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[Shifty1897]

I don't know what a PS5 Pro could actually do unless AMD has a decent Ray Tracing secretly hiding up their sleeve.

I guess you could just have it brute force everything to 4K 60fps.

 

[Jaybe]

Any chance they simply call this the PlayStation 6 and drop ‘Pro’ moniker? We’ve just had 2.5 years of cross-platform games between PS4 and PS5.

 

[VolticArchangel]

This thing will cost not a cent more than $499.99, i.e. the current cost of a base PS5, which will get replaced by this and the base new Slim PS5 SKU becoming $299 (Digital with a $50-$100 disc drive add-on accessory), just like last gen.

PSVR2 being $50 more is irrelevant here because of recouping the R&D costs of the device, for which they are forced to sell it at that MSRP.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Any chance they simply call this the PlayStation 6 and drop ‘Pro’ moniker? We’ve just had 2.5 years of cross-platform games between PS4 and PS5.

Honestly I have heard this very thing at times

Whats the difference between calling something a pro model or a new model if everything is cross gen/platform for years after launch

 

[Ps5ProFoSho]

YAY MY NAME WILL FINALLY MAKE SENSE

 

[Elder Legend]

Any chance they simply call this the PlayStation 6 and drop ‘Pro’ moniker? We’ve just had 2.5 years of cross-platform games between PS4 and PS5.

No. PS6 isn't releasing until 2028 or later.

 

[Knightime_X]

I hope it's fake.
Feels like a scam buying launch consoles anymore.

Hardly anything is out, and by the time actual games start to release here comes a pro model.

Horse shit!

 

[Captain Toad]

I don't believe it's "in development".

R&D? Sure. They are always planning for different possibilities. I don’t think Pro models happen this generation though. That was a special case last gen with the sudden popularity and rise in 4K. There's much less to market this time.

 

[MikeM]

I hope it's fake.
Feels like a scam buying launch consoles anymore.

Hardly anything is out, and by the time actual games start to release here comes a pro model.

Horse shit!

So don’t buy it? PS5 will still work fine.

I don’t get the logic.

 

[NT80]

I hope it's fake.
Feels like a scam buying launch consoles anymore.

Hardly anything is out, and by the time actual games start to release here comes a pro model.

Horse shit!

Which is why more people shouldn't buy them at launch. There was way too much demand for the supply causing all kinds of problems. The price of the PS5 actually went up in many territories 2 years in which is something I've never seen happen in previous gens. Imagine if those scalpers have egg on their faces when the PS6 comes out due to demand and supply being more sensible.

 

[jonnyp]

Its coming

As do I. I hope it's more than 20 TFLOPs. 2024 seems too soon though

 

[Madserb2023]

I don't get the logic of people not wanting it to exist. If you don't want it, don't buy it. It is no different to a newer more powerful graphics card being released. Unless it had exclusive games which would split the base, then there is no issue. Consoles are now PCs, there is no hidden power that can be unlocked if developers are restricted to just working on the base hardware.

 

[Carmen Winstead]

Sony can fuck right off with this mid gen refresh bullshit.
Is there any (exclusive/non-exclusive) PS5 game where you look at the game and can tell that they used all of the capabilities of the console to make this game work and used every last bit of the system?
I can name you a couple of these games in each past gen but this gen I can't even name you one and we're almost three years in.
I was an early adopter of the PS5 because I thought Sony wouldn't be that obsessed on cashing in on the cross gen games ("they believed in generations") but these clowns are already thinking of a Pro version without even offering anything in the likes of a system seller for the standard version.

 

[Kagero]

Why tho?

Fuck it! I'm in.

 

[JeloSWE]

but this time they will give you the option to play at 40 or 60 fps, so everyone can be happy

30hz - makes me sad
40hz - makes me just a bit less sad
60hz - makes me not sad
120hz - makes me happy

 

[In Cold Blood]

Both Sony and MS would be well on their way to designing the PS6 and Xbox Next by now.
Could well be that.

 

[Elder Legend]

I hope it's fake.
Feels like a scam buying launch consoles anymore.

Hardly anything is out, and by the time actual games start to release here comes a pro model.

Horse shit!

Your logic doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

New phones come out every year and those cost upwards of $1000 and more. So are you getting scammed every year then because a new phone keeps coming out from same brand every year?

What about the GPUs, new GPUs come out every 2 years. I guess that's a scam too. Stop with this nonsense, no one is forcing you to buy shit. Also, consoles are even cheaper than phones and GPUs and they have far more years between them.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

As do I. I hope it's more than 20 TFLOPs. 2024 seems too soon though

If I was a betting man if we are looking at TFs my money would be in the 15-17 TF range but this is honestly a guess

 

[sachos]

"Insider Gaming can report with a 100% degree of certainty that the PlayStation 5 Pro is currently in development." Is this site trustful? They seem really certain its happening.

Lets say its happening, what price and what kind of performance increase could we expect?
It will be 4 years after PS5. The PS5 GPU is around 6600 XT power, maybe a little better. To double its GPU raster power they would need to get to 6800 XT level wich is also around 3070 Ti RT power or ~2.2x the current RT power of PS5 (~2060). If they can manage to put RDNA3 in there then the jump would be higher, especially in RT.

I see this making sense if they manage to significantly increase the RT capabilities, maybe improve the CPU clocks to better handle higher FPS in CPU bound situations and maaaybe include some form of hardware accelerated reconstrunction. I would be okay with them selling at higher price to achieve a nice enough bump in specs.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Honestly I have heard this very thing at times

Whats the difference between calling something a pro model or a new model if everything is cross gen/platform for years after launch

A Playstation 6 implies a lot of more significant changes to not only the GPU (4-8x), though. New architecture or CPU changes, new methods of storage or greatly improved methods, and also a revamp of the controllers with new features.

A "Pro" is basically just a GPU bump only, usually 2x in power.

 

[CGNoire]

Im assuming its an RT machine.

 

[Knightime_X]

Your logic doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

New phones come out every year and those cost upwards of $1000 and more. So are you getting scammed every year then because a new phone keeps coming out from same brand every year?

What about the GPUs, new GPUs come out every 2 years. I guess that's a scam too. Stop with this nonsense, no one is forcing you to buy shit. Also, consoles are even cheaper than phones and GPUs and they have far more years between them.

Your logic doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

New phones come out every year and those cost upwards of $1000 and more. So are you getting scammed every year then because a new phone keeps coming out from same brand every year?

What about the GPUs, new GPUs come out every 2 years. I guess that's a scam too. Stop with this nonsense, no one is forcing you to buy shit. Also, consoles are even cheaper than phones and GPUs and they have far more years between them.

Imagine buying every new phone or gpu the moment they come out.
Who even does that? You??
That's on you how you manage your finances.

As for consoles, most games can't even utilize pro features so it's hugely wasted.
And what's worse is pro isn't even that great of an upgrade.

No way will ps5 pro go from its current iteration to something like an rtx 4080.
It's not worth it.
I'd LOVE to be wrong, but I'll likely win powerball jackpot twice before that happens.

At least with a gpu a game from several generations ago can use it to a much greater extent.

Either wait and buy the ps6 to get ps5 pros benefits for the few games that even use it or skip ps5 and wait for pro.

Ps4 pro was useless for most games.
Some games that did use it were STILL 30fps. Not even true 4k upgrade.
Checkerboard resolution in most cases.
Not worth buying a console twice for little to no noteworthy gains.

That, my friend makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Imagine buying every new phone or gpu the moment they come out.
Who even does that? You??
That's on you how you manage your finances.

As for consoles, most games can't even utilize pro features so it's hugely wasted.
And what's worse is pro isn't even that great of an upgrade.

No way will ps5 pro go from its current iteration to something like an rtx 4080.
It's not worth it.
I'd LOVE to be wrong, but I'll likely win powerball jackpot twice before that happens.

At least with a gpu a game from several generations ago can use it to a much greater extent.

Either wait and buy the ps6 to get ps5 pros benefits for the few games that even use it or skip ps5 and wait for pro.

Ps4 pro was useless for most games.
Some games that did use it were STILL 30fps. Not even true 4k upgrade.
Checkerboard resolution in most cases.
Not work buying a console twice for little to no noteworthy gains.

That, my friend makes no sense whatsoever.

Phones? I buy the newest one yearly though still sitting on the last years model and haven’t upgraded just yet

GPUs? I buy the high end new one every time they launch

There are people out there with plenty of disposable cash wanting these new toys

 

[Alesimage]

Early adopters got screwed.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

Imagine buying every new phone or gpu the moment they come out.
Who even does that? You??
That's on you how you manage your finances.

As for consoles, most games can't even utilize pro features so it's hugely wasted.
And what's worse is pro isn't even that great of an upgrade.

No way will ps5 pro go from its current iteration to something like an rtx 4080.
It's not worth it.
I'd LOVE to be wrong, but I'll likely win powerball jackpot twice before that happens.

At least with a gpu a game from several generations ago can use it to a much greater extent.

Either wait and buy the ps6 to get ps5 pros benefits for the few games that even use it or skip ps5 and wait for pro.

Ps4 pro was useless for most games.
Some games that did use it were STILL 30fps. Not even true 4k upgrade.
Checkerboard resolution in most cases.
Not work buying a console twice for little to no noteworthy gains.

That, my friend makes no sense whatsoever.

Whether a PS5 Pro comes out or not, nothing changes the games you will get on your PS5. Pro is 100% optional.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

Early adopters got screwed.

Does your PS5 explode on PS5 Pro release day or something?

 

[Balducci30]

I kinda get it actually - cus now we’re moving on from cross gen - and not everything’s gonna be 60 fps - and people are gonna complain about it not being 60 fps - so make a more powerful console that can handle truly next gen games at that framerate? Plus raytracing - I see it.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

"Insider Gaming can report with a 100% degree of certainty that the PlayStation 5 Pro is currently in development." Is this site trustful? They seem really certain its happening.

Lets say its happening, what price and what kind of performance increase could we expect?
It will be 4 years after PS5. The PS5 GPU is around 6600 XT power, maybe a little better. To double its GPU raster power they would need to get to 6800 XT level wich is also around 3070 Ti RT power or ~2.2x the current RT power of PS5 (~2060). If they can manage to put RDNA3 in there then the jump would be higher, especially in RT.

I see this making sense if they manage to significantly increase the RT capabilities, maybe improve the CPU clocks to better handle higher FPS in CPU bound situations and maaaybe include some form of hardware accelerated reconstrunction. I would be okay with them selling at higher price to achieve a nice enough bump in specs.

other benefit is more 4K60 games instead of 1440p60

That alone would be worth it to me. 4K clarity is really nice. 60 fps nice. But you can't have both on current gen hardware

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

"Insider Gaming can report with a 100% degree of certainty that the PlayStation 5 Pro is currently in development." Is this site trustful? They seem really certain its happening.

Lets say its happening, what price and what kind of performance increase could we expect?
It will be 4 years after PS5. The PS5 GPU is around 6600 XT power, maybe a little better. To double its GPU raster power they would need to get to 6800 XT level wich is also around 3070 Ti RT power or ~2.2x the current RT power of PS5 (~2060). If they can manage to put RDNA3 in there then the jump would be higher, especially in RT.

I see this making sense if they manage to significantly increase the RT capabilities, maybe improve the CPU clocks to better handle higher FPS in CPU bound situations and maaaybe include some form of hardware accelerated reconstrunction. I would be okay with them selling at higher price to achieve a nice enough bump in specs.

When it comes to PlayStation hardware I would take Toms word over anyone else out there right now until the Sony ninjas figure out who his person is

 

[Knightime_X]

Phones? I buy the newest one yearly though still sitting on the last years model and haven’t upgraded just yet

GPUs? I buy the high end new one every time they launch

There are people out there with plenty of disposable cash wanting these new toys

Buying a new phone yearly is excessive.
Is it at least an android?

Some are obsessed with needing the latest gpu. Only getting 390fps? TRASH! Time to upgrade.

I'm over here bitching about pro but I purchased a $1500 pc only because me and the wife fight over the one we have.
It came with a 3070 but not upgrading that until rtx 5000 comes out.

 

[sendit]

Imagine not wanting improved hardware and settling for mediocrity….

 

[Crayon]

I was watching out for PS4 amateur games to suffer when the pro came out but everything was fine. I didn't bother upgrading.

I'm used to consoles being a thing you don't have to replace till they die. I could buy a PS5 pro but I'd have to see some serious shit on-screen. The old res bump didn't do in it for me. If regular ps5 versions get stuck at 30fps I'd still be on the fence because if I am going to spend money to pump graphics but get no new games, I'd be looking at putting that into the next GPU budget, too.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I support Pro/X mid gen boosts. They are options. Not forced.

Last time there were mid gen systems, the frame rates and res were boosted. Or at minimum stabilized. Thats also when some games added quality/perf options.

If new mid gens systems come out, frames and res will be improved, but also this time there's RT to boost.

All comes down to what you want. Most games seem to have decent res/frames. And the options are already there. Probably comes down to how important RT is to you since a lot of that extra power will probably go to that first. If you love RT, the new systems will probably be worth it.

 

[Brigandier]

I'm in day 1 if the CPU is a big upgrade, If it's just a bigger better GPU and not much else I'll not be in a rush for a PS5 Pro... Ehh I'll still end up getting it day 1 I'm a sucker for new hardware.

 

[kyliethicc]

Sounds better but i think Sony wants more than 100 bucks for the Disc Drive.

sold standalone maybe like $130 sure

but they currently charge an extra $100 for the disc model. doubt it changes

Wow. So you’re saying PS5 digital is axed

Also the PS5 and PS5 Pro is the same exact price only the pro doesn’t have a disc drive (not much of a pro)

That’s marketing failure 101. Confusing sku’s

$500 gets me a ps5. One is a pro. One isn’t. One has a disc drive (NON pro) and one doesn’t.

Stupid. Stupid.

You’ll 100% be wrong and that’s a fact

Is this sarcasm?

Edit: Sorry about the triple post by the way folks.

seems you're struggling here huh

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

but i need games, sony.

 

[Boss Mog]

PS5 digital - $199
PS5 - discontinued or $299
PS5 Pro - $499

My guess is that It'll be $599 for the Pro and $349 for the "slim" PS5 with the disc drive add-on for $69

 

[Loxus]

One thing I haven't seen being talked about, are die sizes. This is one of the important areas to determine what performance to expect.

TSMC Will Reportedly Charge $20,000 Per 3nm Wafer

XB1 - 363 mm² (28nm) Durango
XB1S - 240 mm² (16nm) Durango 2
XB1X - 359 mm² (16nm) Scorpio
XBSS - 197 mm² (7nm) Lockhart
XBSX - 360 mm² (7nm) Scarlett

PS4 - 348 mm² (28nm) Liverpool
PS4 Slim - 209 mm² (16nm) Liverpool 16nm
PS4 Pro - 322 mm² (16nm) Neo
PS5 - 308 mm² (7nm) Oberon
PS5 6nm - ~278mm² (6nm) Oberon Plus

Notice the consoles from AMD stay under 400mm². Then we must understand smaller nodes are more expensive and if all the units if within a certain die area.

One way to combat die sizes and cost is to take the chiplet route.
Once, I proposed a 12-core Zen 4, 56 CU RDNA 3 chip. with a 319mm² (5nm²) die and 29mm² (6nm) MCDs, totaling 464mm² with 5 MCDs.

287mm² (4nm) GCD and 26mm² (5nm) MCDs, Total - 417mm² with 5 MCDs, 443mm² with 6 MCDs. Imagine the die size of a 72CU PS5 Pro.

This is based on AMD Radeon RX 7800 XT and what performance to expect.

RT performance should be around the 3080.

Then Moores Law is Dead leaked what may very well be what to expect from the PS5 Pro based on the Strix Halo.

There is also the possibility of a multi-gpu chiplet approach based on this patent from Mark Cerny with 2 PS5 gpus working together but this is unlikely to happen. Higher possibility this is the approach for the PS6 with RDNA 4/5.
Generating hints of object overlap by region testing while rendering for efficient multi-GPU rendering of geometry

My point is, looking at die size and cost limitations, we should keep our expectations in check and not expect most games to be native 4k/60 with RT.

Remember, PS4 Pro wasn't exactly doing native 4k. Most of the time it was upscaling, so expect PS5 Pro to do the same in terms of resolution.

 

[mrmustard]

sold standalone maybe like $130 sure

I think it will only be sold standalone. Official bundles wouldn't make much sense, Sony wants you to go digital with this move. I expect the console to be 449 and the disc drive 129-149.

 

[Panajev2001a]

One thing I haven't seen being talked about, are die sizes. This is one of the important areas to determine what performance to expect.

TSMC Will Reportedly Charge $20,000 Per 3nm Wafer

XB1 - 363 mm² (28nm) Durango
XB1S - 240 mm² (16nm) Durango 2
XB1X - 359 mm² (16nm) Scorpio
XBSS - 197 mm² (7nm) Lockhart
XBSX - 360 mm² (7nm) Scarlett

PS4 - 348 mm² (28nm) Liverpool
PS4 Slim - 209 mm² (16nm) Liverpool 16nm
PS4 Pro - 322 mm² (16nm) Neo
PS5 - 308 mm² (7nm) Oberon
PS5 6nm - ~278mm² (6nm) Oberon Plus

Notice the consoles from AMD stay under 400mm². Then we must understand smaller nodes are more expensive and if all the units if within a certain die area.

One way to combat die sizes and cost is to take the chiplet route.
Once, I proposed a 12-core Zen 4, 56 CU RDNA 3 chip. with a 319mm² (5nm²) die and 29mm² (6nm) MCDs, totaling 464mm² with 5 MCDs.

287mm² (4nm) GCD and 26mm² (5nm) MCDs, Total - 417mm² with 5 MCDs, 443mm² with 6 MCDs. Imagine the die size of a 72CU PS5 Pro.

This is based on AMD Radeon RX 7800 XT and what performance to expect.

RT performance should be around the 3080.

Then Moores Law is Dead leaked what may very well be what to expect from the PS5 Pro based on the Strix Halo.

There is also the possibility of a multi-gpu chiplet approach based on this patent from Mark Cerny with 2 PS5 gpus working together but this is unlikely to happen. Higher possibility this is the approach for the PS6 with RDNA 4/5.
Generating hints of object overlap by region testing while rendering for efficient multi-GPU rendering of geometry

My point is, looking at die size and cost limitations, we should keep our expectations in check and not expect most games to be native 4k/60 with RT.

Remember, PS4 Pro wasn't exactly doing native 4k. Most of the time it was upscaling, so expect PS5 Pro to do the same in terms of resolution.

The Strix Halo or whatever we want to call it seems more like the blueprint for a PS6 SoC than a PS5 Pro one. Your data does show how expensive getting chips designed for 5nm and lower is, the chips are not half the size with the shrink and the cost doubles (and more I think, those are just Wafer costs)… again more data that shows how quick and cheap increases of performance are dying or dead.

Looking at the timeline this would either be a console launched way too close to PS6 (assuming PS6 is two years behind it and PS5 Pro launches in late 2024) or if we placed it as a mid generation console that would mean about 8 years between PS5 and PS6 at least (late 2028 release date). The latter would not even be too too bad from a certain perspective because I think you do need a longer and longer time to develop an interesting and strong enough successor to show enough of a leap and the cross generation period between PS4 and PS5 lasted far too long (still we had COVID and we had huge supply chain issues that limited PS5’s reach and this removed incentives to shift projects to PS5 only earlier on).

In the case PS5 Pro and PS6 were only two years apart and you had the PS5 Pro you highlighted we would hardly have a great jump between them aside from the fact that you would have titles built exclusively for PS6 (it may feel a bit like a GCN to Wii transition, performance improved but… not as much as it normally would, not quite but not too too far off either).

While changes on the GPU side between base and Pro revisions have a precedent, remember PS5 Pro will be required to have 100% BC / very strict BC targets like PS4 Pro had so changes are more limited, going from custom Zen 2 to custom Zen 5 is a very large jump. Maybe PS5 titles were built with a bit better HW abstraction to allow this to happen more easily, but it sounds. It is the kind of heavy and expensive BC testing / certification you would do for a new console redesign… it is more likely they would keep the Zen 2 cores and boost clock speed to 4 GHz or more.

I am still not sure if a PS5 Pro console can offer enough resources improvements, enough of a performance boost, to really make a dent in the expectations gamers have. A PS6 with exclusive titles could take advantage of new architecture changes and new API’s… Pro consoles generally get less than a fraction of that investment, we are likely to see most studios dedicating token time to extracting performance out of these mid generation upgrades beside what they get brute forcing things… this means that the usual multiplier factor you get by architectural optimisations and new features is greatly diminished.
Games require more and more of a performance jump in the HW in order to show visible differences to players… still not seeing how the Pro consoles can keep this promise to players, I do not think they will. Companies can use them to effectively raise prices or keep them from falling, beside that they are a bit of a waste IMHO…

I do like the inference engine inclusion, but Sony would need to make it automatic or super trivial for games to take effective advantage of especially for a Pro console. Else it is HW potential that devs leave untapped.

 

[DonJimbo]

Nice but the wait is a big pain when Jimbo will you give more details and a release date please be this year or first half of 2024

 

[Physiognomonics]

I support Pro/X mid gen boosts. They are options. Not forced.

Last time there were mid gen systems, the frame rates and res were boosted. Or at minimum stabilized. Thats also when some games added quality/perf options.

If new mid gens systems come out, frames and res will be improved, but also this time there's RT to boost.

All comes down to what you want. Most games seem to have decent res/frames. And the options are already there. Probably comes down to how important RT is to you since a lot of that extra power will probably go to that first. If you love RT, the new systems will probably be worth it.

Nothing has being rumored about Xbox midgen though. I expect MS to do a similar thing but remember that previous mid-gen consoles were quite different in power and what their purpose was. We have rumors (and patent) saying Sony is going to focus on RT, but we don't know anything about MS.

I wouldn't be surprised if they are again 'surprised' by Sony new hardware and decide to counter them... one year later.

 

[PeteBull]

Why tho?

Fuck it! I'm in.

Thats the spirit bro, like i said many times here and similar threads, every hardcore gamer(many of us are here on gaf) will jump on dat ps5pr0 like horny humping dog once system is presented and we know specs are good, even 600-800$ wont block us, late 2024 or in 2025 at current inflation numbers those 600$ will be roughly same value as back in 2013 400$ was/what we paid for ps4, and no1 complaied about price back then.
https://gyazo.com/21f155bfce73666d111a33b297e55178 400$ from nov 2013 is already same value as 518$ in march 2023

 

[ThatPolishGuy]

I believe they will do Pro but this gen hasn't started yet tbh. So I think it's a bit too early.

Smart move would be to make detachable drive slim version as rumours claim. Make one sku, maybe move to lower nm, make a nice profit. And also sell the console at current digital pricing, maybe drop the price a little down the line to dominate the market more.

Then release the Pro version.

 

[Crayon]

The Strix Halo or whatever we want to call it seems more like the blueprint for a PS6 SoC than a PS5 Pro one. Your data does show how expensive getting chips designed for 5nm and lower is, the chips are not half the size with the shrink and the cost doubles (and more I think, those are just Wafer costs)… again more data that shows how quick and cheap increases of performance are dying or dead.

Looking at the timeline this would either be a console launched way too close to PS6 (assuming PS6 is two years behind it and PS5 Pro launches in late 2024) or if we placed it as a mid generation console that would mean about 8 years between PS5 and PS6 at least (late 2028 release date). The latter would not even be too too bad from a certain perspective because I think you do need a longer and longer time to develop an interesting and strong enough successor to show enough of a leap and the cross generation period between PS4 and PS5 lasted far too long (still we had COVID and we had huge supply chain issues that limited PS5’s reach and this removed incentives to shift projects to PS5 only earlier on).

In the case PS5 Pro and PS6 were only two years apart and you had the PS5 Pro you highlighted we would hardly have a great jump between them aside from the fact that you would have titles built exclusively for PS6 (it may feel a bit like a GCN to Wii transition, performance improved but… not as much as it normally would, not quite but not too too far off either).

While changes on the GPU side between base and Pro revisions have a precedent, remember PS5 Pro will be required to have 100% BC / very strict BC targets like PS4 Pro had so changes are more limited, going from custom Zen 2 to custom Zen 5 is a very large jump. Maybe PS5 titles were built with a bit better HW abstraction to allow this to happen more easily, but it sounds. It is the kind of heavy and expensive BC testing / certification you would do for a new console redesign… it is more likely they would keep the Zen 2 cores and boost clock speed to 4 GHz or more.

I am still not sure if a PS5 Pro console can offer enough resources improvements, enough of a performance boost, to really make a dent in the expectations gamers have. A PS6 with exclusive titles could take advantage of new architecture changes and new API’s… Pro consoles generally get less than a fraction of that investment, we are likely to see most studios dedicating token time to extracting performance out of these mid generation upgrades beside what they get brute forcing things… this means that the usual multiplier factor you get by architectural optimisations and new features is greatly diminished.
Games require more and more of a performance jump in the HW in order to show visible differences to players… still not seeing how the Pro consoles can keep this promise to players, I do not think they will. Companies can use them to effectively raise prices or keep them from falling, beside that they are a bit of a waste IMHO…

I do like the inference engine inclusion, but Sony would need to make it automatic or super trivial for games to take effective advantage of especially for a Pro console. Else it is HW potential that devs leave untapped.

Same. I do not see how these things are going to provide any serious improvement. Maybe they'll surprise us.

 

[deriks]

Suckerd like to suck

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

This makes no sense.

AMD still sucks at ray tracing so a ps5 pro won’t make a big dent on this. And on the other hand it’s not like 8k tvs are super common and there is need to support them.

 

[Physiognomonics]

One thing I haven't seen being talked about, are die sizes. This is one of the important areas to determine what performance to expect.

TSMC Will Reportedly Charge $20,000 Per 3nm Wafer

XB1 - 363 mm² (28nm) Durango
XB1S - 240 mm² (16nm) Durango 2
XB1X - 359 mm² (16nm) Scorpio
XBSS - 197 mm² (7nm) Lockhart
XBSX - 360 mm² (7nm) Scarlett

PS4 - 348 mm² (28nm) Liverpool
PS4 Slim - 209 mm² (16nm) Liverpool 16nm
PS4 Pro - 322 mm² (16nm) Neo
PS5 - 308 mm² (7nm) Oberon
PS5 6nm - ~278mm² (6nm) Oberon Plus

Notice the consoles from AMD stay under 400mm². Then we must understand smaller nodes are more expensive and if all the units if within a certain die area.

One way to combat die sizes and cost is to take the chiplet route.
Once, I proposed a 12-core Zen 4, 56 CU RDNA 3 chip. with a 319mm² (5nm²) die and 29mm² (6nm) MCDs, totaling 464mm² with 5 MCDs.

287mm² (4nm) GCD and 26mm² (5nm) MCDs, Total - 417mm² with 5 MCDs, 443mm² with 6 MCDs. Imagine the die size of a 72CU PS5 Pro.

This is based on AMD Radeon RX 7800 XT and what performance to expect.

RT performance should be around the 3080.

Then Moores Law is Dead leaked what may very well be what to expect from the PS5 Pro based on the Strix Halo.

There is also the possibility of a multi-gpu chiplet approach based on this patent from Mark Cerny with 2 PS5 gpus working together but this is unlikely to happen. Higher possibility this is the approach for the PS6 with RDNA 4/5.
Generating hints of object overlap by region testing while rendering for efficient multi-GPU rendering of geometry

My point is, looking at die size and cost limitations, we should keep our expectations in check and not expect most games to be native 4k/60 with RT.

Remember, PS4 Pro wasn't exactly doing native 4k. Most of the time it was upscaling, so expect PS5 Pro to do the same in terms of resolution.

Nice but I don't understand the specs of your PS5 Pro. The CPU doesn't need 12 cores, it needs more cache and higher clocked. Then as a console the GPU will probably need less L3 cache, Maybe 32GB should be enough.

What would be the size of an APU with 72 CUs (well 80CUs), CPU 8 cores and 32GB L3 cache?

 

[ozz ex machina]

I'd be tempted if it's less fuckin ugly than the PS5.

 

[TheRedRiders]

Nice but I don't understand the specs of your PS5 Pro. The CPU doesn't need 12 cores, it needs more cache and higher clocked. Then as a console the GPU will probably need less L3 cache, Maybe 32GB should be enough.

What would be the size of an APU with 72 CUs (well 80CUs), CPU 8 cores and 32GB L3 cache?

I don't see 72 CU's on N5 or N3 happening, the APU alone would cost Sony more than $300.