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[Zathalus]

When another year rolls around and a Playstation exclusive game gets lauded for incredible graphics you can bet your ass that VFXVeteren will be there shitting on them. It's been happening for almost 5 years at this point.

 

[tommib]

When another year rolls around and a Playstation exclusive game gets lauded for incredible graphics you can bet your ass that VFXVeteren will be there shitting on them. It's been happening for almost 5 years at this point.

Not only one exclusive, two.

Spoiler

 

[alabtrosMyster]

It does look lovely from a distance but when you get up close to anything it looks like a PS1 gamehttps://ibb.co/tJpkym6

I would love to see a game that doesn't break visually when you get closer than anticipated.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

When another year rolls around and a Playstation exclusive game gets lauded for incredible graphics you can bet your ass that VFXVeteren will be there shitting on them. It's been happening for almost 5 years at this point.

The guy apparently has expertise, so his opinion, no matter how misleading it is, carries weight.... Yet so wrong his name here is almost a parody.

 

[NXGamer]

You are seeing shadow maps from a proxy hair primitive. I have programmed this stuff before and know exactly what I'm seeing.

1) You can't use shadow maps on individual fur primitives because they are too small to be captured into a shadow map of any resolution. It's just not accurate. Imagine trying to sample a straight line into a grid of pixels to capture that straight line. You'd need damn near infinite resolution to capture it.

2) Ambient occlusion can only be done in 2 ways - both of which I did even before Pixar implemented their own ambient occlusion for fur. 1) You have to create a point cloud of all the fur primitives and then you have to sample from that point cloud. No game is going to do that in realtime. The other way is ray-tracing ambient occlusion. And we all know that that's not happening anytime soon.


Pulling the camera up close to trick the gameplay into rendering all the primitives isn't my way of trying to claim that a game has highly detailed fur primitives. That's a dishonest way of skirting the facts. I would never do that. I judge the game based on how it's meant to be played. But you do you.

I am really not sure what hoops you are jumping through, games always, repeat, ALWAYS, pull tricks to render or deliver an effect. As do films at certain points.

1) The fact is the Fur in the game and in the cinematics has self-shadowing/occlusion shadows being cast upon itself and is almost certainly using a combination of Hair Card textures and then strand meshes for the shorter sections.
These are the elements that are being shadowed as they are from the strand mesh and can be mixed in with the larger shells around the eyebrows, ears etc. You shadow anything that is a mesh and this is most likely we we are seeing from the small/shorter splines, UE5 does this with nanite to render shadow maps per triangle also, as small as they need to go.

2) You are saying you beat Pixar in rendering AO for fur, so before Monsters Inc then in Renderman? Again, you are referring to film techniques and saying the only way. Do you also have the view that GI or real-time reflections in games can only be done via Ray Tracing then?

Pulling the camera up-close in gameplay is gameplay, I mean how it is not?

Just like having a real-time cinematic is real-time, why are you moving goalposts and making straw men on the conversation? Nothing I have said is dishonest, for you I am not so sure though.

This conversation is really Moo at this point, like a Cow's opinion ;-)

 

[xHunter]

Not only one exclusive, two.

Spoiler

Holy shit, didnt even notice it at first. His first post picked the only 2 sony games from a list of 9.

 

[Tripolygon]

You can see it in this gif.

The volumetrics in the second level look stunning. Sadly the game never looks this good after this level.

Just wanted to highlight this gif again to show why this game is on so many lists. Particles everywhere.

 

[Flutta]

I am really not sure what hoops you are jumping through, games always, repeat, ALWAYS, pull tricks to render or deliver an effect. As do films at certain points.

1) The fact is the Fur in the game and in the cinematics has self-shadowing/occlusion shadows being cast upon itself and is almost certainly using a combination of Hair Card textures and then strand meshes for the shorter sections.
These are the elements that are being shadowed as they are from the strand mesh and can be mixed in with the larger shells around the eyebrows, ears etc. You shadow anything that is a mesh and this is most likely we we are seeing from the small/shorter splines, UE5 does this with nanite to render shadow maps per triangle also, as small as they need to go.

2) You are saying you beat Pixar in rendering AO for fur, so before Monsters Inc then in Renderman? Again, you are referring to film techniques and saying the only way. Do you also have the view that GI or real-time reflections in games can only be done via Ray Tracing then?

Pulling the camera up-close in gameplay is gameplay, I mean how it is not?

Just like having a real-time cinematic is real-time, why are you moving goalposts and making straw men on the conversation? Nothing I have said is dishonest, for you I am not so sure though.

This conversation is really Moo at this point, like a Cow's opinion ;-)

Dont waste your time on this vetted troll. His strong hate for good looking PS games got no limits. He’s been exposed before, not long ago actually .

 

[Jaysen]

Returnal hides its beauty a lot of the time in dark moody lighting, but it’s a beautiful game. Hope they hurry up with the DLC.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Dont waste your time on this vetted troll. His strong hate for good looking PS games got no limits. He’s been exposed before, not long ago actually .

I'm sure that back when Mortal Kombat was released he would have said that the characters look like they were drawn by toddlers if the game was made by Sony.

 

[SlimySnake]

I kinda kinda get what vfx is saying. I have never liked these different LODs for the main character in games. I thought the ssd would fix that by having higher quality assets and models in memory at all times. Yes, the gpu would still have to render that higher LOD model at all times but I’d rather they do that than waste the gpu resources on rendering native 4k pixels.

I love what gg is doing with Aloys hero lighting. You are basically getting cutscene quality lighting in gameplay. I think every next Gen game needs to do this.

P.s i recall making a comparison using Ellies face while riding a horse. It looks like shit devoid of any detail. When you put her up close she looks very close to the cutscene model apart from the lighting. Nah they should use the best lod model for the main character at all times and add hero lighting. She’s the main attraction and needs to look best.

 

[kyliethicc]

I kinda kinda get what vfx is saying. I have never liked these different LODs for the main character in games. I thought the ssd would fix that by having higher quality assets and models in memory at all times. Yes, the gpu would still have to render that higher LOD model at all times but I’d rather they do that than waste the gpu resources on rendering native 4k pixels.

I love what gg is doing with Aloys hero lighting. You are basically getting cutscene quality lighting in gameplay. I think every next Gen game needs to do this.

P.s i recall making a comparison using Ellies face while riding a horse. It looks like shit devoid of any detail. When you put her up close she looks very close to the cutscene model apart from the lighting. Nah they should use the best lod model for the main character at all times and add hero lighting. She’s the main attraction and needs to look best.

The reason why Ellie's face looks different from far away in a wide shot using a wide angle lens in a snowstorm, compared to up close in a close up using a narrow angle lens indoors, is because one of them is from far away in a wide shot using a wide angle lens in a snowstorm, while the other is up close in a close up using a narrow angle lens indoors.

 

[Topher]

I would agree. My mistake since people literally dissect all my words to try finding flaws or holes in it.

Dissect? Come on dude.....let's not pretend what you said was some subtle phrase buried in layers of jargon that I surgically extracted and highlighted out of context.

The fur disappears in gameplay. It's quite noticeable.

Sometimes it is just better to say "my mistake" and leave it at that.

 

[rofif]

I kinda kinda get what vfx is saying. I have never liked these different LODs for the main character in games. I thought the ssd would fix that by having higher quality assets and models in memory at all times. Yes, the gpu would still have to render that higher LOD model at all times but I’d rather they do that than waste the gpu resources on rendering native 4k pixels.

I love what gg is doing with Aloys hero lighting. You are basically getting cutscene quality lighting in gameplay. I think every next Gen game needs to do this.

P.s i recall making a comparison using Ellies face while riding a horse. It looks like shit devoid of any detail. When you put her up close she looks very close to the cutscene model apart from the lighting. Nah they should use the best lod model for the main character at all times and add hero lighting. She’s the main attraction and needs to look best.

Honestly, start up model gallary in tlou2. These are the most detailed models I've ever seen.
The viewer gallery models bring down ps4 framerate alone to a crawl.
Obviously these are so crazy high models. Maybe even higher than some cutscenes

like wow

 

[Sosokrates]

Rivets and ratchets fur is nothing to write home about but the RT, geometry, object density and number of light sources and effects makes it one of the best looking current gen games so far, imo.

 

[Insane Metal]

Always the same suspects laughing at Ratchet & Clank, weird.

Anyway the game looks freaking nuts. Deserved. Good to see FH5 there too.

 

[Imtjnotu]

Just wanted to highlight this gif again to show why this game is on so many lists. Particles everywhere.

Ya the particles look good but the fur in this game isn't up to par

 

[Spitfire098]

 

[bargeparty]

I kinda kinda get what vfx is saying. I have never liked these different LODs for the main character in games. I thought the ssd would fix that by having higher quality assets and models in memory at all times. Yes, the gpu would still have to render that higher LOD model at all times but I’d rather they do that than waste the gpu resources on rendering native 4k pixels.

I love what gg is doing with Aloys hero lighting. You are basically getting cutscene quality lighting in gameplay. I think every next Gen game needs to do this.

P.s i recall making a comparison using Ellies face while riding a horse. It looks like shit devoid of any detail. When you put her up close she looks very close to the cutscene model apart from the lighting. Nah they should use the best lod model for the main character at all times and add hero lighting. She’s the main attraction and needs to look best.

we using compressed youtube videos to judge visual fidelity now?

 

[ethomaz]

I’m feeling bad for VFXVeteran… he just got owned in several ways in this thread.

Let’s hope he doesn’t play the victim card again lol

 

[SlimySnake]

we using compressed youtube videos to judge visual fidelity now?

lol are you serious? BOTH screenshots are from the same youtube video. both are compressed. One looks better.

We are using our EYES. Anyone who has played any game ever knows that the cutscene models always have better LOD than the gameplay model.

 

[bargeparty]

lol are you serious? BOTH screenshots are from the same youtube video. both are compressed. One looks better.

We are using our EYES. Anyone who has played any game ever knows that the cutscene models always have better LOD than the gameplay model.

I don't think you know how detail and distance and compression even work...

 

[SlimySnake]

Honestly, start up model gallary in tlou2. These are the most detailed models I've ever seen.
The viewer gallery models bring down ps4 framerate alone to a crawl.
Obviously these are so crazy high models. Maybe even higher than some cutscenes

like wow

Yep. Same was true for Uncharted 4. This gif made the rounds back then and this was her MP model.

The hero lighting in the cutscene viewer is also partially responsible for making her look so much better in the character viewer.

I know it would bring the ps4 framerate down, but we are talking about the PS5 here. A console with a GPU roughly 8x more powerful after IPC gains. Id rather they use the highest quality models than waste the GPU on rendering native 4k 40 fps.

 

[rofif]

Yep. Same was true for Uncharted 4. This gif made the rounds back then and this was her MP model.

The hero lighting in the cutscene viewer is also partially responsible for making her look so much better in the character viewer.

I know it would bring the ps4 framerate down, but we are talking about the PS5 here. A console with a GPU roughly 8x more powerful after IPC gains. Id rather they use the highest quality models than waste the GPU on rendering native 4k 40 fps.

Interesting, if they could swap at least main player model with this super high quality one on ps5

 

[Boglin]

All this talk about dissecting comments is ridiculous. Nobody could possibly mistake hyperbole for a candid opinion which is why no one would ever bent out of shape when it's said that R&C looks like a Pixar movie.

 

[VFXVeteran]

1) The fact is the Fur in the game and in the cinematics has self-shadowing/occlusion shadows being cast upon itself and is almost certainly using a combination of Hair Card textures and then strand meshes for the shorter sections.

That is NOT ambient occlusion. I am not talking about the inaccurate shadow maps from proxy geometry cards. That method isn't going to look good at all. Which is the reason ALL hair in ALL games have crude shading. I'm not picking on R&C specifically. I'm saying R&C isn't doing ANYTHING different with regards to their technique to get shaded hair as any other game.

These are the elements that are being shadowed as they are from the strand mesh and can be mixed in with the larger shells around the eyebrows, ears etc. You shadow anything that is a mesh and this is most likely we we are seeing from the small/shorter splines, UE5 does this with nanite to render shadow maps per triangle also, as small as they need to go.

Again, that's not ambient occlusion. The only way to get more accurate self-shadowing is by ambient occlusion. ANY graphics programmer from ANY field will tell you that. We do not stop at shading hair just by using shadowed textured cards that are at low levels of polygons. Again, the shading will NOT look correct with various lights' positions. I didn't even go into the Kajia hair shader that most games use which is a very cheap hack approximation and far inferior to Marschner. This will also be a thing later down the road when someone actually implements it and praise how awesome hair looks.. I'll again be correct.

2) You are saying you beat Pixar in rendering AO for fur, so before Monsters Inc then in Renderman? Again, you are referring to film techniques and saying the only way. Do you also have the view that GI or real-time reflections in games can only be done via Ray Tracing then?

Mike, yes. I beat them to it. Monsters Inc 1 didn't use ambient occlusion. And our company did and showed it to the developers at Pixar.

Please stop saying that games are games and film is film. I've worked on realtime shaders and the code is absolutely very similar and I know all the tricks they use. The tricks are only there because the hardware isn't fast enough. Period. Eventually as we have seen, more accurate and better shading/lighting will hit games - which I stressed years ago (i.e. promoting ray-tracing) and got flak for it - and yet, here we are - having realtime ray-traced lighting scenes.

Pulling the camera up-close in gameplay is gameplay, I mean how it is not?

That's a trick too. It stresses the GPU less to have it render the hair all the time at a fixed distance. You can never accomplish anything in the game by walking up to a wall just to see the hair.

 

[VFXVeteran]

I’m feeling bad for VFXVeteran… he just got owned in several ways in this thread.

Let’s hope he doesn’t play the victim card again lol

You are delusional if you think NXGamer or anyone here on these boards "owned" me in telling me about hair shading. Sorry.. that does not compute.

 

[ethomaz]

You are delusional if you think NXGamer or anyone here on these boards "owned" me in telling me about hair shading. Sorry.. that does not compute.

Man… your face is really trick

You were caught lying and still post like you were in the right lol

 

[freefornow]

This conversation is really Moo at this point, like a Cow's opinion ;-)

 

[VFXVeteran]

Man… your face is really trick

You were caught lying and still post like you were in the right lol

If you are talking about my hyperbolic statement about no hair? Hahahaha! You got me! I feel so ashamed..

there.. is that better for you?

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

When another year rolls around and a Playstation exclusive game gets lauded for incredible graphics you can bet your ass that VFXVeteren will be there shitting on them. It's been happening for almost 5 years at this point.

He does it in every forum he's a part of until he gets banned.
Look him up under his current name and Shaderhacker.

I know this because I been quoting his bs at all of these places. I know him but he doesn't know who I am

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

If you are talking about my hyperbolic statement about no hair? Hahahaha! You got me! I feel so ashamed..

there.. is that better for you?

Bruh that's no apology.
At least give a proper one and gain some respect for yourself.

 

[VFXVeteran]

He does it in every forum he's a part of until he gets banned.
Look him up under his current name and Shaderhacker.

I know this because I been quoting his bs at all of these places. I know him but he doesn't know who I am

Why do you Sony fans try your best to attack my character instead of the discussion at hand when I don't "see" what you "see"? It's automatically an attack because you can't defend what you don't have knowledge of. It's sad.

Speaking of bans, I've watched all year how many of you got banned and tried to come back in under different usernames. Don't think because I didn't post that I didn't see the bans happening. So the lot of you get banned all the time as well. Again, you derail the thread by trying to get off subject by attacking me. It's your technique on getting me banned. Pathetic.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Bruh that's no apology.
At least give a proper one and gain some respect for yourself.

I don't care to gain respect from any of you. You don't respect me in the slightest despite my career. At this point, I don't care.

 

[ethomaz]

If you are talking about my hyperbolic statement about no hair? Hahahaha! You got me! I feel so ashamed..

there.. is that better for you?

I understood now.

You were hyperbolic hoping nobody remembered or checked if it was true or not.

Do you still want respect, Mr. Professional Victim?

 

[VFXVeteran]

I understood now.

You were hyperbolic hoping nobody remembered or checked if it was true or not.

Do you still want respect, Mr. Professional Victim?

pfft... carry on bro. Accept that I don't see the hair in any game to look marvelous like you do. One day you'll eventually see what I see..

 

[rofif]

Why do you Sony fans try your best to attack my character instead of the discussion at hand when I don't "see" what you "see"? It's automatically an attack because you can't defend what you don't have knowledge of. It's sad.

Speaking of bans, I've watched all year how many of you got banned and tried to come back in under different usernames. Don't think because I didn't post that I didn't see the bans happening. So the lot of you get banned all the time as well. Again, you derail the thread by trying to get off subject by attacking me. It's your technique on getting me banned. Pathetic.

I am not really a part of this discussion but nobody is attacking anybody.
You made a statement and other people posted their opinion and examples why they don't agree (including me)
You are free to post your reasoning and examples. That's what the thread is about.
I guarantee nobody will bother you, if you can back up your statements. You usually do just that so I am not sure what's happening today ?

edit: If You just went hyperbolic, then it's also ok. Just don't keep going in that direciton.

 

[ethomaz]

pfft... carry on bro. Accept that I don't see the hair in any game to look marvelous like you do. One day you'll eventually see what I see..

See what exactly? You said you can’t see the fur but I clearly can see it.

So I need to get my eyes worst?

 

[Hobbygaming]

 

[VFXVeteran]

See what exactly? You said you can’t see the fur but I clearly can see it.

So I need to get my eyes worst?

ethomaz it's not about my hyperbolic statement about the hair being non-existent. It's about the hair not looking good and is just like all the other hair from all the other games. That's when this entire thread got you guys in a hissy fit. I proved my dislike by sharing how inferior the hair is to the real solution regardless of whether it's offline or realtime. I have seen and implemented a much better solution, so I am entitled to my opinion. You guys just need to accept what I say and move on.. but you go into me being banned from other sites (when you yourself have been banned on this very site), how I'm trolling the Sony exclusives, how I don't know what I'm seeing and teasing my stupid title.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Why do you Sony fans try your best to attack my character instead of the discussion at hand when I don't "see" what you "see"? It's automatically an attack because you can't defend what you don't have knowledge of. It's sad.

Speaking of bans, I've watched all year how many of you got banned and tried to come back in under different usernames. Don't think because I didn't post that I didn't see the bans happening. So the lot of you get banned all the time as well. Again, you derail the thread by trying to get off subject by attacking me. It's your technique on getting me banned.

Sony fan? I am a fan of many gaming machines.
You are just mad Sony's consoles have put out better visuals then your PC's and this is reflected by it's punnie consoles beating PC in awards years after years.

You didn't watch me, this is my only account since being here.
I was a on and off dweller for years.
I do have accounts at other places that you been however...

I don't care to gain respect from any of you. You don't respect me in the slightest despite my career. At this point, I don't care.

You are wrong but to much of a arrogant prick to admit it? Ok
You self inflict everything people give you.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Sony fan? I am a fan of many gaming machines.
You are just mad Sony's consoles have put out better visuals then your PC's and this is reflected by it's punnie consoles beating PC in awards years after years.

Oh wow. So now you want to steer this entire thread and make it about PC vs. consoles? Do you really want to go down the rabbit hole and disregard the warning thread made by the mods? Haven't you guys been banned enough last year over this very topic?

You didn't watch me, this is my only account since being here.
I was a on and off dweller for years.
I do have accounts at other places that you been however...

So what? That means nothing.

You are wrong but to much of a arrogant prick to admit it? Ok
You self inflict everything people give you.

Ok. So be it. Drop it now and move on.

 

[Edgelord79]

Music intensifies.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Oh wow. So now you want to steer this entire thread and make it about PC vs. consoles? Do you really want to go down the rabbit hole and disregard the warning thread made by the mods? Haven't you guys been banned enough last year over this very topic?


So what? That means nothing.


Ok. So be it. Drop it now and move on.

You made it a vs thing like you do every time consoles have won best visuals awards.
I don't know who these guys you are referring to are?

It means you have a history.
I would say it's time to change your history but you are to good for that.

 

[VFXVeteran]

You made it a vs thing like you do every time consoles have won best visuals awards.
I don't know who these guys you are referring to are?

It means you have a history.
I would say it's time to change your history but you are to good for that.

VFXVeteran said "The fur on Ratchet is horrendous. Games still can't create a good hair shader that holds up. The shader that I developed for film is way too expensive for videogames in realtime. R&C is using actual curves for geometry but the shading/lighting looks just as bad as most games - especially in gameplay."

I don't see a "vs" thing at all in that comment. It was an opinion that YOU guys didn't like. Not a single PC vs. anything in that paragraph.

 

[Venom Snake]

 

[adamsapple]

Picturized. Riky and VFXVeteran fighting off the onslaught.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

VFXVeteran said "The fur on Ratchet is horrendous. Games still can't create a good hair shader that holds up. The shader that I developed for film is way too expensive for videogames in realtime. R&C is using actual curves for geometry but the shading/lighting looks just as bad as most games - especially in gameplay."

I don't see a "vs" thing at all in that comment. It was an opinion that YOU guys didn't like. Not a single PC vs. anything in that paragraph.

I can stop these hoops you want people to go through real fast watch.....


Your majesty..... You feel Rachet & Clank Rift Apart isn't the best looking 2021 game, what is the best looking 2021 game according to your supreme vision?

 

[VFXVeteran]

I can stop these hoops you want people to go through real fast watch.....


Your majesty..... You feel Rachet & Clank Rift Apart isn't the best looking 2021 game, what is the best looking 2021 game according to your supreme vision?

I already said I didn't feel anything was a stand out for 2021. I even said I wouldn't have even made a best of for graphics tech.

 

[sircaw]

Picturized. Riky and VFXVeteran fighting off the onslaught.

Loved this score from the film, its magical


Also Riky Mr adamsapple just called you butch,