after playing Final Tuned, I have to admit VF3 graphics are STILL incredible.

Also I like to point out that Kage in VF3 is the best Kage there is. I really do not like what they did to him in VF4, the way he moves, look, he just don't do it for me in terms of player selection unlike the previous versions but in VF3 he is so damn cool! Heck, his Izuna Drop looks piss boring in VF4 but still looks and feels awesome in VF3, damn man I prefer doing that move than Hayabusa's spinning drop from the DOA series; why is that?

Looks cool, but still the same old Kage. Cheap character.

 

[Tain]

I would absolutely kill to see that prototype.

I don't know why I'm so interested in that sort of thing. Saturn Shenmue footage was the greatest extra in any game, ever.

 

[Instigator]

I would absolutely kill to see that prototype.

I don't know why I'm so interested in that sort of thing. Saturn Shenmue footage was the greatest extra in any game, ever.

Having some parts playable would have been even better.

 

[shantyman]

This was, overall, probably my favorite game of all time, certainly my favorite fighting game.

I agree, uneven surfaces and Taka should NOT have been removed in VF4.

 

[mrmyth]

Even after playing Final Tuned, I have to admit VF3 graphics are STILL incredible.

Also I like to point out that Kage in VF3 is the best Kage there is. I really do not like what they did to him in VF4, the way he moves, look, he just don't do it for me in terms of player selection unlike the previous versions but in VF3 he is so damn cool! Heck, his Izuna Drop looks piss boring in VF4 but still looks and feels awesome in VF3, damn man I prefer doing that move than Hayabusa's spinning drop from the DOA series; why is that?

'Cause deep down, when you use Kage, you know you're kicking somebody's ass with Disco Sulu.

That, and the just perfect "Yeeeeeeeeee!" he busts out when you complete the TFT canned throw is so badass.

 

[lachesis]

this thread is making me wanting to play VF3 tonight... perhaps I would dig out my od saturn and VF collection to re-visit them all.

lachesis

 

[jarrod]

Not exactly. AM2 was way too busy with Shenmue, so they handed over the project to Genki (which was comprised of ex-AM2 staff). Genki did an okay job with the port. It was a bit rushed for the Japanese DC launch. There wasn't even a versus mode in the Japanese version!

After releasing the Japanese version of Shenmue, AM2 started refining the port Genki did for the US release of VF3:TB. The end product definitely felt more "complete", in terms of graphics and features. I would know since I won both.

More than that, the JP DC release of VF3 was on such a tight schedule that Genki suppossedly had to use AM2's Saturn port code as a base (both DC and Saturn used SH series CPUs, which can all run legacy code). If they had the time to recode from scratch (as they did with Virtua Striker 2) it probably would've been a 100% complete port.

 

[jarrod]

Said cartridge was bollocks. This was running on a stock Saturn.

The cart at least definitely existed. Core Design even confirmed it actually in an interview (their original plan was to have Tomb Raider 2 use it).

Old GF rumors pointed to AM2 developing versions of Saturn VF3 both with and without the cart. Maybe that's what happened?

 

[SiegfriedFM]

I only got to play VF3 right after SC (Dreamcast)... which was why the game was completely ruined for me. But never mind the poor graphics (3 years later, that is), the designs are horrible. Seriously, silver pants Kage and cowboy Wolf are among the worst ever made.

Only good thing that ever came out of VF3 is Aoi Umenokouji, or, eh... Aoi "Umekomichi"???!?! LOL.

 

[xexex]

apparently, there were two versions of Saturn VF3. one with the upgrade cart, and one without.

the one without the upgrade cart is said to have had graphics slightly better than Fighters Megamix and Saturn VF2. the one with the upgrade cart had significantly better 3D graphics, but at least a notch or two below that of the Genki coded Dreamcast VF3.

Ive heard that the upgrade cart used either a Lockhee Real3D chip or Series 1 PowerVR chip.

this is what I remember reading between the Beyond3D and Assemblergames boards


might want to follow these threads
http://assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1121&page=2&pp=20
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewt...0&postorder=asc&highlight=saturn+vf3&start=20
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9074&highlight=saturn+vf3
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewt...0&postorder=asc&highlight=saturn+vf3&start=20

 

[CurseoftheGods]

apparently, there were two versions of Saturn VF3. one with the upgrade cart, and one without.

the one without the upgrade cart is said to have had graphics slightly better than Fighters Megamix and Saturn VF2. the one with the upgrade cart had significantly better 3D graphics, but at least a notch or two below that of the Genki coded Dreamcast VF3.

Ive heard that the upgrade cart used either a Lockhee Real3D chip or Series 1 PowerVR chip.

this is what I remember reading between the Beyond3D and Assemblergames boards


might want to follow these threads
http://assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1121&page=2&pp=20
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewt...0&postorder=asc&highlight=saturn+vf3&start=20
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9074&highlight=saturn+vf3
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewt...0&postorder=asc&highlight=saturn+vf3&start=20

You're officially the shit. I spent an entire afternoon reading those threads. Awesome stuff.

I was just wondering, does anyone have any pics/movies of the Saturn version of Shenmue? Did it have Ryo and the rest of the Shenmue cast? I just want to know how if it was also known as Project Berkeley at the time.

 

[Instigator]

the one without the upgrade cart is said to have had graphics slightly better than Fighters Megamix and Saturn VF2.

Those were two different looking games. One was low-res and used lighting and gouraud shading. The other was high-res and didn't use any lighting whatsoever. Was that Saturn VF3 closer to first or the second game?

 

[Trojan X]

I am willing to play, capture and upload my VF3 fights if anyone is willing to host it? I'm on VF3 mode at the moment.

 

[CurseoftheGods]

I am willing to play, capture and upload my VF3 fights if anyone is willing to host it? I'm on VF3 mode at the moment.

Holy shit. Somebody please do it. I am dying for some VF3 media.

 

[Sho Nuff]

Shiznit. I should get an interview with this guy, because he debunked so much stuff about Saturn VF3 and the Saturn in general that it's silly. I'll get on it.

 

[Tiktaalik]

What a bizarre coincidence. I just bought this game for Dreamcast today. I like it.

 

[Vormund]

Sega should port this to PS2 as well. One thing that irked me about the DC conversion was the crappy modelling around the joints of characters.

Anyway back to digging the DC out of storage...

 

[Sho Nuff]

Sega should port this to PS2 as well. One thing that irked me about the DC conversion was the crappy modelling around the joints of characters.

I vaguely remember the VF3 characters being "sausage people" in the arcade version (basically a bunch of parts floating and intersecting with each other). I think they tried adding some skinning to the DC one, and it looked damn odd (Pai's screwed up arms).

 

[Vormund]

I vaguely remember the VF3 characters being "sausage people" in the arcade version (basically a bunch of parts floating and intersecting with each other). I think they tried adding some skinning to the DC one, and it looked damn odd (Pai's screwed up arms).

I don't remember VF3 arcade being like that....I know VF2 Saturn was like that. Can't really remember whether VF2 arcade was like that however.

 

[WHOAguitarninja]

I vaguely remember the VF3 characters being "sausage people" in the arcade version (basically a bunch of parts floating and intersecting with each other). I think they tried adding some skinning to the DC one, and it looked damn odd (Pai's screwed up arms).

Nah, I'm pretty sure that wasn't VF3. VF3 arcade looked noticeably better than VF3 DC.

 

[Anyanka]

The stages where great and I liked how their eyes would move and other facial expressions, but the skin was horrible. Everyone is like pure white.

 

[CurseoftheGods]

The stages where great and I liked how their eyes would move and other facial expressions, but the skin was horrible. Everyone is like pure white.

It's funny how VF4 is at the other extreme. The skin almost looks dirty.

 

[Lazy8s]

Shenmue prototype on Saturn, developed from around 1996 and made for the system without any upgrade hardware:

http://old.fileplanet.com/dl/dl.asp?/planetxbox/shenmuedojo/projectberkley/Large/Shenmue_Saturn.zip

Shenmue prototype on Dreamcast from around 1998, soon after having been moved from Saturn, demonstrating some Magic Time and Magic Weather from the engine:

http://www.fileplanet.com/dl/dl.asp?/planetxbox/shenmuedojo/oldclips/shenmuegamefanpromo.zip

Shenmue on the Dreamcast, advertisement for the final game introducing some of the story's lead characters:

http://www.fileplanet.com/dl/dl.asp?/planetxbox/shenmuedojo/oldclips/shenmue1commercial.zip

Saturn-like version of the Ryo character model, which evolved from Virtua Fighter's Akira, unlocked in the Dreamcast version through hacking:

 

[Trojan X]

Well, as I've mentioned before I am willing to play, capture and upload my VF3 fights if anyone is willing to host them. All you have to do is give me your uploading details and I'll put on some kickass fights for you. I'll show you how VF3 is played.

Heh, now that's something I do not do everyday.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Well, as I've mentioned before I am willing to play, capture and upload my VF3 fights if anyone is willing to host them. All you have to do is give me your uploading details and I'll put on some kickass fights for you. I'll show you how VF3 is played.

Heh, now that's something I do not do everyday.

You could put them up on http://www.yousendit.com .

 

[Trojan X]

You could put them up on http://www.yousendit.com .

Naw, gimme a normal site or something so everyone can easily just click on the link.

 

[xexex]

You're officially the shit. I spent an entire afternoon reading those threads. Awesome stuff.

more here

http://assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5287&page=2&pp=20

Anthaemia wrote:

I was always under the impression that the accelerator cartridge was being developed by SOA in partnership with Lockheed, and that AM2 produced Saturn versions of VF3 and Shenmue (then incorporating much more than just the first two chapters - supposedly even the whole story as it existed then) on "stock" hardware, which has been confirmed in the brief details officially given during that interview. I believe that Yu Suzuki has also said exactly the same thing, and that there were two separate completed revisions of VF3. The first was rejected on grounds that an inferior Saturn version would harm sales of Genki's "superior" Dreamcast version (as if this was even close to arcade perfect), while the second was delivered to pressing plants before being ultimately rejected because Sega had already abandoned the Saturn.

The exact performance figures of either VF3 or Shenmue can't be pinned down, despite the fact that anyone interested in the latter has probably already seen the official footage of it. One thing that can be guaranteed is that Shenmue was running at between 12 and 15 frames per second with similar levels of detail to (though still a little higher than) Panzer Dragoon Saga. I've even seen a few people speculate - and it is only pure speculation - that both titles used the same graphics engine, though I prefer to believe that AM2 would create everything from scratch, even if these games date from close enough periods to give this theory some credibility. As for VF3, I've heard everything from 500,000 to 1,000,000 used in relation to its polygon count, though 750,000 seems more realistic. Another idea mentioned enough to be possible is the use of 2D parallax backgrounds in the first revision, which were replaced by basic 3D in the second "final" build. Also, for the winning sequences (where only one character can be seen up close) the models were switched to higher quality versions.

In the past I have written so much about these two games - VF3 in particular - but there's always someone coming forward with just enough knowledge to change the overall picture, so it's difficult for now to find out enough for concrete facts. However, one thing I do know is that nearly everything reported back in 1996-1997 (i.e. the entire "cartridge" issue) was almost entirely untrue. For example, if Core Design were using this upgrade then it would make more sense that it was being developed in either America (as suggested earlier) or Europe, as SOJ wasn't exactly open with sharing its technologies to its Western counterparts - remember the whole Sonic X-Treme episode? What we really need to close this case is for either of the long-rumoured revisions to leak or for some genuine screenshots and video footage. After all, they've already done this for Shenmue. Come on, AM2!...

 

[Shinobi]

Did you know? There is a Saturn prototype of VF3.

About a year ago I talked to a guy who worked at SoJ from Genesis through Saturn and did indeed see it. It was never shown outside the company or to press, however. It was described as "pretty good." The only resources made for the proto were one background, 2 characters and their full movesets. Oh yeah, low res and 30fps. So there you go.

BTW, there were some nice realtime VF models on one of the last Saturn devkits. These had no relation to the VF3 port.

You think they'd ever show this at some point? Cause I'd love to see it, simply out of curiousity. It was pretty surprising that they included that Saturn Shenmue video with Shenmue 2, though I think a lot of developers and media guys had seen it when that was the only version being made at the time.

The cart at least definitely existed. Core Design even confirmed it actually in an interview (their original plan was to have Tomb Raider 2 use it).

Old GF rumors pointed to AM2 developing versions of Saturn VF3 both with and without the cart. Maybe that's what happened?

Heh, I remember that interview...also Andrew Dee who was President of Sega Europe at the time confirmed it's existance as well. And Sonic Adventure was alleged to have started life with the near mythical "Eclipse" upgrade. I think there were been two versions of VF3 that were at least started, though I also remember reading the upgrade got turfed simply for costing too much ($130 is a figure that comes to mind).

apparently, there were two versions of Saturn VF3. one with the upgrade cart, and one without.

the one without the upgrade cart is said to have had graphics slightly better than Fighters Megamix and Saturn VF2. the one with the upgrade cart had significantly better 3D graphics, but at least a notch or two below that of the Genki coded Dreamcast VF3.

Ive heard that the upgrade cart used either a Lockhee Real3D chip or Series 1 PowerVR chip.

this is what I remember reading between the Beyond3D and Assemblergames boards


might want to follow these threads
http://assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1121&page=2&pp=20
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewt...0&postorder=asc&highlight=saturn+vf3&start=20
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9074&highlight=saturn+vf3
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewt...0&postorder=asc&highlight=saturn+vf3&start=20

Hmmm, that looks cool...I'll probably just save the links and read 'em over the weekend.

 

[Sho Nuff]

while the second was delivered to pressing plants before being ultimately rejected because Sega had already abandoned the Saturn.

This is a complete load of bull, btw

 

[Trojan X]

I guess I can use that site afterall. Alright, lemme see what VF3 movie I can create tonight for you guys.

 

[.hacked]

Japanese Dreamcast + VF3tb = best fucking Xmas ever!

 

[D-X]

I got it for the Project Berkley disc.

 

[Trojan X]

What kind of fights you want in this video dudes? Akira Vs Jacky?

 

[SaitoH]

Japanese Dreamcast + VF3tb = best fucking Xmas ever!

I imported mine and got it the day after boxing day. Best day-after-boxing-day ever!

^_~

 

[CurseoftheGods]

What kind of fights you want in this video dudes? Akira Vs Jacky?

Sounds good.

Aoi Vs Akira and Lion Vs Kage are also good.

 

[midnightguy]

I got my Dreamcast + VF3 after the Japanese launch but well before the U.S. launch.

April 1999

 

[CurseoftheGods]

I got my Dreamcast + VF3 after the Japanese launch but well before the U.S. launch.

April 1999

I got my Dreamcast + VF3 + Marvel Vs Capcom in March 1999. Best experience ever.

 

[Argyle]

I vaguely remember the VF3 characters being "sausage people" in the arcade version (basically a bunch of parts floating and intersecting with each other). I think they tried adding some skinning to the DC one, and it looked damn odd (Pai's screwed up arms).

VF3 in the arcade was definitely sausage people - they had enough polygons to cap all the joints so it looked pretty good, though.

I think the DC version models didn't use as many polygons, so we got weird shit like the hole in Shun's waist, etc...

 

[Instigator]

Anyone else like VF3's art style? I always preferred it to VF4's "extreme" one.

I kid, I kid.

 

[jarrod]

I never did get what the tb in VF3tb was for.

Team Battle

 

[Suzuki]

Great thread. VF3 was, and still is, an amazing fighter.