DynamiteCop!
Banned
I still don't see this system being a thing.
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Rumor : Xbox Lockhart Reveal soon: 4Tf, Limited next gen features
- Thread starter Agnostic2020
- Start date
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
Significantly cheaper GPU,smaller SSD, no disk drive.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Thankfully it's over 10TF eh?Too bad you wont be able to experience true next-gen on a 9TF console at all
THE:MILKMAN
Member
How does this look?
XSX
APU 52(56CU) $120
RAM 16GB 14gbps $80
SSD 1TB $150*
BD $20
PSU $20
HSF/CENTRE ALU BLOCK $20
WIFI/BT/MISC CHIPS $15
CASE/ASSEMBLY $20
Controller $15
Total $460
XSS
APU 18(20CU) $72 (-40%)
RAM 12GB 14gbps $60 (-25%)
SSD 500GB $100* (-33%)
PSU $10
HSF $10
WIFI/BT/MISC CHIPS $15
CASE/ASSEMBLY $15
CONTROLLER $15$
Total $297 (+$15 if BD drive included)
*Bloomberg estimate. May be way overestimated.
XSX
APU 52(56CU) $120
RAM 16GB 14gbps $80
SSD 1TB $150*
BD $20
PSU $20
HSF/CENTRE ALU BLOCK $20
WIFI/BT/MISC CHIPS $15
CASE/ASSEMBLY $20
Controller $15
Total $460
XSS
APU 18(20CU) $72 (-40%)
RAM 12GB 14gbps $60 (-25%)
SSD 500GB $100* (-33%)
PSU $10
HSF $10
WIFI/BT/MISC CHIPS $15
CASE/ASSEMBLY $15
CONTROLLER $15$
Total $297 (+$15 if BD drive included)
*Bloomberg estimate. May be way overestimated.
Airbus Jr
Banned
Wow why sosocrates is banned dude
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
And this exactly where your post runs counter to what MS will be achieving "if" Lockhart is real. The far majority of gamers wouldn't even view the PS5 as "weaker" if Lockhart exist, because everyone will be able to see how Lockhart is a clear step weaker than both the PS5 and XSX.
Comparing the PS5 and XSX will require gamers to go to DF and view things at 300% zoom to see the difference. Or have framerate counting software to see the difference in the average FR. Most likely people will see that the PS5 and XSX is parity, whereas the real difference is in Lockhart.
How can MS expect people to see or even care about the PS5 being 15% weaker in GPU power than XSX when Lockhart is 200% less powerful than XSX?
Well, if they can use GDDR5 then all of the components could be the same or cheaper than the One X, apart from the storage. Since the One X used a 367mm^2 chip and required some exotic cooling, and Lockhart could be 200mm^2 with a more straightforward setup.
But I guess we will see when they announce the price, assuming Lockhart still exists.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
You are telling me to be smarter after multiple people have you told you exactly how it can be $200 cheaper than the XSX? Oh the irony.
The marketing really isn't that difficult? How does any other product in the tech world that has multiple skus with different levels of hardware market? Its not hard at all. The biggest difference that people will see instantly is the price and then ask questions. People that see the price difference and then have to ask questions are not going to fall down a hole of Teraflops and Xbox One X GCN TF vs Lockhart RDNA TF. You are creating scenarios that just don't exist.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Would you have any idea how much shipping, retail percentage, distribution, etc cost on top of that BOM?
THE:MILKMAN
is the only person to show how it could be cheaper and by how much. I'm literally creating scenarios that everyone has been talking about on GAF and every other videogame forum, social media site, blog, and podcast between the XSX and PS5.Like what are you talking about? There's a high possibility that MS will have the Xbox One S, Xbox One X, Xbox Series S, and Xbox Series X on store shelves all at the same time. And the "and then ask questions" is the part I'm talking about. You don't think it can be kinda confusing to some casual gamers?
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DaGwaphics
Member
I think you overestimate their need to demonstrate anything at all regarding comparisons to PS5. Everything depends on price point, if XSX is substantially more expensive it will have a lot to prove.
The other way to look at Lockhart is what happens if everyone sees the same games running at similar framerates as PS5 and XSX but at lower resolutions? Will they continue to not care about resolution and buy the cheaper option (as they've been doing with One S and PS4 Base)? Would this make the premium consoles seem "niche" and unnecessary to the general market? Does MS care if they are the only ones serving that market with a low cost option? Many questions.
That was a really benign post to get banned on, wasn't it?
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THE:MILKMAN
Member
Afraid not. I'm just a gaming enthusiast that thinks he learnt some things over the last 25 years!
Airbus Jr
Banned
Ive seen that poster (sosocrates) quite alot
Is there any particular reason for his ban?
Sorry bcos i dont read all the pages here
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DaGwaphics
Member
It appears to be the post you quoted, that's the one referenced in the "bans" area. Might have been more of cumulative thing however, that poster is funny to me, but can be a bit of a console warrior.
Airbus Jr
Banned
Thats quite unfortunate...
I hope someday he will reapear..reborn..under new name...and less console warring...
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
These are EXCELLENT questions actually! I'm 99% sure Sony's 1st party games and PSVR2 will convince people their "premium" console is worth it (when compared to Lockhart). But very good questions none the less.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Would you have any idea how much shipping, retail percentage, distribution, etc cost on top of that BOM?
Like what are you talking about? There's a high possibility that MS will have the Xbox One S, Xbox One X, Xbox Series S, and Xbox Series X on store shelves all at the same time. And the "and then ask questions" is the part I'm talking about. You don't think it can be kinda confusing to some casual gamers?
I told you exactly how it can be cheaper using a 2060 vs 2080 and you chose to ignore the comment. Not my fault you are picking and choosing what to respond to.
And again you are talking about the 1 percent who go to blogs, listen to gaming podcasts, gaf etc.
The casual gamer as you call it isn't going to walk into a store, see the supposed layout of 4 different xbox's and just get so overwhelmed and have a melt down. They will either ask a friend, do a google search, see the Series X and S are new and pick that up if they choose. When a consumer goes and buys an iPhone and see the iPhone X, iPhone SE, iPhone XR, iPhone 11 Pro, iPhone 11 Pro Max and the iPhone 11 do they get confused and just leave without a phone?
DaGwaphics
Member
Should be back with the existing name on the 5th, coming back prior to that with an alt would probably not be a good idea.
Elenchus
Banned
Latest statistics show that nearly 70% of U.S. households still have 1080p televisions (or a resolution other than 4k). Could not find world wide numbers but I’m not expecting a wide variance.
4K Ultra HDTV US household penetration 2014-2018 | Statista
As of 2018, around 31 percent of U.S.
www.statista.com
What data are you relying upon to support your claim that “most” console players have 4k televisions?
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
His butt.Latest statistics show that nearly 70% of U.S. households still have 1080p televisions (or a resolution other than 4k). Could not find world wide numbers but I’m not expecting a wide variance.
4K Ultra HDTV US household penetration 2014-2018 | Statista
As of 2018, around 31 percent of U.S.
What data are you relying upon to support your claim that “most” console players have 4k televisions?
Airbus Jr
Banned
Latest statistics show that nearly 70% of U.S. households still have 1080p televisions (or a resolution other than 4k). Could not find world wide numbers but I’m not expecting a wide variance.
4K Ultra HDTV US household penetration 2014-2018 | Statista
As of 2018, around 31 percent of U.S.
What data are you relying upon to support your claim that “most” console players have 4k televisions?
Yeah but 4K is the future and more and more people will be adopting 4K TV
Whats the point of focusing on 1080p TV in 2020 onwards
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
They arent focusing on it. They have a product for both markets.
MisterXDTV
Member
I wonder how this thread would be different if Sony had a cheaper system coming this gen also
Sony doesn't need to launch 2 different consoles at the same time: they are winning the gen, regardless...
MisterXDTV
Member
The problem is that PS5 will be 100 or 150 dollars more and give you much more....
People know they can connect any console to a 1080p TV anyway.... I will do it
And when they decide to change that TV they will have a Premium console ready to use
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Airbus Jr
Banned
I understand that but launching a nextgen system weaker than current gen is just ridiculous for me
Lockhart nextgen xbox is weaker than Xbox One X imagine that
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Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Its not weaker by any means. Its stronger.
100-150 dollars is a lot more to an average consumer of disposable income. That's the difference between getting a console with a few games vs just getting a console. You can always spend more to get more but some people do not care. That $100 goes a long way in the mind of someone who isn't plugged into the eco system and details like we are.
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DaGwaphics
Member
It's just like the GPU market, there is always that superior card that is just $100 more. When GPU lines were more fleshed out (5 or maybe 10 years ago), there was generally a noticeably better option for just $50 more, yet many low priced cards were sold.
Same with TVs when you think about it. You see people complaining about that no-name BF TV breaking after 6 months, when even $20 or $30 more could have gotten a name-brand unit.
Same with TVs when you think about it. You see people complaining about that no-name BF TV breaking after 6 months, when even $20 or $30 more could have gotten a name-brand unit.
Airbus Jr
Banned
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DaGwaphics
Member
Airbus Jr
Banned
Fixed to update details.
I still refuse to believe that lockhart is superior to one x
No matter what theres no excuses to put a new console with less tf than the older one
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Bladed Thesis
Member
Well, you refuse to believe something about a device (allegedly coming out, no confirmation) that we know nothing about. Until we get official word on what is in this supposed Lockhart, we won't know so you are totally allowed to refuse to believe that and it is just a legitimate to refuse to believe it will be superior to the One X.
But if it does come out with RDNA 2, Zen 2 CPU, NVMe SSD then it will be superior to the One X.
Time will tell.
thelastword
Banned
Latest statistics show that nearly 70% of U.S. households still have 1080p televisions (or a resolution other than 4k). Could not find world wide numbers but I’m not expecting a wide variance.
4K Ultra HDTV US household penetration 2014-2018 | Statista
As of 2018, around 31 percent of U.S.
What data are you relying upon to support your claim that “most” console players have 4k televisions?
Ok, a report which mostly consists of data from the years 2014/2015 and most part of 2016 before any of the pseudo 4K consoles made it to the market is your up to date data...For your information we are in the year 2020, the year of our lord and by the time these new consoles make it in, we will be near the year 2021.....A 1080p console in late 2020/ early 2021, good luck with that.....The PRO consoles will be targeting 8K and 8K CB, you will even get 8K games on PS5 and series X, but you think a 1080p Lockhart is a good idea.
https://technology.informa.com/609782/4k-tv-and-uhd-the-whole-picture
https://4kuniversenow.com/pages/4k-market-research
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
New Zen CPU is massively more powerful than the Jag in the Xbox One X and the 4TF in the Lockhart is based on RDNA meaning its on par with the One X in terms of raw TF output due to the new architecture but it will also have far more GPU features due to it being RDNA.
Elenchus
Banned
I thought TF don’t matter. Now they do again? That’s not too suspiciously convenient I guess. Lol.
Sounds like you just don’t understand the difference between GCN and RDNA but you’re wrong.
Simple as that.
Elenchus
Banned
Ok, a report which mostly consists of data from the years 2014/2015 and most part of 2016 before any of the pseudo 4K consoles made it to the market is your up to date data...For your information we are in the year 2020, the year of our lord and by the time these new consoles make it in, we will be near the year 2021.....A 1080p console in late 2020/ early 2021, good luck with that.....The PRO consoles will be targeting 8K and 8K CB, you will even get 8K games on PS5 and series X, but you think a 1080p Lockhart is a good idea.
https://technology.informa.com/609782/4k-tv-and-uhd-the-whole-picture
https://4kuniversenow.com/pages/4k-market-research
The numbers I gave you were current through 2018. And you still haven’t answered my question. Or didn’t you think I would notice? Where is the worldwide data for console players?
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
You are falling victim to marketing.
CrashNBurn_281
Member
Except it's not. Nice try though. Cannot have it both ways.
It isnt like like I am am even an Xbox advocate. The brand itself has a serious uphill hurdle. This Lockhart crap is just stupid at this point.
thelastword
Banned
Your figure is not even for just 2018 or adoption would have been higher YOY...…...It starts from 2014, when most people were using 1080p consoles, hell even 720p-900p consoles in case of the XBONE......Lockhart is not launching till late 2020......Adoption rate of 4K will be magnitudes higher and 8K will be hitting the shelves.....Good luck selling a 1080p console...….And always remember consoles set trends, the masses will be living 1080p behind, just like they left 720p behind when PS4 came along.....Next gen will be 4K country...…..both true next gen consoles will do 4k natively on the majority of their titles, even 4K tv content and sub service content will be a massive driver...……….Funny enough, it's also when 4K UHD discs makes most sense......Funny how MS always misreads the market and don't understand when certain specs are viable, when certain marketing monikers are most apt....
Vawn
Banned
It's not. Teraflops and overall system capabilities are not the same thing.
alabtrosMyster
Banned
buying a console never qualify as "investment" unless you speculate on its price to resell it at an higher price down the road.
My assumption is that it will target 1080p TV owners.
Fun Fanboy
Banned
That's kind of embarrassing have all this concern about the Lockhart... .and then thinking that X1X is more powerful. And before people say customers will be confused.. .The X1X is being fazed out. It'll be gone. Long live the other 2.
ZywyPL
Banned
Marketing should be MS least concerns, they would have the most powerful next-gen console and the cheapest next-gen console, it's impossible to have any more simple and obvious massage for the consumers.
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DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Latest statistics show that nearly 70% of U.S. households still have 1080p televisions (or a resolution other than 4k). Could not find world wide numbers but I’m not expecting a wide variance.
4K Ultra HDTV US household penetration 2014-2018 | Statista
As of 2018, around 31 percent of U.S.
What data are you relying upon to support your claim that “most” console players have 4k televisions?
He said console gamers. Everyone owning a TV doesn't game on consoles.
This data is also from 2014-2018. It was very common for people in 2014 to have 1080p TVs, compared to now where 4K TVs can be bought dirt cheap. The data we need now is to see how many console gamers are gaming on 4KTVs.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Least?
They're going up against Sony and Nintendo. Marketing should be one of their top priorities.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
That's just the GPU though. That's a very PC-like thing to do. A console is different. And no it's not just 1% of people that go to blogs. It's the same people that MS screwed themselves up with, with the "TV TV TV" introduction on the Xbox One, the same people that Sony screwed themselves up with when they said "You'll need to own a 2nd job to own the PS3". That stuff matters. We aren't the 1%. When we on forums hear these things, we speak to our brothers, cousins, friends, etc about it. Word gets around fast.
And comparing this to a phone isn't the best thing to do. And YES the different levels of iphones do confuse people. Alot of the time they just get the one they can most afford or the get the most expensive one. But I'm spoken to many people that get confused. It's one reason why the Galaxy Andriod phones are so popular with that OS. Instead of looking at 5 different hardware manufactures that make Android phones, many casuals just get the latest Samsung Galaxy smart phone instead.
Elenchus
Banned
Is English your first language?
“ As of 2018, around 31 percent of U.S. television households made use of 4K Ultra HDTV products.”
You believe that number has moved exactly where in one year’s time?
Flintty
Member
Elenchus
Banned
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
You did, but you posted data that doesn't really dispute his point since its not a stat for console gamers. Try paying attention, okay?Isn’t that what I asked him for? Try to keep up ok.