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[Journey]

If the concern soundbites are only about ambiguous details or possible missing features and it in turn garners clarification from the platform holder, then they should be encouraged to do it across all platforms.

If, on the other hand, they are just pointless clickbait bullshit, then...

Many sites have pointed out that MS specifically mentioned VRS, meanwhile Sony has not. This has led to questioning whether the PS5 GPU has the ability in many occasions. I agree, if this leads to Sony confirming, then it’s doing us a service, I don’t get why anyone would get triggered.

Some people are acting as if DF redacted the words VRS from Sony’s presentation

 

[Lethal01]

It’s fascinating that DF always has these “concern” sound bites, but they’ve only been in one direction. .

This is not true, they had tons of concerns with the Hellblade trailers, they were worried it's totally prerendered.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

This is not true, they had tons of concerns with the Hellblade trailers, they were worried it's totally prerendered.

Well shit.

I thought Hellblade was real time graphics. I mean what you would get if playing the game.

 

[Lethal01]

Well shit.

I thought Hellblade was real time graphics. I mean what you would get if playing the game.

Probably is, all the concerns they had would be solved by tech similar to that of UE5. The point being is that Sony isn't the only one they have concerns about.

 

[DeepEnigma]

This is not true, they had tons of concerns with the Hellblade trailers, they were worried it's totally prerendered.

That sounds more complementary, lol.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

That sounds more complementary, lol.

Lol yeah. "There's no way this is possible, it's just too good".

DF has been incredibly biased, always second guessing Cerny and the PS5 details that have released thus far. Really irritating, tbh

 

[Aceofspades]

Lol yeah. "There's no way this is possible, it's just too good".

DF has been incredibly biased, always second guessing Cerny and the PS5 details that have released thus far. Really irritating, tbh

Its crazy to me that people don't see DF bias. Alex (Dictator) is part of that infamous discord group, and Rich is a well known Xbox supporter. Look at his damage control articles in 2013.

 

[Lethal01]

That sounds more complementary, lol.

They were implying that the series X couldn't actually look this good.
Just like they are implying ps5 can't do vrs.

 

[sol_bad]

So I saw the Digital Foundry video about VRS and well ...... I'm not impressed with it at all. I' sure it's a god send on the developmental side but I'm sorry, I'drather developers optimise the shit out of their games so that compromises don't have to be made. Seeing textures or shadows in a lower quality at times and better quality at other times would be annoying. I'd prefer a more consistent look.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Well since most early games are 4k 30fps, can they implement something like checkerboard 4k 60fps? Basically an option between resolution and performance.

Or is that when a game has maxed out the CPU at 30fps, varying the resolution wouldn't do much?

I don't think there would be much difference to fps between 4k and CB, since those are done with not much cpu involvement. Reducing physics would have more impact (less moving objects, less destruction) and/or reducing refresh rate of background animations (that aren't done by GPU) and or reducing the amount /complexity of AI.

 

[Three]

Lol yeah. "There's no way this is possible, it's just too good".

DF has been incredibly biased, always second guessing Cerny and the PS5 that have released thus far. Really irritating, tbh

Frankly what is irritating are the xbox fans who hang on to every small statement as some confirmation bias of PS5 not having something. That's not DF fault.

"I didnt see Cerny mention RDNA 2 it must not be RDNA 2"

Yes it's confirmed RDNA 2

"They said it has Ray tracing but they didn't say it has hardware Ray tracing"

Yes it has "hardware Ray tracing".

"but does it have SFS otherwise sony would have said it does"
"but does it have VRS"
"but does it have..."

It's infuriating and DF making statements like that doesn't help even if not their intention.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Frankly what is irritating are the xbox fans who hang on to every small statement as some confirmation bias of PS5 not having something. That's not DF fault.

"I didnt see Cerny mention RDNA 2 it must not be RDNA 2"

Yes it's confirmed RDNA 2

"They said it has Ray tracing but they didn't say it has hardware Ray tracing"

Yes it has "hardware Ray tracing".

"but does it have SFS otherwise sony would have said it does"
"but does it have VRS"
"but does it have..."

It's infuriating and DF making statements like that doesn't help even if not their intention.

Maybe it is their intention...
After MS July presentation, I don't think DF is even going to question how zlib stacks with bcpack then tags VRS to form a magic 2x-3x speed multiplier.
When Xbox fanboys talk about the XSX ssd elements, sometimes, I'm not sure if they are talking about tech or Candy Crush.

 

[BGs]

Fud: Believing this can only happen on PS5.

Since it’s exclusive we will never be able to prove this as an example, but there will be other games to show it.

I will not contradict you, I will only clarify the phrase. Since it is necessary.

It is a reality that XSX can "visually" do Ratchet & Clanck. But, "logistically", it can't be done on XSX. In XSX you cannot do that loading of dimensional portals with that instant. There would be an irreparable stoppage that would affect the gaming experience.

It is true that it is not necessary for all games to make those loadings either. It will depend on the game and its design. So XSX is not limited by visual quality, but it is limited by artistic quality (or the creation of new concepts and ideas applicable to a video game).

Totally limited? No. But it involves a very well thought-out study and a difficulty that does not exist on PS5. That will make studios seriously ask whether to approach the idea or dispense with it on that platform, which can affect the quality of ideas or their variety in games on XSX.

But for the peace of mind of many, CODs will continue to look impressive on XSX (but on PS5 as well).

 

[Ahmady]

I will not contradict you, I will only clarify the phrase. Since it is necessary.

It is a reality that XSX can "visually" do Ratchet & Clanck. But, "logistically", it can't be done on XSX. In XSX you cannot do that loading of dimensional portals with that instant. There would be an irreparable stoppage that would affect the gaming experience.

Did you actually see the gameplay footage, here:

?

I think you got something wrong. There is no such thing as instantly loading a whole new game, there is still a hidden loading screen, see here:

They are basically just jumping, as you can see here:







For a real level change, we are seeing a very long loading screen, the loading screen starts as soon as the camera zooms hin:



I think this is even possible on current-gen easily. Titanfall 2 has a similar mission.

 

[phil_t98]

We saw a full ray tracede game on XSX, Minecraft at 1080p. Be afraid.

Well considering the XSX is more powerful yeah be worried

 

[dead monkey uk]

My knowledge on VRS is a bit limited, as I understand it, it allows for the impression of better visuals than need to be rendered.

If Sony continue to use checkerboard, temp injection and other up scaling techniques, would this not be an alternative to VRS?

 

[geordiemp]

Well considering the XSX is more powerful yeah be worried

Ps5 is faster, be worried. Crap vs crap.

point being made is one GPU has 20 % more TF and is wider, one is 20 % faster clocks, one has bigger api abstraction, one is more direct api, both use same speed RAM chips 14 gbps, one is wider for GPU access and narrower for other CPU and audio access. One has 100 % faster IO.

And so far most third parties have said they are same resolution (Destiny etc).

But keep telling that to yourself.

 

[Jon Neu]

-DF says something even vaguely and remotely negative about Sony:

“They are MS paid shills, stop with the FUD!!1!”

-DF says something bad about MS:

“lol, Xbox sucks!!1!, Sony is king!!”

Fanboys always win.

 

[Andodalf]

My knowledge on VRS is a bit limited, as I understand it, it allows for the impression of better visuals than need to be rendered.

If Sony continue to use checkerboard, temp injection and other up scaling techniques, would this not be an alternative to VRS?

In terms of how they both seek to save render budget in ways that don’t impact image quality too much, sure, but in terms of what they really are not at all. Checker boarding, Temporal upsampling, ML upsampling, or any other reconstruction technique effects the entire screen, rendering everything in a lower base resolution. VRS intelligently detects areas that aren’t important, such as areas behind motion blur, and reduces the shading quality only in those places, so the quality of what the player can really see isn’t impacted at all. Of course, how well this works varies by title. In addition, VRS can be combined with any other technique fairly readily and without issue, so image reconstruction isn’t a replacement, but a compliment to it.

 

[geordiemp]

--

 

[Jon Neu]

Ps5 is faster, be worried. Crap vs crap.

Ask your girlfriend what would she prefer, for you to be faster or more powerful in bed.

Checkmate, Knackrens.

 

[geordiemp]

Ask your girlfriend what would she prefer, for you to be faster or more powerful in bed.

Checkmate, Knackrens.

I am really broadening my mind discussing technical detail with intellectuals such as yourself.

Enlighten us more !

 

[Raonak]

Maybe there's no reason to opt for VRS this early in the generation, because most games aren't hitting the generous GPU limits yet.

When all the games run at full 4K, what's the point of VRS?

 

[dead monkey uk]

In terms of how they both seek to save render budget in ways that don’t impact image quality too much, sure, but in terms of what they really are not at all. Checker boarding, Temporal upsampling, ML upsampling, or any other reconstruction technique effects the entire screen, rendering everything in a lower base resolution. VRS intelligently detects areas that aren’t important, such as areas behind motion blur, and reduces the shading quality only in those places, so the quality of what the player can really see isn’t impacted at all. Of course, how well this works varies by title. In addition, VRS can be combined with any other technique fairly readily and without issue, so image reconstruction isn’t a replacement, but a compliment to it.

Thanks for the reply, never thought about VRS being used to compliment other techniques.

 

[dead monkey uk]

Maybe there's no reason to opt for VRS this early in the generation, because most games aren't hitting the generous GPU limits yet.

When all the games run at full 4K, what's the point of VRS?

Could VRS not free up resources to add more Ray Tracing and help produce a better framerate if needed.

 

[Jon Neu]

It is a reality that XSX can "visually" do Ratchet & Clanck. But, "logistically", it can't be done on XSX. In XSX you cannot do that loading of dimensional portals with that instant. There would be an irreparable stoppage that would affect the gaming experience.

Good tale from your ass, but you don’t have any evidence to sustain the claim.

MS says Xbox Series X is capable of loading 100gb instantly. Let’s say that instantly is the 2 seconds the PS5 needs to load the new world in R&C.

Do you think those worlds need more than 100GB? I highly doubt it.

I am really broadening my mind discussing technical detail with intellectuals such as yourself.

Enlighten us more !

Sorry for the girlfriend part, I know that’s too theorical for someone of your intellectual height.

 

[INC]

RnC needs to be 60fps, so hope VRS is used to hit that

 

[geordiemp]

Good tale from your ass, but you don’t have any evidence to sustain the claim.

MS says Xbox Series X is capable of loading 100gb instantly. Let’s say that instantly is the 2 seconds the PS5 needs to load the new world in R&C.

Do you think those worlds need more than 100GB? I highly doubt it.




Sorry for the girlfriend part, I know that’s too theorical for someone of your intellectual height.

Do you have anything clever to say or not ?

I cant be bothered with playground insults, even my son has grown out of that.

I cant even be bothered to help you understand IO, by access do your mean NAND ms access time, SSD speed or total time to file locate whats needed and transfer / decompress to RAM checked in and ready to use ?

You do realise thats 3 different things.....I dont know why I even asked.

 

[dead monkey uk]

RnC needs to be 60fps, so hope VRS is used to hit that

I do wonder if Sony first party might start offering a 4K/30fps with RT etc but also offer a 60fps mode with the res and RT scaled back.

I am sure a game running at 1800p wil be difficult to tell its not 4K.

 

[geordiemp]

Could VRS not free up resources to add more Ray Tracing and help produce a better framerate if needed.

Racing games etc, sky and sides of road that are blurred, next gen will probably have 120 fps versions from both consoles.

RnC needs to be 60fps, so hope VRS is used to hit that

VRS for R&C, which parts of the screens that you have seen would you choose to lower the resolution / checkerboard etc is the simple way of looking at it....mmm, not so easy to apply is it, everywhere you look there is stuff flying around.

Probably be something like 1800p60 temporal to 4K if there is a performance mode. I hope so.

 

[Raonak]

Could VRS not free up resources to add more Ray Tracing and help produce a better framerate if needed.

Not really, from my understanding;
ray tracing is bespoke hardware, so GPU load should not really effect it.
it could raise framerates, but only if the game is GPU bound (meaning low framerate due to GPU)

this early in the generation, nothings gonna be GPU bound. and checkerboard/lowering res would give you a far bigger performance return.

Good tale from your ass, but you don’t have any evidence to sustain the claim.

MS says Xbox Series X is capable of loading 100gb instantly. Let’s say that instantly is the 2 seconds the PS5 needs to load the new world in R&C.

Sorry for the girlfriend part, I know that’s too theorical for someone of your intellectual height.

wtf does that even mean???
the SSD has a limit of ~5gbs for compressed data.
and there's only 12gb of ram in the console.

what does that 100gb figure even mean?

also, Xbox could easily do the ratchet warping of worlds, expect that it would take twice as long (4 seconds in the purple instead of 2)
The reason why you go through a portal is because you don't have 2 levels loaded in memory at the same time.
(which is how current methods of warping work, basically faking the effect)

Ratchet would not be possible in current-gen because it's one full level which quickly transitions to the next full level.
If you did that in current gen tech, ratchet would be falling through the purple portal for 30-60 seconds.

 

[sinnergy]

Did you actually see the gameplay footage, here:

?

I think you got something wrong. There is no such thing as instantly loading a whole new game, there is still a hidden loading screen, see here:

They are basically just jumping, as you can see here:







For a real level change, we are seeing a very long loading screen, the loading screen starts as soon as the camera zooms hin:



I think this is even possible on current-gen easily. Titanfall 2 has a similar mission.

It’s probably not even loading a whole level in those 2 seconds , would be a waste of time , but a chunk of a level , and streams the rest when you play.

So I hardly think it fills the full 16 gig ram. Or what’s left for games , 12?

 

[Deleted member 775630]

I will not contradict you, I will only clarify the phrase. Since it is necessary.

It is a reality that XSX can "visually" do Ratchet & Clanck. But, "logistically", it can't be done on XSX. In XSX you cannot do that loading of dimensional portals with that instant. There would be an irreparable stoppage that would affect the gaming experience.

It is true that it is not necessary for all games to make those loadings either. It will depend on the game and its design. So XSX is not limited by visual quality, but it is limited by artistic quality (or the creation of new concepts and ideas applicable to a video game).

Totally limited? No. But it involves a very well thought-out study and a difficulty that does not exist on PS5. That will make studios seriously ask whether to approach the idea or dispense with it on that platform, which can affect the quality of ideas or their variety in games on XSX.

But for the peace of mind of many, CODs will continue to look impressive on XSX (but on PS5 as well).

Why can't XSX do this? You are purely guessing that the R&C gameplay uses the full potential of the SSD, but you have no figures to back this up. For all we know the XSX is also able to do this with its SSD... 100GB is instantly accessible, how much more do you need?

 

[funking giblet]

VRS

if(ticks % 2 == 0 && camera.z > 100) {
return DoShaderWork(fragment);
}
return fragment;

 

[Jon Neu]

also, Xbox could easily do the ratchet warping of worlds, expect that it would take twice as long (4 seconds in the purple instead of 2)

4 seconds instead of 2!!!1????

Cancelling my pre-order as we speak.

 

[Raonak]

4 seconds instead of 2!!!1????

Cancelling my pre-order as we speak.

I mean, it does start adding up, when you're doing multiple transitions in a matter of seconds, it becomes a legitimate advantage.
but ratchet is an exclusive, so it doesn't even matter anyway.

 

[onesvenus]

I don't understand the point of having VRS if the game is designed and performs at native 4k and stable 30 fps.

Using VRS allows for not wasting cycles on things that are not needed. You can have stable 4K/30FPS and use VRS to have better raytracing for example.

Is this not similar to saying XYZ game doesn't have checker-boarding 4K when it is running at native 4K?

No, a more valid comparison would be with LODs or MipMaps. It's not that you need to use those for technical reasons. Even when you are on your performance target it makes no sense to use a full resolution model/texture when it's drawn really far away and only renders on a few pixels. This is the same, you don't want to waste processing where it's not needed at all

 

[Ahmady]

I mean, it does start adding up, when you're doing multiple transitions in a matter of seconds, it becomes a legitimate advantage.
but ratchet is an exclusive, so it doesn't even matter anyway.

How is this not possible on XSX?

There is no such thing as instantly loading a whole new game, there is still a hidden loading screen, see here:

They are basically just jumping, as you can see here:





For a real level change, we are seeing a very long loading screen, the loading screen starts as soon as the camera zooms hin:



I know, there is an announcement trailer but this is all pre-rendered and not true gameplay, see here for true gameplay:

 

[Andodalf]

Could VRS not free up resources to add more Ray Tracing and help produce a better framerate if needed.

Sure, absolutely. While RT has its own hardware, it has a huge performance hit as it require a combination of work from its own hardware as well as the regular GPU hardware. Any RT bench will show how hard the tech hits GPUs. VRS frees up render budget that can be used for anything you like.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Why can't XSX do this? You are purely guessing that the R&C gameplay uses the full potential of the SSD, but you have no figures to back this up. For all we know the XSX is also able to do this with its SSD... 100GB is instantly accessible, how much more do you need?

I won’t say XSX can’t do R&C because it’s impossible for me to know. The generation hasn’t even started and I very much doubt we will get a full grasp of the differences between consoles straight from the get go.

That said, you and others really need to stop using the whole “100gb instantly” quote from MS. What does that mean, what does instantly mean, what is the context? Because it’s simply ridiculous to propose that it can use 100GB/s, since the specs completely oppose that idea. Just drop this bullshit.

And people keep focusing on the wrong thing, which is total amount of data. What matters is how fast in milliseconds these systems are, and regardless of how you fight this, one is the clear winner. By a significant margin.

Like Matt from era said, when it comes to I/O, PS5 is more like a I/O focused midgen refresh 4 years from now. Let’s stop downplaying this.

 

[Jon Neu]

I mean, it does start adding up, when you're doing multiple transitions in a matter of seconds, it becomes a legitimate advantage.
but ratchet is an exclusive, so it doesn't even matter anyway.

Adding up what? The only advantadge PS5 has is the SSD, and the difference is going to be 1, 2 or 3 seconds at worst. Hardly a dealbreaker.

 

[Allandor]

...
Ratchet would not be possible in current-gen because it's one full level which quickly transitions to the next full level.
If you did that in current gen tech, ratchet would be falling through the purple portal for 30-60 seconds.

That is a bit misleading. You could do something like that even on current gen, but than you have a whole other budget of Asset-quality. Lower Assets-Quality -> Less data to stream. Yes, it might get a low-quality look, but it would not be impossible.
E.g. if you dump it down to just use 2GB of RAM, you can cache 1.5-2 additional Levels in the rest of the memory. That is still much more memory than PS3 & xb360 had. Than you "just" get additional loading at the start of the game.

My point is -> Gamplay is possible like on the next-gen consoles. Quality isn't.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

I won’t say XSX can’t do R&C because it’s impossible for me to know. The generation hasn’t even started and I very much doubt we will get a full grasp of the differences between consoles straight from the get go.

That said, you and others really need to stop using the whole “100gb instantly” quote from MS. What does that mean, what does instantly mean, what is the context? Because it’s simply ridiculous to propose that it can use 100GB/s, since the specs completely oppose that idea. Just drop this bullshit.

And people keep focusing on the wrong thing, which is total amount of data. What matters is how fast in milliseconds these systems are, and regardless of how you fight this, one is the clear winner. By a significant margin.

Like Matt from era said, when it comes to I/O, PS5 is more like a I/O focused midgen refresh 4 years from now. Let’s stop downplaying this.

As longs a people (not you) keep saying that this is only possible on the PS5 without giving any context on why. I'm gonna give the 100GB instantly available quote without context given by Microsoft. You can't have it both ways...

 

[Xplainin]

Its crazy to me that people don't see DF bias. Alex (Dictator) is part of that infamous discord group, and Rich is a well known Xbox supporter. Look at his damage control articles in 2013.

Firstly, I was in that xbox discord group and it was nothing other than Xbox players on Era. There was also a PS5 discord group.
Alex was a member of both groups.
Why wouldn't he be? DF should be showing their face in the game community. Show me just one post in discord from Alex saying anything biased or unprofessional. I can tell you there was none, and to be honest, I don't think I ever saw him post in it.
DF is in the gun because they were used by MS to reveal the Xbox One X, and also XSX specs.
I can guarantee you something, if Sony went to DF and asked them to do the PS5 reveal, they would have done that as well.
Sony chose to go to wired magazine.
Theres nothing wrong with Sony using wired, and MS using DF.
Alot of PS owners got their nose out of joint when DF went with Github leaks as probably being real PS5 silicone, and they were right. Github was right.
I dont see them in any way play up Xbox and downplay PS.
If you want to talk about a real stooge, we can talk about Jason Schreier.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Why can't XSX do this? You are purely guessing that the R&C gameplay uses the full potential of the SSD, but you have no figures to back this up. For all we know the XSX is also able to do this with its SSD... 100GB is instantly accessible, how much more do you need?

Can't you read? He doesn't say it's not possible on Series X.

Anyway guys I think we should stop listening to a professional with access to PS5 devkits and instead take the word of X-Fighter, NeoGaf veteran since January...

 

[Fake]

Ask your girlfriend what would she prefer, for you to be faster or more powerful in bed.

Checkmate, Knackrens.

Is this really necessary?

 

[Xplainin]

I will not contradict you, I will only clarify the phrase. Since it is necessary.

It is a reality that XSX can "visually" do Ratchet & Clanck. But, "logistically", it can't be done on XSX. In XSX you cannot do that loading of dimensional portals with that instant. There would be an irreparable stoppage that would affect the gaming experience.

It is true that it is not necessary for all games to make those loadings either. It will depend on the game and its design. So XSX is not limited by visual quality, but it is limited by artistic quality (or the creation of new concepts and ideas applicable to a video game).

Totally limited? No. But it involves a very well thought-out study and a difficulty that does not exist on PS5. That will make studios seriously ask whether to approach the idea or dispense with it on that platform, which can affect the quality of ideas or their variety in games on XSX.

But for the peace of mind of many, CODs will continue to look impressive on XSX (but on PS5 as well).

The medium showed it done already on XSX. In fact the XSX didnt need the one second broken glass load interval screen to do it.

 

[Dodkrake]

How is this not possible on XSX?

There is no such thing as instantly loading a whole new game, there is still a hidden loading screen, see here:

They are basically just jumping, as you can see here:





For a real level change, we are seeing a very long loading screen, the loading screen starts as soon as the camera zooms hin:



I know, there is an announcement trailer but this is all pre-rendered and not true gameplay, see here for true gameplay:

More FUD from the fudmeisters.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Can't you read? He doesn't say it's not possible on Series X.

Anyway guys I think we should stop listening to a professional with access to PS5 devkits and instead take the word of X-Fighter, NeoGaf veteran since January...

Can't you read?

It is a reality that XSX can "visually" do Ratchet & Clanck. But, "logistically", it can't be done on XSX.

He's saying, "in theory they can", but not in practice. Also as far as I know he doesn't have access to PS5 devkits, right? Doesn't he just know people that have?

 

[Xplainin]

Can't you read? He doesn't say it's not possible on Series X.

Anyway guys I think we should stop listening to a professional with access to PS5 devkits and instead take the word of X-Fighter, NeoGaf veteran since January...

Should we listen to one who doesn't have access to a XSX about what is or isnt possible on it?

This stuff is getting silly.
I havent seen anything on XSX or PS5 that I dont think the other console could also do.