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[Riposte]

I am very confident in saying that I'm not missing much, anime boy. Especially when a fan of his work can only scrap together this pathetic post then display some counterpoint to my post.

Anime boy lol

 

[Schopenhauerian]

Pretty sure I've heard GoW3 get criticized? What do you mean, "escaped criticism"?

Crossing Eden suggests that it did not get the criticism that it deserved, and on that point I'd definitely agree:

Poseidon princess. You drag here along the level as she begs for mercy. Then strap her to a device that rips her in half in order to go through a door. All this while her breasts are flopping around in view. Pretty gross is a bit of an understatement. If a scene like that were put into a triple A game today holy shit the backlash the studio would've gotten would be immense. But GoW 3 came out six year ago. Where the criticism of sexism and such in games was just about hitting it's stride.

 

[LotusHD]

Are you simply here to start shit?

Maybe he's here to give us new memes

 

[Lime]

I don't think him making a joke on twitter implies people cant voice their opinions on his game's designs.
Infact, i think it's a better approach than going full Kojima or Bungie, and trying to explain why your sexy character just HAD to show her ass.

The truth is you wanted a sexy design 'cause you liked it, some people may not like it, that's fine, no need to make it into a big drama (and infact, no one did).

Exactly, if people would just be more honest and upfront the conversation would improve so much

 

[sjay1994]

Pretty sure I've heard GoW3 get criticized? What do you mean, "escaped criticism"?


I think you missed some part of the conversation here. I was sarcastically replying to someone who said "if you don't like these sexualized designs go play something else!". The point is... there isn't much to play left if I did that. So I sarcastically said, "k, guess I'll stick to Bloodborne", because honestly, if I want a Japanese action-RPG with a non-sexualized female protagonist, all I have as an option is a game where I make my own character. And uh, Ys Origin I guess.

My point was that the whole "play something else" is missing the point, it's the fact that sexualized female protagonists are so damn common that it's rare to even have the alternative option.

Ah, my bad. Apologies.

 

[UrbanRats]

Yikes! I am excited for this one, really. And I swear I don't mind fanservice. I see the problems with it, but it's never been an issue to the point where I can't look past it, as long as the game itself is good. And Automata looks great! However, seeing this rubs me the wrong way. I'm getting really tired of people involved with a game coming out and acting like a group of people are aggressively pushing for them to remove fanservice from their game. There will be people who roll their eyes publicly, sure, but when has there ever been a situation when there's a big hate mob that violently pressured a dev to remove fanservice from their game, and it actually went through? If anything, it's usually a civil discussion of why it is bad between a couple of people, then everyone and their neighbor dogpiles them and tells them they're being "too politically correct", and to "stop censoring developers". It's super childish. I wont say names, but I know what audience this baseless outrage appeals to, and they aren't pleasant people. To see a dev try and feed that crowd makes no sense, IMO. This tweet will do nothing but spark nonsense. Any praise he's getting for "standing up" is undeserved. He'll always have the right to create and admire fanservice, as does everyone else, and anyone who believes otherwise is lying to themselves.

I don't see much wrong with a joke like this.
The people trying to take it as a banner for some great political statement (especially since this "controversy" didn't really exist) are pretty pathetic, though.

 

[Ruff]

Anime boy

Oh lawd the namecalling has begun

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Crossing Eden suggests that it did not get the criticism that it deserved, and on that point I'd definitely agree:

Okay. And? I recall seeing GoW3 get mentioned in a FemFreq video at least. And I also recall a GAF thread about it. Might not have as many GAF threads as Nier did because, as Crossing Eden said, it was several years ago.

So, what is your point in bringing up GoW3 again?

 

[Gbraga]

Anime boy lol

A N I M E B O Y Z

 

[Dargor]

Maybe he's here to give us new memes

Probably fishing for a Tag, cuz there is no othe reason to start labeling people.

 

[Coffee Dog]

Crossing Eden suggests that it did not get the criticism that it deserved, and on that point I'd definitely agree:

I distinctly remember it getting called out when it came out. Articles were written, and Adam Sessler was pretty upset. It just got dropped into the ether like so many other hot stories because the devs never doubled down on it and other big budget games came out.

I am very confident in saying that I'm not missing much, anime boy. Especially when a fan of his work can only scrap together this pathetic post then display some counterpoint to my post.

You can't fathom how deeply I want anime boy to legitimately become a pejorative on here.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Animu boy, not anime boy.

Let's speak properly.

 

[QisTopTier]

Crossing Eden suggests that it did not get the criticism that it deserved, and on that point I'd definitely agree:

And I can't agree with it. It fits Kratos, there is no reason not to have it unless for some reason you feel like women shouldn't be allowed to be brutally murdered in the same game men are. Which is a little silly in the over all picture of things. Yeah that scene is horrible, Kratos is a horrible piece of shit.

 

[Merc_]

I am very confident in saying that I'm not missing much, anime boy. Especially when a fan of his work can only scrap together this pathetic post then display some counterpoint to my post.

lmao

 

[Schopenhauerian]

Okay. And? I recall seeing GoW3 get mentioned in a FemFreq video at least. And I also recall a GAF thread about it. Might not have as many GAF threads as Nier did because, as Crossing Eden said, it was several years ago.

So, what is your point in bringing up GoW3 again?

I disagree a bit on the suggestion that its release six years ago renders the relative lack of criticism of it/Kratos/the God of War brand irrelevant. And again:

Other than that [Yoko Taro has] made some of the most diverse casts in videogames and is very vocal about the near non existing presentation of people with non-hetero sexuality in japanese media?

A common problem people have when talking about stuff like this is that they exclusively view it through the lens of modern blue-state American culture. A lot of stuff that seems like nothing special or even somewhat problematic by those standards can be very risky and progressive by the standards of the culture it comes from/audience it's targeted at.

...Taro does Taro and his games actually have some substance alongside any sexuality. There is easier low hanging fruit targets deserving of flak.

 

[sjay1994]

ok. Anime Boy is the funniest fucking thing I've read in a while.

 

[Audioboxer]

Okay. And? I recall seeing GoW3 get mentioned in a FemFreq video at least. And I also recall a GAF thread about it. Might not have as many GAF threads as Nier did because, as Crossing Eden said, it was several years ago.

So, what is your point in bringing up GoW3 again?

Google search "god of war 3 too violent"

Result 1. GAF. lol.

GoW is a long running franchise that does get flak. It's just it has its audience and as you know what you are getting people aren't going to be all that surprised when they get the latest God of War.

What however is a debate for another topic is given that technology and graphical abilities constantly improve, it's understandably harder for many to stomach the same violence that was around in the Solider of Fortune days when it's in full HD, or soon to be 4K and depicted in the level of detail of something like GoW.

That is undoubtedly making it harder for some to consume. Same applies to sexual content. It used to be blurry Duke Nukem pixelated breasts, now we have pretty in-depth penises, vaginas and breasts.

I disagree a bit on the suggestion that its release six years ago renders the relative lack of criticism of it/Kratos/the God of War brand irrelevant. And again:

That quote from me is more about games that have random sexualisation or just out of place adult themes. Low hanging fruit in that sense. God of War isn't a great target for it as it's one of the games that is brutally honest about what to expect. No lies, deceiving or otherwise normal platform gaming met with... "tits and ass!" for no real reason. It's a stylised depiction of greek mythology with all the orgies, gore, violence and gods fighting the tales tell.

 

[Crossing Eden]

It was there to show kratos doesn't give a flying fuck if you are man or woman. Yeah it's super fucked up but everything kratos does to people is fucked up. Gender doesn't mean shit to him. Is showcasing brutal violence towards women something that shouldn't be allowed then? If not why? What would your answer be, to never have women in combat situations in games where brutal violence happens in favor of the player?

That trophy title tho

The way that it's pretty blatantly framed that way since she's a woman is the issue. Like I said before in another thread I doubt they'd have designed poseidon prince with a dick that's flopping around realistically or even would've put any thought into doing that at all. I assume the play or "joke" here is that a princess is screaming for help and then Kratos come up, and the last person you'd wanna see helping you is Kratos. So it's a damsel in distress in a castle who gets brutally murdered by her "savior." All with large exposed breasts.

Brutal violence towards women is not inherently an issue:

as there is actually more pressure for studios to consider female enemies in games instead of just an army of men. It's the way violence is framed in a way that's done simply because they're a woman. Just to reiterate that poseidon princess scene would've most likely been portrayed very differently had it been a prince. In a similar vein consider how often rape scenes are written for female characters in david cage games compared to the male characters. That sort of difference is when it becomes an issue, this coupled with things like "sexy" female combatants compared to a bunch of burly men. Been incredibly refreshing to see a heavy decline on that in gaming.

 

[Kinyou]

And I can't agree with it. It fits Kratos, there is no reason not to have it unless for some reason you feel like women shouldn't be allowed to be brutally murdered in the same game men are. Which is a little silly in the over all picture of things. Yeah that scene is horrible, Kratos is a horrible piece of shit.

My personal gripe with it was that there were plenty of monsters around that Kratos could have also used, so contextually it was wonky, and as you mentioned, the trophy name. Character wise it is pretty in line with Kratos though. The first game even had a fairly similar scene with a male soldier.

Hell, even in God of war 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns7bWkPPauM

it's kind of a theme

 

[Eolz]

I am very confident in saying that I'm not missing much, anime boy. Especially when a fan of his work can only scrap together this pathetic post then display some counterpoint to my post.

I thought this kind of shit was bannable?

He was an anime boy
She said see you later boy

A N I M E B O Y Z

lol

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

The way that it's pretty blatantly framed that way since she's a woman is the issue. Like I said before in another thread I doubt they'd have designed poseidon prince with a dick that's flopping around realistically or even would've put any thought into doing that at all. Brutal violence towards women is not inherently an issue:


as there is actually more pressure for studios to consider female enemies in games instead of just an army of men. It's the way violence is framed in a way that's done simply because they're a woman. Just to reiterate that poseidon princess scene would've most likely been portrayed very differently had it been a prince.

Can't unsee muzzle flash appearing one second after the shot lol

 

[LotusHD]

A N I M E B O Y Z

 

[Dream_Journey]

The weird thing in this case talking about objectification is, that 2B is literally an object in-universe with her entire plot being about the fact of her being treated like an object, if the prequel stageplay is anything to go by.

They also aren't people, they are machines made by humans that have no rights and are made to be pleasing to the eye rather then confortible.

These are needs to be in every new page.

 

[SolidSnakex]

The way that it's pretty blatantly framed that way since she's a woman is the issue. Like I said before in another thread I doubt they'd have designed poseidon prince with a dick that's flopping around realistically or even would've put any thought into doing that at all. Brutal violence towards women is not inherently an issue:


as there is actually more pressure for studios to consider female enemies in games instead of just an army of men. It's the way violence is framed in a way that's done simply because they're a woman. Just to reiterate that poseidon princess scene would've most likely been portrayed very differently had it been a prince.

SSM was called out again because of the sequence in GoW:A where Kratos starts curb stomping one of the Furies. And it wasn't just because of the "Bros before Hos" trophy, it was because the level of violence toward women made some reviewers feel uncomfortable, even though Ascension is by far the least violent entry in the series.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

I'll backpedal and and apologized for being a shit.

 

[Weiss]

You know, I kind of want to diverge for a sec and talk about Adam and Eve. I get the thing with shirtless dudes in gaming is that we're supposed to be in awe of their raw masculine power, like with Kratos and Papa Nier, but Jesus Christ, they're actually pretty hot. Like, I feel like someone took Female Design 101 and applied it to some dudes.

 

[Gbraga]

WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS LMAO

 

[Fraeon]

Seems like such an innocuous joke...

It's less weird than Ken Levine asking people not to make Elizabeth porn because he equates it to finding pictures of your daughter.

 

[phoenix296]

What does Yoko Taro have to do with God of War?

 

[QisTopTier]

I doubt they'd have designed poseidon prince with a dick that's flopping around realistically or even would've put any thought into doing that at all.

I'm not gonna lie, I would have found this hilarious

I'll backpedal and and apologized for being a shit.

Better install some mirrors then if this is going to become common

 

[Eolz]

I'll backpedal and and apologized for being a shit.

Too late movieboy!

 

[Holy Order Sol]

Butts should be bringing people together, not tearing them apart. :/

 

[killatopak]

What does Yoko Taro have to do with God of War?

He's the final boss in the new gow game.

 

[sjay1994]

I'll backpedal and and apologized for being a shit.

Its too late, you're already a meme.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

as there is actually more pressure for studios to consider female enemies in games instead of just an army of men. It's the way violence is framed in a way that's done simply because they're a woman. Just to reiterate that poseidon princess scene would've most likely been portrayed very differently had it been a prince.

Midas suffers a similar death

 

[King Gilga]

I'll backpedal and and apologized for being a shit.

Don't, you were justice.

 

[LotusHD]

WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS LMAO

An anime called Sekkou Boys. A show about 4 young busts that want to become stars. Yes, it is as dumb (albeit funny) as it sounds lol

Lmao

 

[Ruff]

He was an anime boy
She said see you later boy

 

[sjay1994]

Just like one of his Japanese Animes.

 

[Nya]

You know, I kind of want to diverge for a sec and talk about Adam and Eve. I get the thing with shirtless dudes in gaming is that we're supposed to be in awe of their raw masculine power, like with Kratos and Papa Nier, but Jesus Christ, they're actually pretty hot. Like, I feel like someone took Female Design 101 and applied it to some dudes.

I am so glad I am not the only one drooling over them, they're hawt as hell

Especially this guy

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I disagree a bit on the suggestion that its release six years ago renders the relative lack of criticism of it/Kratos/the God of War brand irrelevant. And again:

Still can't figure out what your point is beyond some sort of whataboutism. Sorry.

 

[Dargor]

I'm not gonna lie, I would have found this hilarious

I might be remembering this wrong, but I do think SSM wanted to give dicks to male monster and Titans in the game.

They couldn't because some superior wanted them out or something like that.

 

[PillarEN]

WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS LMAO

Sekkou Boys
Edit: beaten

 

[Audioboxer]

SSM was called out again because of the sequence in GoW:A where Kratos starts curb stomping one of the Furies. And it wasn't just because of the "Bros before Hos" trophy, it was because the level of violence toward women made some reviewers feel uncomfortable, even though Ascension is by far the least violent entry in the series.

Aw man I totally forgot about that. Didn't they patch the name of it after anger directed at them? lol. The picture of the dead goat from Playstation Greece was it? was a right blunder as well.

As for the violence, I think that is partly because of what I said above. GoW has always been on the forefront of graphical capabilities and the more realistic violence gets the more it makes people squeamish. Film and TV makes many squeamish as it is, and it's acting, but we need to remember as gaming is interactive and not passive, many feel "in control" of an avatar/character. When it's a linear narrative like GoW it's not like you have a choice not to curb stomp. Mash that QTE baby, you're about to be a savage.

 

[KLoWn]

I don't know much about Nier. Which character is all the fuss about?

 

[CertifiedFP]

Butts should be bringing people together, not tearing them apart. :/

Goatse joke? Goatse joke.

 

[chrono01]

The opening post legit made me laugh, haha.

Keep on being awesome, Yoko Taro.

 

[Funyarinpa]

Well instead of going 'heheh I wank over my own characters' maybe he could try explaining why she's been designed that way? If it's no other reason than 'cause it's sexy', can you really not understand why people would be upset/annoyed? Not saying it's unethical, and of course artists can do whatever the hell they want in their games/movies/music, doesn't mean fans can't be disappointed or critical.

This is not to mention what a woman or girl thinks when they pick up this cool game with a girl as the main character, only to see her bits flapping in the breeze for all to see.

I can see that it'd be annoying to hear that it's only because of sexiness, but I do not feel that that necessarily translates into something that is sexist or problematic in such regard. I mean, it would be seen as something that sticks out in the game because it doesn't make sense in-universe, but I do not think that should translate to saying the game is sexist or problematic in its approach to that character. Of course I have nothing to say if "I wanted this character to be sexy so I got her into an outfit that doesn't make much sense" disappoints you as an excuse because it's contradictory with the game world, and I'd see why. I just think that a designer saying "I designed a character in a sexualized way because I find that attractive" is OK and not problematic, which much of the discussion around fanservice seems to imply (at least to me).

Regarding your second point, while I can see how that works I do not really see how you can really mitigate that when many video game characters differ wildly in physical condition from many of their audience. I guess I could use some elaboration on how exactly sexualization makes their female audience feel (I'm male, so I'm not very experienced in that regard beyond scoffing at fit dudebros, as I'm fat). Nor do I think that scantily clad = stripped of all merit as a role model/ an empowered character. (That also depends on the characterization, of course, but I'm assuming 2B's personality is multifaceted here.) I can see how the protagonist's attire could be a factor in shaping the investment of the female audience, but then again, I also think that it's perfectly fine for a creator to narrow their audience if they wish to do so (if the content they create alienates part of their fanbase, then I'm inclined to say that that is beyond criticism; though of course if that alienation wasn't desired it's still a worthy thing to give feedback upon.)

I'm all for more diversity in games in all its forms. It's just that I feel neither that nor the current climate of the game industry should keep a game's developer from designing their characters as they see fit (be it sexualized to spectacularly diverse to satirical). I don't mean that criticism = censorship, but I mean the "These things do not exist in a bubble so it's sexist to have sexualized characters designed to appeal to the developer's sexuality" argument.

TL;DR: I think it's OK for Taro to be (jokingly) asking for NSFW 2B art, because the character is designed to be sexually attractive obviously and I think the guy's just owning up to that fact. I believe it to be possible to have a character that's both sexualized and fleshed-out. Criticism isn't censorship nor does it infringe upon any of the creator's rights, but I do think that a creator's right to pander to (a part of) their audience is reserved.

 

[Jiraiza]

I don't know much about Nier. Which character is all the fuss about?

The one with the butt.

 

[QisTopTier]

My personal gripe with it was that there were plenty of monsters around that Kratos could have also used, so contextually it was wonky, and as you mentioned, the trophy name. Character wise it is pretty in line with Kratos though. The first game even had a fairly similar scene with a male soldier.

Hell, even in God of war 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns7bWkPPauM

it's kind of a theme

Yeah, hell I dont even have that big of an issue with the titty flopping around. It was the trophy title that leaves the sour taste in the over all picture to me. The trophy title basically throws out any "good will" of the moment being designed for what it is. I wonder if the person in charge of naming that trophy and stuff about the scene are the same. Either way it had to be approved so fail on that end

I might be remembering this wrong, but I do think SSM wanted to give dicks to male monster and Titans in the game.

They couldn't because some superior wanted them out or something like that.

I wouldn't doubt this. Honestly for what the game was there was an absurd absence of dicks. Would have helped with the world building of the era from the art and such we know today. I mean shit you see so much nudity in greek stuff you read and learn about in school.