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[The Cartographer]

I, on the other hand, feel no sympathy for her: she wanted to fuck over everyone working on Bayonetta 3 and that alone is enough for me to say ''screw her!''.

 

[Calling 911 Melts Beams]

I don't like habitual contrarians, that's why you don't see me often on NeoGAF these days.

You agreed that social media are way more accessible these days thanks to mobile devices. Let's leave it at that and don't project on me.

ps: iPhone/smartphone was a wonderful invention, but I'm pretty sure that even Steve Jobs couldn't have predicted the downfall of the (Western) society thanks to this magic all-encompassing device.

Believe it or not, ease of use fuels echo chambers and one of the most prominent ones is the woke culture. Are you woke? If not, why are you offended? You can go back to ERA if you want.

We were better back in the 90s with just PCs and dial-up. No woke outrage culture back then. Leftists were tame for a reason.

It took REAL effort back in the 90s to write/post something on the internet... 4G/5G makes it so much easier. Ease of use is a double-edged sword.

the downfall of society started when some simp traded a rib for a girlfriend

 

[Bragr]

I agree that those people are dumber than a idle rock, but "reverse cancel culture" is way dumber.

Stop prosecuting people for what they say on the internet... for fucks sake.....

Reverse cancel culture would be to attack people based on nothing. This is the opposite.

 

[JackMcGunns]

I agree that those people are dumber than a idle rock, but "reverse cancel culture" is way dumber.

Stop prosecuting people for what they say on the internet... for fucks sake.....

I'm not condoning one way or another, but it is the people on the internet the ones doing the presecuting before having all the facts and often ruin people and companies. How is that ok?

 

[Captain Toad]

At this point honestly I just feel bad for her. I think it was not in her own self interest to go about this the way she did, especially in light of recent news. But it's clear she's not very plugged in to internet culture and the twitter outrage cycle to see how this would clearly turn around on her in no time. I guess she's now being dragged through the mud by the usual cretins for being a terf, transpose, alt right, bigot, religious zealot, etc., etc. Twitter working as intended I guess.

I think she is actually pretty plugged in with Internet culture. They love anyone, especially women, claiming to be a victim, because they love white-knighting and demanding justice without proof.

She played into that to throw her tantrum.

She's stupid in the fact that she didn't think her flat out lies would come to light.

 

[Hardensoul]

Repeating what I’ve and some been mentioning . This controversy has put Bayonetta 3 more into the limelight thank any marketing and marketing of previous games.

It’s now jump to #17 on Amazon. But only behind 2 Pokémon titles, Mario x Rabbids and God of War!!

https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Video-Games/zgbs/videogames/ref=zg_bsnr_tab

 

[Jada_Li]

If you want to break down body behavior and speech, you need a couple of examples of her talking (not acting) in a comfortable relaxed environment where she feels in control. That forms at least a half assed idea of her baseline. From there, you can tell better whether she's being off or not.

I already said there were multiple tell-tale signs, which I did not go into, but I see your point, though not everyone needs all that information because some are attuned to their intuition than others. Anyway, my speculation may have been correct on the motive as to why she also dragged the new voice actress into all of this. Hellena didn't think they would turn down her pay request for her role as Bayonetta, let alone replace her. So when she stood her ground and continued to decline the role and cameo, the developers moved on to find someone else, and thus she got upset and jealous. Which she attempted to drag the clueless fans into a situation without being entirely honest about all of the circumstances involved, intentionally so.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

That’s why I don’t take sides or form conclusions until I hear the entire story from both sides. I knew something wasn’t quite right with her story especially when this claim came out right before the game was getting ready to release.

 

[Spaceman292]

Closet misanthropes addicted to inflicting bile on others from their anonymous safe space, and the only thing stopping them turning on each other is that they hide behind the same badge of political correctness which protects them. Deeply unpleasant, negative-thinking people.

Closet mysoginists too. They're all aboard defending Taylor, then the second someone finds a vague, five year old tweet from her that they somehow decide is hateful, they immediately start calling her a cunt.

 

[Jsisto]

Repeating what I’ve and some been mentioning . This controversy has put Bayonetta 3 more into the limelight thank any marketing and marketing of previous games.

It’s now jump to #17 on Amazon. But only behind 2 Pokémon titles, Mario x Rabbids and God of War!!

https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Video-Games/zgbs/videogames/ref=zg_bsnr_tab

I don't know, I'd say it's more because the game is about to come out in less than two weeks than anything to do with this. It's natural for sales to rise right about now. I really don't think anybody cares at all about this except an extremely vocal minority.

 

[freefornow]

Especially wasps.

Living in the land of spiders, wasps are about the only thing that can keep those motherfuckers in check ecologically!

 

[TLZ]

She disputes those claims in the same article. Someone is lying, and now we don't know who.

Great. So now we're back to square one.

 

[Hardensoul]

I don't know, I'd say it's more because the game is about to come out in less than two weeks than anything to do with this. It's natural for sales to rise right about now. I really don't think anybody cares at all about this except an extremely vocal minority.

It was out of the top 40 before Helena release her videos! The story is being picked up by a lot of the YouTube and Twitch community! It even got mention by TMZ.

For a niche title line Bayonetta that’s a lot buzz which was bad which got people to notice! IMO

 

[Kamina]

Living in the land of spiders, wasps are about the only thing that can keep those motherfuckers in check ecologically!

Where i live the wasps dont give a shit about spiders, especially not those that hide in my cellar. The wasps just care about my grilled meat, or icecream, those fuckers.

 

[Kamina]

She disputes those claims in the same article. Someone is lying, and now we don't know who.

The article matches Kamiya’s deleted tweet, so we can guess who.
But of course the sensible thing would be to just sit back and watch.

 

[ShadowLag]

The article matches Kamiya’s deleted tweet, so we can guess who.
But of course the sensible thing would be to just sit back and watch.

Totally. All we have from either side is statements without evidence (Kamiya tweets or Schreier or Bloomberg claiming to have seen evidence is not evidence). Until we have something more substantial than "trust me guys, here's what happened" from someone, we'll never know.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Where i live the wasps dont give a shit about spiders, especially not those that hide in my cellar. The wasps just care a out my grilled meat, or icecream, those fuckers.

I remember when we had a pizza party on my job site outdoors. I've never seen so many wasps before going after the pepperoni on the pizza. I didn't realize they were extremely carnivorous.

 

[lostinblue]

I don't think she's lying. This sounds like a massive misunderstanding and miscommunication that she took completely the wrong way.

Perhaps she doesn't have an agent, and is completely stupid in regards to understanding an offer like this.

They were paying $3000-4000 per session, she wasn't doing one session, total would be $15.000 for 16 hours of work.

Perhaps they started with $3000 per session and then went up to $4000 as spoken about. Four $3000 sessions would amount to $12.000 so they increased the total in $3000, as if they were paying for 5 sessions at the original rate instead.

All before tax, all the same, but I'd say not bad for someone who hasn't voiced anything since 2014. This fact makes me think she doesn't have an agent. You can have all the talent in the world, but I think you have to have an agent to get parts and negotiate these things for you.

Even if they didn't pay and this was a 450 million franchise, an agent would probably tell her to do it for free, because she needed the credit to get further work.

 

[TheInfamousKira]

I already said there were multiple tell-tale signs, which I did not go into, but I see your point, though not everyone needs all that information because some are attuned to their intuition than others. Anyway, my speculation may have been correct on the motive as to why she also dragged the new voice actress into all of this. Hellena didn't think they would turn down her pay request for her role as Bayonetta, let alone replace her. So when she stood her ground and continued to decline the role and cameo, the developers moved on to find someone else, and thus she got upset and jealous. Which she attempted to drag the clueless fans into a situation without being entirely honest about all of the circumstances involved, intentionally so.

Yeah, I was just pitching my two cents because I've been reading a bit about this sort of thing, so it was interesting that it just popped up in this thread. I understand what you mean about being more attuned, I'm kind of that way with speech. I'm super sensitive to inflection and tone and end up basically trying to read between the lines of everything everyone says to me ever. It's neat. Or terrible.

But also, I was more making a generalized statement, some people might want to fall down the little rabbit hole themselves, and figuring out a baseline for her non verbal stuff and what have you could Light the little flame of internet detective in someone's heart. I was hoping to be the cause of someone wasting their entire evening, darn it!

 

[Bragr]

Closet mysoginists too. They're all aboard defending Taylor, then the second someone finds a vague, five year old tweet from her that they somehow decide is hateful, they immediately start calling her a cunt.

Closet misanthropes and closet misogynists.

I think we need a closet anthropologist to clear this shit up.

 

[LegendOfKage]

Skill up did a nice job covering the situation, which is what happens when you do a weekly recap gaming show, and have the benefit of getting a lot of facts before you start reporting.

 

[Hardensoul]

Skill up did a nice job covering the situation, which is what happens when you do a weekly recap gaming show, and have the benefit of getting a lot of facts before you start reporting.

Oh yeah! 4k too low, 20k still too low and VA are still getting fucked over? lol wtf!

 

[Torrent of Pork]

Where i live the wasps dont give a shit about spiders, especially not those that hide in my cellar. The wasps just care about my grilled meat, or icecream, those fuckers.

Off topic, but I thought it was funny.

 

[Torrent of Pork]

Lol at $750-$1000 per hour being too low for voice work from an amateur. Pay me half that, and I'll give you 16 hours of any performance you want.
(giggity)

 

[01011001]

Off topic, but I thought it was funny.

I feel that on a spiritual level... I hate Hornets and Wasps... if I could I would wipe them from the earth!

 

[Torrent of Pork]

I feel that on a spiritual level... I hate Hornets and Wasps... if I could I would wipe them from the earth!

Ehh, at the end of the day they're pollinators, even if they're assholes about it.

 

[01011001]

Ehh, at the end of the day they're pollinators, even if they're assholes about it.

you underestimate my hate towards them and what I would sacrifice for that power

 

[Pimpbaa]

I feel that on a spiritual level... I hate Hornets and Wasps... if I could I would wipe them from the earth!

I had to deal with a queen wasp in my basement both last spring and last fall. I felt like Ripley in Aliens fighting the Queen. I sure as hell wanted to nuke my house from orbit.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I already said there were multiple tell-tale signs, which I did not go into, but I see your point, though not everyone needs all that information because some are attuned to their intuition than others. Anyway, my speculation may have been correct on the motive as to why she also dragged the new voice actress into all of this. Hellena didn't think they would turn down her pay request for her role as Bayonetta, let alone replace her. So when she stood her ground and continued to decline the role and cameo, the developers moved on to find someone else, and thus she got upset and jealous. Which she attempted to drag the clueless fans into a situation without being entirely honest about all of the circumstances involved, intentionally so.

Her VO career largely surrounds playing Bayonetta, knowing her VO career was largely already over, she decided to go scorched earth, hoping to hurt Platinum Games. The video went more viral than she could have hoped, but the immediate backlash to the full story coming out is enough to undue most of her work here.

She even wanted future games boycotted... You could tell she wasn't altogether there in the video if you were actually listening.

I called her out for having a mental health episode and people didn't take kindly to that, but it was obvious.

 

[Joelenheimer]

"no one cares" 1300 posts later...

 

[Northeastmonk]

I don’t know how to feel about it at this point. She wants to call it quits and focus on broadway. Good for her. I hope there’s some justice there for video game voice actors, but if they all call it quits then someone else will take their place. Her pedigree isn’t telling us anything besides she studied with another person in the field. A lot of people go to school , get a degree and we get a job that doesn’t make our lives any better. Sometimes it’s just keeping up to speed with whatever you get.

 

[Ailynn]

Making $1000 an hour for a couple days of work and turning it down...and I'm over here in my late 40's making less an hour than new hires at McDonalds.

 

[LegendOfKage]

Making $1000 an hour for a couple days of work and turning it down...and I'm over here in my late 40's making less an hour than new hires at McDonalds.

Hopefully you're at least doing something more fulfilling with your work.

And 1000 dollars an hour sounds great until you can't get anyone else to hire you. Even before this, my guess is that the actress in question doesn't have much of a range, and can only do a slight variation on her own voice. Unless someone can do a lot of different voices and get a lot of different jobs, they would probably be much better off with a standard 40 hour work week.

 

[tassletine]

Perhaps she doesn't have an agent, and is completely stupid in regards to understanding an offer like this.

They were paying $3000-4000 per session, she wasn't doing one session, total would be $15.000 for 16 hours of work.

Perhaps they started with $3000 per session and then went up to $4000 as spoken about. Four $3000 sessions would amount to $12.000 so they increased the total in $3000, as if they were paying for 5 sessions at the original rate instead.

All before tax, all the same, but I'd say not bad for someone who hasn't voiced anything since 2014. This fact makes me think she doesn't have an agent. You can have all the talent in the world, but I think you have to have an agent to get parts and negotiate these things for you.

Even if they didn't pay and this was a 450 million franchise, an agent would probably tell her to do it for free, because she needed the credit to get further work.

From my understanding the $4000 came from an email conversation with Kamiya, which was translated by a friend of hers (as Kamiya speaks no English)-- so no wonder there was miscommunication.

This is what she was quoting (in my belief out of context to try and make a point) not her agents negotiations.

Personally, as I work in film, I have a huge mistrust of actors-- They're generally self centered and liable to make up any old bullshit to draw attention to themselves.
The fact that she's willing to break an NDA and effectively blacklist herself makes me think she is either really, really desperate for money or just trying it on in the way actors do to see if anyone still loves them. It's hard to say which.

 

[bender]

Making $1000 an hour for a couple days of work and turning it down...and I'm over here in my late 40's making less an hour than new hires at McDonalds.

 

[Clear]

Skill up did a nice job covering the situation, which is what happens when you do a weekly recap gaming show, and have the benefit of getting a lot of facts before you start reporting.

This whole argument that voice actors are somehow underpaid just makes me crazy.

For real; who else on a dev-team makes union rates of $1k/hr ? That'd be $38-$40k per standard week's work, before overtime - and as we know noone ever exceeds minimum hours in game-dev!

How can anyone morally argue that voice actors aren't massively better compensated than virtually everyone else on the team? Teams and the organizations that support such them involving headcounts often in the hundreds and thousands.

 

[baphomet]

It was clear from the very beginning she was full of shit.

 

[Valonquar]

Pretty soon Voice replication via AI is going to shut this sort of shit down fast

 

[Hardensoul]

This whole argument that voice actors are somehow underpaid just makes me crazy.

For real; who else on a dev-team makes union rates of $1k/hr ? That'd be $38-$40k per standard week's work, before overtime - and as we know noone ever exceeds minimum hours in game-dev!

How can anyone morally argue that voice actors aren't massively better compensated than virtually everyone else on the team? Teams and the organizations that support such them involving headcounts often in the hundreds and thousands.

Glad you also saw that too and called it out. It just seem like people with these talking points have never sweat in below minimum wage jobs before. I’ve worked as kitchen helper at restaurants to textile mill and machine shops. Moved up in pay at every job.

Every job is different and require different skill and time. If you don’t feel it’s paying much move on or keep trying to do more jobs if you got time! IMO

 

[SF Kosmo]

Serious question: who the fuck cares about Bayonetta's voice? To me, there was never anything special about her voice.

I don't like the new voice. Hale is miscast. And the old voice actress definitely lent a certain charisma to the character.

Not saying they should have paid her a million dollars or anything but I agree $4000 is pretty insulting and less than they likely paid Hale for a worse result.

 

[Mr Branding]

I don't like the new voice. Hale is miscast. And the old voice actress definitely lent a certain charisma to the character.

Not saying they should have paid her a million dollars or anything but I agree $4000 is pretty insulting and less than they likely paid Hale for a worse result.

4000/session insulting what?!? 15000 per project in this day and age is an amazing gig. She should work more often; it could have helped her earn much more money, and also keep her busy enough to not start spewing venom online.

 

[Ogbert]

Voice actors are not underpaid.

It’s an easy gig and, unlike acting, ugly people can do it. So more competition.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Voice actors are not underpaid.

It’s an easy gig and, unlike acting, ugly people can do it. So more competition.

Voice acting is not like hiring someone to paint your walls. It's not something a million people can do equally well. If someone is suited to a role and has a long history with it, replacing them with someone who will do an equally good job is a lot harder than you make it seem.

That's what she is getting paid for. Not for just making sounds with her mouth in front of a microphone.

 

[Negotiator]

Voice acting is not like hiring someone to paint your walls. It's not something a million people can do equally well. If someone is suited to a role and has a long history with it, replacing them with someone who will do an equally good job is a lot harder than you make it seem.

That's what she is getting paid for. Not for just making sounds with her mouth in front of a microphone.

And yet, ND replaced Harry Flynn's VA in Uncharted 4...

How many people remember this? How many people boycotted UC4?

 

[SF Kosmo]

And yet, ND replaced Harry Flynn's VA in Uncharted 4...

How many people remember this? How many people boycotted UC4?

In fairness he's a generic boring character and Bayonetta isn't

 

[Mibu no ookami]

And yet, ND replaced Harry Flynn's VA in Uncharted 4...

How many people remember this? How many people boycotted UC4?

I don't even remember him being in Uncharted 4

 

[Hardensoul]

In fairness he's a generic boring character and Bayonetta isn't

Being iconic didn’t stop Kratos VA being replaced and metal Gear replacing David Hayter. I like Bayonetta but she isn’t that iconic. Previous ales don’t reflect that!

But I do think this controversy will help Bayonetta 3 to sell more! Possibly 2-3 million.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

4000/session insulting what?!? 15000 per project in this day and age is an amazing gig. She should work more often; it could have helped her earn much more money, and also keep her busy enough to not start spewing venom online.

Basically $1,000/hr.

Unless someone has constant work doing VA or is a big Hollywood celeb doing a Pixar cartoon, this kind of job doesn't even look like a sustainable job by itself. It looks like the kind of job where you have a FT job elsewhere and do this on the side for big cash. According to the SAG chart, the normal VA rate is $250/hr.

Kind of like people I know who have an office job and help do weekend landscaping/renovations for extra cash. They dont rely on the weekend jobs to make a living. It's bonus bucks.

Who knows what Taylor did the last 8 years, but going strictly on her IMDB profile (assuming it's up to date), the last VA job she did was Bayonetta 2 in 2014. If she has a FT job doing something else that's fine, but VA wise she's done nothing in almost a decade.

 

[Ogbert]

Voice acting is not like hiring someone to paint your walls. It's not something a million people can do equally well. If someone is suited to a role and has a long history with it, replacing them with someone who will do an equally good job is a lot harder than you make it seem.

That's what she is getting paid for. Not for just making sounds with her mouth in front of a microphone.

I disagree.

If it was genuinely difficult, the market rate would reflect that.

And painting a wall well is harder than doing a posh English accent.

 

[SF Kosmo]

I disagree.

If it was genuinely difficult, the market rate would reflect that.

And painting a wall well is harder than doing a posh English accent.

I dunno, why did they hire a Candian who can't do the accent at all then?

It's not as if they identified a passable replacement, they just hired Default Voice Actor for her day rate and the experience will be worse for it.

I don't think many will boycott, but even if it costs them a few hundred in sales it would have been worth it to pay more.