MisterBrimstone
Member
You should see Amecia OP. The is gold medalist on the slingshot. A thing of beauty.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
When are we gonna stop pretending that females can be just as effective in combat as males?
- Thread starter Sander Cohen
- Start date
- Opinion Drama
captainraincoat
Banned
Yeah...rona central
im all for strong females but there is certainly alot of people that would blindly believe articles and shoddy scientific data and put other women at risk
Back to the game side
I loved actually playing as Abbie is LOU2 but hated her fucking storyline and arc
They had an opportunity to really craft a strong story behind her but instead pushed the social justice narrative in front to cover the shitty writing
Did they explain why abbie got so jacked?...they walked by a Gym and did not even link in a single thing back to her appearance and love of the iron
i would of loved to see her in some sort of sarah conner arc where she goes from victim to basically hunter killer...but they explored none of that
we just get that shitty part at the start and then we are led along the path that shes a nice person
Great Movies such as Aliens didnt rely on social justice crap to get the message across that Ripley was a badass
games should be like that also
Tell a great story and if its a woman then pat on the back
Jon Neu
Banned
Keihart
Member
For all the shit some throw at TLoU2, there you have a good example of 2 female characters acting according to their physical strengths, or at least to a degree. With Ellie being nimble and sneaky; Abby moving like a truck but hitting like one too.
I do agree with you that we need more unique heroes in games and gameplay can serve characterization, but when they are only holding guns it's kinda pointless, a bullet it's a bullet. And when we are in fantasy/sci-fi anything goes too so it is kinda pointless there too. I'm sure there is a middle ground to be achieved somewhere tho.
In general , there are not many game protagonists that use their witts to fight, most of the times it's dexterity or strenght.
captainraincoat
Banned
Megatron
Member
Right. A man could do it with his bare hands.
Apocryphon
Member
Olympic athletic records tell us enough...
That said... Rhonda Rousey, Amanda Nunes, or Thug Rose would make vast swathes of the male population squeal, even if they wouldn't be able to compete against their male equivalents (say ranked top 10 fighters).
That we see these things in films or games is one thing... I have no issues there whatsoever, it's not real... the issue is when people actually buy into it and thing it's a level playing field in the real world. We have gendered sports for a reason. I'm happy to move to mixed gender sports teams though... see how it works out.
That said... Rhonda Rousey, Amanda Nunes, or Thug Rose would make vast swathes of the male population squeal, even if they wouldn't be able to compete against their male equivalents (say ranked top 10 fighters).
That we see these things in films or games is one thing... I have no issues there whatsoever, it's not real... the issue is when people actually buy into it and thing it's a level playing field in the real world. We have gendered sports for a reason. I'm happy to move to mixed gender sports teams though... see how it works out.
Shai-Tan
Banned
funny thing though that weight classes exist for a reason but no ones making threads worrying that little dudes learning martial arts will get a false impression that they are not going to get ktfo if they pick a fight. I’m pretty sure the fear about women getting ktfo because they think they’re tough is invented through cherry picking fringe too-online opinions
IYAOYAS2019
Member
If this was REEEEEEEEEsetera. lol
IYAOYAS2019
Member
This woman could kick the shit out of a lot of guys.
She would be the exception, not the rule though.
Nickolaidas
Member
Definitely not ONE man.
EDIT: And we have no clue whether the females actually lend a hand or not vs the mammoths.
Last edited:
Kdad
Member
sol_bad
Member
MiyazakiHatesKojima
Banned
/thread.
anothertech
Member
There's some suspention of disbelief required.
Which is why dual pistol Laura will always be queen. Even though unlimited bullets in my desert eagles also doesn't make sense haha.
Which is why dual pistol Laura will always be queen. Even though unlimited bullets in my desert eagles also doesn't make sense haha.
Phunkydiabetic
Banned
Apocryphon
Member
You might very well be right, but I wouldn't close the door on the idea that just as people buy into other rediculous notions perpetuated by popular media, the same can apply here.
I played TLOU2 and enjoyed it. I couldn't care less about Abby being the protagonist or Ellie (who has to weigh about 110lbs soaking wet) being able to casually slaughter large men. I don't give a shit. It's an excellent game and attracted lots of unfair hate. But, while the arguments from the overly sensitive and insecure "butch womanz in ma games!!!" clowns are pathetic, some of the counter arguments are also laughable.
Yes, there are women who look like Abby. Yes, there are women who would seriously fuck up 99% of GAF posters. Yes there are badass combat athletes that would likely be served very well by their physique and training in a post-apocalyptic world... but let's not pretend that its anything close to a majority or anywhere near the average.
S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
What a load of crap. There is a reason we have MMA separated by weight/gender.
Psykodad
Banned
All the proof you need.
She would beat the living shit out of 99,9% of male Gaf.
Edit:
Or maybe we should get more historical, pic of a female samurai:
Thinking trained and highly skilled females can't go up against men is plain retarded and only claimed by men with absolutely no proper fighting training/experience and/or too much testosterone.
Last edited:
Typically, I'm fairly anti-feminist agenda. There's a lot of nonsense propaganda out there (that unfortunately most people my age buy into) that fully leverages our culture's obsession with victim porn... But this thread is silly.
While I agree that there is a trend in recent video games to show women as bad-ass killing machines -- we can discuss director's intentions on an individual basis in most cases.
This is a massive generalization based on a clear bias.
Yes, women are, on average, weaker than men.
But child wizards have no business fighting peak-power evil magicians either.
These narratives are fun not in spite of the ridiculous premises, but because of them.
Humans have had an obsession with the David vs. Goliath archetype for as long as we've had stories. Weak nerd wins against the strong bully. Fleshy men defeat the invincible machines. One teenager destroys an authoritarian regime.
I don't see this as any different.
We can accept that women are weaker than men physically and still root for the tiny girl to beat the living shit out of muscle-headed henchmen. It just requires faith in the story and a tiny bit of suspension of disbelief.
You're playing a game, not about the average woman, but about the most in-humanly badass specimen in that universe. Politics is irrelevant here. That's the premise of the game. If you enter the experience primarily looking for political sleights -- you'll miss the forest for the trees. You put yourself in a position to write off entire experiences because one small element of the plot rubs your political tendies the wrong way.
It's like your grandpa talking shit about your favorite movie because a kid defeats the evil empire.
"There's no way that snot-nosed brat could bring down an entire empire."
Somehow, that wouldn't diminish your enjoyment of the movie. That's just a silly criticism.
But, if you were particularly biased against younger generations....
While I agree that there is a trend in recent video games to show women as bad-ass killing machines -- we can discuss director's intentions on an individual basis in most cases.
This is a massive generalization based on a clear bias.
Yes, women are, on average, weaker than men.
But child wizards have no business fighting peak-power evil magicians either.
These narratives are fun not in spite of the ridiculous premises, but because of them.
Humans have had an obsession with the David vs. Goliath archetype for as long as we've had stories. Weak nerd wins against the strong bully. Fleshy men defeat the invincible machines. One teenager destroys an authoritarian regime.
I don't see this as any different.
We can accept that women are weaker than men physically and still root for the tiny girl to beat the living shit out of muscle-headed henchmen. It just requires faith in the story and a tiny bit of suspension of disbelief.
You're playing a game, not about the average woman, but about the most in-humanly badass specimen in that universe. Politics is irrelevant here. That's the premise of the game. If you enter the experience primarily looking for political sleights -- you'll miss the forest for the trees. You put yourself in a position to write off entire experiences because one small element of the plot rubs your political tendies the wrong way.
It's like your grandpa talking shit about your favorite movie because a kid defeats the evil empire.
"There's no way that snot-nosed brat could bring down an entire empire."
Somehow, that wouldn't diminish your enjoyment of the movie. That's just a silly criticism.
But, if you were particularly biased against younger generations....
Last edited:
This woman could kick the shit out of a lot of guys. There's plenty of women out there that would fare better in combat than a man would. If all things were equal, probably not, but not everything in life is equal. Besides that, it's a video game, not real life. Some suspension of disbelief is required to have a good time.
The best female fighter in the world would get her ass kicked by the worst and smallest male UFC fighter
A lot less would kill flimsy gaf male population, this thread it’s the embodiment of snowflake screeching.
All the proof you need.
She would beat the living shit out of 99,9% of male Gaf.
Still better than ERA tho
Well put
Top 10? Try top 1000. There is a video of Ronda getting schooled by a 15 year old chubby high school boy. The worst male UFC fighter would beat all three back to back to back without breaking a sweat. You are massively downplaying the gap
Last edited:
Revolutionary
Member
If you're roided up like Abby, it's believable... but then you wonder where the hell she got the roids from in the post-apocalypse.
Nadine in Uncharted 4, however, was absolute nonsense. They basically did the same thing in the Watchmen TV show, where 50 year old Regina King was kicking 20-something year old asses.
Nadine in Uncharted 4, however, was absolute nonsense. They basically did the same thing in the Watchmen TV show, where 50 year old Regina King was kicking 20-something year old asses.
There are few things more pathetic than bragging about the girls around you and your bar fights on the internet. Yeah yeah...I know you " have been training MMA all your life". Bullshit! You can't fight buddy and those girls are not as nice looking as you want people to believeYou are an exact copy pasta, of the beta males that get mad at me for having nice looking women around lol.
Same drunk people that make the mistake of baiting me into fights.
Dont mind me while I put you on ignore, for all I know im having a discussion with a 12 year old - and I see very little Merritt in prolonging my exchange with you. Have a nice day though.
All the proof you need.
She would beat the living shit out of 99,9% of male Gaf.
Edit:
Or maybe we should get more historical, pic of a female samurai:
Thinking trained and highly skilled females can't go up against men is plain retarded and only claimed by men with absolutely no proper fighting training/experience and/or too much testosterone.
This type of thinking is teetering on ideological as well.
Realistically, a very well trained woman could probably beat 50% of men (especially those bordering on the smaller side, lower levels of testosterone, etc.). But you seriously underestimate the impact of size, muscle mass, strength, and bone density. There have been many studies done on average strength differences between men and women. There are even weight lifting statistics available for women's divisions that you can use as an objective tool of measurement of peak performance. The strongest women in the world are roughly half as strong as the strongest men in the world.
That's a massive difference. And that's not taking into account other bio-mechanical advantages (on average, faster reflexes, more muscular endurance, thicker skulls and jaws, etc.).
I used to box in high school. The gym that I went to had a lot of female students (one of the coaches was a really inspiring woman). In my first week of starting, I injured one of the best female boxers at the gym during sparring. I went a little bit softer than I would normally do against the guys at the gym, yet I still almost knocked her out with a well-placed jab. That's when I realized that male strength is no joke. There's a reason why, as a society, we're so strongly against domestic abuse. There's a very clear, physical power imbalance.
MastaKiiLA
Member
It's a piece of fiction. Who the hell cares if it's realistic? There's very little realism in video games to begin with. Why does gender require any additional suspension of disbelief than believing a human being can lug around a warehouse worth of items in a fanny pack?
Kumomeme
Member
thats why i love videogame and movie..we can has baddass female while remain slim with twig arm, pretty face
its not real..people play because they want to escape reality and experience something not possible in reality
you think shorty gimli in lord of the ring actually can fight in war kill lot of taller muscular orcs in reality? no need to actually bother with this fact..just enjoy the damn thing
but given men or women..anyone with proper tool and proper training enough to bring danger..atleast this presented in film and videogame...realistic or not..no need to bother to restrict creativity for sake of realism
give knife to old lady..if she stab a man at back, she still could kill despite the muscle mass differences lol
its not real..people play because they want to escape reality and experience something not possible in reality
you think shorty gimli in lord of the ring actually can fight in war kill lot of taller muscular orcs in reality? no need to actually bother with this fact..just enjoy the damn thing
but given men or women..anyone with proper tool and proper training enough to bring danger..atleast this presented in film and videogame...realistic or not..no need to bother to restrict creativity for sake of realism
give knife to old lady..if she stab a man at back, she still could kill despite the muscle mass differences lol
Last edited:
Apocryphon
Member
I'll tell you what I'd rather see more o going forward... enemies that aren't all 200lb military looking guys. I want to a greater diversity in human enemy designs.
Apocryphon
Member
Psykodad
Banned
I agree with you, I'm definitely not ignoring natural differences, as we're basically still "hubters and gatherers" by our very nature.
But what you ignore, is that in games most of the violence is with the use of weapons well. Weapons reduce the difference between sexes even more and rely even more on skill and tactics. Firearms and ranged weapons even take sexes completely out of the equation.
Fact of the matter is, while I never said sex doesn't matter, it isn't unrealistic in any way to have strong females fighters in games, slaughtering men, even if they're "sexy".
Women like Abby in TLOU are a realistic depiction of such women, who do exist in the real world. That goes for feminine females as well.
Edit:
I even think that when you put your average male boxer against your average female MMA-fighter, the boxer would have a real tough time.
There are too many factors that come into play to state that females can't be as effective as men.
Last edited:
Lanrutcon
Member
Yes, because MMA is the be all of combat and female soldiers that can't bend most of the male population like envelopes don't exist.
Holy shit is this thread is making the forum look a bunch of basement troglodytes that only experience the outside world through a browser. We should be better than this.
S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
Kay. Why is there a woman's division in every sport in the world then?
Lanrutcon
Member
Your country judges combat efficiency based on sports?
Psykodad
Banned
Because like you said, it's just sports.
Sports are in no way a realistic depiction of actual fighting in life or death situations.
That's why most traditional martial artist don't fare well in competitive sports, with all kind of rules and restrictions in place, taking away like 80% of whatever is being taught in traditional martial arts system, which were design to literally kill your opponent.
Last edited:
eyesabitdull
Banned
IT'S A FUCKING VIDEO GAME.
Jesus effing christ, you guys.
This is getting out of hand, and borderline sexist.
Shit like this is why feminists are getting their way.
Jesus effing christ, you guys.
This is getting out of hand, and borderline sexist.
Shit like this is why feminists are getting their way.
Paracelsus
Member
No it's not, being quiet about this crap is why you got Abby.
Last edited:
eyesabitdull
Banned
I'm sorry, what was wrong with Abby?
I mean, I was all gung ho and completely on the hating bandwagon when the leaks sprung out and it was alleged that we'd be playing a transwoman on steroids to kill Ellie - but that was nowhere to be true.
And when i actually played the game, i failed to see a single problem with her character.
She's a buff chick, and....so what?
There was far more to her personality, motivations, and personal struggle that made her become less of a forced diversity check box and actually a well-thought out character. And, if you played the game, you would actually see her looking like a normal sized human by the end of it - signalling that her stature throughout the game was more of a result of her training and her physical strength being tested over and over again during combat, and exploration.
Unless you didn't play the game....then, okay, i'll leave you to your own assumptions and beliefs.
S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
MMA and boxing are all sports. I used MMA as a clear example of how biology works. Are you gonna sit there and tell me you truly believe there is no difference biologically between men and women and just call out misogyny when somebody asks you a question? Why entire countries use men as soldiers? Thread is dumb AF but so was your Amazonian comment and comes off as somebody that doesn't have a grasp on reality. Keep telling people they should leave their basements as well that one is always classy and you don't come off as a danger hair at all.
Paracelsus
Member
Abby looks and fights like a man because Naughty Dog wanted to get rid of Joel to replace him with Abby but they knew a woman built like Ellie fighting like Joel would look comical to anybody sane, so they just buffed up a woman to be as big as a man, and then made up excuses about training for revenge.
It was gameplay reasons, they knew a woman using barbaric "mano y mano" melee on men would look incredibly stupid, so they went for the Assassin's Creed approach: man and woman look like a man, built like a man, fight like a man.
There's no problem if you are fine with it, the problem is you coming here and acting like nothing is wrong when you're factually wrong.
EDIT, for the people posting stupid stuff about samurais and MMA:
Last edited:
Psykodad
Banned
Why don't you just tag me next time?
I never denied inherent power differences.
But fine, want to use Abby as an example? She is built realistically for a buff woman, so she has power. 90% of the time, she's using weapons.
And even if you want to discuss a hypothetical situation where she would be fist-fighting a stronger male opponent, all it would take is even a lucky punch to the temple, forehead or chin to make him see black or feel dizzy/disoriented for a second or 2, which would be enough for Abby to grab his head and use all her bodyweight to smash it into a wall behind him once or twice, elbow him full force on the top of his skull and ram a knee right into his face.
Something awfully similar to what you see her doing in TLOU2.
So much variables and hypothetical situations that come into play to make a case for female fighting efficiency, or fighting efficiency in general, it's ridiculous to focus on very specific statistics that only represent the tiniest fraction of everything that comes into play during a life or death fight.
Maybe best to try and be a bit less narrow-minded.
Last edited: