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Jim Ryan: "[Microsoft is] a tech giant with a long history of dominating industries, the choices gamers have today will disappear"

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DaGwaphics

Member
I will have to go back and read the full conversation but just to respond to your post; I don't see how you can equalize buying a large publisher that owns studios and multiple IP (their worth) to getting individual studios who have talent and maybe one or two IPs.

Because if the dollars are the same there is no difference. Like I said, MS could have just as easily purchased specific studios and IPs (independents or from other publishers). If they were still spending $70b, the result wold have likely been a lot worse in the eyes of Sony fans, they could have picked up a hell of a lot. Without ever buying a "publisher". That just isn't an important distinction.
 

sainraja

Member
Because if the dollars are the same there is no difference. Like I said, MS could have just as easily purchased specific studios and IPs (independents or from other publishers). If they were still spending $70b, the result wold have likely been a lot worse in the eyes of Sony fans, they could have picked up a hell of a lot. Without ever buying a "publisher". That just isn't an important distinction.
If MS could have easily done that, they would have. The only option they were presented with, is what they went with. They wanted the IP and talent. If they could pick and control the risk they were taking with their 70b, you think they would ignore it?

If you are simply trying to get a leg up on 'Sony' fans then I don't see the point of this conversation lol.
 
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DeepEnigma

Gold Member
A complain post maybe? lol It bothers me how Ryan cries over the purchase while paying big money to publishers to keep games away from Xbox. Some big third party games literally never came out on Xbox One and that's clearly not because they liked PS more
They both do what you say he cries about, but only one is purchasing decades old 3rd party publishers with those storied IPs and studios in this race to the bottom.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
If MS could have easily done that, they would have. The only option they were presented with, is what they went with.

More a case of them deciding on making the spend based on what fell in there lap. If MS had decided "hey, lets buy $70b worth of IPs and studios" they could do that. Look at what Embracer is doing, biggest hurdle would've just been finding enough IPs to spend it all on.
 

sainraja

Member
More a case of them deciding on making the spend based on what fell in there lap. If MS had decided "hey, lets buy $70b worth of IPs and studios" they could do that. Look at what Embracer is doing, biggest hurdle would've just been finding enough IPs to spend it all on.
Those studios (the ones they would want to buy) would have to be on sale for them even to buy and let's not forget the IP — the studio willing to sell the IP/being sold to MS with it. So, that is what I am trying to tell you. It's not as easy as you are trying to make it and that 70B would be distributed, wouldn't be given to the set of studios as a whole for them to do with as they please. It's not the same situation.

To clarify, the money would be allocated to buying those set of studios. I get the benefit of being acquired and having access to more money etc but you can try to say it's the same as much as you want, it's really not.
 
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DaGwaphics

Member
Those studios (the ones they would want to buy) would have to be on sale for them even to buy and let's not forget the IP — the studio willing to sell the IP/being sold to MS with it. So, that is what I am trying to tell you. It's not as easy as you are trying to make it and that 70B would be distributed, wouldn't be given to the set of studios as a whole for them to do with as they please. It's not the same situation.

If MS had wanted to spend that much I think they could have made the offers they needed to make. LOL

Money talks, you'd see surprising sales taking place if someone was willing to throw that kind of money around. The end result to Sony wouldn't be much different though, which is the point everyone was making. MS could just buy studio after studio after studio and reach the same final result without buying a publisher. In fact, it would be a lot easier for them because the smaller individual deals wouldn't draw nearly the regulatory scrutiny.
 
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sainraja

Member
If MS had wanted to spend that much I think they could have made the offers they needed to make. LOL

Money talks, you'd see surprising sales taking place if someone was willing to throw that kind of money around. The end result to Sony wouldn't be much different though, which is the point everyone was making. MS could just buy studio after studio after studio and reach the same final result without buying a publisher.
The point of my previous post, the one that you are glossing over.....spending a bunch of money on random studios is one thing. Being strategic about who you want (the other side also willing) and getting the one you want with IP is another. More time/resources they would have to invest and looking at each opportunity on its own, etc etc.

Insomniac is owned by Sony now but Sony tried buying them before and were refused.

MS simply came across an opportunity and they jumped on it for the IP/talent. If they could be more strategic about it (who/what), they would have.
 
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DaGwaphics

Member
The point of my previous post, the one that you are glossing over.....spending a bunch of money on random studios is one thing. Being strategic about who you want (the other side also willing) and getting the one you want is another.

I think MS has been a lot more strategic in the moves they've made than they are given credit for. They aren't buying just anything, they are buying the IPs that matter the most to their platform (FPS and Western RPGs).

@ S StealthGoblin I agree with you about Ryan doing a solid job at Sony, no way he is going anywhere unless he quits or retires. Sony isn't going to fire the guy that's bringing in historic amounts of revenue for PS. Same really with Spencer and Xbox, the division is doing to well for him to get fired. If you're smart you'll buy into both platforms and enjoy the ride.
 
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I probably should have been more clear. Obviously he is good at his job and will be well liked by the corporate Sony folks because what he is doing will lead to more sales, but as a consumer those things aren't really important to me. When I look at a CEO that is leading a company such as Sony or MS, I really only care about how their policies affect me personally along with gamers. His overreliance on blockbuster games and remakes thus far has been a major turnoff, even if everyone agrees they will all be highly acclaimed and commercially successful. Under Shawn Laydon is felt as though making quality and diverse videogames was top of the agenda, but now the focus seems to have shifted to focusing primarily on the core games and styles that Sony has become known for, along with transitioning those massive IP's onto your tv set with shows and movies.

I kinda want something that isn't a 3rd person game is really what I am getting at here. Sony has a talented lineup of studios and could making something truly great outside of that box. It's been hard to find exclusive content to play on the PS5 primarily because of that, at least for me.
Understood, but I’m eating at the table of the Gods with what they put out, and it appears many agree.
You’ll be pleased with some of their GAAS games if you like 1st person views.
 

Kataploom

Gold Member
That's a very reductive way of looking at things, that is false as well.
I don't think it's false, maybe reductive, but not false... If they had the money to buy AB they probably would, therefore they wouldn't buy Bungie instead, they clearly are in purchase hunt and they said it themselves.

Edit: I don't "support" this, btw, they can get AB games on Game Pass without purchasing them, I just try to understand and comment on the situation as I see it happens
 
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sainraja

Member
I think MS has been a lot more strategic in the moves they've made than they are given credit for. They aren't buying just anything, they are buying the IPs that matter the most to their platform (FPS and Western RPGs).
Uh what...I wasn't arguing otherwise lol. I don't know which direction you are trying to take this conversation now but we both know how they came across A&B. Unless you know something I don't.

EDIT
If you are simply stuck on one of my statements where I said, if MS had the choice, they would have been more strategic. I was simply focusing on the A&B acquisition. You can still disagree but it doesn't change the point I was making. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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DeepEnigma

Gold Member
I don't think it's false, maybe reductive, but not false... If they had the money to buy AB they probably would, therefore they wouldn't buy Bungie instead, they clearly are in purchase hunt and they said it themselves
I don't think they would. It's not their style.

Purchase hunt does not mean throw money down on a massive third party publisher, but rather, more pieces that fit as they have been doing. Now if this deal goes through, that may change.

And oh joy, more racing to the bottom.
 
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Kataploom

Gold Member
I don't think they would. It's not their style.

Purchase hunt does not mean throw money down on a massive third party publisher, but rather, more pieces that fit as they have been doing. Now if this deal goes through, that may change.
Then that's their thing if its their style or not, in that case if they had or not the money, it's not MS business what kind of moral or philosophy Sony carry when deciding what to purchase, nor should they care.

I edited my previous post BTW, as I said in there, I don't "support" the purchase, I just don't care actually... it just bothers me how SIE money-hatted half industry for exclusive deals and now that Xbox does it on a scale they can't compete with, they complain... I don't think there's a rule where it specifies at which scale exclusivity deals should be handled...
 
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I edited my previous post BTW, as I said in there, I don't "support" the purchase, I just don't care actually... it just bothers me how SIE money-hatted half industry for exclusive deals and now that Xbox does it on a scale they can't compete with, they complain... I don't think there's a rule where it specifies at which scale exclusivity deals should be handled...

Perhaps I'm wrong, but didn't you just self explain the entire argument against this acquisition to yourself? Anti-trust legislation exists to protect the consumer and competing firms from a monopolistic actor. The whole idea is when you buy something this large, 70 Billion dollars, it will have effects on the industry wit large. Not just to consumers, but the playing field, which to this point has been pretty fair from a competition standpoint with the big 3. It's not Nintendo or Sony's fault they just do it better.

This would be the largest consumer technology deal in two decades since AOL bought TimeWarner!

You argue about Sony "money-hatting", but how this is analogous in an anti-trust perspective? How does that remove players or other potential deals? How does that forever shape the landscape like this deal would? That's why regulators are looking at this deal in 16 countries.
 
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Understood, but I’m eating at the table of the Gods with what they put out, and it appears many agree.
You’ll be pleased with some of their GAAS games if you like 1st person views.

I'm not interested in GaaS

“Some people say, "Give the customers what they want." But that's not my approach. Our job is to figure out what they're going to want before they do. I think Henry Ford once said, "If I'd asked customers what they wanted, they would have told me, 'A faster horse!'" People don't know what they want until you show it to them. That's why I never rely on market research. Our task is to read things that are not yet on the page.” - Steve Jobs


Sony will keep making the same games and people will keep buying them, Jim Ryan will generate a lot of money for his shareholders and gamers will be happy, except for me. You can tell a great story without relying on a hours of cutscenes to do so, without games being linear down minus a few choices to give us the illusion of being able to change the endgame or the current world. I see games like Cyberpunk 2077 and I'm like, why the fuck isn't Naughty Dog trying to make a game like this? Sony has a lot of talent and could make some truly exceptional games that don't walk the same path, and I know this because they used to.

I think Sony is fearful of doing new things again because what they are doing now has been a roaring success and they don't want to invest time and resources into something brand new just for it fall flat critically and commercially. Call me crazy but if the next game from Insomniac was a game like Skyrim, and was polished and well built like an Insomniac game, I just can't imagine a world where that doesn't become the best selling thing Sony ever released. People fucking loves these games.
 
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Kataploom

Gold Member
Perhaps I'm wrong, but didn't you just self explain the entire argument against this acquisition to yourself? Anti-trust legislation exists to protect the consumer and competing firms from a monopolistic actor. The whole idea is when you buy something this large, 70 Billion dollars, it will have effects on the industry wit large. Not just to consumers, but the playing field, which to this point has been pretty fair from a competition standpoint with the big 3. It's not Nintendo or Sony's fault they just do it better.

This would be the largest consumer technology deal in two decades since AOL bought TimeWarner!

You argue about Sony "money-hatting", but how this is analogous in an anti-trust perspective? How does that remove players or other potential deals? How does that forever shape the landscape like this deal would? That's why regulators are looking at this deal in 16 countries.
Well, for starter, as some have said there's still no FF7R or SFV on Xbox, I know they are smaller purchases, but when you have them more in quantities and frequency and considering they all contributed to balance things in favor of Sony, does it matter the size per deal that much?

I know the magnitude of this deal is probably much bigger, but by how much considering all the deals Sony made along the 8th generation to prevent content on Xbox? And which is supposed to be the "limit"? How do we know Sony has spent less over the time on exclusivity deals than MS will spend on a single purchase?

What I'm completely sure is that if Sony could, they would have bought AB first considering it's as big of a partner as it is, being this good or bad for gamers doesn't matter, they're just afraid to loose the special attention AB have been giving them for years... And it's completely valid for them, what bothers me is the virtue signaling of Ryan considering the track record on exclusivity deals.
 

GHG

Member
As soon as they stop being comically sycophantic.

Nah, I'll just sit back and wait for you to fall on your sword. Only a matter of time.

Unimpressed The Big Lebowski GIF by Working Title
 
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Dorcedo

Neo Member
I rarely visit this forum and haven't owned a console since 360/PS3 gen but is the bolded part wrong? Take the statement at face value and look up MS' history and then tell me the statement is false.
 
Well, for starter, as some have said there's still no FF7R or SFV on Xbox, I know they are smaller purchases, but when you have them more in quantities and frequency and considering they all contributed to balance things in favor of Sony, does it matter the size per deal that much?

I know the magnitude of this deal is probably much bigger, but by how much considering all the deals Sony made along the 8th generation to prevent content on Xbox? And which is supposed to be the "limit"? How do we know Sony has spent less over the time on exclusivity deals than MS will spend on a single purchase?

What I'm completely sure is that if Sony could, they would have bought AB first considering it's as big of a partner as it is, being this good or bad for gamers doesn't matter, they're just afraid to loose the special attention AB have been giving them for years... And it's completely valid for them, what bothers me is the virtue signaling of Ryan considering the track record on exclusivity deals.

Not to be rude, I am pointing these things out sincerely, but stop thinking like a gamer and think like a businessman or regulator.

What prevents Microsoft from approaching Square or any money-hatted outfit and entering into a fair contract with them over a novel or new IP? Isn't Kojima still doing a game with Microsoft?

But when you fundamentally alter the companies involved and the competitive landscape, things change dramatically.

And I'm not so sure Sony would have bought them. Their MO is a little different from what I've seen, they invest in companies and secure a position like in Square or Epic Games. I mean, I'm not saying they wouldn't love to own them both, but they seem content to follow a different path. With I would never believe they're being benign and care about the industry or me, but along the lines of what Milton Friedman once said concerning politicians:

“I do not believe that the solution to our problem is simply to elect the right people. The important thing is to establish a political climate of opinion which will make it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing. Unless it is politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing, the right people will not do the right thing either, or it they try, they will shortly be out of office.” - Milton Friedman
 

Evil Calvin

Afraid of Boobs
I agree with you for the most part. Between Microsoft's constant mismanagement of IPs, Sony's acquisition of Bungie, the talent of Sony first party, and the 10yr option, I don't think it's a long-term concern for Sony at all. But it is still a significant franchise that could fall under the control of a direct competitor. Why give up a status quo that has historically worked well for you in the past without at least some hooting and hollering? Wouldn't you be doing the same if you were him? It's just business.
Xbox owner here.......this is all true....plus, what is the last AAA 1st party game that was received great? Maybe Forza Horizon 5? There haven't been many at all. I don't think, if MS bought Activision, that they would have yearly COD releases and I doubt they will be getting the great reviews like the new COD is getting.
 
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Kataploom

Gold Member
Not to be rude, I am pointing these things out sincerely, but stop thinking like a gamer and think like a businessman or regulator.

What prevents Microsoft from approaching Square or any money-hatted outfit and entering into a fair contract with them over a novel or new IP? Isn't Kojima still doing a game with Microsoft?

But when you fundamentally alter the companies involved and the competitive landscape, things change dramatically.

And I'm not so sure Sony would have bought them. Their MO is a little different from what I've seen, they invest in companies and secure a position like in Square or Epic Games. I mean, I'm not saying they wouldn't love to own them both, but they seem content to follow a different path. With I would never believe they're being benign and care about the industry or me, but along the lines of what Milton Friedman once said concerning politicians:
Yeah, I can understand not wanting to think like a "gamer" but trying to comprehend from a more realistic or neutral position.

I responded what you said in a previous post, the thing is maybe you're right and it's not "their way" to do business, but I don't think that's MS problem... I don't care about, nor support the purchase (and it doesn't bother me either) btw, I plan to get all consoles anyway.
 

Ozriel

M$FT
How convenient for you to totally disregard that MS is a megacorp like Meta, Google and Amazon. Governments around the world are cracking down on them so we don't get the nightmare dystopian future you're desperately cheering for.

And regulation is VERY important. I fully support that. Competition benefits the consumer so monopolies cannot be allowed.

I just don't see how potential exclusivity for Crash Bandicoot or Spyro and Day One Call of Duty on Gamepass will lead to a 'nightmare dystopian future'.
 

rofif

Can’t Git Gud
I'm not interested in GaaS

“Some people say, "Give the customers what they want." But that's not my approach. Our job is to figure out what they're going to want before they do. I think Henry Ford once said, "If I'd asked customers what they wanted, they would have told me, 'A faster horse!'" People don't know what they want until you show it to them. That's why I never rely on market research. Our task is to read things that are not yet on the page.” - Steve Jobs


Sony will keep making the same games and people will keep buying them, Jim Ryan will generate a lot of money for his shareholders and gamers will be happy, except for me. You can tell a great story without relying on a hours of cutscenes to do so, without games being linear down minus a few choices to give us the illusion of being able to change the endgame or the current world. I see games like Cyberpunk 2077 and I'm like, why the fuck isn't Naughty Dog trying to make a game like this? Sony has a lot of talent and could make some truly exceptional games that don't walk the same path, and I know this because they used to.

I think Sony is fearful of doing new things again because what they are doing now has been a roaring success and they don't want to invest time and resources into something brand new just for it fall flat critically and commercially. Call me crazy but if the next game from Insomniac was a game like Skyrim, and was polished and well built like an Insomniac game, I just can't imagine a world where that doesn't become the best selling thing Sony ever released. People fucking loves these games.
I mean I know I want a teleporting machine before I will see one.
This steve jobs stuff is bs.

What I know I DONT want is sub services...
 
I'm not interested in GaaS

“Some people say, "Give the customers what they want." But that's not my approach. Our job is to figure out what they're going to want before they do. I think Henry Ford once said, "If I'd asked customers what they wanted, they would have told me, 'A faster horse!'" People don't know what they want until you show it to them. That's why I never rely on market research. Our task is to read things that are not yet on the page.” - Steve Jobs


Sony will keep making the same games and people will keep buying them, Jim Ryan will generate a lot of money for his shareholders and gamers will be happy, except for me. You can tell a great story without relying on a hours of cutscenes to do so, without games being linear down minus a few choices to give us the illusion of being able to change the endgame or the current world. I see games like Cyberpunk 2077 and I'm like, why the fuck isn't Naughty Dog trying to make a game like this? Sony has a lot of talent and could make some truly exceptional games that don't walk the same path, and I know this because they used to.

I think Sony is fearful of doing new things again because what they are doing now has been a roaring success and they don't want to invest time and resources into something brand new just for it fall flat critically and commercially. Call me crazy but if the next game from Insomniac was a game like Skyrim, and was polished and well built like an Insomniac game, I just can't imagine a world where that doesn't become the best selling thing Sony ever released. People fucking loves these games.
Wrong on so many levels
 

GHG

Member
Wrong on so many levels

Using Cyberpunk 2077 as an example of depth tells you everything you need to know (it's also full of cutscenes, scripted moments and times when control is taken away from you because something cool needs to happen). It also railroads you down paths while giving you the illusion of choice.

923gy732mi661.png
 
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rofif

Can’t Git Gud
Then don't sub to anything. Seems like an entirely avoidable "problem" to me.
It's ignorant to think of it this way lol.
If GP and sub services are popular, this leads to death of physical gaming, devaluing of games and cheapening of games that are released... production value cheapening.
The effects will hit me no matter if I sub or not.
Look at the movie industry? Everything is a tv show now and although many movies come out... these are subscription trash.
 
It's ignorant to think of it this way lol.
If GP and sub services are popular, this leads to death of physical gaming, devaluing of games and cheapening of games that are released... production value cheapening.
The effects will hit me no matter if I sub or not.
Look at the movie industry? Everything is a tv show now and although many movies come out... these are subscription trash.
A lot of people want subs, yet you can still buy movies and music and games without the need to buy into a specific ecosystem and that doesn't at all appear to be going away anytime soon.

Like I said, this is a problem the end user can avoid.
 
Using Cyberpunk 2077 as an example of depth tells you everything you need to know (it's also full of cutscenes, scripted moments and times when control is taken away from you because something cool needs to happen). It also railroads you down paths while giving you the illusion of choice.

923gy732mi661.png
I said a game *like* Cyberpunk, not a verbatim clone.
 

rofif

Can’t Git Gud
A lot of people want subs, yet you can still buy movies and music and games without the need to buy into a specific ecosystem and that doesn't at all appear to be going away anytime soon.

Like I said, this is a problem the end user can avoid.
short sighted and lack of imagination you are
yoda GIF
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
A lot of people want subs, yet you can still buy movies and music and games without the need to buy into a specific ecosystem and that doesn't at all appear to be going away anytime soon.

Like I said, this is a problem the end user can avoid.
People buy DVDs and CDs far less than ever. Big budget movies can rely on box office, musicians then rely on concerts. Most streaming content is trash. There are standouts, but they are the exception to the norm. Even with large budgets on streaming, they put out trash for that casual audience (Ring of Power).

This is a race to the bottom. "F2P is the future" MS/Phil recently mentioned.

Ryan Reynolds Want GIF
 
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People buy DVDs and CDs far less than ever. Big budget movies can rely on box office, musicians then rely on concerts. Most streaming content is trash. There are standouts, but they are the exception to the norm. Even with large budgets on streaming, they put out trash for that casual audience (Ring of Power).

This is a race to the bottom. "F2P is the future" MS/Phil recently mentioned.

Ryan Reynolds Want GIF
Of course they buy physical media at less of a rate, we have options now, and artists are losing out because of corporate greed not because the money isn't there, but that seems like another issue alltogether.

If you guys see the future as bleak then yeah, that would suck, but I don't have the same outlook. Subs and streaming and digital content is going to reign king no matter what we want, its convenient, but I doubt there will ever be a day when physical media in some form just disappears for people to consume on an individual level.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Of course they buy physical media at less of a rate, we have options now, and artists are losing out because of corporate greed not because the money isn't there, but that seems like another issue alltogether.

If you guys see the future as bleak then yeah, that would suck, but I don't have the same outlook. Subs and streaming and digital content is going to reign king no matter what we want, its convenient, but I doubt there will ever be a day when physical media in some form just disappears for people to consume on an individual level.
No, the investment will lessen if the demand is lessened as people are conditioned to think games are only worth $14 a month per 500 of them. Which was his point entirely. Lower investment means lower production values, tech, scope, etc...
 

Stooky

Member
Well, for starter, as some have said there's still no FF7R or SFV on Xbox, I know they are smaller purchases, but when you have them more in quantities and frequency and considering they all contributed to balance things in favor of Sony, does it matter the size per deal that much?

I know the magnitude of this deal is probably much bigger, but by how much considering all the deals Sony made along the 8th generation to prevent content on Xbox? And which is supposed to be the "limit"? How do we know Sony has spent less over the time on exclusivity deals than MS will spend on a single purchase?

What I'm completely sure is that if Sony could, they would have bought AB first considering it's as big of a partner as it is, being this good or bad for gamers doesn't matter, they're just afraid to loose the special attention AB have been giving them for years... And it's completely valid for them, what bothers me is the virtue signaling of Ryan considering the track record on exclusivity deals.
Are you comparing an exclusivity deal that in some cases is a timed release to spending $70billion on buying a publisher………..
 
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No, the investment will lessen if the demand is lessened as people are conditioned to think games are only worth $14 a month per 500 of them. Which was his point entirely. Lower investment means lower production values, tech, scope, etc...
This seems like a stupid argument, no offense. None of this has happened yet and I don't really feel like speculating on the future that none of us know about. We will see, hope youre wrong.
 
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