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2 years in, can we call BS on the "power of SSD" in new consoles?

Clear

Member
2 years is way too early to judge, especially factoring in the pandemic.

Objectively to design around the benefits of SSD you need to commit as part of the initial design/prototyping phase and get that hardware requirement signed off by publishing who will judge the financial risk based on sales of current-gen hardware/software versus last-gen.
 
So, before this gen launched, I, among others, was sceptical that new gen was much more powerful than the previous one, but all everyone told me about was the new shinny tech we were getting: SSDs!

Those were supposed to be the revolution in the use of memory, basically allowing developers to imagine worlds and systems so complex we couldn't really understand. I thought it was just fast loads, but my take was mentioned as ignorant, at best.

Cue 2 years laters and... Yeah, I'm still waiting on this tech doing anything substantial. In fact, this entire new gen has been pushing so little boundaries that almost every game is cross gen. I have my series s as game pass machine and it's great, but I sure as hell don't buy on the power of these new consoles, and specially on those special SSD.

All games made so far can run on last gen still, with some simple downgrades, it seems.

Am I wrong? There was any game making use of this technology that i didn't got to see how big is the difference? Is the new gen disappointing for you?
In the first 1/2 year of the PS5 Ratchet and Clank Rift apart did make a good use of the SSD and theyr are and will be many more games in the coming years that will making great use of the SSD, so i disagree with you.
 
We're still in crossgen phase. 2-3s load speeds in Miles Morales have blown me away. We will see what they will do with more titles. Exciting times ahead.
 
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deriks

4-Time GIF/Meme God
Am I wrong?
Yes It Is GIF


Everyone already said that, but I really have to say too

You could argue that was more marketing about being the next thing and it's more a necessity than anything, but you can deny that loadings are way faster now and it's only the beginning
 

DaGwaphics

Member
Arguably the most next gen feature IMO.

I've resumed games a week or morelater , having played many other things in between, and picked up exactly where I left.

Agreed. It's been the most impressive feature of the generation since they announced it. It would be hard to not have the feature once you get accustomed to it.

I have no doubt in the fact that games that push the IO to the brink will be coming, we just need to finally get a regular flow of current-gen only games going. LOL
 

RCU005

Member
Those were supposed to be the revolution in the use of memory, basically allowing developers to imagine worlds and systems so complex we couldn't really understand. I thought it was just fast loads
This is not going to happen this generation. Developers don’t care, publishers even less.

Whenever we start getting next-gen only games, they will just be upgraded ones and will not have any innovation in world design. Also, PlayStation is adamant in releasing games on PC, and that would not allow for a game designed only a PS5 can play.

“But the PC has even better SDDs and specs” you might say, well yes, but they will not release a game on PC that only a few could play. They will make them for the masses that have potato PCs.

We’re still getting cross gen games and there will still be important games for last gen even in 2024. That’s you cue to know how things are going to be.

Let’s be honest, gaming will become just gatcha, micro transactions and DLC. There is no room for innovation anymore because absolutely no one in the industry is interested in that anymore. They are breaking their heads thinking of ways to milk money the easiest way possible. It has worked for Nintendo, Tencent and others.
 
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Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
I think gameplay wise something like Returnal would be alot more annoying on Previous harddrives. Not having to wait and instantly teleport to another part of the level is great. Theres no filler before the small teleports.

And the gameplay stuff, “not having a pointless corridor to load the next part” we’ll have to see. Most games are still cross gen. Returnal and Ratchet are the only games. Demons Souls and TLOU are remakes with the same level design.
This is part of the issue with Cernys original comments and his followers, it's just guessing work. A lot of what you say is fast travel and loading time related, these are the things not in contention.

Myself, others and I think OP are curious what the 4gb per 1/2 second will entail, Cerny should of given some clear to understand examples.
 
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CatLady

Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
I thought of one more thing the SSD does to greatly improve my gaming life. Fast to zero loading times on older games. If you play a lot of older games, especially XB360 era Bethesda WRPGs it has revolutionized those games. Known for exceptionally long load times and constant loading whenever you slept or entered or exited a building.

FO:NV could take 10 minutes or longer to travel from the Wasteland to your hotel room with all the different loads involved and most of them taking over a minute or more each. Now each load takes from 0 to maybe 10seconds each and you can get to your hotel room in under 1 minute.

As a huge Bethesda fan, it has made their games so much more enjoyable and playable.
 

Kokoloko85

Member
This is part of the issue with Cernys original comments and his followers, it's just guessing work. A lot of what you say is fast travel and loading time related, these are the things not in contention.

Myself, others and I think OP are curious what the 4gb per 1/2 second will entail, Cerny should of given some clear to understand examples.

Maybe we’ll see when more next gen exclusives come to PS5.
Theres moment sin returnal where its not fast travel but instantly teleporting to another zone and you can come back instantly too. Maybe before this would of required a corridor or cut scene to load up?
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
SSDs are a next gen feature, they do increase loading times and soon they'll do even better things. The problem is... well, SlimySnake SlimySnake has said it a million times before me, but it's simply because of crossgen, it's the root of why everything doesn't feel next gen yet despite being 2 years in. You can't make games designed for the SSD when games are still being made for the old ass ps4. And day by day, as the PS5 and Xbox series proceed to sell gangbusters, the excuse for developing cross gen only becomes more and more redundant. The sad part is that we're gonna have to deal with the shitass PS4 for 3 more years judging by how many crossgen games there are- even GTA6 is crossgen.
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
Maybe we’ll see when more next gen exclusives come to PS5.
Theres moment sin returnal where its not fast travel but instantly teleporting to another zone and you can come back instantly too. Maybe before this would of required a corridor or cut scene to load up?
The only way we might see it is if those post exclusives come to PC. PC users might need a lot of ram and and gen4 SSD.

Sonys PC strategy somewhat seems contradictory to the unique design of the ps5, because Devs may be encouraged to make there games more port friendly.

The teleporting in returnal does sound interesting but it's not what op is talking about.
 

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.

the ps4 and ps5 are literally the exact same architecture.
The PS4 has primitive shaders as good as the PS5 that can issue geometry instructions? PS4 has a customized geometry engine? I know what you mean as the architecture is similar for ease of development but PS5 still has big differences
 

Kamina

Golden Boy
Demons Souls on PS5 feels unreal when it comes to loading times.
Sadly most games are cross-gen and not particularly well optimized for the new
Consoles.
 

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
No he isn’t. This is what he said.

He is saying that it would lower memory use which is not the case.

I’m saying it would reduce the game size on disk, not in memory.

As for GOW I stated it had already been delayed. I didn’t state it was going to be delayed into 2023.
We can agree to disagree but I know for sure that duplication of assets last gen was to cut down on seek times from the harddrive. Memory doesn't have the same latency of the harddrive this time but yeah
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
The PS4 has primitive shaders as good as the PS5 that can issue geometry instructions? PS4 has a customized geometry engine? I know what you mean as the architecture is similar for ease of development but PS5 still has big differences
Customized Geometry engine? Primitive shaders that can issue geometry instructions? What kind of fucking marketing tech speak is that??? It renders geometry the exact same as any other console.
These days migrating from one console to another is easier than ever. We've got engines like UE5 which can work on any hardware while squeezing the most performance out of the system. We shouldn't have a period this long where hardly any new games feel like next gen. The only reason is cuz of greedy developers who can't let go of the ps4 and xbones massive user base
 

BbMajor7th

Member
With game design getting more standardised across the industry, I'm not sure we'll see huge jumps thanks to the SSD. The throughput on PS5 is bananas, but I doubt many developers will do more than clever tricks with it.
 

Ps5ProFoSho

Member
Is your brain a potato?
I went from waiting for hours for a game to download and copy onto my ps4 to waiting minutes on my ps5.
I went from waiting minutes for games and new locations(environments) to load to waiting seconds and even milliseconds
Go back and look at the first year and last year of ps4 games. It takes years for developers to learn exactly how to take the most advantage of console hardware.
Stop being an instant-gratification child and just see what comes with games like Starfield and GTA6. I guess then you'll reconsider this ignorant post.
 

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Customized Geometry engine? Primitive shaders that can issue geometry instructions? What kind of fucking marketing tech speak is that??? It renders geometry the exact same as any other console.
These days migrating from one console to another is easier than ever. We've got engines like UE5 which can work on any hardware while squeezing the most performance out of the system. We shouldn't have a period this long where hardly any new games feel like next gen. The only reason is cuz of greedy developers who can't let go of the ps4 and xbones massive user base
You're wrong as far as the differences. PS4 has no customized GE nor things like cache scrubbers that can get rid of the old instructions from the GPU to free up cache. You can call it marketing speak but these things actually exist
 
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ClosBSAS

Member
Of course it's BS and all marketing. We will really see when true next gen games start coming out, but once again, just like 4k, it's overrated shit.
 

JackMcGunns

Member
SSD has been great!

Edit:

Should have read all you wrote first, and I'm assuming you're talking about what was promised with the super fast SSD in PS5 making it a game changer, in that regard there was a lot of hype. Fast load times, almost instant when loading parts of the game and especially Xbox's Quick Resume have been GODSEND! but if anyone was expecting a game changer in terms of creating unique worlds that only work with an SSD will be sorely disappointed
 
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Faster loading and quick resume and stuff was always going to be the main wins from having SSD’s.

The people who were talking as if the SSD would somehow 100x the capability of the GPU, were of course silly.

SSD speed is still massively slower than RAM and you can’t magically overcome that.
 

Elios83

Member
What BS? SSD allowed for huge QoL upgrades in games, having almost instant loading times is one of the best features of new consoles.
If we're talking about games requiring data streaming in real time at the max speed made possible by the SSD that is not going to happen until the cross gen phase is over.
 
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scydrex

Member
The power of the SSD was always bullshit. It was done by one group of people to try and even the spec sheets up after the console reveals.
The SSDs bring a host of excellent features and improvements to this generation.
Loading times. I think alot of us with new consoles have already forgotten just how fucking horrible the old PS4 and Xbox One loading times were. Go back and try to game on on of those consoles after being used to quick resume and you will want to stab yourself in the eye with a pen.
It helps to offset the need for additional RAM, which is why we only got a doubling of RAM this gen rather than the big increases over last generations.
It is a great improvement.

However, the PS5 SSD won't give you any advantage over loading times to the Xbox Series consoles.
We heard that only the PS5 SSD speed could do Ratchet and Clank. That horseshit was settled when people put slower SSDs in their PS5 and it ran R&C just fine.
Then it was that only the PS5 could do those rift changes in R&C. Then fortnite came out with the same shit on traditional hard drives and the fanboys became quite on that one.
Unfortunately those stupid fanboys trying to save their fucking console in the spec wars really muddied the waters about what SSDs can and will do.
That's why threads like this come up. Instead of having conversations about what these consoles can do with their SSDs we are having discussions about bullshit that should never have been said

I suppose u didn't watch the DF interview of Rachet devs who told DF that there is a lot of performance left on the PS5 I/O and they are starting to scratch the surface of it or something like that...
Serious question and be honest about it. Do you think that Rachet is taking advantage of the 50% or more if not pushing the PS5 I/O or SSD? If they told the truth to DF in the interview obviously no.
When there is a game on PS5 that max out the SSD and I/O then you can prove your statement and if it can run on a slower SSD then yeah you have a point... right now using Rachet as the base of your statement sorry but is not proving your point there... think about it and try again.
 
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No... as we haven't called "BS" on TeraFlop numbers yet. We still see TF number and jizz our pants, even though we don't even really know how they translate to applicable "power"

The SSD "standard" isn't there for the users. It's there for the developers. I'm not a developer, I don't make games, I assume that a lot of the "benefits" of the SSD is behind the scenes and I barely notice them. I imagine that when you're playing games you won't even notice and it'll just seem like it's all good, but that's how good tech usually works. Only when there's an issue that you notice. Prime example, RT... if sat the average gamer down to play a game with RT and then without RT, I bet they couldn't really tell you why they liked the RT version of a game better. They wouldn't even really understand what was going on. When tech is good, it blends in and falls into the background... and "just works" Currently pretty happy with the "benefit" of very quick load times on current gen consoles.
 

AmuroChan

Member
I don't think we'll see the full potential of the SSD when it comes to game design until later in the generation. However, the super fast load speeds and quick resume have been welcome additions to this gen.
 

Rodolink

Member
well I can step into a game in seconds, thats enough improvement for me, also loading times are almost null.
(Currently playing Ghost of Tsushima on Ps5)
 

sloppyjoe_gamer

Gold Member
You can look at Ratchet and Clank, and Demons Souls to see what it's really like as a start! Until all this crossgen bullshit stops with other titles, we wont really see the true benefits in action 100% of the time.
 

darrylgorn

Member
Why is this happening?

My guess?

As far as steam deck goes, I'd imagine that the SD cards are the functional equivalent of 'carts' and we already know those had pretty good load times.

Perhaps SSD comes with other advantages for its durability and it's clearly faster than an HDD but perhaps developers haven't properly tapped into it because the market is still segmented and they don't want to exclude those who don't have one.
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
Titan GIF by UbisoftFR


How it's going OP?



This gen is waiting™ not only on PS5, but Xbox Series and PC as well

Difference being Microsoft fans didnt expect anything that they have not delivered regarding there SSD.
 
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Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Faster loading and quick resume and stuff was always going to be the main wins from having SSD’s.

The people who were talking as if the SSD would somehow 100x the capability of the GPU, were of course silly.

SSD speed is still massively slower than RAM and you can’t magically overcome that.
It's the freed up ram that the SSD allows that is the big benefit. Last gen so many things had to be kept in ram and ready to go
 
It's the freed up ram that the SSD allows that is the big benefit. Last gen so many things had to be kept in ram and ready to go

Anything that is computed by the CPU or GPU on a frame by frame basis has to be in RAM / VRAM. The SSD at best can be seen as a very slow RAM cache.
 

K2D

Member
Difference being Microsoft didnt promIse anything they have not delivered regarding there SSD.
I see, so you're looking for a pissing-match..

They've delivered what they promised.

I'm waiting for what they didn't promise. ..didn't even mention. The advent of games able to stream data from the ssd on the fly (as opposed to classic buffering) and all the unknown exploits which it allows.
 

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Anything that is computed by the CPU or GPU on a frame by frame basis has to be in RAM / VRAM. The SSD at best can be seen as a very slow RAM cache.
Last gen everything had to be kept in ram even things that aren't on screen

With the SSD the seeks are instantaneous so not everything needs to be sitting idle. And they don't have to duplicate assets to cut down on seek times like they did with hard drives
 

skit_data

Member
I think a lot of the benefits of having a fast SSD with dedicated hardware decompression won’t be directly noticeable as an end consumer, it’s mostly beneficial to developers not encountering memory management issues.

But, the effects of developers not having headaches about that will present opportunities for them. It may result in a more streamlined work process or evolve into altering game design. I think we will have to give it some time.
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
I see, so you're looking for a pissing-match..

They've delivered what they promised.

I'm waiting for what they didn't promise. ..didn't even mention. The advent of games able to stream data from the ssd on the fly (as opposed to classic buffering) and all the unknown exploits which it allows.
It aint a pissing match, people presume that the PS5s ssd system will perform better then Xbox series, but we dont know to what extent.
Cerny said more a less similer things to what Microsoft have said regarding SSD.
 
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Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
I see, so you're looking for a pissing-match..

They've delivered what they promised.

I'm waiting for what they didn't promise. ..didn't even mention. The advent of games able to stream data from the ssd on the fly (as opposed to classic buffering) and all the unknown exploits which it allows.
Truth be told I dont think either platform has delivered on what they said about there ssd's.
 
I suppose u didn't watch the DF interview of Rachet devs who told DF that there is a lot of performance left on the PS5 I/O and they are starting to scratch the surface of it or something like that...
Serious question and be honest about it. Do you think that Rachet is taking advantage of the 50% or more if not pushing the PS5 I/O or SSD? If they told the truth to DF in the interview obviously no.
When there is a game on PS5 that max out the SSD and I/O then you can prove your statement and if it can run on a slower SSD then yeah you have a point... right now using Rachet as the base of your statement sorry but is not proving your point there... think about it and try again.
Using Ratchet as an example isn't about Insomniac. It's about the rabid fanboys who used it to try and get a win in the console wars. They were the ones saying that it wouldn't be possible to do this game on Xbox as you couldn't do it if you didn't have the IO of the PS5. You might have forgotten just how stupid that era was.
I have no doubt that there is more IO speed left on the table over what R&C did. As with all things a system needs to be balanced. No use having insane IO speeds if the RAM bandwidth is now going to be the bottleneck, or having extremely fast bandwidth if the hard drive can't supply data fast enough to use that bandwidth.
The short answer is that the PS5 isn't going to have any ability to produce graphics that are superior to the XSX due to the SSD.
The powa of the SSD was just a Sony fanboy talking point to try and make up for the the perceived loss in the spec wars.
The real standout that Sony did do to make their system perform as well as it has is their tools. Yep, tools. Their development environment is super mature, easy to use and very easy to flow to from the PS4. That time to triangle that Cerny spent such a long time talking about was infact true.
Look how XSX suffered initially due to their less mature dev tools.
Infact, the battle between APIs and tools between the PS5 and XSX is actually worth talking about for what will eventuate in the future.
 

justiceiro

Marlboro: Other M
I don't understand asking questions like this. YOU have to know that there are like 3-5 games if that many that use the SSD. 98% of all next gen content is cross gen so far.
It's not my responsibility to make use of the features my consoles supposedly have. If the literal creators of said hardware aren't using, it's really there?
 
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