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[Lanrutcon]

MMA and boxing are all sports. I used MMA as a clear example of how biology works. Are you gonna sit there and tell me you truly believe there is no difference biologically between men and women and just call out misogyny when somebody asks you a question? Why entire countries use men as soldiers? Thread is dumb AF but so was your Amazonian comment and comes off as somebody that doesn't have a grasp on reality. Keep telling people they should leave their basements as well that one is always classy and you don't come off as a danger hair at all.

Before I respond...wtf is danger hair?

 

[GymWolf]

How is this shit nearly 100 replies? God gamers are dumb.

Nearly 100 replies who disagree with the op, maybe next time actually read these dumb replies before posting...

 

[Jason28]

I knew a girl who was stronger than me.
She used to rape me everyday (

 

[GymWolf]

Before I respond...wtf is danger hair?

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Nearly 100 replies who disagree with the op, maybe next time actually read these dumb replies before posting...

It is easier to make blanket statements rather than actually read the thread or the comments.

 

[Thugnificient]

Nearly 100 replies who disagree with the op, maybe next time actually read these dumb replies before posting...

And maybe you should make sure you understand the point I was making before replying?

 

[mcz117chief]

I have no problem with women fighting man one and one and winning when the setting is clearly established as such, fantasy, sci-fi, shonen manga etc. but when you try to have a game set in a real world grounded in realism it just looks comical, like Drake fighting those 7 feet tall gorillas in Uncharted and even then he used the environment to his advantage to defeat them. Drake would be turned to paste after a single punch from that guy.

 

[GymWolf]

And maybe you should make sure you understand the point I was making before replying?

Is your point the fact that people even posted in a topic with such a stupid premise?

Well people in this forum actually discuss stuff, even stupid stuff sometimes.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Woody Allen vs Rhonda Rousey, I got 20 on Woody

 

[Thugnificient]

Is your point the fact that people even posted in a topic with such a stupid premise?

No it’s the fact there is even an argument and some posters are legitimately trying to make one in favor of the OP or saying he has a point when it’s frankly stupid.

355 replies. What is there to discuss exactly at that point?

I shouldn’t even have replied because giving this thread a bump goes against what I’m even preaching.

 

[GymWolf]

No it’s the fact there is even an argument and some posters are legitimately trying to make one in favor of the OP or saying he has a point when it’s frankly stupid.

355 replies. What is there to discuss exactly at that point?

I shouldn’t even have replied because giving this thread a bump goes against what I’m even preaching.

Dude we have far stupider topic in here, at least we can laugh at these discussions

Just put the topic on ignore if you don't wanna see it.

Majority of people are shitting on OP statement but you always gonna find some people that are okay with that, it happen in every discussion.

 

[Optimistic Gamer]

Before I respond...wtf is danger hair?

Isn't bayonetta nude apart from wearing hair?
I've seen that shit crush and bite fools.
Danger hair indeed.

 

[GymWolf]

Woody Allen vs Rhonda Rousey, I got 20 on Woody

That bitch is not ready for allen submission game

 

[kuncol02]

Why entire countries use men as soldiers?

That's because men were and are expendable.

 

[Jon Neu]

That's because men were and are expendable.

And are simply much much better at combat.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

That's because men were and are expendable.

Wars determined the fate of countries. Why use expendable units? If anything countries used the best they had to invade or defend their country. By large and to this day it is mostly men that have to burden corporate wars. Which is fucking unfeminist and sexist.

 

[Jon Neu]

And even if you want to discuss a hypothetical situation where she would be fist-fighting a stronger male opponent, all it would take is even a lucky punch to the temple, forehead or chin to make him see black or feel dizzy/disoriented for a second or 2

Good fantasy.

You still seem to not grasp the brutal difference in the physical attributes of a man vs a woman. The chances of Abby beating an stronger male oponent are almost zero in a realistic scenario.

 

[Psykodad]

Good fantasy.

You still seem to not grasp the brutal difference in the physical attributes of a man vs a woman. The chances of Abby beating an stronger male oponent are almost zero in a realistic scenario.

Almost zero, so you already validated my example by keeping that tiny rare chance open and I was talking about a lucky punch.

 

[kuncol02]

Wars determined the fate of countries. Why use expendable units? If anything countries used the best they had to invade or defend their country. By large and to this day it is mostly men that have to burden corporate wars. Which is fucking unfeminist and sexist.

Because they are expendable. That's the point. You don't send to war people whose you can't afford to loose (unless you really have no other choice).

 

[Jon Neu]

Almost zero, so you already validated my example by keeping that tiny rare chance open and I was talking about a lucky punch.

It's impossible to say there's a zero chance. Basically because in principle you can't say that Ally McBeal has a zero chance of beating Tyson Fury.

Because they are expendable. That's the point. You don't send to war people whose you can't afford to loose (unless you really have no other choice).

And women are total crap in combat, so it would be a silly way of losing baby makers with no real benefit.

 

[PapyDoc]

I have no problem with women fighting man one and one and winning when the setting is clearly established as such, fantasy, sci-fi, shonen manga etc. but when you try to have a game set in a real world grounded in realism it just looks comical, like Drake fighting those 7 feet tall gorillas in Uncharted and even then he used the environment to his advantage to defeat them. Drake would be turned to paste after a single punch from that guy.

Oh it's a nice reference to the raider of the lost ark, you know the brawl between Indy and the giant german dude. Now I think of it it's quite a trope in the adventure movies and yes Uncharted is an Adventure movie with videogame layers in it.

 

[K.N.W.]

I'm a martial artist and I care for my body to not grow to much muscles: it would slow me down, and I wouldn't be able to hit quickly, dodge or parry.
So I think the way Ellie dodges and hits with her knife is fine, even aloy with her sting would be way faster and precise than men. In fact you don't ever see Ellie strangle someone, I honestly think that someone more trained and faster (smaller) would be deadlier than the usual all muscles snorlax-speed thugs. Imagine picking up a fight with someone from Asia, they usually are smaller, but really keen on martial arts: you would acknowledge the punch that knocked you out when you wake up in hospital... If you do wake up.

...... Lara Croft is nonsense though....

 

[Jon Neu]

I'm a martial artist

even aloy with her sting would be way faster and precise than men

 

[Psykodad]

It's impossible to say there's a zero chance. Basically because in principle you can't say that Ally McBeal has a zero chance of beating Tyson Fury.

That's the point, that's how fighting goes in reality.
Even the tiniest bit of luck can change the entire fight.

And yes, Ally McBeal vs Mike Tyson is an extreme example, we were talking about Abby, who has been trained to fight for survival.
And it only takes one hit to get disoriented for 2 seconds, even with Mike Tyson.
It's up to how that moment of opportunity is being taken advantage of that decides combat efficiency.
In Abby's case, she could pull a knife and stab his throat.

We could argue about hypothetical situations forever, but the principle remains the same:
Fighting efficiency is far more than just inherent strength differences. All it does, is increase the odds. That's it.

 

[jigglet]

Who really cares? It's a video game. I love the idea of a strong female protagonist, like Lara Croft.

In real life? Yes I agree, let's stop with this fucking delusion that a female should be fighting side by side men on the battlefield.

 

[EviLore]

Imagine picking up a fight with someone from Asia, they usually are smaller, but really keen on martial arts: you would acknowledge the punch that knocked you out when you wake up in hospital... If you do wake up.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Because they are expendable. That's the point. You don't send to war people whose you can't afford to loose (unless you really have no other choice).

You are missing the point yourself, the women left behind end up dead or raped if a war is lost. Your resources are all lost as well. You send your best fighters out to fight. That is what this thread is about and why I brought up troops. If women were better at combat we'd send them instead. A liability isn't a valuable resource it is just that a liability.

 

[Jon Neu]

We could argue about hypothetical situations forever, but the principle remains the same:
Fighting efficiency is far more than just inherent strength differences. All it does, is increase the odds. That's it.

There are not only strenght differences, men are much faster than women, much more athletic, much more resistent, etc... I mean, it's literally basic biology.

But I guess that makes biology sexist.

 

[kuncol02]

You are missing the point yourself, the women left behind end up dead or raped if a war is lost. Your resources are all lost as well. You send your best fighters out to fight. That is what this thread is about and why I brought up troops. If women were better at combat we'd send them instead. A liability isn't a valuable resource it is just that a liability.

You are missing point. If women would fight in war and you would have won with heavy looses then you would be as fucked as if you would loose that war. You don't send your only way to replenish soldiers number into war if you have another option.

 

[joe_zazen]

i like working with the female form and enjoy feminine energy

 

[Psykodad]

There are not only strenght differences, men are much faster than women, much more athletic, much more resistent, etc... I mean, it's literally basic biology.

But I guess that makes biology sexist.

At what point did I argue against that?
You're strawmanning rn.

 

[Jon Neu]

At what point did I argue against that?
You're strawmanning rn.

You said:

Fighting efficiency is far more than just inherent strength differences

And I just clarified to you that there's not only vast strength differences, there's vast differences in almost every metric that is an advantadge in a physical confrontation.

And I say that too because there is this widespread notion that men are stronger but women are faster and quicker, which is a lot of well intentioned bullshit. Men are also much faster, quicker and coordinated than women. The athleticism of men is simple leagues and leagues above of the women's.

I mean, have you seen a WNBA game or a female soccer game? It's fucking hilarious how clumsy, slow and weak they are.

 

[Apocryphon]

I'm a martial artist and I care for my body to not grow to much muscles: it would slow me down, and I wouldn't be able to hit quickly, dodge or parry.
So I think the way Ellie dodges and hits with her knife is fine, even aloy with her sting would be way faster and precise than men. In fact you don't ever see Ellie strangle someone, I honestly think that someone more trained and faster (smaller) would be deadlier than the usual all muscles snorlax-speed thugs. Imagine picking up a fight with someone from Asia, they usually are smaller, but really keen on martial arts: you would acknowledge the punch that knocked you out when you wake up in hospital... If you do wake up.

...... Lara Croft is nonsense though....

...you made me spit out my tea you fuck!

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

You are missing point. If women would fight in war and you would have won with heavy looses then you would be as fucked as if you would loose that war. You don't send your only way to replenish soldiers number into war if you have another option.

I'm sure the fallen nation has plenty of women though. Considering women aren't a minority we'd fair well either way. Again the last thing a nation wants is death or losing resources. Men fight wars because they are better at it, not because they are more expendable than women. You also talk about expanding a population as if that is possible instantaneously. Wars leave countries vulnerable and wrecked.

Brainwashing runs deep in society though, that will countless times dehumanize males and even agree with your comments. Yet they still cry muhsoggyknee.

 

[GymWolf]

I'm a martial artist and I care for my body to not grow to much muscles: it would slow me down, and I wouldn't be able to hit quickly, dodge or parry.
So I think the way Ellie dodges and hits with her knife is fine, even aloy with her sting would be way faster and precise than men. In fact you don't ever see Ellie strangle someone, I honestly think that someone more trained and faster (smaller) would be deadlier than the usual all muscles snorlax-speed thugs. Imagine picking up a fight with someone from Asia, they usually are smaller, but really keen on martial arts: you would acknowledge the punch that knocked you out when you wake up in hospital... If you do wake up.

...... Lara Croft is nonsense though....

With sting you mean her spear??

 

[BadBurger]

Who cares?

I'm another in this camp. Video games are clearly fantasy. Just enjoy them. Sure, a 5' 5" 100 pound girl will not surprise attack and kill a big grown man in real life. But it's not real life. It's a video game. So who cares?

 

[TMLT]

I get OPs point but honestly I feel like whats happened is we've been bombarded with this extremely cofrontational, unattractive, unappealing strong womyn BS so relentlessly in the last 5 years that we have now in turn become ultra sensitive to shit that wouldnt have bothered us before, its actually lowered peoples tolerance. Before all this we had Lara, Samus, Jill, Claire, tons of female fighting game characters, Fear Effect, that chick from Dino Crisis whos name I cant remember, Cheryl from SH3, Jade from Beyond Good & Evil etc etc, and we didnt bat an eyelid, because it didnt come across like part of a very forced and systematic agenda.

 

[MayauMiao]

My point is, yes, make games with female leads as much as you like (though vast majority of AAA gamers are male) but put them in realistic scenarios that don’t always necessarily have to include melee violence because it just feels off.

I prefer female lead with great ASSets. Screw realism because video games.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

OP, please go watch the movie called SALT with Angelina Jolie. Women are just as strong as men.

 

[TheContact]

What's her name? Asking for a friend...

Polyana Viana

 

[Chiggs]

Terrible thread by a person with major “mommy” resentment issues. Seek a trained professional to help you work through the past before you grow up to be an unbearable asshole that will live in complete isolation, or end their life via a failed shooting spree in Santa Barbara.

 

[AphexTwunt]

You really need to be a sad fucking specimen to get your jimmies rustled by this.

Games are about pretending and suspension of belief..... And fun.

FFS

 

[Tomeru]

I get OPs point but honestly I feel like whats happened is we've been bombarded with this extremely cofrontational, unattractive, unappealing strong womyn BS so relentlessly in the last 5 years that we have now in turn become ultra sensitive to shit that wouldnt have bothered us before, its actually lowered peoples tolerance. Before all this we had Lara, Samus, Jill, Claire, tons of female fighting game characters, Fear Effect, that chick from Dino Crisis whos name I cant remember, Cheryl from SH3, Jade from Beyond Good & Evil etc etc, and we didnt bat an eyelid, because it didnt come across like part of a very forced and systematic agenda.

Lmao that is so wrong on so many levels... Grow some balls please.

 

[Senua]

men are physically stronger than women yes...but women are hotter and can distract men with their pendulous bosoms, it all equals out on the field

 

[K.N.W.]

...you made me spit out my tea you fuck!

You wouldn't believe that I've beaten something more than a few guys way bigger and stronger than me (in challenges)*. And that Pitt/Lee scene is exactly proving my point, you don't just hit somebody, you lure him into hitting you, protect youserlf and reverse the situation. Once you get hitten hard or in a weak spot, the normal reaction is to succumb to pain, leaving a lot of room for the opponent to keep hitting. Many don't how easy it is, but if someone is punching you, the stronger he is(read: SLOWER), the easier it is to counter his attack and throw him on the ground, you don't need to be that strong since he's the one applying all the force that would make him eventually fly. Since Ellie uses melee wepons, I don't think it's so strange for her to dodge faster and then counter with a deadly blade, especially since she kills for a living. I'm watching again some bits of Horizon (it has been a looong time), and yes probably a weaker individual wouldn't be able to resist such strong attacks, but trust me women can be deadly in combat too. All of this of course is possible if and only if: they don't get hit first and they are trained enough. I believe speed is more essential in combat rather than brute force. Sorry for being explicit, but my martial art mixes as much styles and combat ranges as possible (biting, LOL), some years ago some guys even traveled to USA to train for shooting
Obviously, since this is what you are all thinking about, a man punching a woman usually takes her directly to coma, but aggressors in general, due to the adrenaline rush, don't think about the possible response from the target, so there's still a chance. And to use such speeds, you need to have a sharp mind and train yourself daily, plus you must have motivation: getting beaten since you were 8 years old, having Neogaf laugh at you, feeling the rush to protect Joel and the likes.

With sting you mean her spear??

Yes, I've missed a line and misread weapon's list, sorry.

EDIT: I'm seeing things today sorry xD

 

[Shai-Tan]

I get OPs point but honestly I feel like whats happened is we've been bombarded with this extremely cofrontational, unattractive, unappealing strong womyn BS so relentlessly in the last 5 years that we have now in turn become ultra sensitive to shit that wouldnt have bothered us before, its actually lowered peoples tolerance. Before all this we had Lara, Samus, Jill, Claire, tons of female fighting game characters, Fear Effect, that chick from Dino Crisis whos name I cant remember, Cheryl from SH3, Jade from Beyond Good & Evil etc etc, and we didnt bat an eyelid, because it didnt come across like part of a very forced and systematic agenda.

I can understand hypersensitivity but the way some argued in here it's more like "they made me be a bigot". There's a dude still posting in this thread who is a full throated male chauvinist that if it was about race would probably make a lot of people uncomfortable.

 

[Sygma]

Tomb Raider, TLOU, Horizon are just a few examples of games (I know there are more but these stuck to me) I played this gen where you’re made to believe that physically significantly weaker sex can overpower hordes of men like they are joke. I don’t mind having female leads but it does create huge ludonarrative dissonance in my head.

So I’m playing modern Tomb Raider for the first time since it‘s PS Plus monthly game and notion that she can just strangle big muscle men with her bow like it’s nothing is absurd. It doesn’t work. I know people will mention how it’s also not realistic that Nathan Drake can gun down hundreds of people in his games but I think about it this way: if he can win in a single gunfight against 1 man it’s realistic in people’s minds that he can win in multiple ones.
Now, chances of any female winning in a single fight against physically larger and stronger men in real life is very small. Maybe through some trick or cleverness but not likely. Yet you can see what Ellie does or Lara or Alloy or anyone else.

I’m not emphasizing skill with guns because, obviously, females can be almost just as good there (although also not likely) or in cases where your enemies are zombies like in Resident Evil or similar games.

My point is, yes, make games with female leads as much as you like (though vast majority of AAA gamers are male) but put them in realistic scenarios that don’t always necessarily have to include melee violence because it just feels off.

I think you should play Horizon to trigger your anxiety even further man

 

[JimmyRustler]

Who cares?

Plenty of games have male leads who aren't muscle men, who then are able to defeat huge muscle men in the same way.

99% of games aren't attempting to be realistic simulations.

True. Question's though why we keep getting more female protags but standard NPC enemies are mostly still men. Or would that be unrealistic?

For me personally only BioShock Infinite comes to mind that had quite a few female thugs running around.

 

[mcz117chief]

Oh it's a nice reference to the raider of the lost ark, you know the brawl between Indy and the giant german dude. Now I think of it it's quite a trope in the adventure movies and yes Uncharted is an Adventure movie with videogame layers in it.

Exactly. It is supposed to be a big, memorable, tough fight with a "boss". Indie and Nate were having big trouble beating their respective opponents but in other games you plow through these enemies like they are made of tissue paper, whether you are a man or a woman, and it looks ridiculous.

I'm a martial artist and I care for my body to not grow to much muscles: it would slow me down, and I wouldn't be able to hit quickly, dodge or parry.

Bruh...no. Example 1 (fast climbers, extremely muscular), example 2 (a decathlon athlete, very muscular), example 3 (now go and tell me Dwayne Johnson is slow). Muscles never slow you down, good Lord, they are the ones that make you move!

 

[M1chl]

Not sure if this a new fancy woke language, but "females" sounds weird.