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All The Last of Us 2 leaks/spoilers in here and nowhere else.

morelan

Member
Joel is a very cautious character in the first game. He knows that he didn't kill every Firefly in that hospital and that the remaining Fireflies might be searching for him and Ellie. The Fireflies know their name. He told Tommy the whole story and it feels weird that Tommy wouldn't think about the consequences this could bring to their community in Jackson, if the Fireflies decide to hunt Joel and Ellie. As far as I remember it is not known to these characters that the Fireflies are done. So I agree that it does seem out of character in a vacuum for Joel and Tommy to be revealing Joel's name to people they just met.

However, when Tommy says their names to Abby in the context of trying to make a connection with a single survivor they've just met and with whom they're trying to battle against a horde of infected, I don't know, it doesn't feel unnatural. I can see how Tommy would not be alert to the stuff I said above in that specific situation. And there is no reason to lie to the group about their names afterwards if they already told Abby.
 
LOL, never seen so many big streamers completely shit on a single player AAA title like this.
Admiralbahroo, just spent the entire credit scene absolutely shitting on the whole game.
on twitter:

Makes you question the reviews. It's statistically not possible to have so many 10s when the game is apparently this divisive... Death Stranding's reviews were believable, LOU2 seems like everyone is brown nosing Naughty Dog/Druckmann and Sony.

Now three of the reviewers I follow have pretty much not liked the game at all (Cr1tikal, ShillUp, AngryJoe. ACG is the only one missing). Then there are opinions from people who I only follow irregularly which are also negative (like Upper Echelon who was defending the game after the leaks, but is now extremely disappointed). It's exactly what I thought would happen, streamers/youtubers overwhelmingly hate it, while regular game press loves it.
 

nyr88nyg

Banned
Random convo i saw on a sub reddit.

- "So why are people hating on this game"
- "I hear it's because it has girls kissing or something"
- "People are such bigots"

This makes me hate woke garbage even more. Because it becomes a shield. Ever since ghostbusters 2016 it's been like this.

Valid criticism incoming. Activate woke shield"
RACIST
TRANSPHOBIC
HOMOPHOBIC
BIGOT
Attack deflected successfully.

I replied and spoiled the WHOLE fucking game. I was expecting to be downvoted all the way to hell. But people are actually upvoting.
The sad thing is I don’t see this type of logic, or lack thereof, going away anytime soon. 95% of kids are indoctrinated by their lib teachers.
 

Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
The sad thing is I don’t see this type of logic, or lack thereof, going away anytime soon. 95% of kids are indoctrinated by their lib teachers.
Its a cult issue, not a liberal issue. The cult just calls themselves liberals and decries *real* liberals as alt-right.
 

silent head

Member
WnAh2r9.jpg
 

Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
If they are so different why do *real* liberals don't adopt other name for them? If I was a liberal I would never want to be associated with these lunatics.

We do, constantly. Far-left. Woke. SJW. Cults. Ideologues. The issue is that these cunts are teh folks who run social and mainstream media outlets.
 
Time has passed since the first game but they never demonstrate that Joel has softened or lost his edge before the incident. The only information we have to go off of is the Joel we know from the first game, who would not have found himself in that kind of situation.
I don't really buy anything you're saying. They didn't have much choice on where to go and Tommy already told Abby who they were.
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
My opinion on DreamcastGuy's video.

I disagree with it

He explains why Abby is not a good person, but he seems to keep forgetting that Joel killed her father.

He also said Ellie has regrets after killing people, and that's not true. She regretted killing Mel because she was pregnant and that was an innocent life. She didn't regret killing Owen and she didn't know that Owen was responsible for saving Tommy and Ellie's life.
 

lachesis

Member
Well here we go, a review after finishing the whole game earlier and collecting some thoughts. There is no TLDR portion and yes, the game does deserve a 10/10 easily so if you’re going to bash me for the upcoming praise, please, do yourself a favour and just skip to next post.

Background: I knew some of the spoilers and I knew of the certain story and apparent SJW-agenda criticisms before starting the game. I came into it, however with a totally open mind. I will no further discuss things like: lesbian romance, transgender characters or muscular women – all of this is in game but is not the focal point of the narrative and therefore it just is and I accept it as such. Also since the focal point of narrative is none of these things I would also not claim that this game is in any way a SJW-propaganda outside of normalising existing personalities and complexions.

I will also very briefly touch on gameplay: I liked the gameplay in part 1, I replayed that game twice and didn’t get bored. TLOU2 is an iterative improvement and therefore if you didn’t like the original – then you wouldn’t like part 2 anyway, but a lot of people did and I appreciate the grounded-ness of the action as well as additional traversal options like grass, larger and more vertical environments, really opening up options on approaching every encounter. Dogs profoundly changed the idea of how to play an encounter and are a great addition (despite the fact that I hated them with passion, and I killed them all without remorse).

I will also say that I fully see why this game is divisive outside of the two points above and that is because it takes large creative risks and aims higher and bolder than the fans expect or willing to go. I am a huge fan of TLJ because it took bold risks with the core assumptions of the Star Wars to make it grow and be more than just more space adventure but it didn’t fit with what the fans wanted. This game does the same to TLOU2 which is bigger and bolder than it had any right to be. I value big ideas, questions they ask, challenges in my perception they force me to overcome and unease a lot more than comfort food entertainment and this is subjectively my stance.

Let us touch on TLOU quickly. The first game is a classic but at the same time it is a simpler story than part 2 with a lot less depth. Ellie and Joel go through a year meeting people of various degree of awful who all die by the end of a chapter usually. The main story is a father-daughter relationship between Ellie and Joel which we see grow over 12-15 hours and is masterfully executed with supporting cast mainly existing to enhance that growth, give more weight to the world and play off the main duo. The ending of TLOU is considered divisive but I would argue that for most people it was a slightly uplifting ending: Joel’s arc is complete, Ellie chooses to believe him for a time and they go back to a fortified city with food and electricity where they can live pretty much “happily” if that is your headcanon.

Obviously, based on that a lot of people expected part 2 to be more of Joel and Ellie having adventures, just like TLJ was supposed to keep the Abrams drive and action drive the story. Only Naughty Dog did the hard thing and the right thing: they went deeper, the made justice to the world and characters instead of fanbase. They knew it would piss a lot of people off because it’s not a safe sequel, but it is a sequel TLOU deserves.

Joel dies in the first 3 hours of the game. People did not like that. Streamers did not like that. All I have to say is – it’s not an easy scene, it is hard and if you hated it, then you should be totally aligned with how Ellie feels in her need for revenge. In that sense Naughty Dog made everything right. I will also add that despite people wanting to see more Joel the reality is: his arc was complete in the first game. He got a surrogate daughter to raise for a couple of years, he got to retire and be happy. There is no other arc more powerful to him at his age and everything about his character was resolved – however in his death a set up for a major arc for Ellie is strong and Ellie is a protagonist who needed her own arc to be kicked off.

I will not discuss all the plot points, but the themes of this story were awesome and I do genuinely feel bad that leaks and some preconceptions ruined it for a lot of the audience. The tragic story of different factions all trying to achieve piece and prosperity only to end up fighting each other over petty differences is so poignant and actual to current world, to our separation as countries, races, ideologies or dare I say even gaming forums. Our little fiefs each convinced of their desire to practice goodness, each having means to achieve that state, each filled with genuinely diverse people good and bad and conflicted but ending up in pointless hatred toward the other instead of seeing individuals within. All of this is done masterfully with slow build-up at the beginning really paying off as everything falls in place by the end.

We see it of course through WLF and the Seraphites, societies that were founded on their notion of peace only to end up in bloodshed and disaster.

We see it also in parallel through Ellie and Abby. Nobody comes out of this as a hero, but through the crucible of irrational personal hatred everyone is humanised. When I saw Joel die, I told to myself, just as Ellie did, that I would kill every single one of them with utter conviction. And so, I did. When I had to play as Abby, I was forced to see how flawed and scarred she was by what Joel did but I was also forced to witness her being more than a person who brutally murdered a man: capable of goodness, just as her friends were, being conflicted about her purpose, dealing with personal issues of affection and beliefs. I knew that people I met were going to die as I perpetrated that death with conviction and their humanity resonated with me as they did not all deserve what they got. The sniper who led zombies to me and killed Manny was a monstrous dick, but he was also Tommy. The bitch that killed Owen, the upifiting conflicted loyal person in the story, first to see the inhumanity of the conflict between WLF and Seraphites, and his pregnant wife was Ellie.

Does it make the characters bad or unlikeable? For some it may be so but to me it felt more real than anything because everything they did from their perspective was right. They wanted closure, they wanted peace but just as the tribes, they found war and suffering and pain instead. Characters are written cohesively, strongly, they don't betray their identity and I doubt a lot of people would be unmoved by the end of it all as the final confrontation unfolds.

TLOU2 is a second part of what I assume will be at least a trilogy. The second part is supposed to be the most challenging for protagonists, it’s supposed to be darker and the be the lowest point of the story. Neil sacrifices all the sacred cows for this one, creates a hell of a ride and coupled with maybe best setpieces ND has created so far and refined gameplay, this one is easily GOTY material and I don’t think anything can match it up barring Cyberpunk later this year. For PS4 action games it is to me GOTG, above God of War once again in terms of narrative challenge the gameplay being stellar in both.

Lastly, no - this game is not perfect. No game or work of art is and 10/10 doesn't mean perfection in every detail nor should it, it means a stellar whole an acceptance of greatness with all its cracks and imperfections. I will just say that it is known that if people are predisposed to like something, they will often overlook the little things, the nitpicks, the coincidences that fuel almost every plot. But when they are predisposed to hatred, or being challenged especially emotionally – they will find the smallest thing jarring and off-putting. So yes, I know some plot relies on coincidences and minor contrivances, the pacing is not perfect either and Abby is swole AF. It is ironic that the game encapsulates the feeling of an audience bitching about these things to the point of going to Metacritic for 0/0 reviews on launch minute perfectly as they are all Ellie (or Abby) on the same revenge quest for the murder of part 1 (and let’s be honest a lot of headcanon) with that hatred blinding to the fascinating ideas behind part 2 and to all the people making us go through these emotions in this challenging work with general goodness in their heart.

The experience of playing through TLOU2, with no preconceptions and letting the ideas, story and emotions gel into a cohesive whole is a transformative experience and I wish all of you to feel that. It is not a fun game but is an important game with a clear vision and thank Sony for allowing such auteur games to exist with such budget and trust.

10/10 – will replay on PS5.

Parting thoughts: Hospital fight, sky ladders and burning city are worth the price of admission alone. Museum and Aquarium are gorgeous locations. Fuck wall-incrusted shriekers and fuck dogs – shotgun em all.

Appreciate sincerely for your insightful thoughts on the game. Even though there are places that I don't agree - I agree that it is a indeed bold and daring try - commendable? Maybe, or maybe not. Whether it worked or not would differ from individuals.

I actually do wish if they went on that route - just go with Abby's point of view from beginning to the end, with no or few flash backs. A game that's total opposite to the original TLOU, but told with respectful mannter. Make up a brand new Ellie and Joel combo like they did in 1st game. Then on 3rd game, they could collide them, users fully aware and sympathize both sides, then come to an understanding conclusion of forgivness.

Anyhow, I'm sure it's packed with exciting scenery (game does look gorgeous) and all... and in the future I will probably give it a go after my own thoughts on this matter subsides a bit. Probably on PS5, on preferably on a deep sale.
 

Umbral

Member
I don't really buy anything you're saying. They didn't have much choice on where to go and Tommy already told Abby who they were.
That’s the great thing about creativity and writing, it can be rewritten until it makes more sense. They could have also had a long lead up to Joel’s death where they demonstrate he’s losing his edge.

The game can be good while also having poor writing. It’s also possible to like things with bad writing.
 

PanzerAzel

Member
Those parts where you play as younger ellie and joel arround are so good and emotional , man...or when ellie remembers him and do some comment on it...
They really are. Despite the shit writing elsewhere, the Joel and Ellie portions I found fantastic. I actually shed a few tears for Ellie’s imagined journey to space in the capsule. That was genuinely heartfelt and very moving, and felt just like the first game.

Which sucks, as it shows the potential of what could’ve been had Druckmann been able to stop desperately sniffing his own farts.
 
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Humdinger

Member
I'm surprised at what a huge divide there is between normal game journalists and the Youtube reviewers. Almost all the normal game critics have bent over backwards to praise the game as a masterpiece. Whereas almost everyone on Youtube seems to hate the game (or at least think the story and writing stink).

I wonder if this will cause the normal game journalists to question themselves. (haha, j/k)
 
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Makes you question the reviews. It's statistically not possible to have so many 10s when the game is apparently this divisive... Death Stranding's reviews were believable, LOU2 seems like everyone is brown nosing Naughty Dog/Druckmann and Sony.

Now three of the reviewers I follow have pretty much not liked the game at all (Cr1tikal, ShillUp, AngryJoe. ACG is the only one missing). Then there are opinions from people who I only follow irregularly which are also negative (like Upper Echelon who was defending the game after the leaks, but is now extremely disappointed). It's exactly what I thought would happen, streamers/youtubers overwhelmingly hate it, while regular game press loves it.
Tyler1 really ripped the game apart after he finished the game. PewDiePie did not look like he enjoyed playing it either and the vast majority of the comments from his stream videos are negative. There was also a former South Korean pro-Starcraft player called TvCrank who literally cut the discs in half on stream.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Tyler1 really ripped the game apart after he finished the game. PewDiePie did not look like he enjoyed playing it either and the vast majority of the comments from his stream videos are negative. There was also a former South Korean pro-Starcraft player called TvCrank who literally cut the discs in half on stream.
The rumour is Sony purposely sent copies to web sites knowing they'll give good scores (brown nosing for future freebies and not get blacklisted), while Youtubers were mostly shut out because they are more like bloggers who are unpredictable.

I read that somewhere here or Reeee as a plausible explanation, that's why so many reviews after that day one embargo are so bad vs. all the 10/10s from people who got gold copies of the game weeks ago and posted a 10/10 asap.
 
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That’s the great thing about creativity and writing, it can be rewritten until it makes more sense. They could have also had a long lead up to Joel’s death where they demonstrate he’s losing his edge.

The game can be good while also having poor writing. It’s also possible to like things with bad writing.

I don't agree with your standards for good writing. I reject your hypotheses entirely.
 

MiguelItUp

Member
The game can be good while also having poor writing. It’s also possible to like things with bad writing.
Right? It can still be enjoyable. To each their own of course. Personally I don't understand how people can say the writing in TLOU2 is above average.

It's awesome that people can have opinions. But some are out there, lol.

The Last Jedi's story was a bizarre mess, but it was entertaining enough to sit through. Never watched it more than once.
 
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Madflavor

Member
I can definitely get behind people liking the story, but today I've been seeing people finishing the game calling the story a "masterpiece" or a "10/10"

That just seems crazy to me. There are so many revenge stories out there that did a so much better job than this, not to mention the structure and pacing is all over the place.
 
The rumour is Sony purposely sent copies to web sites knowing they'll give good scores (brown nosing for future freebies and not get blacklisted), while Youtubers were mostly shut out because they are more like bloggers who are unpredictable.

I read that somewhere here or Reeee as a plausible explanation, that's why so many reviews after that day one embargo are so bad vs. all the 10/10s from people who got gold copies of the game weeks ago and posted a 10/10 asap.
It’s the privilege of access that these gaming sites badly crave for. They get a lot of revenue from that access that others don’t have. It’s the reason why a lot of those 10/10 reviews are seen as “paid”, not because money was given under the table, but access is being dangled as the carrot on a stick.
 

Camreezie

Member
My opinion on DreamcastGuy's video.

I disagree with it

He explains why Abby is not a good person, but he seems to keep forgetting that Joel killed her father.

He also said Ellie has regrets after killing people, and that's not true. She regretted killing Mel because she was pregnant and that was an innocent life. She didn't regret killing Owen and she didn't know that Owen was responsible for saving Tommy and Ellie's life.
This , Ellie is a shitty person in this game as well as Abby. She is also willing to throw away the only thing left in her life in sight of a revenge she then chooses to not take.
 
So I just got to The Big Protagonist Switcheroo part of the game (was playing unspoiled, but not anymore, I'll explain why in a second).

I had really enjoyed the first half and considered it a GOTY contender up until now, but this is an extremely off-putting heel turn coming right after such a major cliffhanger. So now I can't figure out what happens to Ellie until I play through HOURS of flashbacks as this other character that we don't really know anything about yet?

Had a big no thanks moment and started reading endgame spoilers. It would have been such a slog to push through THAT many hours just to continue the cliffhanger cutscene.

Now I'm trying to gather the enthusiasm to continue the game. I don't like that my skill tree and weapon upgrades have been reset all the way back to square one. I don't think the rest of the story sounds very interesting. But I'm gonna push forward and try to enjoy the rest of this for what it is.

I anticipate that my final verdict will be that this is a game that is incredible for the first half then sputters to the finish line and falls completely flat for the entire second half. But I'm gonna keep playing and give the rest it's chance.
 
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PanzerAzel

Member
This is a game that keeps on giving.

Just got to Lev, then went up against an axe wielding she hulk who'd give Andre the Giant a run for his money and made Abby look like Frodo Baggins. I just don't understand why the game has to continually go to this extent. It's one thing after the other. You could easily remain progressive without these changes, borne solely from nothing but ideology, and that stick out like a sore thumb in the context of the world. I just can't buy into any of this and it's actively pulling me out of the experience. Are the Sepharites intended to be freaks due to genetic experimentation? I feel like I'm missing something that the narrative isn't explaining. For a game that started off as very grounded and plausible in its fiction, these aspects are laughably out of place and artificial.
 
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Gamer79

Predicts the worst decade for Sony starting 2022
They really should have given custom difficulty for your first time through. I’m feeling a lot of the same things. Specifically with everybody I kill having no rounds left in their gun. It’s false. I would have simply kept everything as is, but bumped up resources on custom difficulty. I’ve been walking around with 1-3 rounds in my guns, if they’re not completely empty.

Ellie should borrow Jill’s ammo loader.

Update: I really, really dislike Dina. She is awful. She’s gotten me killed 3-4 times and has blocked my exit from a tight space probably 10 or so times. She’s also gotten me busted in stealth because she was clogging my route and I couldn’t move.

I don’t buy that her and Ellie have a strong bond at all. If I was Ellie’s friend, I’d tell her to get the hell away from that woman.
5lOE0g49o_hCoQgl4DHGSpE8nUVVYNsCJek0ldk2Ysg.png
 

Gamer79

Predicts the worst decade for Sony starting 2022
In Layman's terms. A story arc normally goes up then down then up again. This story arc is dead flat. Not my kinda thing.
 

JORMBO

Darkness no more
Got to the second half. They sent a very visibly pregnant woman out on a mission with Abby 🤣

And in the first half Dina tells Ellie she is pregnant. Then the babies dad randomly shows up in the middle of Seattle the next day only to get shot after Ellie tells him he is the father. 🤣

The writing is so bad.
 

Madflavor

Member
After marinating on this game's story and the reception toward it since late Thursday, I've come to the conclusion that the people rating it a 0-3/10 or a 10/10, both need to get a grip. As is usually the case, the truth tends to lie somewhere in the middle when you got something this divisive. Yeah it's stupid to bring up "truth" in something that's supposed to be subjective, but I think (and this will never happen), both sides would be better off if they just reached a consensus the TLoU2 is an incredibly well presented, but flawed story. The people calling the game trash are being entirely disingenuous to the many things this game's story manages to get right and do well. The people calling it a 10/10 masterpiece, are blatantly ignoring, or don't see the obvious issues with the pacing, structure, and question choices/motivations made by characters.

One thing I definitely know for certain, this is without question The Last Jedi all over again. Everything I'm seeing in terms of the reception and infighting is beat for beat the same. Very divisive, people who love it are calling the haters bots, bigots and a vocal minority, people who hate it are calling defenders shills, retards, sjws, etc, and you've got Rian Johns-I mean Neil Druckmann being a sarcastic prick about it all on Twitter.
 
After marinating on this game's story and the reception toward it since late Thursday, I've come to the conclusion that the people rating it a 0-3/10 or a 10/10, both need to get a grip. As is usually the case, the truth tends to lie somewhere in the middle when you got something this divisive. Yeah it's stupid to bring up "truth" in something that's supposed to be subjective, but I think (and this will never happen), both sides would be better off if they just reached a consensus the TLoU2 is an incredibly well presented, but flawed story. The people calling the game trash are being entirely disingenuous to the many things this game's story manages to get right and do well. The people calling it a 10/10 masterpiece, are blatantly ignoring, or don't see the obvious issues with the pacing, structure, and question choices/motivations made by characters.

One thing I definitely know for certain, this is without question The Last Jedi all over again. Everything I'm seeing in terms of the reception and infighting is beat for beat the same. Very divisive, people who love it are calling the haters bots, bigots and a vocal minority, people who hate it are calling defenders shills, retards, sjws, etc, and you've got Rian Johns-I mean Neil Druckmann being a sarcastic prick about it all on Twitter.

Man, if only all people playing it were so enlightened and could see the unignorable flaws and appreciate the objectively good things about it. Honestly not seeing how his tweets read like a prick, I kinda admire he's not letting this shit get him emotional. The problem with the Last Jedi comparison is I was told TLJ was such a problem because of how it handled a BELOVED character who had been a presence in media since 1977, a legitimate icon being deconstructed. That's not Joel Miller, his first appearance was in 2013 and he was a flawed, layered character that wasn't meant to be anyone's icon.
 

morelan

Member
I really disagree with people criticizing Joel's death. It's perfect because it fits the game's world so well. No one in this world "deserves" a better or an heroic death just because of what they have been trough or because "we like them so much". When there is so much fighting going on it is much more likely that deaths are going to be sudden, gratuitous, gory etc. And the game NEEDS the kind of death that makes Ellie want to kill everyone involved with it.

The problem is trying to have us empathize with the killer after half the game. I can see why it didn't work for a lot of people. As I'ven seen some people say, I would prefer if this game just had been about Abby the entire time, so that they could develop the character better, and then they made TLOU3 about their confrontation, or something like that.
 

Neolombax

Member
Joel doesn't offer up the information Tommy does and I don't see how it contradicts Tommy's character. Joel was a ruthless person in the first game I won't deny that but I also won't deny that the idea seems to be but life has been leading since has changed him not to mention the influence of Ellie even then all he does is not call Tommy a liar. Which would be a weird thing to do anyways. I agree with the idea of survival but I don't agree with the idea that Joel should realize part of surviving is not letting someone know his name. is because you have the gift of hindsight that you realize someone knowing his name is important but why should Joel understand that

Didn't Tommy only introduced Joel as his brother, and did not mention his name. Joel was the one who gave up his name to the group,right after Tommy does this.

I think the issue with this whole thing is that ND seemed to have completely changed Joel's character without showing how and why he changed. Instead a bunch of us here are trying to justify his actions. Its not alluded in any way in the story, so people are calling jt sloppy writing.
 
Didn't Tommy only introduced Joel as his brother, and did not mention his name. Joel was the one who gave up his name to the group,right after Tommy does this.

I think the issue with this whole thing is that ND seemed to have completely changed Joel's character without showing how and why he changed. Instead a bunch of us here are trying to justify his actions. Its not alluded in any way in the story, so people are calling jt sloppy writing.

No, he names both of them to Abby. But in the scene that leaked, yes, he just calls him his brother... but he told Abby in a previous scene that Joel was Joel. I guess Joel could have asked why he was giving out names? But at that point she was just one person they saved the life of, it'd be weird to be worried and Tommy was doing it because he assumed she was in a state of shock, he talked to her like you do someone who's been through a trauma and you want to get them to focus on something else.
 

REE Machine

Banned
Hi all so I'm going to talk about Joel's Death, IM only on Seattle day 1 so please don't spoil and reply to me with something, i just wanted to convey how i felt they did Joel's death

I liked it and it needed to happen, especially early in the game. You cant have a narrative about hate and revenge and have his death in the middle or end, this is the driving force for Ellie. Also it had to be Joel, no one was as close to Ellie that him, sure or seemed their relationship was rocky at times but whose isn't between a father and daughter. His death was meant for impact and the one absolute thing that would push Ellie over the edge, Dina's death wouldn't have meant soothing especially because her character was not well established.

Or of all the characters it was the smart move, out ofall the characters who hah or coming, Joel had it the most. He's has killed hundreds of people and took the cure for mankind and use his own motivations to stop and murder fireflies and doctors etc. The sins of his part in the first game were bound to catch up to him, he knew leaving that hospital he would be a dead man one day and someone would come for him, why do you think he wasn't surprised? Joel is a bad man who has done good things, Tommy is a good man who has done bad things.


to the people like angry joe who say "this game didn't earn it " yes it did, and how? Because its Part 2 of and already long journey. This isn't the last of us: revenge of Ellie, its the last of us part 2. The game is directly connected to the events of the first. Theoretically when wet play as Joel in the first few min of this game wet are essentially finishing up part 1 of the last of us, it only transitions to part 2 and Ellie story after Joel hands her the gee-tar as he states which is in essence him passing the torch toher, part 2 doesnt officially start until the name card for the game pops up after the gee-tar aka torch was passed.

thinking of Joel as well, what do you think would have been worse for him? Seeing Ellie one last time before his death, or seeing another one of his daughters murdered infront of him again? If Ellie died Joel probabky would have jusy offed himself because he had enough of the cruel world and hand he was given, Ellie was his peace and solace.

Did i live joel as a character? Absolutely, but his story was done being told, he was content and happy with his life.
 

ZZZZ

Member
So I just got to The Big Protagonist Switcheroo part of the game (was playing unspoiled, but not anymore, I'll explain why in a second).

I had really enjoyed the first half and considered it a GOTY contender up until now, but this is an extremely off-putting heel turn coming right after such a major cliffhanger. So now I can't figure out what happens to Ellie until I play through HOURS of flashbacks as this other character that we don't really know anything about yet?

Had a big no thanks moment and started reading endgame spoilers. It would have been such a slog to push through THAT many hours just to continue the cliffhanger cutscene.

Now I'm trying to gather the enthusiasm to continue the game. I don't like that my skill tree and weapon upgrades have been reset all the way back to square one. I don't think the rest of the story sounds very interesting. But I'm gonna push forward and try to enjoy the rest of this for what it is.

I anticipate that my final verdict will be that this is a game that is incredible for the first half then sputters to the finish line and falls completely flat for the entire second half. But I'm gonna keep playing and give the rest it's chance.
Don't worry you got plenty of teenage love triangle drama to get you through the Abby part.
 
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Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
Hi all so I'm going to talk about Joel's Death, IM only on Seattle day 1 so please don't spoil and reply to me with something, i just wanted to convey how i felt they did Joel's death

I liked it and it needed to happen, especially early in the game. You cant have a narrative about hate and revenge and have his death in the middle or end, this is the driving force for Ellie. Also it had to be Joel, no one was as close to Ellie that him, sure or seemed their relationship was rocky at times but whose isn't between a father and daughter. His death was meant for impact and the one absolute thing that would push Ellie over the edge, Dina's death wouldn't have meant soothing especially because her character was not well established.

Or of all the characters it was the smart move, out ofall the characters who hah or coming, Joel had it the most. He's has killed hundreds of people and took the cure for mankind and use his own motivations to stop and murder fireflies and doctors etc. The sins of his part in the first game were bound to catch up to him, he knew leaving that hospital he would be a dead man one day and someone would come for him, why do you think he wasn't surprised? Joel is a bad man who has done good things, Tommy is a good man who has done bad things.


to the people like angry joe who say "this game didn't earn it " yes it did, and how? Because its Part 2 of and already long journey. This isn't the last of us: revenge of Ellie, its the last of us part 2. The game is directly connected to the events of the first. Theoretically when wet play as Joel in the first few min of this game wet are essentially finishing up part 1 of the last of us, it only transitions to part 2 and Ellie story after Joel hands her the gee-tar as he states which is in essence him passing the torch toher, part 2 doesnt officially start until the name card for the game pops up after the gee-tar aka torch was passed.

thinking of Joel as well, what do you think would have been worse for him? Seeing Ellie one last time before his death, or seeing another one of his daughters murdered infront of him again? If Ellie died Joel probabky would have jusy offed himself because he had enough of the cruel world and hand he was given, Ellie was his peace and solace.

Did i live joel as a character? Absolutely, but his story was done being told, he was content and happy with his life.

The issue isn't that Joel died. It was never that Joel died. The issue has always been *how* he died as the entire scene he acts completely counter to his character. He isn't one to immediately open up and trust folks like that. He wouldn't put himself in a situation like that. There are a thousand ways that they could have had Abby and her crew kill off Joel in a manner that doesn't force him to act out of character. Force him in a situation where he runs into a dead end after being chased by Infected. Have him get killed by infected after Abby and Co. make noise. Have him explore and suddenly get attacked or captured and *then* tortured/killed.

Any and all of these ideas (and far more if you look at TLOU2 reddit, discords, and other social media/forum posts) are better than what they did.
 

scalman

Member
I thought both girls looks best in last scene , new abby's haircut much better similar to ellies, just great,wonder would ellie go against her city her people like that how abby did. They should made abby in that haircut trough all game or like make it option on second run maybe. But we cant even change their clothes now? We could in first game bags too.
And controller speaker is not used this time as it was in remaster.
And if anything abby is becoming more and more likeable with time so guess it depends on everyones feelings about all this situation, at least i see her and her change later in game is just great.
 
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