Support NeoGAF

[chespace]

does this mean you upgraded your firmware?

I think he said the same line about it being a special HDD, fitted for the machine blah blah.

2.0 firmware get!

I figured, fuck it, I'll pop the cherry in my virgin 1.0 Japanese PSP because I'm never gonna have time to really explore the PSP scene anyway (and to this day, I've still not played an emulated game on PSP). The browser is far more useful, although, the fact that you can't browse GAF makes it not so useful in a lot of ways.

A special HDD fitted for the machine?

 

[Musashi Wins!]

I'm sure the comment is on the board some place, I though I recalled him making a case for the uniqueness of the HD and hence the price.

small derailment...why can't we browse gaf with it? did anyone figure that out?

 

[Triumph]

A special HDD fitted for the machine?

I think this is what yer lookin for:

J Allard (Expert):
Q: Why is the hard drive so highly priced? A 20GB hard drive now a days goes for about 20-30... why $100? I believe this will deter alot of sales..

A: the 20 gb hard drive is a 2.5 inch user servicable drive and is more expense than a pc "crack the box" drive. it's one of the reasons we pushed to create a compelling premium bundle.

J Allard (Expert):
Q: Why is the hard drive so highly priced? A 20GB hard drive now a days goes for about 20-30... why $100? I believe this will deter alot of sales..

A: one of the reasons that we designed a user removable hard drive is in direct response to the hard core gaming audience to make it easier to take game saves, game maps, soundtracks, etc. easily to their friends house or lan party. they also wanted the ability to upgrade to larger capacity drives. and if the drive is not present because someone in the house took it on the road, you still want to be able to use the console for movies, music or games.

 

[border]

How many hardcore gamers really wanted a removable hard drive? So you can take it to LAN parties....huh? The point of a LAN party is to assemble a bunch of systems rather than a bunch of hard drives.

Seems like "removable HD" would be pretty low on the request list, and almost certainly below Wifi. The "hardcore gamer" thing is just an excuse. It's really removable so that they don't have to engineer two different consoles...

 

[Ristamar]

You can't really blame the publishers though...the Cube fans suck at supporting anything besides 1st and 2nd party efforts.

Basically, GameCube fans doomed the GameCube to 3rd place. If they weren't so freaking reluctant to try something without Mario in it, maybe they would have had good support throughout the life of the system. The controller was weird, yes, but if the gamers would have bought 3rd party titles, the developers would have released games on the system regardless.

Hey, not all cube owners ignored third party stuff...

I even own quite a few GC titles developed or published by *gasp* EA.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

Hey, not all cube owners ignored third party stuff...

I even own quite a few GC titles developed or published by *gasp* EA.

I have tons of 3rd party Cube stuff as well, but generally, Cube fans shun the 3rd party releases.

 

[VictimOfGrief]

Having watching the 1up Round Table -


Xbox 360 = Xbox 1.5
2 SKU's = 1 SKU for casual gamer = 1 SKU 4 Hardcore gamers = Consumers screwed
People without HDTV's = Not the mainstream market?
Kimi = Non-Retard pack
HDD is confirmed 2.5 slim = modders delight. Swap to a larger drive within minutes
Early Adopters are not casual gamers.


So with that in mind, (after just getting off the phone with local EB store) I'm not getting one at launch, I'm going to wait till probably after Christmas to get one after the hype dies down and maybe even prices on the games drop.

Interesting how MS really blew the marketing on this system. Who knows, if Sony releases some compelling news, I may end up waiting for the PS3.

Who knows though, interesting video and debate to say the least.

 

[shpankey]

I think as the launch gets closer, more and more gamers are going to start bailing out. Sony will have a lot to do with that... so will the poor showing of launch titles, so will a lot of poor word of mouth from the hardcore pissed over this whole ordeal (like me). I forsee the system as doomed already. And I have no problems putting that prediction out there. I also think this opens up the possibility for Nintendo to regain market share for a definitive second place, X360 getting a very distant 3rd.

I also had no problem predicting the Xbox 1 would be a success and get 2nd place back when it was a laughing stock around here. I was literally laughed off the boards back then. But I seen the value in the system and knew how determined MSFT was and how they were doing everything right.

Now, they are doing everything wrong. They simply do not have a large enough or loyal enough fanbase for these kinds of hideous mistakes.

 

[----]

I don't care what anyone says, in my opinion the HDD has now become a peripheral. And worse yet an expensive one to boot. For peripherals to even have a chance of having a high attach ratio over the life of a console they must be inexpensive ($50 and under) and/or bundled into the standard console and they must be well supported by developers. If you look at the way Sony has successfully added peripherals as standard devices (the network adapter, the dual shock for PSOne) what they did is they first introduced it as an inexpensive peripheral and then sold it with all of their hardware as a standard. MS is looking to do the exact opposite with the HDD. They're starting out bundling it with most of their consoles and then gradually phasing it out as a standard over time. How many core pack owners are ever going to be wiling to spring for the $100 HDD peripheral? Very few I bet because it's so expensive.

If MS was deadset on not including the HDD with every system, the most important thing MS could have done was sell the 20GB HDD peripheral at a low price starting at around $40 and then offer a 40GB version for $70, 60GB for $100. Unfortunately they went with an expensive SATA laptop drive because in MS's minds people are going to be carrying around HDD's in their pockets. :lol Does anyone here who doesn't work in the game industry really ever see themselves removing the HDD from Xbox 360 and taking it somewhere with them? They use the example of Xbox 360 LAN parties as if Xbox 360 LAN parties are a common occurrence for most people and people who have Xbox LAN parties don't bring their own game hardware. I don't ever envision myself going someplace where an Xbox 360 system is provided for free to me and I just have to swap in my HDD. If the 20GB HDD was a regular IDE drive and they were selling it for $40 I could actually see some casual gamers trying it out, but at $100 for a 20GB HDD I don't see many people taking the plunge on that accessory. When you price a peripheral at $100 you make it a niche product. The wi-fi adapter and HDD will be niche peripherals to most people the way the MS wi-fi bridge for Xbox is a niche product right now.



And then there's the problem of what exactly we're expected to do with this storage. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but...

-- You can't copy files from a USB device to the HDD
-- You can't copy files from a PC to the HDD
-- There are no music or video download services for Xbox 360
-- You can't copy data from the 360 HDD to another device or computer.

So how exactly are you supposed to get any multimedia content onto the HDD? The only way I know of is to rip music cds. And if you do get content onto the HDD it's essentially trapped onto that HDD since you can't copy data off of the Xbox 360 drive.

 

[Guy LeDouche]

How many hardcore gamers really wanted a removable hard drive? So you can take it to LAN parties....huh? The point of a LAN party is to assemble a bunch of systems rather than a bunch of hard drives.

Seems like "removable HD" would be pretty low on the request list, and almost certainly below Wifi. The "hardcore gamer" thing is just an excuse. It's really removable so that they don't have to engineer two different consoles...

I never realized that meant they want people to carry HDDs around and have to hot swap them on one machine to be able to load profiles.

 

[Gorgie]

MS hasn't offered me a compelling reason why next gen can't wait. Unimpressive games, high prices on system, high prices on accessories, high priced games, no built in WIFI, and half-assed support for backwards compatibility. 2006 or bust!

 

[Varian]

I'm sure the comment is on the board some place, I though I recalled him making a case for the uniqueness of the HD and hence the price.

small derailment...why can't we browse gaf with it? did anyone figure that out?

Has anyone tried http://www.google.com/imode? I use it on my cellphone.

EDIT: It's read-only though.

 

[bill0527]

Even if thats true and generic usb adapters dont work whats to stop you from getting an ethernet bridge for 30-50 bucks. They arent much more than the usb devices.

Where are you shopping for ethernet bridges? The Linksys wireless gaming A/G gaming adapter has a fucking list price of $129.99. Here


The D-Link wireless A/G gaming adapter has a list price of $99.99 here


These are the exact same kind of wi-fi adapters that Microsoft will be selling for the X360 and it is comparable in price to the exact same kind of adapters sold by other companies.

 

[sangreal]

Where are you shopping for ethernet bridges? The Linksys wireless gaming A/G gaming adapter has a fucking list price of $129.99. Here


The D-Link wireless A/G gaming adapter has a list price of $99.99 here


These are the exact same kind of wi-fi adapters that Microsoft will be selling for the X360 and it is comparable in price to the exact same kind of adapters sold by other companies.

Microsoft is selling a USB adapter for the X360, not an ethernet bridge

 

[Flo_Evans]

Where are you shopping for ethernet bridges? The Linksys wireless gaming A/G gaming adapter has a fucking list price of $129.99. Here


The D-Link wireless A/G gaming adapter has a list price of $99.99 here


These are the exact same kind of wi-fi adapters that Microsoft will be selling for the X360 and it is comparable in price to the exact same kind of adapters sold by other companies.

wrong. The x360 wifi adapter is not an ethernet bridge. It has a USB connector. It does not have and ethernet port. Oh and just for you, here are a whole slew of ethernet bridges for under $40.

http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q...org.mozilla:en-US:official_s&tab=wf&scoring=p

edit: bleh! too slow... I have links though!

 

[bill0527]

wrong. The x360 wifi adapter is not an ethernet bridge. It has a USB connector. It does not have and ethernet port. Oh and just for you, here are a whole slew of ethernet bridges for under $40.

http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q...org.mozilla:en-US:official_s&tab=wf&scoring=p

Ok, I didn't realize that Microsoft's adapter was a USB adapter, but the point still stands that the current Xbox Wireless gaming adapter is comparable in price to the other ethernet bridges I listed above.

Oh.. and those links you posted are to wireless B bridges. The oldest fucking standard out there. Of course its going to be cheaper. The higher prices are for Wireless G/B and wireless A/G/B adapters.

 

[Jagernaut]

Now, they are doing everything wrong. They simply do not have a large enough or loyal enough fanbase for these kinds of hideous mistakes.

This is the bottom line. Only the market leader can make these decisions and get away with it. Most gamers owned a PS2, not an Xbox last gen.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Oh.. and those links you posted are to wireless B bridges. The oldest fucking standard out there. Of course its going to be cheaper. The higher prices are for Wireless G/B and wireless A/G/B adapters.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...Sku=S195-2092&SRCCODE=GOOPROD&CMP=OTC-FROOGLE

here is a 802.11g bridge for $45. But thats not the point. The point is the MS wifi adapter is a USB connector, thier little chip (to lock out 3rd party USB stuff) a chip for WEP and a peice of wire for an antenna + a little plastic. It probably cost MS $10 to produce at the most. Charging $100 for it is insane.

 

[HokieJoe]

Don't see it happening. Only the hardest of the hardcore Xbots and those who can't afford a next gen system will be the ones complaining. People are bracing for a above 300 dollar price point. Now seeing what MS is offering Sony offering the base package (I think there will be only one anyways) at $349 or $399 is acceptable for the one true next generation system coming out. The PLAYSTATION 3 offers so much more tech for the money at 399 than the core pack does for X360 at 299.

Now, if the PS3 somehow goes over 399, let the flaming commence. Of course, Sony has done a nice job so far getting people ready for next gen. They haven't had a 5 month clusterfuck and continuing like MS has accomplished.

Sorry Mrbob, gotta agree with AmirX here. On top of that, I think it's pure folly to expect any PS3 sku south of $399. In fact, I expect it to be higher.

 

[dlobro1080]

>>Now, they are doing everything wrong. They simply do not have a large enough or loyal enough fanbase for these kinds of hideous mistakes.<<

I wouldn't call them hideous mistakes, more like a new phase in console strategy. Releasing two versions of the same product that can play, bottom line, the same software, to appeal to 2 different types of consumer is smart, not stupid. There may be 5 guys on internet message boards pissed off about what's happened, but if the Xbox 360 comes out and the games are great (and this launch lineup looks very, very good), then the system will sell, both in its premium and core packages, and will be THE gift of the holiday season.

 

[Triumph]

Man I swear, you guys are acting like a bunch of drama queens. "XBOX 360 KILLED MY BABY!!!"

If the games are good, you know that you'll be there. That said, most of the launch stuff looks pretty underwhelming(Oblivion the exception for me, and it will be available on the PC).

I would shell out $400 for next gen hardware without being too pissed off about it. But without quality releases? And $60 a pop for these underwhelming games? That's the bigger crime, IMO.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Man I swear, you guys are acting like a bunch of drama queens. "XBOX 360 KILLED MY BABY!!!"

It did, didn't it? :lol

If the games are good, you know that you'll be there. That said, most of the launch stuff looks pretty underwhelming(Oblivion the exception for me, and it will be available on the PC).

That's basically the thing. If things were different, I would have probably picked up a 360 at launch like I expected. But now, with the way things are and the fact that no single game seems like I gotta have it - I figure - I should just wait.

 

[IJoel]

Man I swear, you guys are acting like a bunch of drama queens. "XBOX 360 KILLED MY BABY!!!"

If the games are good, you know that you'll be there. That said, most of the launch stuff looks pretty underwhelming(Oblivion the exception for me, and it will be available on the PC).

I would shell out $400 for next gen hardware without being too pissed off about it. But without quality releases? And $60 a pop for these underwhelming games? That's the bigger crime, IMO.

I have to agree that ultimately, it's the games that sell consoles. Unfortunately, those shown by MS so far have been generally underwhelming. PGR3 and Oblivion look really good though, but they are not really system sellers (I hope I'm wrong here.)

 

[Triumph]

That's basically the thing. If things were different, I would have probably picked up a 360 at launch like I expected. But now, with the way things are and the fact that no single game seems like I gotta have it - I figure - I should just wait.

See that's the mature thing to do. Not go around saying stuff like "MS JUST SHAT IN MY SOUP I MEAN I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY WOULD DO THIS I'M TOTALLY NOT SUPPORTING THEM NO MATTER WHAT". The guilty know who they are, and I'm bookmarking this thread so that when I see them posting about Gears of War or Halo 3 in a year or so I can smack them in the face with it.

YOU WILL BUY THE DAMN SYSTEM WHEN THE GOOD GAMES COME OUT AND PROBABLY AT A LOWER PRICE NOW QUIT WHINING LIKE SOMEONE JUST SLEPT WITH YOUR SISTER AND KICKED YOUR DOG

 

[Musashi Wins!]

new thread:

"J ALLARD KICKS MY SISTER, SLEEPS WITH DOG *SOURCE INSIDE*"

 

[chespace]

I just spoke to someone on the development team of Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion.

Working on a story shortly about what they think of the two-SKU strategy and how that will impact Oblivion on Xbox 360.

 

[Gazunta]

Has anyone tried http://www.google.com/imode? I use it on my cellphone.

EDIT: It's read-only though.

I use it all the time, have been for months. I just wish I could post with it. Still, it does the job for trips to and from work. I also wish I could tell Google not to break up threads into so many pages. Beats buying a PSP tho

 

[super-heated plasma]

I just spoke to someone on the development team of Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion.

Working on a story shortly about what they think of the two-SKU strategy and how that will impact Oblivion on Xbox 360.

Cool, can't wait. ANyway, maybe you could figure this out Che.

When Halo 3 ships it will have its share of glitches, exploits, and cheats to take advantage of just like Halo 2, maybe even more.

How the hell is Bungie gonna patch a game where a cheater can run rampant when that said cheater has no hard drive plugged in or no space on his chincy memory card for the new patch? What is Bungie gonna do? Prohibit people who don't have a Hard drive connected or memory card from playing thier game?

This is things that having no HDD can do to cause me true irritation. I love my XBOX and I love my Halo, but their decisions are even pushing me off the launch bandwagon.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

you don't need a HD for patches. I was a regular socom player and they patched it a few times on the memory card. you do need at least a memory card, but that doesn't seem unreasonable in and of itself. now, for levels and such I'd imagine you would need the hd, but often those are extra now and ps2 didn't even offer such things so again, no big surprises.

 

[Mrbob]

I read that majornelson Q&A session in bed on my PSP last night... did J Allard really address why it costs 100 bucks for a 20 gig HDD? I seem to remember the question, but I don't remember the answer.

While MS will never come out and say it, I bet some of the extra cost for the 20 gig hdd is charging users for backwards compatability. The price for hiring people to do emulation probably isn't cheap and MS wants to be comepensated for it.

Looking forward to your Oblivion article!