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Worldwide Vita Sales Revealed in Sony Earnings Call (1.8 million)
- Thread starter Deadly Cyclone
- Start date
Generalizing handhelds for everyone isn't the right way to think of this, imo. It's like saying the N-Gage could survive if it was released tomorrow.
If anything, and I believe their advertising goes along with this, I see the Vita as a portable multimedia device, and not primarily a dedicated gaming machine.
Koroviev
Member
I don't know why people are saying the Vita should be part phone. Have you seen the Internet Browser? It's abysmal. I love the Vita, but I don't think people looking for an all-in-one phone give a damn about "core" experiences. They just want to play the latest iteration of Angry Birds and browse Facebook.
As do I. I use it for streaming, anime, podcasts and games. For Internet and email, I have a tablet.
As do I. I use it for streaming, anime, podcasts and games. For Internet and email, I have a tablet.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Agreed. Let me specify: Gaming is the primary focus of the 3DS and Vita. And their secondary attributes are also a wonderful reason why they're a good purchase.
Can you listen to podcasts/audio content *while* gaming? That's one of my secret joys of iphone gaming. I'd toss a podcast on and play a hack n slash while listening. Good stuff.
Also, Netflix looks amazing on that screen.
Koroviev
Member
The Vita screen is wonderful for anime. I'd rather watch anime on Vita than on my PC. The Crunchyroll app needs to be available on Vita
Dacvak
No one shall be brought before our LORD David Bowie without the true and secret knowledge of the Photoshop. For in that time, so shall He appear.
Dude, that's just not true. I know plenty of people who've graduated from their DS or PSP to an iPhone, with no urge to buy anything else. Those people are often referred to as casual gamers, or gamers who simply don't play often. They made up a huge percentage of DS and PSP owners.
Anyone who thinks that iOS devices haven't had a significant impact on dedicated gaming portable sales is just fooling themselves.
Now, it's not like that's something easily measured, but it's certainly a significant figure.
outunderthestars
Banned
Not true at all. The business man and grandma bought DS's last generation. My daughter had a DS last generation. Now she has an ipod touch. I think that is true for alot of the DS/Wii maketplace. They moved on and into the iOS ecosystem.
You don't sell 90 million DS's without reaching outside the gaming market. Nintendo and Sony are not going to be able to do so this generation without some piece of software that will actually make someone want to buy one.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
It charted at #5 in NPD the month of its release. Sold like 350k.
shinra-bansho
Member
In Japan.
I didn't say it wouldn't sell. I just doubt it will move hardware.
staticneuron
Member
Doubt that. The price of the handheld and the titles available really didn't lend to the PSP being a casual friendly console at all. The DS I can believe but not the PSP.
I wonder why so many seriously believe that people who made the conscious decision to purchase the handhelds all of a sudden will opt for gaming on a tablet. There is a larger disconnect between the two than people are acknowledging.
Dacvak
No one shall be brought before our LORD David Bowie without the true and secret knowledge of the Photoshop. For in that time, so shall He appear.
It certainly applies more to the DS, no doubt. But even if that wasn't the case, the gap between Vita games and high quality iOS games is small in the eyes of non-hardcore/veteran gamers, or however you want to label them. There are plenty of people out there who see GTA3, all the EA Sports games, and the higher quality projects Gameloft pushes out, and they just don't make the distinction between truly high-quality games on the Vita/3DS and stuff on the app store.
Now, this probably isn't even the majority of people out there who are exposed to both, but it's still a significant enough figure to impact console sales.
Put more succinct, there are people out there who have an iPhone already, and don't see the need for a Vita/3DS because they believe the iOS titles are as good as anything else.
Mammoth Jones
Member
I mean, I own a 3DS, a Vita, and an iPhone 4.
I've gamed on all three. But while there's *SOME* overlap it's no where near as bad as many are alleging. Maybe it is growing with kids these days growing up gaming on an iphone/ipod instead of a gameboy.
But my point is simply there is still a viable market for both types of games. There are those out there that want high production value portable games.
OccamsBlender
Member
How to save vita:
I'm rather surprised Sony didn't just wait and launch the Vita with MHP3G. That would have guaranteed at least 3 million day 1.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Do we have -any- tangible data to confirm this one way or another? I get what you're saying and undoubtedly it DOES occur. Shit, it occured to me for about 3 months when I upgraded from an iPhone 3G to an iPhone 4 when 3ds/vita wasn't out, but the real question is to what extent?
I just think it's a matter of gaming being "good enough" for many many people, and that's fine but there's still gonna be dudes that would want to play high quality games on their commute...etc.
The thing is, the PSP already exists to fill this role very well. I personally do NOT want to rebuy the bag full of UMD games that I already own on a Vita through DD repurchases.
I have a PSP and a ton of games. I would have bought a Vita by now if it had a UMD drive for BC just for the upgraded screen with faster response time compared to my PSP. But I'll be damned if I'm going to rebuy those games as well.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
That was random.
dr_rus
Member
Actually, yes yes and yes. Vita's problem is not its price ($249 isn't much, it's quite affordable and right there where all console hardware always were) or software line-up (Vita has a lot of games for a handheld launched three months ago). The problem is that the handheld market itself seems to shrunk under the smartphones pressure and thus we're unlikely to see record sales for a dedicated gaming handheld ever again. More games on Vita (exclusively) will mean more flops in sales on Vita at the moment. Price drop on Vita h/w will mean loosing money for SCE (while it seems that at the moment they're selling it at a profit). The only thing that SCE can do right now is try and push for more Vita versions of bigger PS3/360 games. But these I won't buy on Vita because why would I if I can choose a better PS3/360/PC version? The Vita situation is right were it can be for now, nothing Sony can do to improve it really.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Right, it pretty much gives the early bird with a better price and library the only chair left at the end of the song, leaving Vita with nothing but a long, slow death. Sony should take action to re-launch it under a $199 or lower price with a slate of games, because that's pretty much the only real option they have besides killing this motherfucker off like Ninty did with Virtual Boy. Reintroduce the Vita in phones and focus on that and the next PS console. Better than wasting resources on what is surely a very fucking dead platform with little to no impressive third party support, no sales, and no positive buzz outside of some of the more insanely positive owners.
How is this relevant?
There is no system sellers anymore. Software in quantity and quality sell consoles, not just one game. Sony doesn't need one game, it need a bunch of games that make the system attractive.
michaelius
Banned
And that software will be released over the next 6 to 12 months.
pslayer666
Member
Hopefully they will announce a bunch of games for it at E3.
there's only like 3-4 games I feel like I need to get for it at the moment.
Maybe The Last Guardian will be a Vita only game now, that's why it's been delayed so long.....
Srsly though, I hope it works out for Sony in the end. I just bought a Vita and this is the first time ever I buy a product so close to launch. If it all falls apart I'll be effin pissed.
there's only like 3-4 games I feel like I need to get for it at the moment.
Maybe The Last Guardian will be a Vita only game now, that's why it's been delayed so long.....
lol
Srsly though, I hope it works out for Sony in the end. I just bought a Vita and this is the first time ever I buy a product so close to launch. If it all falls apart I'll be effin pissed.
For now.
CadetMahoney
Member
Vita is playing on Hell mode. It's on life/Vita support atm, no continues.
That remains to be seen. Very few publishers have demonstrated any real interest in the platform.
BishopLamont
Banned
Oh? Like what?
michaelius
Banned
Like LBP, Resistance, Gravity Daze, Persona 4, Souls, Miku (for Japan) + EA sports games for 2013 + whatever is not annouced yet but will be after E3/Gamescon/TGS.
Oh please, is really that difficult to understand that is wrong to treat iphone and ipad like "consoles"?
Don't fall in the apple's viral marketing campaign.
Calling iphone and ipad "consoles" is like calling them "photocameras" or "pcs", we know that real consoles, photocameras and pcs are completely different things.
Iphone is a smartphone, nothing more that the successor of cell phones, everyone have one or more cell phones, how can you pretend that a dedicated hardware can sell as much as cell phones?
Iphone can hurt casual sales, but "hardcore" gamers will always prefer dedicated consoles.
Don't fall in the apple's viral marketing campaign.
Calling iphone and ipad "consoles" is like calling them "photocameras" or "pcs", we know that real consoles, photocameras and pcs are completely different things.
Iphone is a smartphone, nothing more that the successor of cell phones, everyone have one or more cell phones, how can you pretend that a dedicated hardware can sell as much as cell phones?
Iphone can hurt casual sales, but "hardcore" gamers will always prefer dedicated consoles.
Again again again, it just needs Samsung or Apple to release an xperia like sku and it's all dead. People act like there is no problem but the enemy is just at the door, with an axe, and he's waiting.
Now for the Vita, when it was announced, i was bothered by the fact they tried to go in all directions. If we can be sure of something, at least, it's that it won't replace an a phone, and that people buying a Vita don't want the same as on their phone, or what's the point. That's why i hate the emphasis on tactile play. I don't want to touch that gorgeous screen! It's a bad tactical move. Vita is expensive, huge and designed like a geek toy. It's anti casual, and Sony seems to realize that, so why does they lose energy on that useless feature.
But anyway, there is probably a market for a classy dedicated gaming portable. Vita situation seems so bad and yet can turn good just like that. The production price will shrink as fast as phones are progressing every year, and at some point (like, i think, it hapened with psp in japan, outside the monster hunter effect), people will realize there is just a great console with lots of games for cheap.
What? So for you it's only a matter of controls?
It's a matter of games' prices and budgets. Who buys an iphone doesn't want to spend more than 3$ for a game, for this reason only little budgets are allowed, so you will never be able to play "hardcore" games that need huge amount of money, time and developers, exception apart obviously.
Physical controls or not iphone will always be the home of casual games(with some exceptions).
Raonak
Banned
No way. Even if you don't like touch games, a touchscreen is hardly a useless feature.
For one, it makes up for the fact theres no L2/R2/L3/R3, since you can reassign whatever functions to either touchscreen.
And secondly, and more importantly, it opens up more games. The PS suite surely couldn't be compatible with it if it werent for it.
Indeed it doesn't need just physical control. It just needs a secondary store with "real" more expensive and large games. If there are people who buys those games on portable, why wouldn't you buy them on a good phone with buttons ? If such a phone existed, every gamer would basically buy it instead of others. The price problem you address concerns the casual market. Those guys aren't the problem, they are already not interested in a portable console. I'm speaking about us, the others.
Raonak said:
I'll give you that but it creates a situation where the tactile screen is used too much, clearly. To have this technical possibility may be usefull indeed, but i'm more talking about it's unnecessary implantation in games. Mainstream people won't buy a Vita cause we can use our finger to move Drake... So don't mess with the people who are really interested in those games.
Nintendo never had 3rd party support because they treat third parties like shit. They continue to do so and will likely never gain the support of anyone who has other options. It had nothing to do with an E3 showing or market appeal, it is entirely built around Nintendo's borderline hostile way of dealing with 3rd parties.
So in this thread we've confirmed that God of War and all other Sony 1st party IPs failed to sell the PSP. GTA failed to sell the PSP. Apparently other than Monster Hunter, which only appealed to a small segment of gamers almost exclusively in Japan, no games made by anyone but Nintendo are handheld system sellers.
Yet the PSP has somehow sold over 70 million units.
Which Apple product gobbled up it's market? The iOS line which has been out since mid-2007, less than two years after Sony completed the worldwide launch of the Vita? Sony was at 53 million PSPs in the third quarter of 2010 when the iPad had been out for over half a year up to that point. So they've sold almost another 20 million PSPs in a post-iPad/iPhone 3G and up world in a little over a year.
The PSP is still selling well today and Sony is rolling out a new hardware format.
Much like with the PS3 Sony is seeing slow pick up due to a strong previous generation product's continued life. The PSP is still finding new markets to hit at lower price points and the software lineup is still getting strong entries. This will continue for another year or two as the Vita grows into it's own.
What you see as an identity issue I'd argue Sony views as a "soft launch" much like Nintendo did with the 3DS, allowing early adopters to subsidize costs at a higher margin while putting the system in consumer's hands and refining the firmware and various provided services on the fly. The marketing has been weaker than most Sony launches, the PS Suite and PS1 playback weren't made sure to be day and date at launch, etc.. This is all a product of Sony acknowledging that launch is a tough sell no matter what due to stiff competition with existing libraries at better price points. So the enthusiast consumer gets to subsidize the early life of the system in anticipation of a larger push down the road, just like the 3DS and PS3.
As for the Vita's identity, I think Sony does have a clear path there, it just hasn't fully clicked into place because of the "soft launch" and PS Suite's slow roll out.
Long term the identity Sony seems to be aiming for is a handheld that will offer the full console gaming experience on the go for those who want it, but also doubles as a handheld with the best of what Steam's indie/very small developer scene, PSN, and XBLA have had to offer this generation. This is one of the biggest underutilized talent pool of developers, where their games require too much horsepower, hardware controls, and time to be an ideal fit for the smart phone market but at the same time have a hard time living on a format designed primarily for the big retail releases (PS3, 360).
Nintendo has done some work with this (VVVVVV) but has made it pretty clear that the Nintendo image is still going to dictate what is and is not acceptable (no Binding of Isaac).
Sony's awareness of this and push for it is hinted at by Edmund McMillen's recent comment that Sony "wants Isaac... a lot". Consider that combined with Sony's own track record on finding PSN gems and the roll out of PS Suite. If Sony can truly entice the developers currently working on these kinds of games for Steam/PSN/XBLA to begin rolling out on the Vita as well the Vita will have it's true identity, as the optimal place to play those kinds of games.
Raonak
Banned
Well, majority of games have the touch controls as optional. touching to climb was actually my perferred method of traversing in uncharted (I mean, all you do is push the analog and tap X anyway)
Shoehorning is fine as long as you're not forced to use it. which was the problem.
(gah. uncharteds tilt log sections were annoying.
And i was watching the resistance burning skies trailer. you can tap the enemy to tag them with the bullseye. thats a really good implementation.
then theres stuff like swipe the back touch to reload which is stupid.
EDIT: maybe not. swiping the backtouch means you won't have to move your thumbs of the analogs.
so actually, that might be good implementation too.
I agree.
On your first point, I personally feel like if Apple released a bluetooth controller that wrapped around an iphone/ipodtouch, making it around the size of a PSP adding analog and digital controls/buttons but still able to be used externally from the iphone (since it's bluetooth) so that you can connect the ipod/ipad/iphone to your TV, it would be game over.
On your second point, I agree that it was stupid to go with touch screen to try to appeal to casuals not only from the standpoint that you haven't really created a "casuals gaming" device and all it really did was inflate the cost of the product. They wouldn't have had to sell it for $250 if they didn't have a touchscreen.
I personally feel like they made a HUGE mistake not having the UMD passport program worldwide and reasonably priced or FREE. If I load up my UMD version of a game that I already paid for, upwards of $30 worth, I shouldn't have to pay another $2-15 to make it playable on my Vita. And that's only in Japan, in the U.S. you don't even get that option...wtf?
Your own PSP product looks more attractive as a potential purchase than a PSV does at this point. 3DS had instant value to REPLACE the current DS because of full BC. You can't replace your PSP with a PSV unless you enjoy rebuying all your UMD games as a digital purchase.
UncleSporky
Member
Drek discovers that the prospect of getting any game you want for a system for free online is an attractive one to many consumers.
It's crazy how much some sony decisions fucked them hard on the looong term. It's the umd thing, in first place, that not only was a bad decision for the psp (lots of technical problems and umd movies tanked bad...), but became a poison for it's successor 6 years after that.
Dacvak
No one shall be brought before our LORD David Bowie without the true and secret knowledge of the Photoshop. For in that time, so shall He appear.
Yeah, that's the big question, and one that's borderline-impossible to set a figure to without extensive research we're not capable of. I guess we can only make assumptions, though.
What's your assumption?
Compare the PSP's software sales with any other system even close to it in unit sales, and its numbers will look absolutely pathetic.
Couldn't possibly have something to do with piracy. You know, the thing that PSP became infamous for.
And that potentially is another issue to prevent sales. Honestly, the Vita audience is basically the same audience that bought the PSP. The problem is, the PSP can already play all PS1 games, has emulators for all the previous game systems before PS1, etc, etc.
Who's going to replace that amazing piece of tech in their pocket with a locked down Vita? Sony's uphill battle is to make the Vita appear more attractive than the completely hacked PSP which I bet a ton of people have done to theirs (since it involves no mod chips or anything and originally was super simple).
(Honestly Nintendo kinda has that competition as well. Sorry Nintendo, I don't want to pay $5 for your ROM dump of the 80's game "Super Mario Brothers" again....I can already play it on the go.)
This needs a long talk, but think about "hardcore" gamers, they complain if a console has only an analogue, if loadings are long, 60 fps vs 30 fps and a lot of other things.
The thing you are describing needs to be a proper console to attract "hardcore" gamers losing the phone form factor for decent analogues, decent buttons, a decent battery etc, losing most of the "casual" audience.
Even with phones capabilities an iphone console would be a console, it would have the advantage of apple's strong position and the huge amount of loyal(some mindless) fans, but it would be submitted to the same ups and downs of the gaming industry that affects the other consoles.
It's not so much whether the people are out there as whether *enough* such people are out there to cover the increased development costs of such titles; if there aren't, either prices need to rise (perhaps putting more people off) or dev costs need to drop (at a loss of... something. The hard part there is finding a 'something' which doesn't put more people off)