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[Bernardougf]

Cmon sony dont cheap out.. its a niche product for a niche audience ... give as the goods at 700 plus dollars and study the market for the next gen lineup

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Yeah... because the Ps5 has so many games on it that push the hardware.

I'll buy a Pro when there are actually games that require it to play. How long do you think that's realistically going to take?

Yeah because the games out now all run 4k 120 fps

Cmon sony dont cheap out.. its a niche product for a niche audience ... give as the goods at 700 plus dollars and study the market for the next gen lineup

I would gladly drop a grand on a product like this.

Come on Sony test the waters see how it would sell, I dare ya

 

[Bernardougf]

Yeah because the games out now all run 4k 120 fps


I would gladly drop a grand on a product like this.

Come on Sony test the waters see how it would sell, I dare ya

They never been in a better position to test something like this .. its time

 

[saintjules]

599!!!

$400 discless + $100 add on drive vs $500 pro makes no sense.

And making a $300 discless.... yeah idk bout all that. Maybe they can but I don't see them wanting to even a year from now. I think they'd rather do $400/$500/$600 and drop all those later down the line.

Agree on the $599 price. I couldn't imagine the price being under the PSVR2.

Give me that Matrix demo running at 4k/60 comfortably. Sold.

Why?

Either potential FOMO or can't afford to upgrade.

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

Power usage and performance gains in N6 are marginal. Not enough to make a Slim console.
The only real advantage of N6 is density. Here is what TSMC had to say:

Yeah ok, so about 18% improvements in efficiency that's good and in line with what I was saying. Who cares about a "slim" anyway? I'm a bit lost on what we're arguing about honestly lol

 

[winjer]

Yeah ok, so about 18% improvements in efficiency that's good and in line with what I was saying. Who cares about a "slim" anyway? I'm a bit lost on what we're arguing about honestly lol

There is no 18% improvement in efficiency. There is 18% improvement in density. And nearly none in power usage and performance.
Which means almost the same heat, but dissipated on an area 18% smaller.

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

Yeah because the games out now all run 4k 120 fps


I would gladly drop a grand on a product like this.

Come on Sony test the waters see how it would sell, I dare ya

This right here

Time to give us some options and different levels of detail / performance. I hate that somehow it's deemed ok to be stuck to a piece of hardware for 8 year old cycles.

 

[Lysandros]

I don't like the white wings.

Even on angels?

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

There is no 18% improvement in efficiency. There is 18% improvement in density. And nearly none in power usage and performance.
Which means almost the same heat, but dissipated on an area 18% smaller.

Come on man... don't be stubborn:

https://www.techgoing.com/sony-play...cess-lightweight-and-better-heat-dissipation/

"The N6 process node offers an 18.8% increase in transistor density, lower power consumption and thus lower temperature."

This is the cost saving I was talking about. No need for such an expensive cooling solution as we had for the N7 PS5s, which is why Sony has already made it cheaper. In theory they could already make it a bit smaller if they really wanted, most probably they are saving it for the new SKU coming later in the year.

 

[DevilMayFlyForAWhiteGuy]

If there’s a mid gen refresh this’ll be probably one of the worst gens ever.

Some people are saying we need one because something like Jedi Survivor is a shit show. That’s BS though and it comes down to the developers being shit.

They made a game using a modified last gen engine (UE4), and it can’t even keep a stable 30 FPS and has terrible drops and bugs.

Then look at something like last gen’s Arkham Knight made by Rocksteady (when they weren’t stuck making garbage). It also used a then modified last gen engine (UE3) on PS4/X1 and they made an open world game with several different traversal options, great graphics (along with artstyle), all at 1080p/900p (respectively), with mostly solid 30fps (which dipped a bit when driving fast in the Batmobile).

Something is up with development today. Devs just don’t put in the same effort. Mid gen refreshes aren’t going to fix that and only enable more laziness.

Edit: I’ll also had it’s not all devs fault, as publishers pushing stuff out the door too early is also a problem.

 

[Bernardougf]

This right here

Time to give us some options and different levels of detail / performance. I hate that somehow it's deemed ok to be stuck to a piece of hardware for 8 year old cycles.

It would be fine .. if the hardware was state of the art ... imagine a top of the shelf ps5 for 900 dollars (as an premium option of course, the normal ps5 would still be avaible) .... this could easily take us through 08 years until the next console

 

[AJUMP23]

Even on angels?

Well on Angels I like multiple wings. I like them on birds too.

 

[winjer]

Come on man... don't be stubborn:

https://www.techgoing.com/sony-play...cess-lightweight-and-better-heat-dissipation/

"The N6 process node offers an 18.8% increase in transistor density, lower power consumption and thus lower temperature."

This is the cost saving I was talking about. No need for such an expensive cooling solution as we had for the N7 PS5s, which is why Sony has already made it cheaper. In theory they could already make it a bit smaller if they really wanted, most probably they are saving it for the new SKU coming later in the year.

You are quoting some site with no sources. I'm quoting the info directly from TSMC. The company that makes the wafers.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

If there’s a mid gen refresh this’ll be probably one of the worst gens ever.

Some people are saying we need one because something like Jedi Survivor is a shit show. That’s BS though and it comes down to the developers being shit.

They made a game using a modified last gen engine (UE4), and it can’t even keep a stable 30 FPS and has terrible drops and bugs.

Then look at something like last gen’s Arkham Knight made by Rocksteady (when they weren’t stuck making garbage). It also used a then modified last gen engine (UE3) on PS4/X1 and they made an open world game with several different traversal options, great graphics (along with artstyle), all at 1080p/900p (respectively), with mostly solid 30fps (which dipped a bit when driving fast in the Batmobile).

Something is up with development today. Devs just don’t put in the same effort. Mid gen refreshes aren’t going to fix that and only enable more laziness.

Look at UE5 games coming and even John from Digital Foundry said to get used to 30 fps games being standard on that engine.

I personally don’t want that, give me the option to have a little powerhouse box that I don’t have to deal with 30 fps games and no buying a PC is not the answer for everyone.

I have a nice PC but want a powerful console hooked up to my TV not a PC

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

If there’s a mid gen refresh this’ll be probably one of the worst gens ever.

Some people are saying we need one because something like Jedi Survivor is a shit show. That’s BS though and it comes down to the developers being shit.

They made a game using a modified last gen engine (UE4), and it can’t even keep a stable 30 FPS and has terrible drops and bugs.

Then look at something like last gen’s Arkham Knight made by Rocksteady (when they weren’t stuck making garbage). It also used a then modified last gen engine (UE3) on PS4/X1 and they made an open world game with several different traversal options, great graphics (along with artstyle), all at 1080p/900p (respectively), with mostly solid 30fps (which dipped a bit when driving fast in the Batmobile).

Something is up with development today. Devs just don’t put in the same effort. Mid gen refreshes aren’t going to fix that and only enable more laziness.

Those are 2 separate topics. Yes, there's a problem with development pipelines across a lot of different studios (seems not so much with PS Studios), but this is not a zero sum game. You can walk and chew gum at the same time. Much like your hardware engineering teams can constantly be providing new hardware, while the software development teams should be doing their best when it comes to game creation.

Don't understand why people keep conflating the 2, like investing in new hardware somehow will take away from software development

 

[Lysandros]

That's fair. Exactly why no one is forced to buy it

You know it will have an impact on the industry regardless he buys it or not right?

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

You are quoting some site with no sources. I'm quoting the info directly from TSMC. The company that makes the wafers.

What sources??? This is not a new thing, the N6 PS5 consoles are already out for more than a year and yes, the cooling solution is different, cheaper than the original batch.
This is pure facts, not conjecture.

Here, you can watch Gamers Nexus teardown and review if you're still doubting

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

It would be fine .. if the hardware was state of the art ... imagine a top of the shelf ps5 for 900 dollars (as an premium option of course, the normal ps5 would still be avaible) .... this could easily take us through 08 years until the next console

I agree it would be better, but we both know come a new console generation and doom and gloom articles will pop up the moment a console will be $600 or more. So it seems we're destined to cheap out on new hardware at the start and them limp around for 8 years until the new gen starts again.

 

[winjer]

What sources??? This is not a new thing, the N6 PS5 consoles are already out for more than a year and yes, the cooling solution is different, cheaper than the original batch.
This is pure facts, not conjecture.

Here, you can watch Gamers Nexus teardown and review if you're still doubting

Sony changed the cooling solution.
But the process node had nothing to do with it, because it has similar power and performance specs as N7.
The real advantage of N6 is to save some money from having a slightly smaller die, with similar yields to N7, and not having to rewrite the whole chip to a new node.
And in case you don't know, switching a chip to a new node is very expensive, because it's necessary to make new masks. And they cost millions of dollars.

 

[unlurkified]

..why?

This fucking gen didn't even start yet, we've had like 4 or 5 actual gen exclusives
They're making the consoles basically PCs with 3 year new hardware releases
But suckers will keep on sucking

Proud sucker here. Three years on a $500 purchase seems ok. I got the dough, gimme dat teet!

 

[H4ze]

God I hate pro consoles

 

[DaGwaphics]

I don't get how this is still a surprise. Sony already explained that 4K TVs had next to nothing to do with their decision to create the PS4 Pro. That was all about trying to avoid losing players to PC as the base hardware aged. I expect they will repeat this behavior going forward. The updated model helps to keep those performance minded folks in the fold instead of fleeing to PC (which you can already see mention of when games launch like JS). These systems will likely always be the lower sellers, but if they keep the targeted buyers engaged they are a success.

People that don't care about the fidelity or fps as much can stay with the base model and forget that the Pro exists. The base probably stays the best selling version just like the last time.

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

Sony changed the cooling solution.
But the process node had nothing to do with it, because it has similar power and performance specs as N7.
The real advantage of N6 is to save some money from having a slightly smaller die, with similar yields to N7, and not having to rewrite the whole chip to a new node.
And in case you don't know, switching a chip to a new node is very expensive, because it's necessary to make new masks. And they cost millions of dollars.

Right... they changed the cooling solution because...

Ok let's drop it, I think I made my case and provided receipts

 

[winjer]

Right... they changed the cooling solution because...

Ok let's drop it, I think I made my case and provided receipts

You are contradicting the figures about N6, published by TSMC.

 

[MiguelItUp]

It's wild to me because this still feels like it's too soon. But surely folks will eat it up regardless, haha.

 

[Crispy Gamer]

Did you also know that XSX launched 26 Gpixel/s and 1.62 Gtriangle/s weaker than the competition?

Isnt that because the gpu is clocked higher? Anyway, I have no clue how that advantage translate to real games but I stand corrected if PS5 is indeed more powerful than Series X

 

[Lysandros]

Isnt that because the gpu is clocked higher? Anyway, I have no clue how that advantage translate to real games but I stand corrected if PS5 is indeed more powerful than Series X

Yes those are tied to GPU fixed function units' throughput thus the frequency. Metrics being the pixel fill rate and pure primitive/triangle generation and rasterization among others.

Without entering into details about the architectures each is slightly (18%/22%) ahead depending on the metric, hence it's fair to say that the GPUs are about evently matched in overall capabilities.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Was there any doubt? The current gen machines are severely out classed without any dedicated AI hardware. Accelerating AI technologies like DLSS and Frame Generation is the way forward as brute forcing can only get us so far given heat and power constraints.

The problem with this is AMD hardware stinks at raytracing even on their top of the line $1000 GPUs. If they improve FSR to the point it’s competitive with DLSS it would work on Ps5 anyway.

 

[Games of Today]

Agree on the $599 price. I couldn't imagine the price being under the PSVR2.

Give me that Matrix demo running at 4k/60 comfortably. Sold.




Either potential FOMO or can't afford to upgrade.

While I can't foresee it running something like the Matrix at 4K, 60fps, I don't think it's out of the question for it to smash linear games like Uncharted and The Last of Us 2 at those numbers.

I do expect it to hit at least 1440p, 60fps on 99% of games. As the PS5 can already do that. So anything more than that at 60fps will be amazing.

 

[Skifi28]

I certainly wouldn't mind grabbing one.

 

[Hunnybun]

Because it's a fact. People thought the same would happen with PS3 -> PS4, PS4 -> PS4 Pro, PS4 Pro -> PS5 and now PS5 -> PS5 Pro. But sure, I won't stop you from living an illusion once again.

Lol sure.

 

[AncientOrigin]

Saturating an already strained industry with even more SKUs thus lowering app quality/optimization per platform even further.

Cannibalising/diverting resources from actual next generation hardware researc and development thus resulting with an even more compromised product and evolution per generation.

No I don’t think diverting recourses from next gen is happening.The PS5 pro is the same except better cpu and graphics the research for PS6 and beyond is simultaneously happening.
The market for pro can’t be Saturated because there is no pro on the market.The pro is not for new people to the ps5 ecosystem it’s more for owners of the ps5 that are not so happy with the performance of the games.The more next gen games come out the more the base ps5 will have scaled back performance especially ray tracing.So instead playing Wolverine in 1440p with 30 fps with ok ray tracing the pro will play the same game in native 4K 60 fps with advanced ray tracing

 

[Metalman96]

People constantly say this and I don't understand why. There are still compromises even with cross gen games at this point. If you want 60fps you tend to have to take a noticeable hit on image quality. Also, it'd be nice to have 120fps modes actually hit 120fps most of the time.

Yeah that’s fair. Would definitely be nice to be able to have both.

 

[Crispy Gamer]

Call me naive but I thought more people would be excited about a Pro model lol instead of talking about why it would exist (it does) I thought we'd be trying to predict specs like the old days I want to play UE5 games at 60 fps when they finally arrive and based on the Matrix demo that's not happening on my PS5 or Series X

 

[R6Rider]

If true, the biggest choice isn't whether I'd buy it or not, but rather if I would keep my OG PS5 or not.

 

[Crispy Gamer]

If true, the biggest choice isn't whether I'd buy it or not, but rather if I would keep my OG PS5 or not.

I'm thinking it'll be all digital and if that's the case I'm keeping the OG

 

[DetectiveBananas]

Curious to see what PS5 Pro would offer, but I was at Walmart yesterday in the gaming section to see they had plenty of PS5’s in stock. Unfortunately, when I look at the PS5 game selection it’s pretty paltry. Where are all the must play exclusives to justify the console purchase?

 

[NeonDelta]

with the upward trajectory of PC GPU's i'm all for a PS5 Pro

 

[IntentionalPun]

I'll be buying 2.

I'll give my regular PS5's to relatives or something.

Maybe hookers.

 

[FrankWza]

Wow. So you’re saying PS5 digital is axed

Also the PS5 and PS5 Pro is the same exact price only the pro doesn’t have a disc drive (not much of a pro)

That’s marketing failure 101. Confusing sku’s

$500 gets me a ps5. One is a pro. One isn’t. One has a disc drive (NON pro) and one doesn’t.

Stupid. Stupid.

You’ll 100% be wrong and that’s a fact

You're making it more complicated. It's exactly the same as it is now. Instead of a disc version it's a detachable drive. It's just bundled.
Digital and disc PS5. Digital and disc PS5 Pro. The drive will also be available separately

 

[SeraphJan]

Is there any information what GPU architecture will it based on? RDNA3 or RDNA4?

If its RDNA3 I don't think the upgrade is justified

 

[makaveli60]

Ridiculous if true. We can’t even see when this gen will start properly, yet we are talking about Pro models… this industry has totally gone to shit in every sense.

 

[ResilientBanana]

I still doubt it's a pro, but merely a slim. It's already powerful. Unless Xbox has something coming down the pipe as well. I see this as a falacy.

 

[Goon_Bong]

The only problem with 30fps is devs and you. It’s not unplayable aside from few gates with lazy implementation.
Get a pc if you have these demands from 400$ box

I’ve got a midrange rig. PC gaming is shambolic in 2023 so with that in mind I’d like to keep performance mode options on the box underneath my television. For the players who prefer to look at screenshots, there are still quality modes.

 

[UnNamed]

People really can't wait to play previous gen games and remasters with this new PS5 Pro. At 700$ because no way Sony will reduce the price of PS5 now when sales are boosted.

 

[Lysandros]

Ridiculous if true. We can’t even see when this gen will start properly, yet we are talking about Pro models… this industry has totally gone to shit in every sense.

Gamers here on Neogaf only care about brute forcing performance and have plenty of money to throw around apparently. They can always cry "lazy devs" when a game hapens to perform below expectations even on their much cherished PRO consoles and ask for a new, more powerful one for the next year after all.

 

[Fafalada]

Anyway, I have no clue how that advantage translate to real games

About as well as a 2 TFlop advantage.

 

[avin]

Eh. For me, there aren't games I want to play on it yet.

But sure, if Sony does put even one truly great game out, I'll pick up a Pro.

avin

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

People really can't wait to play previous gen games and remasters with this new PS5 Pro. At 700$ because no way Sony will reduce the price of PS5 now when sales are boosted.

Count me in for a pro or two

 

[IntentionalPun]

People really can't wait to play previous gen games and remasters with this new PS5 Pro. At 700$ because no way Sony will reduce the price of PS5 now when sales are boosted.

I mean I'm one of these people, sure.

I do suspect that by late 2024 the pricing structure of the PS5 will be at least $50 cheaper though.

A $350 base PS5 w/ a $100 drive add-on is certainly not out of the picture.

Also I won't be buying the disk drive for my PS5 pros so don't suspect I'll be paying $700. More like $550 or something like that.

$350 PS5, $550 Pro, $100 disk drive available... holiday 2024.

My guess.