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[lostinblue]

Vista was an OS built for computers that wouldn’t go on sale for another three or four years. They were doing too much for the hardware at the time.

They were chasing after MacOS that was doing everything Vista was trying to, thing is Apple ran a clean kernel they were constantly updating and deprecating stuff in, making it lean enough and where apps had to be developed as the operating system allowed (they mostly had or at least were encouraged to use stuff like the included gui libraries and os services, much like they did with iOS later). This meant in 2005 OSX Tiger had resolution independence working, minimizing and maximizing windows was lag free, ran at 60 fps and was handled by the GPU using OpenGL on textures even if the system was being hit hard (this of course helped in making it seem responsive, even if it wasn't); they also introduced Spotlight which is the intelligent search function with indexing (that, at the time of release was already more advanced than the one in windows currently is, with a thesaurus, calculator, measure and money converting tolls built in) and the long deprecated dashboard that inexplicably is a new feature in Windows 11.

Being on MacOS when Vista happened was kinda fun as they were trying to mimic everything that made their competition work, without understanding how to get there. Arguably it felt like being a generation apart, and it sure doesn't seem like Microsoft crossed that river yet, everything that was true back then still is, but props to them to having kept at it for so long without breaking the mold.

Thing with Core Image was that apple had a walled garden where every machine they sold had a gpu and enough video RAM for it to support Quartz/Core Image, they started preparing for that 2/3 years before it was a reality whereas Microsoft decided that aero would force people and manufacturers to spend more on GPU's.

Doesn't help that every part of Windows was, as usual the definition of feature creeping, disjointed at best, hacky and a bunch of pieces without a overlying structure at worst.

Quick question: if I upgrade to Windows 11, should I bite the bullet and do a full clean install via windows installation media? Have any of you had trouble going from 10 to 11 the quick and dirty way? Old rule of thumb is always do a clean install for a new OS version.

I'd say you don't have to, the OS is too similar to Windows 10 for it the update to break something. I would update windows 10 as far as it goes (or at least all the way up until the end of last year) and then update to windows 11.

 

[twilo99]

I've updated 2 machines from 10 to 11 without doing a clean install and they are working fine

 

[sendit]

Installed when it launched and never looked back. It's fine for probably 98% of daily use cases for the average user. Browsing the internet and playing games. I can't imagine a situation where even the most demanding user is going to miss X feature because it'll break their workflow.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

It fucking suck not to have competition in this space.

 

[Kiya's Guard]

Been using 11 on a new laptop it came with. It's still a fucking beta, and I had to modify things just to get a couple things how they were. AND THE CLASSIC TASKBAR IS STILL NOT AN OPTION

 

[Ocean Dweller]

Been using 11 on a new laptop it came with. It's still a fucking beta, and I had to modify things just to get a couple things how they were. AND THE CLASSIC TASKBAR IS STILL NOT AN OPTION

ugh how is that still not an option?

 

[Codeblew]

Vista was SUCH AN IMPROVEMENT over XP. People loved W7 because they skipped Vista, but most of the cool stuff in W7 came from Vista anyway.

Back to topic: Did a clean install for W11 on my 5700 XT / R5 3600 PC. Works just as fine as W10. Played DX9, DX12, Vulkan and PCSX2, RPCS3 and Dolphin. Everything works just as fine as they did on W10.

I disagree. Vista was a buggy piece of shit when it released. They backported the bug fixed code from vista to W7. W7 was the stable version.

 

[nkarafo]

Is there a reason to upgrade at all? What does 11 have that 10 doesn't? I don't want to upgrade and lose some features i got used to if there's not a big improvement or two to compensate.

Edit: Wow, that right click menu is completely stupid. It needs another click to bring the useful stuff out? WTF? Why?

 

[AREYOUOKAY?]

Everything being at the middle angers me greatly. There has to be some legit way to get everything to look like Windows 7 did right? Though I guess reading through the comments here there isn't.

 

[RoboFu]

Everything being at the middle angers me greatly. There has to be some legit way to get everything to look like Windows 7 did right? Though I guess reading through the comments here there isn't.

Huh? Are you talking about the application bar at the bottom? its very easy to align it back to the left. its just a setting.

 

[64bitmodels]

Vista was SUCH AN IMPROVEMENT over XP.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about lmaooo

 

[64bitmodels]

I hope they fixed explorer with 11, with windows 10, windows explorer LOVES to slow down after the pc has been open and running for a while.

 

[Ocean Dweller]

Everything being at the middle angers me greatly. There has to be some legit way to get everything to look like Windows 7 did right? Though I guess reading through the comments here there isn't.

StartAllBack to fix all Windows 11 deal-breaking UI issues

StartAllBack restores taskbar, start menu, context menus, explorer, sanity, style and order!

www.startallback.com

 

[Filben]

Is there a reason to upgrade at all?

I myself see little to no reason. Never touch a running system (up to a point, of course, otherwise I'd still be having Windows 7 probably). Windows 10 is stil getting security updates.

But serious, if you're satisfied, your software apps and games are running well there's a higher chance you'll break than gain anything. If repeated issues after major feature updates in the past isn't telling I don't know what to say. So many devs pushing releases as stable but it often feels like beta testing. It's nothing new, though and it's done for decades (remember how unstable Win95 and 98 were?).

I'd say let others test it, MS fix their shit and update to a release you're hearing less issues about.

Day one (in MS terms this also means year one) is rarely advisable, with games and software.

 

[LavitzSlambert]

Microsoft, stop trying to make Windows 11 happen. It’s not going to.

 

[Timeless One]

Since 22H2 is just a constant failure for me. Apps crashing, not working, performance problem until a patch which I got yesterday and etc. I like windoes 11. But h2 is just not stable. I expected Microsoft to atleast have stable version this time.

===========
It is also amazing that a software company like Microsoft cannot design a eye catching UI after 7. 8 and 10 were not good at all.11 is an improvement imo, but still I want something atleast on par with 7

 

[AREYOUOKAY?]

StartAllBack to fix all Windows 11 deal-breaking UI issues

StartAllBack restores taskbar, start menu, context menus, explorer, sanity, style and order!

www.startallback.com

I suppose that first picture example is what I'm after.

 

[nani17]

I suppose that first picture example is what I'm after.

I bought startallback day one it's really good. It puts back the old style menu. You can pick windows 7 up to a modern 11 style start menu which is better than the MS version.

Also it puts back the old right click menu.

 

[Goalus]

Microsoft, stop trying to make Windows 11 happen. It’s not going to.

They just need to wait until they can release Windows 12.
It will take off, like XP, 7, and 10. 11 could see a fate similar to Vista and 8.

 

[Melon Husk]

I bought startallback day one it's really good. It puts back the old style menu. You can pick windows 7 up to a modern 11 style start menu which is better than the MS version.

Also it puts back the old right click menu.

$5 app made by solo dev gives me the option to
-place the taskbar on the side or top
-the tried and tested "old" start menu with superior information density and usability
but a trillion dollar company can't do that because "it's too hard to code".

godsend for my laptop, the touch features on w11 actually work better with taskbar on the side.

 

[Bernkastel]

They just need to wait until they can release Windows 12.
It will take off, like XP, 7, and 10. 11 could see a fate similar to Vista and 8.

Not really.
ME - Bad
XP - Good
Vista - Bad
7 - Good
8 - Bad
8.1 - Good
10 - Bad
11 - Good

 

[nightmare-slain]

i had a few problems with Windows 11 but they are all gone now. I joined the beta channel to get 22H2 early and had no issues with it. I'm still stuck on the beta channel despite 22H2 officially releasing so i'm getting builds higher than what is released publicly. it's not causing any bother but i want to go back to the stable build but i will need to wait for the next major update so that could be a year from now! I really can't be arsed doing a clean install.

 

[Goalus]

Not really.
2000 - Bad
XP - Good
Vista - Bad
7 - Good
8 - Bad
8.1 - Good
10 - Bad
11 - Good

Was 8.1 really that much different from 8?
The OS history on both my private and my company computer is XP -> 7 -> 10.
I'd also argue that Windows 2000 was good.
However Windows ME was supposedly bad (never used it).

 

[Deanington]

No problems with any OS starting with ME and every os afterwards. Always updated and moved on. Team Vista btw.

 

[Celcius]

Not really.
2000 - Bad
XP - Good
Vista - Bad
7 - Good
8 - Bad
8.1 - Good
10 - Bad
11 - Good

Both windows 10 and 11 have been amazing.

 

[ksdixon]

Win11 still tie in all the system tray Icons?

All I wanna do is right click WiFi, tell it to troubleshoot connection.

On early Win11 it used to be a whole "thing"

 

[ksdixon]

Not really.
2000 - Bad
XP - Good
Vista - Bad
7 - Good
8 - Bad
8.1 - Good
10 - Bad
11 - Good

I know not everyone had a banging touchscreen Surface Pro in 2012-ish for vanilla Windows 8, but by gawd the hate for 8 is so fucking overblown!

"I want my Start Button", "I want my Start Menu", "I want these full-screen apps in a floating window...", "I want to boot directly to the desktop". Yes, MS could have made all of these toggle-able in the installation setup for 8, or been quicker with a patch instead of returning them for 8.1. But just the same, people could have spent 5 mins on Google to find Openshell or Startisback or WinAeroTeaker.

I'm fairly certain it was vanilla 8 that introduced the new singular copy file dialogue box for multiple actions; and a substantial reworking of Task Manager

 

[Bernkastel]

I'd also argue that Windows 2000 was good.
However Windows ME was supposedly bad (never used it).

My bad, I meant ME. I also mostly started with XP(but had seen my Dad use 95 before).

Was 8.1 really that much different from 8?

It mostly made some changes that people wanted with 8, like the Start button.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Been running Windows 11 since July without a single issue.

There's really no reason not to upgrade if you're interested in doing so, as they share the same core architecture. Any gaming performance differences on systems sharing the same settings will likely be within margin of error.

Same. After using it for some time, I like it.

It's much faster/snappier as well.

My Virtualization-based Security was off by default.

 

[Kazekage1981]

They need to bring back the acrylic/glass/aero theme and incorporate it in all parts of windows. Glad they put tabs for file explorer, but wtf with the context menus? Why do I need to click on more options for copy and paste among other things?

They also need better transition animations and improve the aesthetics of the overall visual quality to give it more of a 'pop' without bloating the OS RAM footprint.

 

[Melon Husk]

They need to bring back the acrylic/glass/aero theme and incorporate it in all parts of windows. Glad they put tabs for file explorer, but wtf with the context menus? Why do I need to click on more options for copy and paste among other things?

They also need better transition animations and improve the aesthetics of the overall visual quality to give it more of a 'pop' without bloating the OS RAM footprint.

Oh man I can't imagine how people without technical know-how deal with the new right click menu. There's a registry hack to bring back the old one, no need for external programs.

The icons on top are pure madness, don't they know what Fitt's law is anymore?

 

[adamosmaki]

I have been using 11 for 2 months now but honestly i probably should have stick to 10 for a bit more
The biggest downside is the damn start menu. Its a damn clusterf***k and nowhere as usable as windows 10
Another big downside is the right click button now when i want to get more context options like opening AMD drivers or using 7zip options i have to click show more options first and then do it which is moronic
There are also a few bugs here and there like the task manager that feels kinda laggy after the last update

 

[Spukc]

Is there a reason to upgrade at all? What does 11 have that 10 doesn't? I don't want to upgrade and lose some features i got used to if there's not a big improvement or two to compensate.

Edit: Wow, that right click menu is completely stupid. It needs another click to bring the useful stuff out? WTF? Why?

Nope i had 10% fps lost i some games going from 10 to 11

So i quickly reverted back

 

[ShirAhava]

Vista was SUCH AN IMPROVEMENT over XP. People loved W7 because they skipped Vista, but most of the cool stuff in W7 came from Vista anyway.

This is a fact I had a XP PC and a monster Vista rig back in 2007 and a XP rig and Vista rig well maintained right now

I'm sick of the XP nostalgia

That OS fucking sucked daily crashes up until SP2 and security was a joke honestly until as late as SP3

Vista was far better even at launch even with the driver issues and bloat

Vista SP2 was basically a nicer looking Windows 7

The Vista hate came from people installing it on their blue light special PIII/Y2K ready rigs from like 1999/2000 then yeah of course it
ran like absolute shit but that wasn't a Vista problem

 

[Xeaker]

I still can't disable auto login on windows 10 without putting a password LOL

 

[ZoukGalaxy]

Windows 11 is the new windows 8: let's completely fuck the user interface for the sack of doing it and let people beg for features available in Windows 10.

Wait Windows 12. Seriously.

 

[lostinblue]

This week Microsoft accidentally leaked the current interface they have in mind for Windows 12 (2024):

Source: https://www.windowscentral.com/soft...or-the-next-version-of-windows-at-ignite-2022

They leaked it when showing the new Microsoft 365 Office suite rebrand.

Super large useless bar on the bottom, rounded useless corners, top with clock, battery, wifi, search and... Weather.

I find it hard that anyone is paid to do a job this bad, let alone a team.

Also, what I've been saying all along about Bitlocker:

Microsoft says an Iranian state-sponsored threat group it tracks as DEV-0270 (aka Nemesis Kitten) has been abusing the BitLocker Windows feature in attacks to encrypt victims' systems.

Redmond's threat intelligence teams found that the group is quick to exploit newly disclosed security vulnerabilities and extensively uses living-off-the-land binaries (LOLBINs) in attacks.

This aligns with Microsoft's findings that DEV-0270 uses BitLocker, a data protection feature that provides full volume encryption on devices running Windows 10, Windows 11, or Windows Server 2016 and above.

Source: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/ne...kers-encrypt-windows-systems-using-bitlocker/

This was a clear vulnerability all along, since day one back in Windows 7. 1. Bitlocker encrypts everything, but it doesn't encrypt the decryption keys. 2. Any service with admin rights can run the bitlocker encryption command. I've seen fucking McAfee do it, without asking. A dang antivirus can decide to encrypt my HDD and go through with it without asking me. If that's so, so can malicious software.

I'm always flabbergasted that they never fix/improve anything on their own before disaster strikes.

Windows 11 being more secure for enforcing TPM and bitlocker my ass.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Windows 7 took care of business todays operating systems are all mind games, havoc and dealing with updates.

 

[nemiroff]

Everything being at the middle angers me greatly. There has to be some legit way to get everything to look like Windows 7 did right? Though I guess reading through the comments here there isn't.

You talking about the taskbar? Some of the people commenting on W11 doesn't have W11 and don't always know what they are talking about. It's been a while and a few updates since it launched.

 

[nemiroff]

They need to bring back the acrylic/glass/aero theme and incorporate it in all parts of windows. Glad they put tabs for file explorer, but wtf with the context menus? Why do I need to click on more options for copy and paste among other things?

What do you mean, the copy paste delete is there at the top in clear view..

But yeah I'm puzzled why f.ex. 7-zip is hidden behind "show more". But from what I've heard, for some apps to show in the context menu it's in the hands of the developers, IDK.

This week Microsoft accidentally leaked the current interface they have in mind for Windows 12 (2024):

Source: https://www.windowscentral.com/soft...or-the-next-version-of-windows-at-ignite-2022

They leaked it when showing the new Microsoft 365 Office suite rebrand.

Super large useless bar on the bottom, rounded useless corners, top with clock, battery, wifi, search and... Weather.

I find it hard that anyone is paid to do a job this bad, let alone a team.

Also, what I've been saying all along about Bitlocker:


Source: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/ne...kers-encrypt-windows-systems-using-bitlocker/

This was a clear vulnerability all along, since day one back in Windows 7. 1. Bitlocker encrypts everything, but it doesn't encrypt the decryption keys. 2. Any service with admin rights can run the bitlocker encryption command. I've seen fucking McAfee do it, without asking. A dang antivirus can decide to encrypt my HDD and go through with it without asking me. If that's so, so can malicious software.

I'm always flabbergasted that they never fix/improve anything on their own before disaster strikes.

Windows 11 being more secure for enforcing TPM and bitlocker my ass.

First of all, that screenshot is created by the urinalist, it is not created by Microsoft. Even the article states that fact. And as someone who works as a UiX developer and on a daily basis do prototype testing I can tell you with reasonable accuracy that that screenshot is taken out of context, that's not how it will look on a normal computer desktop. From what I'm reading they are just testing prototypes for better options for touch screen operation - And then the urinalist very well knows how he can stir up some clickbait drama by extrapolating it out of context.

 

[Edgelord79]

I honestly miss vista (with service packs)

Universality acknowledged as one of the worst windows releases even with service packs.

Not sure if this is a joke or not.

 

[rofif]

Universality acknowledged as one of the worst windows releases even with service packs.

Not sure if this is a joke or not.

It was good after service packs. Similar to 7 but better looking
Noy a joke.

 

[lostinblue]

First of all, that screenshot is created by the urinalist, it is not created by Microsoft. Even the article states that fact. And as someone who works as a UiX developer and on a daily basis do prototype testing I can tell you with reasonable accuracy that that screenshot is taken out of context, that's not how it will look on a normal computer desktop. From what I'm reading they are just testing prototypes for better options for touch screen operation - And then the urinalist very well knows how he can stir up some clickbait drama by extrapolating it out of context.

This is how it looked on the presentation:

It's the same thing. Doesn't change anything that I used the mockup made from the picture. Also, it's implied it's being tested like this for a while, not iterative at all, they might scrap it, but yeah, this is what they're testing and knowing Microsoft it's probably what you'll end up with if there isn't an outcry against it.

IMO, they're always trying to shoehorn "touch-ready" into their professional operating system suite, and even if they don't go this route, as long as they don't scrape that idea from their heads they'll always decrease Windows usability with a mouse. And I actually doubt windows on tablets will really takeoff against normal laptops/desktops and chromebooks that do the same thing but are cheaper.

Their pricing and software quality don't allow it for it to be a good fit for a mainstream tablet.

Just implement a tablet mode, that can look and feel like this, but don't redesign the operating system to operate like this travesti all the time.

Also note that it wasn't shown on a tablet or touch device.

 

[dave_d]

It was good after service packs. Similar to 7 but better looking
Noy a joke.

Got to third this. I know I posted this before but I had a PC build for me in 2008 at which point Vista had been out for a year. It had a Q6600, 2GB of ram and a Geforce 9600GT. Not a super high end PC at the time and Vista ran great on that. (I think I tried XP on that same machine, yeah Vista ran WAY better.)

 

[IFireflyl]

They need to bring back the acrylic/glass/aero theme and incorporate it in all parts of windows. Glad they put tabs for file explorer, but wtf with the context menus? Why do I need to click on more options for copy and paste among other things?

They also need better transition animations and improve the aesthetics of the overall visual quality to give it more of a 'pop' without bloating the OS RAM footprint.

Not that you should have to, but you can fix this in the registry.

1. Open Registry Editor.
2. At the top of Registry Editor (under File, Edit, View, et cetera), copy and paste the following path and hit Enter:
   • Computer\HKEY_CURRENT_USER\SOFTWARE\CLASSES\CLSID
3. Right-click CLSID in the left pane, then highlight New, and then select Key.
4. Name this key the following, including the brackets:
   • {86ca1aa0-34aa-4e8b-a509-50c905bae2a2}
5. Right-click this newly created key in the left pane, then highlight New, and then select Key.
6. Name this key the following:
   • InprocServer32
7. This new key (InprocServer32) should have a single registry setting inside of it titled (Default), and a Data value that shows "(value not set)". Double-click this item (or right-click it and select Modify), and then select OK without making any changes.
   • This should change the value from "(value not set)" to simply showing a blank value. This is what you want to see.
8. Reboot your computer.

With these steps you should get the Windows 10 context menu (the right-click menu) back. Alternatively, you can use one of the previously mentioned programs, or you can use a free program on GitHub called Explorer Patcher. This program can be found here:

GitHub - valinet/ExplorerPatcher: This project aims to enhance the working environment on Windows

This project aims to enhance the working environment on Windows - valinet/ExplorerPatcher

github.com

A list of features for this program can be found here:

All features

This project aims to enhance the working environment on Windows - valinet/ExplorerPatcher

github.com

As an aside, I don't get paid to advertise for Explorer Patcher. It was the first program I came across when I got a new laptop that had Windows 11 on it that let me customize the UI so that it functioned the way it did with Windows 10. It has been frequently updated, and I have never had an issue with it. Having said that, there is a very specific way to add items to the Windows 10 version of the start menu, and that did confuse me initially. That's the only negative I have encountered in using Explorer Patcher, but once you figure out how to do it it's easy.

 

[twilo99]

I don't know why but on my gaming machine with win10 (21H2) its telling me that direct storage is not supported

 

[Soren01]

Auto HDR is very good. There will always be those users who insist that the previous version is the best ever made.

 

[nemiroff]

This is how it looked on the presentation:

It's the same thing. Doesn't change anything that I used the mockup made from the picture. Also, it's implied it's being tested like this for a while, not iterative at all, they might scrap it, but yeah, this is what they're testing and knowing Microsoft it's probably what you'll end up with if there isn't an outcry against it.

IMO, they're always trying to shoehorn "touch-ready" into their professional operating system suite, and even if they don't go this route, as long as they don't scrape that idea from their heads they'll always decrease Windows usability with a mouse. And I actually doubt windows on tablets will really takeoff against normal laptops/desktops and chromebooks that do the same thing but are cheaper.

Their pricing and software quality don't allow it for it to be a good fit for a mainstream tablet.

Just implement a tablet mode, that can look and feel like this, but don't redesign the operating system to operate like this travesti all the time.

Nah they won't. They learnt from Metro (which later turned into Fluent Design System instead), although it wasn't primarily a touch screen interface per se, but the Swiss type graphic design felt ill fit for a desktop computer.. These early screens don't have much value unless the context directly from MS is attached. Anyway there's nothing in the way in 2022 to have both touch and mouse navigation grounded in the same OS. It only matters how you deal with the implementation (task bar to be taller with more air and less clutter when touch f.ex.). Design goals before completing a design system is not the same as the complete look and feel, it just tries to meet design goals (which is a moving target, hence prototyping) set for navigation philosophy, often different from content ready designs. Our final designs with including skinning (which we do much faster than the prototyping phase) looks very different much for the same reason. Design is a beautiful chaotic symphony. And it moves in wave of infinite versions internally, workshops, countless for customers, user testing, many for exhibitions, many for PR, many just for fun, experiments, some for the higher ups etc. etc.

I don't know why but on my gaming machine with win10 (21H2) its telling me that direct storage is not supported

As far as I know direct storage is not supported in Windows 10, only 11 right?

 

[M1chl]

Install this shit and it does not matter if you have 10 or 11. I need eleven for the job, so I have no chance of staying on Windows 10 (mainly game dev type of stuff), Windows 11 feels like 10 with border radius on windows after small tweak. but we the new feature for gaming build in, not bolted on.

 

[twilo99]

As far as I know direct storage is not supported in Windows 10, only 11 right?

I thought they backtracked and said it would work on 10 as well but I could be wrong.

It doesn't matter I guess its time to upgrade anyway. AutoHDR is also nice...

I have 11 on my other two machines and its working perfectly fine.