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We Actually Do Need Pro Consoles Again
- Thread starter Celcius
- Start date
killatopak
Member
We don't need it but I do want one.
01011001
Banned
that's not comparable to the current situation tho.
back then they basically could not update the CPU outside of clock boosts, because the architecture was dead. Jaguar wasn't really developed anymore since it was such a huge failure.
a pro console now would be based on the mkre recent Zen revisions and the newer RDNA revisions.
the architectural change alone could boost CPU limited games by 20 to 30 percent easily.
new RDNA versions would mean better RT hardware.
pro consoles this time around would bring a bigger architectural improvement than last gen
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existensmaximum
Member
No, we need more optimisation, polish and true exclusives. Not more brute force power, cross-gen and multiplats which forces the developers (or gives them an excuse to) to spread out their resources.
Hudo
Member
No. "Pro" versions of consoles are a bad idea. They can make revisions and slimmer versions but they shouldn't touch the overall specifications at all. Don't split the user base and don't give developers even more reasons to fuck up. It was already a mess with PS4 Pro and which game did 4k 60 or 4k 30 or 60fps at 1080p or whatever. Consoles are more and more loosing their biggest advantage over PC which is "I can just put this game in and I can play it as good as game devs intended without doing anything". It's already hilarious that you get some sort of performance settings. In the PS360 gen, that was something console warriors ridiculed the PC for "mimimi but you have to go through all the settings to make the game run well!!!!111".
If consoles loose their "plug and play"-ness due to multiple configurations then what's the fucking point of them anymore? They are already worse/walled-off PCs in many ways. And also: Do we really need them? Isn't the PS5 enough? And then what about the PS6? If you make a PS5 Pro then the jump between console generations will be as small as the jump between PS4 Pro and PS5. I had two friends questioning me about why they should upgrade to a PS5 like 1 and a half year ago. And I said "If you have to ask a question like that then you probably don't."
If consoles loose their "plug and play"-ness due to multiple configurations then what's the fucking point of them anymore? They are already worse/walled-off PCs in many ways. And also: Do we really need them? Isn't the PS5 enough? And then what about the PS6? If you make a PS5 Pro then the jump between console generations will be as small as the jump between PS4 Pro and PS5. I had two friends questioning me about why they should upgrade to a PS5 like 1 and a half year ago. And I said "If you have to ask a question like that then you probably don't."
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01011001
Banned
it shouldn't, but the current state of game development makes it seem like the only option
No if you go back developing less ambitiuos games.
Now seems like every game should be an endless open world.
Let me play a Viewtiful Joe or a Outrun with the best next gen graphics possible.
nightmare-slain
Member
Current gen consoles have not aged well so I guess you could say we need more powerful consoles either in the form of a Pro revision or next gen hardware.
I think current gen will be fine for another few years even if there are no revisions. You just need to accept 30fps and lower resolutions. Sony or Microsoft don't really HAVE to release new products.
If you really care about resolution or FPS then build a PC. Whenever I buy a PS5 I'll just grab the standard model (assuming we get a Pro) because I want to spent the least amount of money and I don't really buy consoles expecting good graphics or performance.
I think current gen will be fine for another few years even if there are no revisions. You just need to accept 30fps and lower resolutions. Sony or Microsoft don't really HAVE to release new products.
If you really care about resolution or FPS then build a PC. Whenever I buy a PS5 I'll just grab the standard model (assuming we get a Pro) because I want to spent the least amount of money and I don't really buy consoles expecting good graphics or performance.
01011001
Banned
but even those open world games should run better.
we're barely seeing anything that's more ambitious than open world games that ran on way weaker hardware.
and may I remind you that Playtonic, ex Rare veterans, were unable to get Yooka-Laylee running at 60fps on last gen, including One X!?
a game that literally looks worse at times than a GameCube game and 100% worse than a 360 game, and has ZERO ambition outside of slightly larger levels!?!?!?
that's the state gaming is in these days...
Knightime_X
Member
Waste of money if you ask me.
Personally, I'd wait for a next gen release and not only will I get better-than-pro-performance, I also get to play games that make use of better hardware.
All for the same price.
I skipped ps4 pro, and went straight to ps5. Because ps5 also gives me the benefits of ps4 pro...only better. Like ps4 super pro
I saved $300. To me, it was greatly worth it.
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01011001
Banned
we don't even know if console generations will continue to be a thing.
daninthemix
Member
What's the point OP? Give developers more power and they'll use it and you'll be back at 720p before too long. Then you'll be clammering for a PS6 (Pro). You'll never be satisfied.
01011001
Banned
well the hope would be IMO that developers being forced to support the base consoles (which would also have the bigger market share), would result in Pro versions running way smoother.
that is one reason why I like the Series S. as long as the Series S exists, third party Devs need to at least try a bit to not overdo it.
it just sucks that Sony doesn't have their own low power system. because if they did games as a whole would most likely run way better on both systems.
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SaniOYOYOY
Member
no we need healthy GPU price so that console can afford a great one inside
PeteBull
Member
Ps4 base to ps5 is roughly 6x gpu and 3x cpu power jump, back in the day when tech moved forward fast ps1 to ps2 was close to 100x power jump, u can clearly see it from console specs and from simply res/fps crossgen games playing on those consoles, and from top tier dev teams too, including sony first party studios.
And its not coz ps4 was monstrously strong back in 2013 both cpu and gpu wise
Ofc we got huge jump from 5400rpm hdd to very fast pcie gen4 ssd, which was very needed, vram/ram isnt big problem either, at those resolutions, so there are big positives of current gen console specs(talking ps5 and xsx, xss with its specs-3x weaker gpu from xsx and still 350$ price now- is trully a joke deal, no wonder customers dont want it aka its selling much worse from ps5).
Problem is/was tech advances much slower nowadays vs in the 90s and early 00s, and ofc we now get hardcapped by console TDP, aka machine cant draw 600Watts like topend desktop coz it would simply have no way to cool itself, hence max we can expect is actual 220W TDP(theoretical ps5 TDP is 350W since thats psu rated in it, but DF measured actual power draw from launch crossgen game, miles morales, it was hitting 206W already).
TLDR: We need more time, for tmsc to get their 3nm node usable enough to produce wafers with dies big enough(300-400 square mm) in enough quantity and at good enough quality that console manufactures can purchase them.
We arent far from that point so we will definitely see midgen upgrades holidays 2024 or latest in 2025, by then another gen of amd cards, with increased raytracing capablities will hit the market too, which is most welcome- coz in current gen consoles any lil bit of RT and very lil power is left for anything else- usually rt modes gets nasty cut in resolution, fps or both ;X
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PeteBull
Member
Cant play many ps5 exclusives on it yet, we can play some really amazing ps4/ps5 crossgen games but for example if some1 wants to play ff16 or HFW and its expack or upcoming spidey2, hell even remastered amazing looking classic like demons souls or even xgen GoW Ragnarok- tuff luck ;/
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AREYOUOKAY?
Member
Slim down the PS5 first.
LRKD
Member
Absolutely not. Games looked and ran better at the end of the gen due to devs becoming better familiar with hardware and learning new techniques to squeeze the most out of the consoles limited resources.
Now dum devs instead need more power to achieve less because they don't have the time or talent to optimize their games. Pro consoles are nothing more than a crutch for the industry. I'd rather just get a single console, and devs learn what they forgot 15 years ago, to actually target their games for what that console can run. If they actually planned and spent the time doing it we'd get games running at 60 fps on the PS5, not the ps5 pro.
Now dum devs instead need more power to achieve less because they don't have the time or talent to optimize their games. Pro consoles are nothing more than a crutch for the industry. I'd rather just get a single console, and devs learn what they forgot 15 years ago, to actually target their games for what that console can run. If they actually planned and spent the time doing it we'd get games running at 60 fps on the PS5, not the ps5 pro.
Nocturno999
Member
Do you really think these hypothetical consoles would run recent sub 1080p games at 4k 30~60 FPS?
PeteBull
Member
Its not late 90s, u wont experience tekken1 to tekken3 jump like back then on psx, back then devs were still in early stages of learning how to do 3d graphics.
Both ps5 and xsx lack simply more oomph, no optimisation will make those consoles perform 2x+ better vs now, even exclusives, even first party devs, cant work miracles.
First in a row example, why do u think spidey 2, gameplay from recent sony showcase(so not bullshot/cgi/ingame/in engine aka fake trailer, but actual real trailer), runs in 30fps and in dynamic res 1296p-1872p, and why starfield targets 30fps and still gets dynamic res with lower bound 1296p- that res is 60% of native 4k on both axis, aka 0,6x 0,6x= 36% of native 4k pixel amount, at 30fps at that.
Its not a "creative choice", if devs had consoles 2x stronger we would get higher res or/and 60fps mode (depends on cpu too in that case but those consoles got only downclocked and downvolted r7 3700x cpu, with less cashe, thats zen2 architecture, huge room for improvement in that area too).
PeteBull
Member
And im in, after i saw official ps5 specs reveal i was sure we gonna get pr0 consoles in few years.
By that time(earliest 1,5year, latest 2,5 years from now) i will get access to all those amazing exclusives and play them in best possible way, including spidey2, wolverine and who knows whats more ;D
I was ps4 owner already back in march 2014(was really hard to get it sooner, here in my country retailers were selling it at nasty markup vs msrp those first few months
) and fellt like a pleb back when ps4pr0 got announced in sept 2016/launched in nov 2016) so had strong resolve to never feel like that ever again
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I still think that given what happened to PS4 Pro that already had a very tiny fraction of sales, PS5 Pro would get even less attention from devs and brute forcing your way through would net less than ideal results.
So you are now facing diminishing returns, need a huge jump in HW performance to deliver a noticeable change in the games, and Moore’s Law keeps on slowing down (it is more and more expensive to jump from one manufacturing node to another and it takes longer and longer to do so and there are diminishing returns there too).
Releasing HW more frequently makes the problem worse because you make it impossible to optimise the game for your HW, need a much higher level of abstraction, and it is a waste of time as everything else tells you that we should release HW generations a bit further apart not closer.
Sure, if you think that it would be a good idea to sell a PS5 at double the size or something and $200-300 more or so maybe… but it would be a dud and we know that.
PeteBull
Member
https://www.ign.com/articles/2017/06/06/ps4-pro-represents-nearly-one-in-every-five-ps4s-sold i think 20% isnt bad number, ps5pr0 wont have lower one
Edit: And that would actually check out, those 20% are usually most hc playerbase, who do notice graphics/fps and will easily bite if stronger mashine is presented, as an option.
I will be definitely among them =P
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archangelmorph
Member
Bang on the money.
The irony is gamers are the ones getting suckered here.
Buy a buggy PoS up front -> £70 retail
Wait a year+ and buy the full polished release, probably with additional content -> £49.99 summer sale
Spyxos
Member
No we do not need pro consoles at all. It is a misconception that you would suddenly get 60 fps with the Pro console. First of all, the jump compared to the normal console would be quite small. And when even a 4090 starts to sweat in some games, a Pro console won't be able to help out much.
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Dream-Knife
Banned
Pro consoles won't be any different from gen 10 consoles. They're all just budget pcs now.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Common misconception. The ps5 architecture is still far from pc. unified ram, direct IO and hardware level access and so on.
Only the issue is that devs treat is as budget pc. That's what happens
RAIDEN1
Member
Hell no we don't! What we need instead are games that are the finished product from the get-go, not half-baked versions, I don't think we've seen anything yet that has pushed both Sony's and Microsoft's consoles to the limit and unless money is no object to you then fair enough get as many pros as you want...but I prefer the days from the 360/PS3 and years before that where you brought the console and you knew you would get a good 5/7 years out of it before its time was up....
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Krappadizzle
Member
I have no intention on buying a PS5 or XsX until either a refresh of the consoles itself or the next generation launches. This generation has been very tame as far as what's necessary to play next-gens game and a simple GPU upgrade has kept me ahead of the game for a while and that likely won't change anytime in the near future. So unless these consoles get themselves a bit of a power boost and can make my life better by being convenient piece of hardware, I'll just not buy one this generation.
I've not seen a single game released on either PS5 or XsX that is a "must-play" that I can only experience on those platforms. A lot of the "next-gen" games barely look better than last-gen and consoles seem to mostly be benefiting from performance gains, which as a PC player has kinda been the standard for me for a long time.
Sony has some great exclusives, but they are slowly making their way to PC so my patience is paying off so waiting to buy hardware from them that I actually want is very easy.
I've not seen a single game released on either PS5 or XsX that is a "must-play" that I can only experience on those platforms. A lot of the "next-gen" games barely look better than last-gen and consoles seem to mostly be benefiting from performance gains, which as a PC player has kinda been the standard for me for a long time.
Sony has some great exclusives, but they are slowly making their way to PC so my patience is paying off so waiting to buy hardware from them that I actually want is very easy.
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Thick Thighs Save Lives
Gold Member
More options is a good thing though, and games will still play great on base consoles just like they did last gen.
MisterXDTV
Member
The problem is how much they could improve the hardware without charging an insane price in this economy...
- If it's not significantly better, it's pointless
- If it's too expensive, it's pointless
Very hard this time to make a good proposition for Sony and or Microsoft
- If it's not significantly better, it's pointless
- If it's too expensive, it's pointless
Very hard this time to make a good proposition for Sony and or Microsoft
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AeonGaidenRaiden
Member
But this time the "Pro" wont be as effetive as last gen...what you get no drops 60fps in performance mode? To swap out consoles just for that? Last gen you got actual 4K support and any otehr game boosts. If someone wants to play 120fps, they have PC for that. As many said, we need optimized games, if inclusion of ray tracing messes with the game performance, remove it, its not like its some massive visual boost and everyone knows it. So far the inclusion of RT is so barebones...in replays or affecting only one type fo lighting.
Back in the day PC was always stronger but we had games running perfectly on consoles, now they are making a game on a PC, trying to make everything work on console instead of slightly dialing it down. Also most of PC gamers here as far as I remember still play 1080p or 1400...consoles (not every game) they give us 4K games which already is a hog for the system. We cant have 4K AND 60fps AND raytracing on $500 console. Theres a reson some people spend $3000 on a PC.
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Verchod
Member
I don't think Pro versions will achieve what some think they may. The games you mention won't be 4K native on Pro hardware.
It'll likely only be a GPU bump, and maybe storage. They can't change too much.
I don't think developers should be chasing RT on consoles either, just not enough power to do it justice and run the game properly.
It'll likely only be a GPU bump, and maybe storage. They can't change too much.
I don't think developers should be chasing RT on consoles either, just not enough power to do it justice and run the game properly.
Wooxsvan
Member
yes CPU utilization is a mess right now but i still want pro consoles
Mahavastu
Member
XBox Series S tried the "PS5 LOW" thing, and we know how it turned out
Mahavastu
Member
This would give us a problem with too long dev cycles.
For example a AAA game development would start when the PS4 is out, but does not get released before the PS6 is out.
Little Mac
Member
In my opinion, the only new consoles we need at the moment is a PS5 Slim cause the current design is ridiculous and, for fuck sake, a Switch Pro/Switch 2.
The current PS5 and Series X‘s power are more than fine. Zelda would be running 4k60 no problem on those machines and that game is evidently in the running for GOTY (haven’t played it). Games just need to be designed and optimized better. Gamers on every platform, including PC, are complaining about poor game performance/ports no matter how powerful their system is.
The current PS5 and Series X‘s power are more than fine. Zelda would be running 4k60 no problem on those machines and that game is evidently in the running for GOTY (haven’t played it). Games just need to be designed and optimized better. Gamers on every platform, including PC, are complaining about poor game performance/ports no matter how powerful their system is.
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Bonfires Down
Member
I’ve found it absurd that so many on an enthusiast forum are arguing against more powerful hardware.
Spyxos
Member
Because it will not achieve what many hope it will(4k,60 fps). In addition, it would be more expensive than ps4 pro and xbox one x this time. So the small group of people who are willing to buy something like this would be reduced again.
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chromatic9
Member
My concern would how much better a GPU could they put in with the power envelope available. We're not that far into the new gen. Can AMD bring significant RT improvements or is it really only nvidia?
Seems like bloated software looking back how fast and how high the res was for running comparable games not that long ago. We had PC versions running games at 100-200fps and now suddenly we have very poor PC ports and console games running at very low res and 30fps.
Seems like bloated software looking back how fast and how high the res was for running comparable games not that long ago. We had PC versions running games at 100-200fps and now suddenly we have very poor PC ports and console games running at very low res and 30fps.
Jigsaah
Gold Member
I was watching my boy stream FF16 because I was trying to make a decision whether to go out and get a PS5 now. Man I really wanna play, but I don't know if I wanna play it at this quality. I'm hoping the itch just goes away and I can forget about this. The motion blur is INTENSE and I hate motion blur. The 30 FPS is tolerable, but man...resolution drops in performance mode seem pretty significant from what I saw on the stream. It could have been more the fact that I was watching a Stream as opposed to seeing it in person, but man I don't think it could be just that.
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