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[BeardGawd]

Oh wow. Using 3rd party games to push your higher subscription tier without having to pay them anything?

 

[Plantoid]

Good move by Sony, I'm a consumer after all.

Lots of fake concern to troll the blue side.

 

[phil_t98]

Well, you could think of Gamepass as "forcing" devs to put their game on it for whatever MS is offering or they'll be left in the dust as people are being taught that games aren't something you buy.

I'm grew up as a PC games and If there is something I like are demos.

The price point Sony chose also excludes most indie devs and shorter games, so they are "safe" from this. I'm pretty sure bug publishers releasing AAA games can afford to let people play for 2 hours to make sure they really want to buy it.

Microsoft isnt forcing anybody to put their games on to gamepass, have you any evidence they are forcing games on to game pass?

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

How would that be an excuse for a delay when they have three months after the game is released to provide the time trial?

Three months for a countdown

me coding vewy hard

Seriously they've built and tested this feature themselves. They'll obviously want to make this as intuitive as possible just as they've done with the cards, trophies, dualsense etc.

 

[Tomeru]

If your game is 4 hours, you might want to lock more content.
So you can play just the first hour for 2 hours total or something.

But this is the biggest issue:

Does it say anywhere that developers dont get paid for a "demo" (since they get paid by having their game be part of ps+p), or is that just a person making conclusions in 2022?

 

[Topher]

Three months for a countdown

me coding vewy hard

Seriously they've built and tested this feature themselves. They'll obviously want to make this as intuitive as possible just as they've done with the cards, trophies, dualsense etc.

Easy:

Hard:

 

[DaGwaphics]

So presumably this alternate reality you hypothesise about doesn’t include reviews, streaming, YouTube, forums, steam refunds or indeed services like gamepass where a lot of those mediocre games land on Xbox. You know - the places people learn about games already …

There is no downside to this solution except that it is not universal for all games and instead Sony had to force it and lock it behind a paywall so devs wouldn’t shit the bed over it.

With any luck devs will add the timer and make it available to everyone and that will become the norm going forward for all games.

Of course you can get information about games before you buy them, I always do that, I'm very patient like that. But people do buy things based on commercials that they see or the box art (in the days of retail), that's a thing. As a product seller you do have the opportunity to try and market around some negative buzz and set a narrative of your own directly to customers.

The Steam refunds are quite different, there's a process there and I'm sure some safeguards to make it difficult for someone to buy and return 20 or 30 games a month. They would have a hard time maintaining their payment processors if they had thousands of customers doing that. Plus, Steam isn't making money on that, in fact some processors won't refund transaction fees on reversal so it could be costing them $$.

 

[remember_spinal]

IMAGINE this feature during cyberpunks launch

Its probably the inspiration for it

 

[SenjutsuSage]

But, but, but... the dev choices. They're all going to go homeless like this!

 

[Chukhopops]

What I find crazy is does it mean there are going to be demos of first party games as well? Cause that would be weird otherwise.

That’s a nice perk for sure, not gonna pay a second sub for that but kudos.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Surely this could effect games sales massively?

Sony won't care if people are paying for PS+ Premium is my guess. I wonder if there is a mechanism to compensate devs for the number of people who trial their game. Or is that just a no go for Sony? Maybe no compensation is needed if the person ends up buying the game within a 30 day window? I imagine there must be something.

 

[prinz_valium]

Does it say anywhere that developers dont get paid for a "demo" (since they get paid by having their game be part of ps+p), or is that just a person making conclusions in 2022?

Would be written in the next new developer terms.
Also this will basically prevent new paid CoD games coming to Playstation after the Microsoft merger.

Microsoft wants the "free" game on Game Pass not a competing platform.

 

[anthony2690]

As if every publisher is going to comply.

Why would you make a two hour trial to your upcoming game that will probably lose you sales even if the demo is great?

Some people are happy trying a game out and getting it out their system, as that urge to try the game is suddenly gone.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Would be written in the next new developer terms.
Also this will basically prevent new paid CoD games coming to Playstation after the Microsoft merger.

Microsoft wants the "free" game on Game Pass not a competing platform.

Because of a 2 hour trial? Lmao no

 

[DaGwaphics]

Would be written in the next new developer terms.
Also this will basically prevent new paid CoD games coming to Playstation after the Microsoft merger.

Microsoft wants the "free" game on Game Pass not a competing platform.

It's only two hours, It would surprise me if MS considered that as competition for their service.

 

[phil_t98]

Oh wow. Using 3rd party games to push your higher subscription tier without having to pay them anything?

Surely they would have to be compensated

 

[prinz_valium]

It's only two hours, It would surprise me if MS considered that as competition for their service.

You need Game Pass to try the game before you can buy it.
Or you don't need Game Pass and can just try the new CoD on Playstation.

This is the biggest no go.

 

[Fredrik]

This is awesome. Wow.

 

[DaGwaphics]

You need Game Pass to try the game before you can buy it.
Or you don't need Game Pass and can just try the new CoD on Playstation.

This is the biggest no go.

If you have GP you don't need to buy it.

 

[Leyasu]

I think people are not seeing the bigger picture here. Sony are not forcing devs to do it, they will be PAYING them to do it.

Devs/pubs will be getting a cut of the subscription money for this. Sony are not putting guns to their heads or threatening to not sell their games if they refuse. This is not strong arming or using their market position tactics.

 

[G-Bus]

Can't remember the pricing tiers off the top of my head but I will definitely consider subbing to the tier that offers this feature.

Demos are coming back finally.

Maybe we can expect a higher degree of finished games from now on.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Surely they would have to be compensated

No reason for them to get compensated. Make a good game and the trials can help push more sales

 

[ToadMan]

Would be written in the next new developer terms.
Also this will basically prevent new paid CoD games coming to Playstation after the Microsoft merger.

Microsoft wants the "free" game on Game Pass not a competing platform.

COD will offer an MP trial - either 2 hours or a free weekend or something like that. Job done. The single player “campaign” is barely 2 hours long these days anyway.

If they go the 2 hour trial route, probably most of that will be spent waiting for servers.

 

[kyliethicc]

Easy:

Hard:

 

[DaGwaphics]

I think people are not seeing the bigger picture here. Sony are not forcing devs to do it, they will be PAYING them to do it.

Devs/pubs will be getting a cut of the subscription money for this. Sony are not putting guns to their heads of threatening to not sell their games if they refuse. This is not strong arming or using their market position tactics.

That's not the way the referenced article is written at all, but maybe they have this all wrong.

 

[reksveks]

I think people are not seeing the bigger picture here. Sony are not forcing devs to do it, they will be PAYING them to do it.

Devs/pubs will be getting a cut of the subscription money for this. Sony are not putting guns to their heads of threatening to not sell their games if they refuse. This is not strong arming or using their market position tactics.

If a dev decides the cut isn't enough? Technically the dev just have a choice but it's not much of a choice.

I wonder if this would allow devs to get out of marketing deals. Imagine ABK refusing to put out a trial? I wonder legally what happens.

 

[Leyasu]

That's not the way the referenced article is written at all, but maybe they have this all wrong.

I didn't read the article, but I i will do. I cannot imagine that will not be paying them something for doing demos for which son is using to justify their highest paying tier subscription service.

Unless everyone thinks that Jim is referred to as Don Ryan, and everyone is getting offers that they cant refuse

 

[BreakOut]

huh, Sony has that amount of power to do so especially for devs outside of 1st party studios?

The only company that would.

 

[DaGwaphics]

I didn't read the article, but I i will do. I cannot imagine that will not be paying them something for doing demos for which son is using to justify their highest paying tier subscription service.

Unless everyone thinks that Jim is referred to as Don Ryan, and everyone is getting offers that they cant refuse

It would make a lot more sense with some kind of compensation model, no doubt. It reads like it is a requirement for getting approved for sale on PS (over $34), so, the forced nature of it still wouldn't be great.

But this is one of those "unnamed sources" deals, so it could be BS. It does read like the 2hr experience doesn't need to be from your retail game, queue 2 hour marketing videos interspersed with gameplay.

 

[BreakOut]

Hopefully by doing this it sets a precedent , and maybe the other console manufacturers move into it. It would be nice because it would force Devs to be honest. I can see people who create good games considering this a positive, and devs who understand that their games are not going to achieve what they promised really pushing back against this. It will be telling when we see who is for and against it. But this would’ve been nice for games like Babylon fall, where the beta ended up being the same as the full product.

And of course the elephant in the room game would’ve been a huge net positive for consumer.

 

[Topher]

If a dev decides the cut isn't enough? Technically the dev just have a choice but it's not much of a choice.

I wonder if this would allow devs to get out of marketing deals. Imagine ABK refusing to put out a trial? I wonder legally what happens.

Probably why this is not retroactive. New contracts agreed to by the publishers will have the new "timed trial" language. Contracts and marketing deals already in place will more than likely be unaffected.

 

[Leyasu]

If a dev decides the cut isn't enough? Technically the dev just have a choice but it's not much of a choice.

I wonder if this would allow devs to get out of marketing deals. Imagine ABK refusing to put out a trial? I wonder legally what happens.

Same as gamepass. That is why it was always announced as "select games" A demo of COD or GTA or whatever juggernaught will be costly. No we are not talking exclusive moneyhat sums, but costly none the less. |Especially day one.

More than likely the three month delay is in place so that the price drops drastically or disappears totally, because as we all know most games sales are front loaded. A lot of demos might coincide with sales etc..

I don't know, I am just speculating in this thread like everyone else. But I don't think that Sony is strong arming anyone here.

 

[remember_spinal]

Jim Ryan: “more timed trials less chat, peons”

 

[reksveks]

Probably why this is not retroactive. New contracts agreed to by the publishers will have the new "timed trial" language. Contracts and marketing deals already in place will more than likely be unaffected.

Yeah, I assume that games and future games under marketing deals like ABK won't be subject to this but it would be 'interesting' legally if not.

re the retroactive comment, we don't know if its related to games or deals but assuming both makes sense.

 

[kyliethicc]

Probably why this is not retroactive.

They can‘t make it retroactive. If they did, then people wouldn’t need to buy Knack.

Would be the beginning of the end for PlayStation.

 

[Topher]

They can‘t make it retroactive. If they did, then people wouldn’t need to buy Knack.

Would be the beginning of the end for PlayStation.

Sony should retroactively require gamers to buy Knack 1 and 2.

 

[reksveks]

Sony should retroactively require gamers to buy Knack 1 and 2.

this reminds too much of the Apple + U2 thingy

 

[nominedomine]

Microsoft isnt forcing anybody to put their games on to gamepass, have you any evidence they are forcing games on to game pass?

Read what I said again, do you notice that I'm not actually saying that MS is literally forcing devs to put their games on Gamepass? They are just pushing for it as much as possible.

 

[mckmas8808]

Not good.

1) Refunds should be available to EVERYONE. Not just people who pay $120 a year.
2) No dev should be forced to offer trials to EVERYONE. People who PAY $70 for a game are in it because they WANT to buy the game. This will bring in users who dont want to buy the game or on the fence and this will cost devs more sales.

Dumb idea. It isnt good for either devs or consumers.

The bet is once people play the "Game" they'll enjoy it and buy it at that time or when it goes on sale. Not sure how this is a net negative for devs or gamers.

 

[K2D]

Doesn't apply to Square Enix or Kojima games.

To be fair, a 2 hour trial of Death Stranding would'nt do the game justice. Seems like half of people drop out at the 2 hour mark. Me included - and not everyone is so dedicated to gaming that they power through an initially poor first experience. That includes a few of my favorite games, including Bloodborne and Death Stranding.

And don't get me started on the FF7 Remake contrarians..!

 

[mckmas8808]

As if every publisher is going to comply.

Why would you make a two hour trial to your upcoming game that will probably lose you sales even if the demo is great?

Some people are happy trying a game out and getting it out their system, as that urge to try the game is suddenly gone.

I'm sure most of "those" people just never buy a $50 or more game in the first place, just to "get it out of their system".

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

Sony invents the game demo. but in all seriousness idk why they don't just give this feature to all users...if its required paying for a service to try a game seems a bit wild. Demos shouldn't be price gated.

 

[JLB]

???

It's their system, they can sell or not sell whatever they want on it. And devs would be really, really stupid to not sell at all on Playstation given the chance.

Nah, what do you think, that the world is the wild west? Is not that Sony (or any other store) has a free pass for any arbitrary decision they take. Apple vs Epic is a good example.

 

[DaGwaphics]

The bet is once people play the "Game" they'll enjoy it and buy it at that time or when it goes on sale. Not sure how this is a net negative for devs or gamers.

Game demos can hurt sales, suggests research

Information from analytic firm EEDAR suggests that releasing a game without a demo can almost double sales.

www.gamespot.com

Steam did have good results with their demo thing however. Not exactly a lot of detail in the link I posted, LOL, but I assume it is somewhat accurate considering how few demos got released on X1/PS4 vs. PS360. I'm taking it that if the demos boosted sales by a good margin we would have kept seeing them. Opt-in it would be totally fine, forced isn't so good.

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

Not good.

1) Refunds should be available to EVERYONE. Not just people who pay $120 a year.
2) No dev should be forced to offer trials to EVERYONE. People who PAY $70 for a game are in it because they WANT to buy the game. This will bring in users who dont want to buy the game or on the fence and this will cost devs more sales.

Dumb idea. It isnt good for either devs or consumers.

Demos aren't a bad idea and should be universal...a pice gate to demo is a bad idea.

 

[GHG]

Sony invents the game demo. but in all seriousness idk why they don't just give this feature to all users...if its required paying for a service to try a game seems a bit wild. Demos shouldn't be price gated.

The devs will most likely get some sort of fee/compensation for people making use of the trail on their games.

Either that or they will get compensated for any trials that convert into purchases within a certain time period (e.g. The cut Sony take is lower).

Game demos can hurt sales, suggests research

Information from analytic firm EEDAR suggests that releasing a game without a demo can almost double sales.

www.gamespot.com

So now explain how gamepass is supposed to increase sales when taking that into consideration. Take all the time you need to think, I'll wait.

 

[Topher]

Game demos can hurt sales, suggests research

Information from analytic firm EEDAR suggests that releasing a game without a demo can almost double sales.

www.gamespot.com

As the article points out, the best selling video games typically did not provide demos. Demos usually come from less well-known games. But even if demos harm game sales then is a result of the consumer being informed and I don't see that as a bad thing whatsoever.

 

[BeardGawd]

I'm sure most of "those" people just never buy a $50 or more game in the first place, just to "get it out of their system".

I know plenty of people bought Watch Dogs just to experience the Ray Tracing on their fancy new systems and barely played the game. Games are visual. Some people will get their fill by these trials.

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

The devs will most likely get some sort of fee/compensation for people making use of the trail on their games.

Either that or they will get compensated for any trials that convert into purchases within a certain time period (e.g. The cut Sony take is lower).

I think back to the Xbox360 generation when a plethora of games had demos behind not gating (if it did i stand corrected) and I just wish we could go back to that...this feels like nickle and diming. I'd love to try a demo but I'm not paying for that tier.

 

[anthony2690]

I'm sure most of "those" people just never buy a $50 or more game in the first place, just to "get it out of their system".

I feel like I buy games due to everyone's hype and excitement for them, you get caught in the moment and want to play that game.

I've purchased many games for this reason.

Dark souls 3 (loved it thankfully, would've purchased regardless, if it had a trial)
Fallout 4 (I would've probably never purchased after playing a trial)
Lego Star wars skywalker saga (same as above)

And I probably loads more games.

I think it's quite common in all honesty.