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[FoxMcChief]

So single player is ok? Sweet. I haven’t raced online for any game since PGR3.

 

[Vox Machina]

What a complete shitshow. An utter embarrassment. Unbelievable.

Really makes you realize how desperately Microsoft needed to acquire Zenimax; without them they'd of had nothing for 2022 and 2023 outside of Pentiment. I know there are people who like that game but, it can't carry anything for two months, let alone two years.

Now I'm even more concerned about the state of Starfield as we near its launch in less than a month...

We've already seen Starfield though

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Even 1st party is getting effed, how you build a console and not even make it fully compatible with the shit your own 1st party studios is working on.
At least Mark Cerny went around asking people what they want, and then gave them what they wanted + more.

Facts. I'm starting to think the Series S is becoming a massive bottleneck. Yet another game with no splitscreen. The Series X can handle Forza split-screen. Series S? Well it only has maybe 8.5 GB for game data. 2 GB of that is going to be for non-graphics data (AI, collision detection, draw call lists, audio etc.). Maybe 1 GB of shared world graphics data between both players.

So for each player, with their own viewport, there would only be 5.5 GB available in RAM split between them. 2.75 GB per player. For current gen-level assets quality and volume, that is probably just way too little. No wonder Larian are having problems with Baldur's Gate 3 on that system; we're going to see more of this until Series S is finally phased out.

We've already seen Starfield though

Yes. With frame drops into 20 FPS, and chopped-up segments of parts of the game loop, carefully edited with rampant commentary over the footage.

There's no demo for it at Gamescon, no demo ahead of launch (seemingly), no bundles, no Special Edition consoles, the only advertisement so far for the game is for $2000 Samsung TVs...

I don't sense a lot of confidence from MS on this game. Kinda feel for Bethesda & Pete Hines here tbh.

 

[DeepEnigma]

So single player* is ok? Sweet. I haven’t raced online for any game since PGR3.

*requires online

 

[FoxMcChief]

*requires online

Didn’t stop me from loving Gran Turismo 7 single player.

 

[Team Andromeda]

All features no one gives a toss about , untill now ..

 

[Zok310]

Facts. I'm starting to think the Series S is becoming a massive bottleneck. Yet another game with no splitscreen. The Series X can handle Forza split-screen. Series S? Well it only has maybe 8.5 GB for game data. 2 GB of that is going to be for non-graphics data (AI, collision detection, draw call lists, audio etc.). Maybe 1 GB of shared world graphics data between both players.

So for each player, with their own viewport, there would only be 5.5 GB available in RAM split between them. 2.75 GB per player. For current gen-level assets quality and volume, that is probably just way too little. No wonder Larian are having problems with Baldur's Gate 3 on that system; we're going to see more of this until Series S is finally phased out.

I know they are mismanaged but i can’t believe they painted themself into a corner like this again.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Didn’t stop me from loving Gran Turismo 7 single player.

 

[GeoramA]

Not even first-party devs can figure out the Series S bottleneck. Unreal.

 

[Vox Machina]

Yes. With frame drops into 20 FPS, and chopped-up segments of parts of the game loop, carefully edited with rampant commentary over the footage.

There's no demo for it at Gamescon, no demo ahead of launch (seemingly), no bundles, no Special Edition consoles, the only advertisement so far for the game is for $2000 Samsung TVs...

I don't sense a lot of confidence from MS on this game. Kinda feel for Bethesda & Pete Hines here tbh.

True, true. I'll check up on you after launch and see what your concern levels are for Starfield based on the lack of Splitscreen in Forza Motorsport.

 

[Three]

Why won't they allow Larian to launch and patch later for splitscreen?

Special treatment?

One of them they can launch a game lacking said features only on xbox so you wouldn't know it's a downgraded experience, then pass it of as another creative choice, on the other people will know it has splitscreen on other platforms so we can't allow that.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Part of their reveal today just doesn't look good to me

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

It seems the development team really decided to put all their resources into the competitive aspect of the game. As long as those features are still coming, I don't mind.

Isn't MP-only the same thing GT Sport got raked over the coals for years ago? Is it suddenly OK now to focus on MP at the expense of SP content? I bet you if GT7 didn't have a robust SP offering, it'd of scored measurably worst.

Let's see reviewers keep that same energy for Forza Motorsport (they won't).

I know they are mismanaged but i can’t believe they painted themself into a corner like this again.

I'm surprised, too. Just feels like they were 100% not ready for this console generation. I've got growing issues with Sony ATM but that's more so in their planned roadmap and lack of communication for non-GaaS 1P titles. They at least still release feature-complete games Day 1, highly polished, with minimum bugs and improved upon earlier showings at that. Nintendo is similar, though thankfully they aren't unloading so much into GaaS the way it seems Sony wants to.

Microsoft has none of that consistency and without Zenimax things would be incredibly dire for them.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Forza had a splitscreen?

 

[Three]

I'm surprised, too. Just feels like they were 100% not ready for this console generation.

I don't think this is a console generation issue and not being ready. MS were much more eager to introduce the new gen.It's the GaaS way of development thats the cause. Launch with a minimal viable product and release piecemeal updates that get you into the news cycle and drive engagement over years.

 

[RoboFu]

Part of their reveal today just doesn't look good to me

What!? I thought it was real life for a sec there.

 

[Aguero9320]

Forza had a splitscreen?

Was news to me too.

Worth losing it just for the fake OUTRAGE though N64 could do split screen ffs…

 

[The Pleasure]

lol whats up with Xbox and splitscreen?

Their but whole was fractured.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Still can't wait to play it

And geez stop with the emojis in titles folks

Emojis need to be stopped. I agree.

 

[Mr.ODST]

MS needs to drop the Series S, look at all the issues its causing.

I understand its use cases but as predicted the further into the generation the worse its going to get

 

[Heisenberg007]

"Without Spectator Mode, Racing with A.I. in Featured Multiplayer and Splitscreen."​

 

[Heisenberg007]

Part of their reveal today just doesn't look good to me

Yeah, this doesn't scream "next-gen" to me. There may (or may not) be interesting things in physics, AI, and gameplay, but visually it's very much last-gen.

 

[StealthGoblin]

MS needs to drop the Series S, look at all the issues its causing.

I understand its use cases but as predicted the further into the generation the worse its going to get

They’d have fuck all userbase if they dropped the Series S.

 

[Crispy Gamer]

Last time they said no drift mode at launch I kinda don't want these devs to talk anymore because they just keep delaying stuff

 

[SlimySnake]

Yeah, this doesn't scream "next-gen" to me. There may (or may not) be interesting things in physics, AI, and gameplay, but visually it's very much last-gen.

What bugs me is that MS did the right thing and let them make a next gen only game after shipping FM7 in 2017. They took 6 long years to make this? really?

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

lol whats up with Xbox and splitscreen?

I am oddly ok with games like these shipping without these fancy modes no one gives a shit about. Lets just ship the game with features that 99.9% of the players will use on daily basis instead of delaying the game over them.

Can't agree with that. You're paying the same price for less features, less value for money. If devs are going to strip features out of games where the previous installments had them, then the price should reflect it.

The game being in Game Pass Day 1 doesn't change this or make up for it, IMO. It's like certain companies are trying to condition people to pay more for less. Just cannot support it.

I don't think this is a console generation issue and not being ready. MS were much more eager to introduce the new gen.It's the GaaS way of development thats the cause. Launch with a minimal viable product and release piecemeal updates that get you into the news cycle and drive engagement over years.

That could be the real issue at heart here, which is sad because, again, Sony themselves want to go hard into GaaS and there's a non-zero chance this problem ends up affecting their GaaS titles too. In Forza's case this would maybe be more acceptable if it were F2P, but it's not. You either pay $70, or $16.99/month to play it.

Maybe it's not just GaaS that's the issue here; I get the feeling the Game Pass model is also to blame. Get all these 1P games Day 1 in a cheap service, you can't really complain if features are missing, right? You get what you pay for. If you paid $70, hey that's your fault. Should've just subbed to Game Pass to pay less for an incomplete game.

In that sense I'm happy that sub service growth as a whole is slowing down everywhere.

Yeah, this doesn't scream "next-gen" to me. There may (or may not) be interesting things in physics, AI, and gameplay, but visually it's very much last-gen.

It doesn't look notably better than GT7, an actual cross-gen game. And in some areas like color palette and lighting, I'd say GT7 still has the edge (we need more Forza footage to make sure tho). Those are down to artistic choices, though.

Forza's supposed to have full 3D trackside detail, but that won't make a real difference for a track-based racing game. Good for future-proofing, but for playing in the moment, no one's going to care about those being 3D or 2D assets, and with the latter you'd free up performance.

MS needs to drop the Series S, look at all the issues its causing.

I understand its use cases but as predicted the further into the generation the worse its going to get

They're legally bound to continue supporting it else they face a class action lawsuit.

The only way they can drop it is if they also replace the Series X with a new model. And, they'd basically have to shift over to a new generation while doing so. They can't really do that any earlier than maybe 2026, so they're stuck with supporting Series S for the next three years :/.

A final option would be to just 100% transition the business model to that of a PC unit, opening up Xbox consoles to run Windows, access Steam/GOG/EGS etc. and all of that. Would require a lot of planning and consideration, but they could probably get that done by mid-late 2024/2025. And then, just release new Xbox NUC-style gaming PC systems (either 100% through the Surface division or with other OEMs through close partnerships like Asus, Lenovo, Dell etc. & the Surface division) every couple of years with a tight console-like QoL/UI default experience (and Windows frontend as optional).

It will be interesting to see how Microsoft tackle this challenge.

 

[Hendrick's]

 

[DeepEnigma]

What bugs me is that MS did the right thing and let them make a next gen only game after shipping FM7 in 2017. They took 6 long years to make this? really?

Impeccable studio management. Give them another 3 or 4 3rd party publishers.

 

[Dr. Suchong]

Leaked Series S shot.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Contrary to some really downplaying the split screen thing, among the other omissions, this sucks. Guess it's wait time for the next FH. In the meantime, back to FH5.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Contrary to some really downplaying the split screen thing, among the other omissions, this sucks. Guess it's wait time for the next FH. In the meantime, back to FH5.

I Never Knew Racing Games Had Splitscreen™

 

[LiquidMetal14]

I Never Knew Racing Games Had Splitscreen™

In fairness, I'm aware the FH doesn't have split but it's just a better game but split, like in other sims, is a good selling point.

 

[DeepEnigma]

In fairness, I'm aware the FH doesn't have split but it's just a better game but split, like in other sims, is a good selling point.

I am sensing a pattern here.

I was also being cheeky from some of the comments.

 

[Portugeezer]

Early-access pass allows them to do this.

 

[rapid32.5]

Something something we got our engineers on it.

 

[Topher]

Something something we got our engineers on it.

Obviously Turn 10 "lacks resources".

 

[OverHeat]

Don’t care just release it!!!

 

[Neo_game]

Here is some of the gameplay from 24:39 and there is some wet weather too from 25:49

 

[LostDonkey]

Split screen because of the RT maybe?

Too many reflections reflecting your buddies reflections in your reflections while you reflect around their reflection, reflecting all your reflections in a reflection on each screen reflecting back at each other.

Probably.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Here is some of the gameplay from 24:39 and there is some wet weather too from 25:49

The chase cam is better than GT7's I'd say (less rigid), and the rainy weather effects show the graphics off better than previous footage.

But, this is not much any leap over GT7 visually. Overall I'd say they are about even, and I think GT7 has better artistic use of color grading, lighting effects, sun bloom & reflections. There are a few extra little details in Forza that GT7 lacks in the rainy sections though, so that's nice for Forza.



Around 2:45 for chase cam footage to compare.

“without Zenimax, Microsoft would have had nothing for 2023”

You’ve already forgotten about the game you’re so obviously ‘concerned’ about?

You genuinely think a racing sim is going to bolster system sales and perception? Especially in America? Racing sims aren't that popular here, and GT obliterates Forza in Europe (where racing sims sell the best).

 

[Ozriel]

What a complete shitshow. An utter embarrassment. Unbelievable.

Really makes you realize how desperately Microsoft needed to acquire Zenimax; without them they'd of had nothing for 2022 and 2023 outside of Pentiment. I know there are people who like that game but, it can't carry anything for two months, let alone two years.

Now I'm even more concerned about the state of Starfield as we near its launch in less than a month...

“without Zenimax, Microsoft would have had nothing for 2023”

You’ve already forgotten about the game you’re so obviously ‘concerned’ about?

 

[Riky]

I seriously doubt this is anything to do with Series S, Turn 10 have been concentrating heavily on next gen physics, real time change of day and weather. It's probably just not a priority for them.
Split screen hardly screams next gen compared to what they are delivering.

 

[DeepEnigma]

"Next-gen physics"

 

[Ozriel]

Yes. With frame drops into 20 FPS, and chopped-up segments of parts of the game loop, carefully edited with rampant commentary over the footage.

There's no demo for it at Gamescon, no demo ahead of launch (seemingly), no bundles, no Special Edition consoles, the only advertisement so far for the game is for $2000 Samsung TVs...

I don't sense a lot of confidence from MS on this game. Kinda feel for Bethesda & Pete Hines here tbh.

It’s going to really shock you when you see the day one concurrents on Steam

Second highest selling paid title on Steam, 3 weeks from release. Consistently #1 in global wishlists since Hogwarts Legacy release. duration in top 10 list during preorder phase comparing well vs Elden Ring and Hogwarts Legacy.

I think your concern is misplaced.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

It’s going to really shock you when you see the day one concurrents on Steam

Second highest selling paid title on Steam, 3 weeks from release. Consistently #1 in global wishlists since Hogwarts Legacy release. duration in top 10 list during preorder phase comparing well vs Elden Ring and Hogwarts Legacy.

I think your concern is misplaced.

That's Steam though. Steam is not Xbox. Starfield was always going to do well on PC, all Bethesda games do. It's performance on Xbox that's in doubt.

Also none of that means Starfield will run great though since it actually supports native 4K and 60 FPS on PC (also probably a "creative choice"), I guess you can just brute force past any unoptimized performance on that platform.

"Next-gen physics"

They look a lot like cross-gen physics from here.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Facts. I'm starting to think the Series S is becoming a massive bottleneck. Yet another game with no splitscreen. The Series X can handle Forza split-screen. Series S? Well it only has maybe 8.5 GB for game data. 2 GB of that is going to be for non-graphics data (AI, collision detection, draw call lists, audio etc.). Maybe 1 GB of shared world graphics data between both players.

So for each player, with their own viewport, there would only be 5.5 GB available in RAM split between them. 2.75 GB per player. For current gen-level assets quality and volume, that is probably just way too little. No wonder Larian are having problems with Baldur's Gate 3 on that system; we're going to see more of this until Series S is finally phased out.



Yes. With frame drops into 20 FPS, and chopped-up segments of parts of the game loop, carefully edited with rampant commentary over the footage.

There's no demo for it at Gamescon, no demo ahead of launch (seemingly), no bundles, no Special Edition consoles, the only advertisement so far for the game is for $2000 Samsung TVs...

I don't sense a lot of confidence from MS on this game. Kinda feel for Bethesda & Pete Hines here tbh.

Are you OK?

 

[Riky]

Concentrating on what matters.

 

[Ozriel]

You genuinely think a racing sim is going to bolster system sales and perception? Especially in America? Racing sims aren't that popular here, and GT obliterates Forza in Europe (where racing sims sell the best).

The vast majority of the time I’ve ever used the ‘moving goalposts’ gif, it’s been in response to one of your posts

We’ve pivoted from “no games from Microsoft Studios” to “Forza doesn’t move the needle so it doesn’t count”

 

[Elder Legend]

Who the fuck plays split screen in the year 2023? Are ya'll hermits living under a couch in bum fuck Egypt without an internet connection?

 

[Neo_game]

The chase cam is better than GT7's I'd say (less rigid), and the rainy weather effects show the graphics off better than previous footage.

But, this is not much any leap over GT7 visually. Overall I'd say they are about even, and I think GT7 has better artistic use of color grading, lighting effects, sun bloom & reflections. There are a few extra little details in Forza that GT7 lacks in the rainy sections though, so that's nice for Forza.



Around 2:45 for chase cam footage to compare.



You genuinely think a racing sim is going to bolster system sales and perception? Especially in America? Racing sims aren't that popular here, and GT obliterates Forza in Europe (where racing sims sell the best).

It looks better than GT7, most game do in wet weather IMO. Though it can be argued that GT7 doesn't look gamey.


But it amazes me that DC was way ahead of it times and still racing games are struggling to beat it: