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[Mrbob]

9-ish on a dual-layer (4.7 per layer) I believe.

True, but I'm thinking about usable space.

Che, good job at invoking Xbox 1.5 in the round table chat.

 

[sangreal]

9-ish on a dual-layer (4.7 per layer) I believe.

only ~7 is usable on an xbox 360 disc though

also, that is ~9 billion bytes or ~8.5gb (if I am not mistaken)

 

[gofreak]

9-ish on a dual-layer (4.7 per layer) I believe.

I think for 360 it's 7GB though, as they use the remaining space for security etc.

edit - beaten!

 

[AniHawk]

Man, early adopters will get so screwed by this. I think MS's strategy will be to lower the price of everything when the PS3 hits, meaning the prices of controllers (or maybe including a wireless superpack for $50 including the two other things for it), the $399 system, maybe memory cards, and probably faceplates. That way, in the face of the PS3, everything that was once so expensive now has a higher perceived value. Sort of a Platinum Hits thinking on hardware on their part.

I think Sony did this when Nintendo was selling their controllers for $25, compared to $35 extra PS2 controllers (and $35 memory cards... though I might be off on that by about $5), though it could've been the other way around.

 

[Amir0x]

You know, as much as I dislike the options Microsoft are offering us at launch, I still think all this jumping ship, "PS3 or bust", etc... proclamations is so ridiculously premature. I can't wait for the PS3 price thread, when people are like "399.99 w/o HD. WTF was Sony thinking? Page 1 2 3 4 5...98" and "Sony and Microsoft have officially gone mad. Does Nintendo has a chance again? Page 1 2 3 4 5...32" Nintendo left off HD and ethernet port, and that was just a taste of the bitching.

We've gotta see how consumers react, how developers react, and how the games look at least a few fucking months after the thing launches. You know we're all gonna buy something next-gen eventually, and we're all gonna have shit to bitch about in all camps. I think some of us have to get use to that prospect

 

[Mrbob]

You know, as much as I dislike the options Microsoft are offering us at launch, I still think all this jumping ship, "PS3 or bust", etc... proclamations is so ridiculously premature. I can't wait for the PS3 price thread, when people are like "399.99 w/o HD. WTF was Sony thinking? Page 1 2 3 4 5...98" and "Sony and Microsoft have officially gone mad. Does Nintendo has a chance again? Page 1 2 3 4 5...32" Nintendo left off HD and ethernet port, and that was just a taste of the bitching.

We've gotta see how consumers react, how developers react, and how the games look at least a few fucking months after the thing launches. You know we're all gonna buy something next-gen eventually, and we're all gonna have shit to bitch about in all camps. I think some of us have to get use to that prospect

Don't see it happening. Only the hardest of the hardcore Xbots and those who can't afford a next gen system will be the ones complaining. People are bracing for a above 300 dollar price point. Now seeing what MS is offering Sony offering the base package (I think there will be only one anyways) at $349 or $399 is acceptable for the one true next generation system coming out. The PLAYSTATION 3 offers so much more tech for the money at 399 than the core pack does for X360 at 299.

Now, if the PS3 somehow goes over 399, let the flaming commence. Of course, Sony has done a nice job so far getting people ready for next gen. They haven't had a 5 month clusterfuck and continuing like MS has accomplished.

 

[gofreak]

I can't wait for the PS3 price thread, when people are like "399.99 w/o HD. WTF was Sony thinking? Page 1 2 3 4 5...98

I'm not sure how much complaining you'd see here with a $399 PS3.

MS has managed to make such a prospect excellent value for money relatively speaking. And you know, that's reasonably hard to do. Sony probably can't believe their luck right now.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

You know, as much as I dislike the options Microsoft are offering us at launch, I still think all this jumping ship, "PS3 or bust", etc... proclamations is so ridiculously premature. I can't wait for the PS3 price thread, when people are like "399.99 w/o HD. WTF was Sony thinking? Page 1 2 3 4 5...98" and "Sony and Microsoft have officially gone mad. Does Nintendo has a chance again? Page 1 2 3 4 5...32" Nintendo left off HD and ethernet port, and that was just a taste of the bitching.

We've gotta see how consumers react, how developers react, and how the games look at least a few fucking months after the thing launches. You know we're all gonna buy something next-gen eventually, and we're all gonna have shit to bitch about in all camps. I think some of us have to get use to that prospect

oh to be sure. the ps3 will probably be overpriced, get features cut, have crap launch games, etc. and that will be cause for the usual crew to guess nintendo is having a resurgence, JohnnyNighttrain will tell us he was just drinking with miyamoto and after telling Johhny how wise and insightful he is he showed him a holographic zelda time machine etc. etc.

it's hard not to bitch at this launch though. you want to be wowed, I wanted an excuse to throw $$$ at the thing and get all next-gen in my gaming but they seem to want to make that impossible to do and not feel like an idiot.

 

[The Faceless Master]

You know, as much as I dislike the options Microsoft are offering us at launch, I still think all this jumping ship, "PS3 or bust", etc... proclamations is so ridiculously premature. I can't wait for the PS3 price thread, when people are like "399.99 w/o HD. WTF was Sony thinking? Page 1 2 3 4 5...98" and "Sony and Microsoft have officially gone mad. Does Nintendo has a chance again? Page 1 2 3 4 5...32" Nintendo left off HD and ethernet port, and that was just a taste of the bitching.

We've gotta see how consumers react, how developers react, and how the games look at least a few fucking months after the thing launches. You know we're all gonna buy something next-gen eventually, and we're all gonna have shit to bitch about in all camps. I think some of us have to get use to that prospect

that's assuming it's higher than $299 ...

 

[Jagernaut]

Man, early adopters will get so screwed by this. I think MS's strategy will be to lower the price of everything when the PS3 hits, meaning the prices of controllers (or maybe including a wireless superpack for $50 including the two other things for it), the $399 system, maybe memory cards, and probably faceplates. That way, in the face of the PS3, everything that was once so expensive now has a higher perceived value. Sort of a Platinum Hits thinking on hardware on their part.

Definitely, most people would be better off waiting until the PS3 launches to buy a X360. The prices will certainly go down when Microsoft is forced to compete, and Gears of War and 2nd gen games will look a lot better than the rushed launch games.

 

[sangreal]

You know, as much as I dislike the options Microsoft are offering us at launch, I still think all this jumping ship, "PS3 or bust", etc... proclamations is so ridiculously premature. I can't wait for the PS3 price thread, when people are like "399.99 w/o HD. WTF was Sony thinking? Page 1 2 3 4 5...98" and "Sony and Microsoft have officially gone mad. Does Nintendo has a chance again? Page 1 2 3 4 5...32" Nintendo left off HD and ethernet port, and that was just a taste of the bitching.

We've gotta see how consumers react, how developers react, and how the games look at least a few fucking months after the thing launches. You know we're all gonna buy something next-gen eventually, and we're all gonna have shit to bitch about in all camps. I think some of us have to get use to that prospect

The difference with the PS3 is that Sony has come out sand said all along that the PS3 will be expensive. They've also said all along that HDD may not be standard. Microsoft on the other hand chose to raise expectations, and now they are paying for it.

 

[Amir0x]

Don't see it happening. Only the hardest of the hardcore Xbots and those who can't afford a next gen system will be the ones complaining. People are bracing for a above 300 dollar price point. Now seeing what MS is offering Sony offering the base package (I think there will be only one anyways) at $349 or $399 is acceptable for the one true next generation system coming out. The PLAYSTATION 3 offers so much more tech for the money at 399 than the core pack does for X360 at 299.

Now, if the PS3 somehow goes over 399, let the flaming commence. Of course, Sony has done a nice job so far getting people ready for next gen. They haven't had a 5 month clusterfuck and continuing like MS has accomplished.

It doesn't have to come in the form of 399, that was just a sidewinding example. It can be anything, people are going to find something to bitch at. And some of the things will be perfectly reasonable (as I feel the complaining about the 299 package is). My point is there are still plenty of cards yet to be played. I bet after TGS 2005, at least half the people who "jumped ship" will be at the counter purchasing tickets for the next cruise. It's just the way the industry and gamers works. We have so many threads already complaining about this same thing - my God, I post so much and it's annoying even to me - I just think people should put it in perspective a bit.

If we want to specifically talk about this decision once again, then there's plenty I agree with you (and others) about. I'm just saying... step back a little and look at the big picture, ya know

I'm not sure how much complaining you'd see here with a $399 PS3.

MS has managed to make such a prospect excellent value for money relatively speaking. And you know, that's reasonably hard to do. Sony probably can't believe their luck right now.

It was just an example, as I said above. It could be anything. Sony is bound to make a bunch of little mistakes along the way (I believe not including HD standard was the first mistake, I bitched about it in the original thread) and perhaps even a big mistake. My point was only that people are already making decisions based on a fraction of the information we're eventually going to get about the start of next-gen.

But yeah, Sony has to be smiling a little bit about this turn of events. For the millionth time

oh to be sure. the ps3 will probably be overpriced, get features cut, have crap launch games, etc. and that will be cause for the usual crew to guess nintendo is having a resurgence, JohnnyNighttrain will tell us he was just drinking with miyamoto and after telling Johhny how wise and insightful he is he showed him a holographic zelda time machine etc. etc.

Hahaha, nice. But yeah, that's what I'm saying. You got my thinking. It might not even have to do with price, things change all the time. They are going to make decisions that piss people off. Wait for more information to see who pisses you off the least!

it's hard not to bitch at this launch though. you want to be wowed, I wanted an excuse to throw $$$ at the thing and get all next-gen in my gaming but they seem to want to make that impossible to do and not feel like an idiot.

Oh, I hear you. I already said a bunch of times that I am not adopting any next-gen systems until at the very earliest Christmas 2006, and most likely into 2007. And that's partially as a result to not be impressed. But it's also because with so much money on the line this time I have to make my decision right in terms of what I will adopt and when. I can't just buy them all at launch, I just don't have that sort of money.

that's assuming it's higher than $299 ...

Again, just an example. It can be anything. But yes, personally, I do assume it will be at least a hundred dollars higher than $299.

The difference with the PS3 is that Sony has come out sand said all along that the PS3 will be expensive. They've also said all along that HDD may not be standard. Microsoft on the other hand chose to raise expectations, and now they are paying for it.

I agree. I'm not disagreeing with this, much of the backlash IS warranted. I'm just saying the extent of it (one billion threads, three new ones popping up every minute) and the doomsday proclamations is premature. We don't even know what the competition is going to decide to do, and the mistakes they make might have nothing to do with these things.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

I'm with you. I am, err, was, a pretty ardent supporter of MSFT and the Xbox. Not because of any loyalties, but because I seen it as a fantastic system, with great games and support and features. I stood up for it when the blatant fanboys were being, well, blatent, closed minded fanboys. Eventually most everyone came around (goes to show how slow people are to change).

But I am off the X360 bandwagon. Splitting the market with 2 SKU's (the bottom one terrible) and overpricing accesories (to a rediculous level) along with rushed games and a rushed system (came out after PS2, coming out before PS3). I just can't back that.

What they should have done is have a base system with HDD and one wired controller for $299. And then sold the wireless controllers, component cables, remotes, wireless network adapter, xbox live, memory cards, wireless headset and all the other shit as accessories (for a fair price). This would have EASILY covered them on any loses. Hell, you know how many wireless controllers they would sell alone? Nobody would have paid for anything they didn't want this way and the HDD would have been standard and everyone happy.

I am completely off the X360 bandwagon and doubt I'll ever get on. PS3 or bust.

Hey wait, you stole my post! ROFL!

:lol

My Xbox and GC can hold me over till "next-gen".

 

[Bob White]

2006
Cheaper 360 (maybe)
Better 360 games (no doubt)
PS3 released
Revolution released
And to top it all off, a nice little chunk of time would have passed since the last system releases in 2000 and 2001.

Next Gen begins in 2006, regardless of Xbox 3DO coming in 2005.

Simply put, MS launched too fucking early.

 

[gofreak]

It was just an example, as I said above. It could be anything.

Of course. But $399 ain't the breaking point as far as relative value goes either IMO

I'm sure Sony will do some things that annoy me and annoy people. I just hope they are minor. So far so good.

 

[Ponn]

Definitely, most people would be better off waiting until the PS3 launches to buy a X360. The prices will certainly go down when Microsoft is forced to compete, and Gears of War and 2nd gen games will look a lot better than the rushed launch games.

IAWTP. No matter which one you want or even if you plan on getting both it has just never been more obvious to sit out this particular launch and wait till the shitstorm settles.

Sangreal

The difference with the PS3 is that Sony has come out sand said all along that the PS3 will be expensive. They've also said all along that HDD may not be standard. Microsoft on the other hand chose to raise expectations, and now they are paying for it.

True, but the difference is Sony has never said or made to assume the HDD would be standard or even that important to the PS3. Nowhere near the level MS has with Xbox and Xbox 360. And again you also have wifi built in and the BRD which will be a perceived value if you are looking for it or not to cushion the price shock.

 

[Mrbob]

No company is perfect and Sony will do some things wrong too, but they seem to be decent at keeping mistakes to a minimum. I think everyone is surprised that MS is looking like a rookie out there when this is their second console entry.

 

[shpankey]

I think one thing MSFT is doing is banking on their 'loyal' fanbase. I think they believe their hardcore fans will stick through them through anything. The thing is, we won't. Most of us are tech heads and people who have no problem switching camps to where we think the best tech and bang for the buck is. We aren't fucking Nintendo fans, who will take it up the ass and smile.

When the Xbox hit, it's value was off the fucking charts. More power, hard drive, built in network adapter, xbox live, Halo and some damn good games that other fanboys wouldn't even look at due to their biases. But for those of us that look at things as they are, we seen tremendous value in the system. We also seen a lot of injustice for a worthy system not getting a chance due to fanboyism, so we stuck up for it.

Now, MSFT thinks they can just turn us around and fuck us in the ass and we'll take it cause we're their fanbase? They seriously don't know their fanbase at all then. We have no reason, or have ever been given a reason other than maybe Halo, to do something like that. At least Nintendo fans have been rewarded throughout the years with (what they deem) awesome games, and that is reason enough to take a little ass cocking every once in awhile.

Anyhow... PS3 for me. I could not be any more dissapointed with the direction the X360 has taken than I am right now. Why they couldn't just pack in the HDD standard, one wired controller, a bare bones system and drop all the extra fluff and sell it for $299 and made up the difference in sales of accesories (reasonably priced of course) is beyond me.

 

[sonycowboy]

No company is perfect and Sony will do some things wrong too, but they seem to be decent at keeping mistakes to a minimum. I think everyone is surprised that MS is looking like a rookie out there when this is their second console entry.

Sony has plenty of opportunities to fuck things up, don't worry.

Issues out there for the PS3
---------------------------------
1) Pricing (Ken's been laying it on real thick)
2) HDD (at least, with Microsoft's bundle, the HDD adoption will be relatively high early on)
3) Online (Huge, huge chore to match up against Xbox Live)
4) Dev Kits (WAYYY behind microsoft in terms of units shipped, although ahead in terms of functionality)
5) Blu-Ray (if it loses the HD movie battle, it will be an expensive component to keep around)
6) Standard items (Wireless controller? HDMI cables? (not bloodly likely), online subscription, etc)
7) Will it allow open standards items (vs Microsoft seriously tightening up the box) like allowing game saves to CF, SD memory cards or just Memory Stick? Will it allow USB drives?
8) Timing - When can it hit the various regions?

 

[cvxfreak]

This was a good roundtable indeed. An insightful listen.

 

[Lunar Aura]

2006
Cheaper 360 (maybe)
Better 360 games (no doubt)
PS3 released
Revolution released
And to top it all off, a nice little chunk of time would have passed since the last system releases in 2000 and 2001.

Next Gen begins in 2006, regardless of Xbox 3DO coming in 2005.

Simply put, MS launched too fucking early.

why? this gen has lasted far too long and launching "early"gives MS the luxury of having better games next year. while the ps3 has its fantavisions and bouncers, the 360 will have its halos and gears of wars.

 

[shpankey]

Sony has plenty of opportunities to fuck things up, don't worry.

Issues out there for the PS3
---------------------------------
1) Pricing (Ken's been laying it on real thick)
2) HDD (at least, with Microsoft's bundle, the HDD adoption will be relatively high early on)
3) Online (Huge, huge chore to match up against Xbox Live)
4) Dev Kits (WAYYY behind microsoft in terms of units shipped, although ahead in terms of functionality)
5) Blu-Ray (if it loses the HD movie battle, it will be an expensive component to keep around)
6) Standard items (Wireless controller? HDMI cables? (not bloodly likely), online subscription, etc)
7) Will it allow open standards items (vs Microsoft seriously tightening up the box) like allowing game saves to CF, SD memory cards or just Memory Stick? Will it allow USB drives?
8) Timing - When can it hit the various regions?

Sony has the luxury of name brand recognition on the highest level though. Overcoming any mistakes they make (as long as not monumental) will be relatively easy. MSFT does not have that luxury.

Besides, who can back a system run by obvious retards? I mean, their answer was so simple. System, HDD and wired controller standard for $299. Sell all the other shit as accessories and make shitloads. That was the way. But the way they chose suggest monkeys are making the calls. Who the fuck can support monkeys? I am not a monkey supporter. I need to back homosapiens.

 

[Lunar Aura]

MS has gained ALOT of momentum coming off the 2001 stigmata of the "xbrick" and the system that was thought to be DOA.

 

[shpankey]

It takes a long time to gain momentum, and only a moment to lose it.

(side note: you meant 'a lot' not 'alot', i don't tell you this as someone who knows grammar or spelling well, but as I find it the most misspelled phrase on the internet and I have no idea why it bothers me, but it does)

I of course fully expect 100 corrections on something I've wrote here now. Because I do suck at spelling and grammar.

 

[Amir0x]

MS has gained ALOT of momentum coming off the 2001 stigmata of the "xbrick" and the system that was thought to be DOA.

God I hate this word already

What does it mean? Seriously, qualify it. "Momentum" means barely scratching out second place in a field with three main competitors? "Momentum" means you get your name spoken the most by consumers? Where can I find the chart that follows this? "Momentum" means what when you've started from 0? Anything over 0 is momentum then?

People say "Momentum" this and "Momentum" that. It holds no meaning whatsoever.

 

[Yossarian]

why? this gen has lasted far too long...

What the hell? How can you come to that conclusion? This generation reached its zenith just last Christmas, and there is still a lot left.

 

[shpankey]

To be fair, momentum is usually not something tangible. Take sports for example... you can clearly tell when a team gets momentum (or loses it) but it would be difficult to say exactly when or how they did. But it is very real nevertheless.

 

[shpankey]

and there is still a lot left.

YES!

 

[Instigator]

Am I the only gamer who doesn't care about online features? I find the price of Xbox 360 accessories outrageous, but I welcome the pricing relating to the console itself. Though not planning to get one at launch, I would choose the barebone 299-dollar model if I were.

 

[Amir0x]

To be fair, momentum is usually not something tangible. Take sports for example... you can clearly tell when a team gets momentum (or loses it) but it would be difficult to say exactly when or how they did. But it is very real nevertheless.

While this is true, this is NOT sports. Events can almost always be clearly tied with any significant shift, which we have not yet seen. Momentum is a word in this industry that underdogs use to try to explain the cavernous gaps between Sony and everyone else in terms of sales and developer support. It means nothing at all, and is usually tied to lots of excuses.

 

[AniHawk]

why? this gen has lasted far too long and launching "early"gives MS the luxury of having better games next year. while the ps3 has its fantavisions and bouncers, the 360 will have its halos and gears of wars.

that's the worst troll towards the ps3 I've ever heard.

 

[Firest0rm]

MS has gained ALOT of momentum coming off the 2001 stigmata of the "xbrick" and the system that was thought to be DOA.

Yea, and it's doing its best to destroy that very same momentum.

And generations should last atleast 5 years not 4 years Mr. Lunar.

 

[shpankey]

argh dp, sorries

 

[shpankey]

While this is true, this is NOT sports. Events can almost always be clearly tied with any significant shift, which we have not yet seen. Momentum is a word in this industry that underdogs use to try to explain the cavernous gaps between Sony and everyone else in terms of sales and developer support. It means nothing at all, and is usually tied to lots of excuses.

Yes, of course. But, momentum is such an abstract thing... it is difficult to quantify. I think the problem here is you see momentum as either having it all or none at all. The Xbox certainly gained some momentum. How much that is, I don't know... I won't attempt to quantify it. But I will say it could certainly lose what it has gained (or somehow gain more); but my bet is on losing it all.

 

[Mooreberg]

MS has gained ALOT of momentum coming off the 2001 stigmata of the "xbrick" and the system that was thought to be DOA.

Xbots am suiciding?

 

[Firest0rm]

Yes, of course. But, momentum is such an abstract thing... it is difficult to quantify. I think the problem here is you see momentum as either having it all or none at all. The Xbox certainly gained some momentum. How much that is, I don't know... I won't attempt to quantify it. But I will say it could certainly lose that (or gain more). My bet is on losing it all.

Well they thought they had momentum equivalent to 360˚ but in reality they only achieved 180˚.

 

[shpankey]

Xbots am suiciding?

stop posting

 

[Amir0x]

Yes, of course. But, momentum is such an abstract thing... it is difficult to quantify. I think the problem here is you see momentum as either having it all or none at all. The Xbox certainly gained some momentum. How much that is, I don't know... I won't attempt to quantify it. But I will say it could certainly lose that (or gain more). My bet is on losing it all.

My point is almost anything is momentum when you have nothing. That's why it's a very bad thing to argue for. It requires so many qualifiers. Of course Xbox gained some momentum. It got some solid developer support, it outsold PS2 in America for a while in 2004. But what does Sony have then?

Here's my point. Momentum only means something when it outpaces the momentum the competition has. Momentum means nothing in terms of how we're discussing it, because it's an excuse imho. It's a way for people to argue its base without going into the facts.

It's just the most annoying word in the world now. Every company tries to use it in some way, and hardcore gamers on message boards are just bludgering it..

 

[sonycowboy]

MS has gained ALOT of momentum coming off the 2001 stigmata of the "xbrick" and the system that was thought to be DOA.

Isn't momentum what Microsoft had last year for a couple of months? (unfortunately, it's being outsold by over 2-1 this year by the PS2)

 

[super-heated plasma]

that's the worst troll towards the ps3 I've ever heard.

Read. Thats the worst troll you've ever read.










;p j/k

 

[Agent X]

MS has gained ALOT of momentum coming off the 2001 stigmata of the "xbrick" and the system that was thought to be DOA.

Stigmata?

 

[Zer0]

Damage control by saying the blu-ray drive makes it worth the high price. Plus backwards compatability

damage control is speaking about the ps3 price when the question is the 360

 

[Musashi Wins!]

Who the fuck can support monkeys? I am not a monkey supporter. I need to back homosapiens.

this is one of the greatest things I've ever read on this forum, and I will paypal sp0rsk or other applicable parties if I can have it for a tag. even though I'm not the author.

and also, I feel your dissapointment and it is very shared. and amir0x is right that things are a bit out of hand. it's like blood in the water for the shark/trolls of other systems and everyone is jumping in at this point because they are handling this launch like....monkeys. retarded monkeys.

 

[Varian]

I think the roundtable format was a great idea. Much more informative than anything MS has done.

If you do this in the future Che, you ought to clean yourself up a little before appearing on camera. Comb the hair, trim the sideburns, etc. Jane, now there's a professional.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

I think the roundtable format was a great idea. Much more informative than anything MS has done.

If you do this in the future Che, you ought to clean yourself up a little before appearing on camera. Comb the hair, trim the sideburns, etc. Jane, now there's a professional.

I thought Jane looked better when she was internet famous for using the rez vibrator. same girl, yes?

 

[Varian]

No idea. That could explain Che looking so disheveled, though.

 

[chespace]

I think the roundtable format was a great idea. Much more informative than anything MS has done.

If you do this in the future Che, you ought to clean yourself up a little before appearing on camera. Comb the hair, trim the sideburns, etc. Jane, now there's a professional.

well, okay. i'll try to look more presentable next time.

mrbob: i was going to give GAF a shoutout but couldn't work it in. hey, at least i brought up Wallguy.

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

Read. Thats the worst troll you've ever read.










;p j/k

He's blind ... he types using voice recognition software, and "reads" by hearing his Butler read the posts. Asshole.

 

[MrDaravon]

damage control is speaking about the ps3 price when the question is the 360

That made me think how hilarious it would be if the PS3 launched at $360.

 

[Dave Long]

You bitches, I was trying my hardest to defend Microsoft.

But no amount of damage control can get me to think that paying 100 bucks for a 20 gig HDD (or wi-fi adapter) is a good value. That's basically 500 bucks for your "complete" package.

Then there are the games...

That last line is ominous...