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[Heisenberg007]

As long as the total revenue numbers go up, that ain't going to happen unless he has some skeleton's in the closet

Someone at GAF then just needs to take a hit for the team, pose as a girl, honey-trap Jim Ryan into sending his nudes, and leak those naked selfies and sexting messages online.

Banjo64 - you up for it, buddy? I'll take care of the bleach for your eyes.

 

[GooseMan69]

AAA gaming is an absolute mess at the moment. The whole industry needs resetting I feel like at this point.

It’s an unmitigated disaster. Japanese devs are seemingly the only ones who can do fucking anything right now.

I have no idea wtf these western studios are doing. You know it’s bad when Naughty Dog of all studios is struggling.

 

[THE DUCK]

Please share more terrible takes . It's hilarious you're trying to paint as if Naughty Dog and 343i are of the same caliber.

Naughty Dog's last game was a 93 MC that won 322 GOTY awards from media and gamers, which became the record-holder for the most number of GOTY awards ever in history, and sold over 10 million copies in quick time.

Well as much as we know ND is clearly better, 343's last game was a 87 MC and also sold millions but people act like they delivered a 50 and sold 200k, so that's kinda where I'm coming from....

 

[suspicious mind]

Thid shit will never come out. You ll get TLOU3 in a coupla years and thats it.
They will not talk about this disaster game ever again.
I m starting yo understand why they were so desperate and paid way too much for bungie

 

[DenchDeckard]

Just kill it and move on and whatever you can redeem ship it with last of us 3.

 

[Vick]

I would challenge Naughty Dog to release a supposedly "work in progress" game and still win GAF GOTY.

They already did in 2016.

 

[Negotiator101]

AAA gaming is an absolute mess at the moment. The whole industry needs resetting I feel like at this point.

What? Literally 2023 has and will have some of the best games ever released, seriously what are on about?

 

[mckmas8808]

I had a theory that basically any work done during Covid was so compromised it might as well have been thrown out. These past few months in gaming have been eye opening.

I'm considering making a larger thread later or someone can do it if they want but:
- Marvel and other movies went off the rails
- Xbox was and is still in a tailspin
- Sony seems like they have hit a wall with newer projects.
- Cross gen stuff may have been far enough along to not be as impacted.

What a crazy ending to a crazy month.

Please make that thread, because COVID has killed everything. I feel like it's pushed everything back by 3 years. I thought we were going to lose only one year, not 3!

 

[vaibhavpisal]

They already did in 2016.

Uncharted 4 was work in progress?

Interesting.

 

[Fabieter]

Force?

It’s just a review process and recommendation. The teams talk about what would need to change, and a choice is made.

Bungie probably saved ND and Sony a failed project.

It's not about the quality of the game, it's about the quality of the monetizing which to be honest I don't give a fuck. Give me a good last of us multiplayer for 80 euro and iam good. I wont play a game as heavily monetized as a bungie game.

 

[mckmas8808]

Months ago it i read they planned something like 'cinematic experience between players'. I guess Bungie told them it has low replay value and no long-term motivation, but that's what Sony wants.

Me after reading the ND statement and me after reading the Tweet from William R. Aguilar:

Red Dead Redemption 2 is also a story driven game. We at GAF hate story driven games now? This might be the dumbest narrative I've seen yet.

 

[Banjo64]

Someone at GAF then just needs to take a hit for the team, pose as a girl, honey-trap Jim Ryan into sending his nudes, and leak those naked selfies and sexting messages online.

Banjo64 - you up for it, buddy? I'll take care of the bleach for your eyes.

I’d make a hot chick lad

Issue is I’m afraid I’d fall in love

 

[Heisenberg007]

I’d make a hot chick lad

Issue is I’m afraid I’d fall in love

 

[Banjo64]

Jim, fuck me like you fucked Xbox

 

[mrmustard]

Red Dead Redemption 2 is also a story driven game. We at GAF hate story driven games now? This might be the dumbest narrative I've seen yet.

To me story driven games are fine if we talk about p&c adventures or inteactive games like Detroit or Heavy Rain. Just not a fan of cinematics and walk + talk in an action game, but to each his own. ND is such a talented studio, woul have been nice to see something different from them.

 

[FunkMiller]

What? Literally 2023 has and will have some of the best games ever released, seriously what are on about?

Go back and look at the release frequency of acclaimed AAA games in generations past… and compare to this one.

 

[Kikorin]

Seriously speaking, about the GAAS meltdown, I absolutely hate these kind of games but I understand why they want to try with the genre. A GAAS that stick with the audience can completely change the future of a company, just see what happened to Epic with Fortnite.

I think Sony strategy right now is like "let's make 12 GAAS using also our most famous IPs, then cross fingers and let's hope at least one of them will works and become huge". At this point is difficult to ignore a market that huge.

I'm pretty sure even Nintendo will try with Mario Kart 9 or the next Animal Crossing, games that basically are born to be GAAS.

The worst thing here is knowing that some of the most talented studios in the industry like Naughty Dog or Guerilla have to waste time and resources in something that clearly have no experience in.

 

[Neff]

So much for 'the most ambitious project we've ever done'

 

[Fabieter]

Seriously speaking, about the GAAS meltdown, I absolutely hate these kind of games but I understand why they want to try with the genre. A GAAS that stick with the audience can completely change the future of a company, just see what happened to Epic with Fortnite.

I think Sony strategy right now is like "let's make 12 GAAS using also our most famous IPs, then cross fingers and let's hope at least one of them will works and become huge". At this point is difficult to ignore a market that huge.

I'm pretty sure even Nintendo will try with Mario Kart 9 or the next Animal Crossing, games that basically are born to be GAAS.

The worst thing here is knowing that some of the most talented studios in the industry like Naughty Dog or Guerilla have to waste time and resources in something that clearly have no experience in.

Its fine getting new studios in making them it really is, but forcing existing studios shows that they lied about that it won't take away from their sp experiences. If Naughty dog started the development of a aaa sp game we would have it by next year. We have to wait to the tail end of the generation to get a Naughty dog single player game.

 

[Vick]

Uncharted 4 was work in progress?

Interesting.

Yes. Started from scratch mid-development under different leads, and only "completed" in just two years thanks to extreme crunch and cut content.
Huge portions of its Multiplayer were also added much later.

 

[Lucifers Beard]

It’s an unmitigated disaster. Japanese devs are seemingly the only ones who can do fucking anything right now.

I have no idea wtf these western studios are doing. You know it’s bad when Naughty Dog of all studios is struggling.

Yup, the only outlier in western development for me being Dead Space (even on PC). Almost else is either launching in a mess or followed by some fucking apology letter.

 

[Lucifers Beard]

What? Literally 2023 has and will have some of the best games ever released, seriously what are on about?

Seriously? Yes, there have been some good games (RE4, Dead Space and Zelda) from memory, but there have been some absolute disasters and we aren't even half way through the year. Lets wait and see if everything else turns out good first before we start committing to these statements and saying shit like that.

 

[Panajev2001a]

The fact is, game quality DONT MATTER to sony.
Bungie said that they found out the game is DOES NOT HAVE ABILITY TO KEEP THE PLAYER COMING BACK.

It might be the best game in the world but if it's not making money for 3 fucking years with players constantly engaging... then it's not enough.
I am sick of this maximizing profits. Everything has to be played forever. Good game is not enough

Fair, but if the game is a Live Service which this is by design (free to play or cheap to play GaaS) then it not being able to do its job and being changed back to a multiplayer component or re evaluated makes sense. It is not a small AA production, but ND pushing AAAA production values for a GaaS project.

 

[Bartski]

 

[lh032]

damn, means even the project is not canned, it may take another 2-3 years to come out?

 

[mrmustard]

Naughty Dog's last game was a 93 MC that won 322 GOTY awards from media and gamers, which became the record-holder for the most number of GOTY awards ever in history,

Nope, not even close:

Top games of the year 2022 - Game of the Year

goty.gamefa.com

 

[Bartski]

damn, means even the project is not canned, it may take another 2-3 years to come out?

yeah. "Reevaluating direction" means a reboot. Game in its current state is probably done.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

 

[thekillergreece]

Let me guess…. It’s just gonna magically drop at the same time as Season 2 of the TV show.

Or, TLOU 3. I wouldn't be surprised that most devs moved to TLOU 3 project.

 

[I Love Rock 'n' Roll]

Shit! I was really looking forward to play it this year.

 

[feynoob]

damn, means even the project is not canned, it may take another 2-3 years to come out?

Depends if it passes it's test.
Deviation games didn't pass this test.

 

[aries_71]

Developer delay.

They are rally creative with the wording.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Nope, not even close:

Top games of the year 2022 - Game of the Year

goty.gamefa.com

Source: https://www.gameawards.net/2020/09/2020.html

 

[Camreezie]

This piece of shit is already three years late and now its delayed. Shocking studio management

 

[mrmustard]

Source: https://www.gameawards.net/2020/09/2020.html

I know, but Elden Ring got 436 and that makes Elden Ring the record-holder for the most number of GOTY awards ever in history.

 

[Vick]

Source: https://www.gameawards.net/2020/09/2020.html

Elden Ring surpasses The Last of Us 2 as the most-awarded Game of the Year recipient

FromSoftware's latest has dominated voting

www.gamesradar.com

 

[RyRy93]

ND shouldn’t be wasting their time and resources with MP, stick to your strengths

 

[FunkMiller]

This piece of shit is already three years late and now its delayed. Shocking studio management

I guarantee you this is the same kind of situation as Rocksteady, with different management.

The ND devs were working on a project they wanted to do, then get told by Greedy Jim to go live service… and the whole things goes tits up.

Looking forward to a few whistleblowers popping up to fill us in on the worsening culture at pretty much all video game companies, thanks to execs wanting to chase the Fortnite dollar.

 

[TheGodfather07]

I was concerned the moment naughty dog were making a multiplayer only game. That's just not what naughty dog do. Imagine if from software or the zelda team were making a multiplayer only game? It would be a massive shift from what people love about the studios. Who's idea was it to task naughty dog with a multiplayer game? Baffling decision.

 

[feynoob]

Please make that thread, because COVID has killed everything. I feel like it's pushed everything back by 3 years. I thought we were going to lose only one year, not 3!

COVID + length of game development these days makes this shit.

Glad people are seeing this now.

Devs used to pitch their new games, while working on their other games. Now says, the pitch takes a lot of time and production periods is getting longer..

Sony and MS need more studios if they want to keep up with consistent content.

 

[feynoob]

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

I know, but Elden Ring got 436 and that makes Elden Ring the record-holder for the most number of GOTY awards ever in history.

Did you read his post?

He was specifically talking about Naughty Dog last game and what that game achieved. At that time.

---

Anyways... I find the general tone of this thread very disturbing. I can't put my finger on it. Hypocritical? Double standards? Catch 22?

 

[SSfox]

Tho why the fuck Bungie are the one to tell if ND multi is good or bad, this should be Sony and Hermen job.

Fuck this trashy overrated studio tbh

 

[alb@tros]

The fact is, game quality DONT MATTER to sony.
Bungie said that they found out the game is DOES NOT HAVE ABILITY TO KEEP THE PLAYER COMING BACK.

It might be the best game in the world but if it's not making money for 3 fucking years with players constantly engaging... then it's not enough.
I am sick of this maximizing profits. Everything has to be played forever. Good game is not enough

That’s the meaning of GaaS. Retaining player for a long time. Quality is second on GaaS games.

 

[Negotiator101]

Seriously? Yes, there have been some good games (RE4, Dead Space and Zelda) from memory, but there have been some absolute disasters and we aren't even half way through the year. Lets wait and see if everything else turns out good first before we start committing to these statements and saying shit like that.

I'd argue your first statement was the real nonsense, this year is already strong and we have Starfield, Spider-Man 2, Forza, Alan Wake 2, Assassin's Creed etc. Do a little research next time ok pal?

 

[SSfox]

I have loved and enjoyed 95% of all games ND made since PS1. And when it comes to Bungie i though Halo 1 was good and... THAT'S IT. And you want me to believe in the latter? Get the fuck out here

At least positive thing here is ND are going back to more focus in their Solo games

 

[mrmustard]

Did you read his post?

He was specifically talking about Naughty Dog last game and what that game achieved. At that time.

I don't think so and who cares about the past or broken records? But whatever.

 

[Lucifers Beard]

I'd argue your first statement was the real nonsense, this year is already strong and we have Starfield, Spider-Man 2, Forza, Alan Wake 2, Assassin's Creed etc. Do a little research next time ok pal?

Edit: Can’t be bothered with the back and forth.

None of those games have released. Let’s wait and see if they’re good first.

 

[kuncol02]

I had a theory that basically any work done during Covid was so compromised it might as well have been thrown out. These past few months in gaming have been eye opening.

I'm considering making a larger thread later or someone can do it if they want but:
- Marvel and other movies went off the rails
- Xbox was and is still in a tailspin
- Sony seems like they have hit a wall with newer projects.
- Cross gen stuff may have been far enough along to not be as impacted.

What a crazy ending to a crazy month.

Chmielarz was talking about that in 2020 already.
https://www.theastronauts.com/2020/10/tale-of-two-milestones/
Phill Spencer was also warning that people didn't saw how bad Covid related problems were.

 

[Ozriel]

How did you conclude development hell from this?

Bungie analyzed the game and said that long-term engagement and monetization will be an issue with the current model, so they are reevaluating how the game should be to maximize its long-term engagement and revenue potential.

ND could release the game if Sony's plan weren't as ambitious.

Not sure how you can spin this as ‘ambition’ when Schreier’s sources confirm a significant reduction in staff strength working on the game.

Development hell is a term that's used when management milestones are not being hit by studios.

While I wouldn’t go as far as to say this is a case of ‘development hell’, it’s clear milestones aren’t being hit by ND. They’ve come out to announce a delay, and Bloomberg’s reporting paints a picture of development pivots.