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40 FPS modes coming to Spider-man and Miles Morales on PS5

Mr.ODST

Member
So does Performance RT mode hit 120hz on VRR?

Just got my LG C1 a while back and not opened it yet .... might be worth revisiting.
 

DJ12

Member
they noted in the patch announcement that they increased the dynamic resolution targets...with the removal of V-Sync thats a + to perfomance and VRR handling any drops below 60 no prob I say its totally worth it.
Res increase is if there's no 120hz enabled. No res increase I 120hz mode just more frames.
 

Kagey K

Member
So is this good for the 2% that have tvs that can do it?

Or are we still generally down on developers offering more options to the players?
 

deriks

4-Time GIF/Meme God
No one really explained it (from what I saw). It's in the remainders of the division. Trying to display 45 frames across 60 refreshes means some of those frames will have to be displayed for a different amount of time to the others, and that results in the video being less smooth. That's why we're only seeing 40fps on console now - because 120hz allows for the clean division needed to display 40fps smoothly. It's very noticeable, so it was never an option before because it wouldn't have been worth it.

The same reason "Under $20" includes $19.99. Companies will say as much as they can get away with.

The why is explained many times in the thread on the first page alone. You could have read the answer in the time it took to post even that low effort drive-by post of yours
Did I touch a nerve? Or may I say, a web?
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
The 80.8 vs 75ms. That’s very close end to end difference for the player. I guess I need to read up on how the end to end works.
One is a 120hz panel mode, the other a 60hz panel mode.

You are getting pretty much the same response times in 40hz on a 120hz panel with the added benefit of fidelity graphics over quality graphics.
 
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YCoCg

Member
I still don't get why people are complaining about this as Insomniac have done this in a very simple way:

- Do you have a 120Hz screen?
-- NO, Then you have a choice of 30fps (Fidelity) or 60fps (Performance)
-- YES, Then you have a choice of 40fps (Fidelity) or 60fps (Performance)

- Do you have a VRR screen?
- NO, see above
- YES, Great you can play either modes at an unlocked frame rate
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
I still don't get why people are complaining about this as Insomniac have done this in a very simple way:

- Do you have a 120Hz screen?
-- NO, Then you have a choice of 30fps (Fidelity) or 60fps (Performance)
-- YES, Then you have a choice of 40fps (Fidelity) or 60fps (Performance)

- Do you have a VRR screen?
- NO, see above
- YES, Great you can play either modes at an unlocked frame rate
Exactly. They should put out this simple FAQ.
 

sn0man

Member
And yes, in theory this could be done console wide by the OS by forcing 120Hz display at all times and keeping 60fps games as is but enjoy the benefit of faster display syncing.
Yes. I was purposely drawn to comparing 40fps on a 120hz vs 60fps on a 60hz. Most folks coming from consoles up till these would have this experience.

I’m not saying it is 60fps equivalent but largely for a single player game there is relatively no downside. Incredible really.

I did mentally note a 60fps game on a 120hz display has even better end to end. Could make 60fps racing games feel more crisp. Exciting!
Because you get half the display latency at 120 hz and you also aren't running into the buffered frames of vsync that causes added latency.
So I’m familiar with the terms double buffer and triple buffer. I guess I hadn’t considered how buffering would be changed by this. I still don’t exactly get it. I guess I need to search YouTube for someone discussing how this works.
 

Arioco

Member
Why is 40fps great and not 60fps? 40 doesn't seem very good.


Because the 40 fps runs at 4K with all the bells and whistles whereas the 60 fps mode significantly drops the resolution and some graphical settings are paired back.

So it's really up to the user to decide if they prefer more fps or higher resolution with better settings. It's a good thing that we have the option.
 

chinoXL

Member
unfortunately i don't have VRR but have 120 mode on my C8 and you can definitely feel the difference from normal fidelity at 30 compared to 40..this is a win win..best graphics options while being smoother is great
 

Romulus

Member
I wonder how noticeable it is over 30fps. On PC, when I played 40fps, it was hovering around that number not locked so it felt more like 30fps. That was without vrr of course.
 
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yamaci17

Gold Member
I wonder how noticeable it is over 30fps. On PC, when I played 40fps, it was hovering around that number not locked so it felt more like 30fps. That was without vrr of course.
you either need 1/2 vsync @80 hz or 1/3 vsync @120 hz to get a proper look at it

40 fps on a 60 hz screen will look weird most of the times

it is a huge jump although numbers seem small.

amount of perceived smoothness from 30 to 40 is 8.3 ms (33.3 ms to 25 ms)
amount of perceived smoothness from 60 to 120 is also 8.3 ms (16.6 ms to 8.3 ms)

it is practically smiliar to going from 60 to 120. you would hear how 120 is transformative over 60 in most experiences, it is the same case for 30 to 40


this graph also shows diminishing returns after 200 fps.

 
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Tqaulity

Member
unfortunately i don't have VRR but have 120 mode on my C8 and you can definitely feel the difference from normal fidelity at 30 compared to 40..this is a win win..best graphics options while being smoother is great
If I'm not mistaken, the C8 can't do 4K/120hz and when activating the 120hz mode the resolution drops to 1080p. So in essence you would lose a big portion of what makes fidelity mode beneficial (i.e native 4K resolution) despite gaining the 40hz capability. Are you seeing this behavior as well?
 

chinoXL

Member
If I'm not mistaken, the C8 can't do 4K/120hz and when activating the 120hz mode the resolution drops to 1080p. So in essence you would lose a big portion of what makes fidelity mode beneficial (i.e native 4K resolution) despite gaining the 40hz capability. Are you seeing this behavior as well?
you're right, it does only support it at 1080p but the image looks real crisp..it must be the temporal injection they use i'm guessing because i can usually tell the difference easily from 1080p to 4k and i did switch the modes around just to see if i could spot the difference...hopefully it wasn't just a placebo but would be interesting if someone else with a similar setup can chime in
 

CamHostage

Member
I still don't get why people are complaining about this as Insomniac have done this in a very simple way:

- Do you have a 120Hz screen?
-- NO, Then you have a choice of 30fps (Fidelity) or 60fps (Performance)
-- YES, Then you have a choice of 40fps (Fidelity) or 60fps (Performance)

1440p is the only wrinkle in this, because unfortunately Sony has not yet and may never allow for the 1440p format (which is an odd resolution but apparently is common,) and yet some 4K sets have to kick down to 1080p to get into 120Hz mode if 1440p is not a possibility.

Otherwise, yes, 40FPS mode is a straight-up good thing and there's not much to say but "Yay!!" or "More please!!"
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
you're right, it does only support it at 1080p but the image looks real crisp..it must be the temporal injection they use i'm guessing because i can usually tell the difference easily from 1080p to 4k and i did switch the modes around just to see if i could spot the difference...hopefully it wasn't just a placebo but would be interesting if someone else with a similar setup can chime in
IIRC they fixed it for the C9 right?
 

Filben

Member
It's actually pretty cool, for scenarios where stable 60fps would mean way too many visual sacrifices but the game could maintain 40fps. Then why pass on those extra 10fps opposed to 30? Every frame more counts and does improve the visual experience, especially in those lower ranges; 100 to 110 wouldn't make much of a difference, but 30 to 40fps makes the image considerable more smoother.
 

Weezard

Neo Member
Tried Miles Morales yesterday fidelity at 120 Hz and it "felt" really nice!

Did not expect it to be that much of an improvement compared to 30 fps.
 

01011001

Gold Member
You have to enable 120 Hz to get that 40 fps mode, then enable VRR to remove the frame rate cap. That should take you well above 40 fps in native 4K with max settings, it's pretty much 50 most of the time. Very impressive.

the VRR mode in fidelity seems to be broken in some ways tho. for many it jumps up and down between 120hz and 48hz uncontrollably, which it also did for me when using the PS5's included HDMI cable.

now that I use the cable that came with the Series X it stabilised a bit and jumps up and down from 120hz to ~75hz/~80hz and back up again. better but still weird and juttery in motion
 
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Arioco

Member
the VRR mode in fidelity seems to be broken in some ways tho. for many it jumps up and down between 120hz and 48hz uncontrollably, which it also did for me when using the PS5's included HDMI cable.

now that I use the cable that came with the Series X it stabilised a bit and jumps up and down from 120hz to ~75hz/~80hz and back up again. better but still weird and juttery in motion


Are you talking about the Remastered or Miles Morales? Miles Morales is the one I tried and I didn't see anything wrong with it, on my CX at least. Do you know if other people are experiencing the same issue?
 

Rea

Member
the VRR mode in fidelity seems to be broken in some ways tho. for many it jumps up and down between 120hz and 48hz uncontrollably, which it also did for me when using the PS5's included HDMI cable.

now that I use the cable that came with the Series X it stabilised a bit and jumps up and down from 120hz to ~75hz/~80hz and back up again. better but still weird and juttery in motion
I think probably your TV has issue with the PS5. On my TV, fidelity mode is butter smooth. Mostly around 40-50 fps. I can't see a fps counter, but feels around there.
 

01011001

Gold Member
Are you talking about the Remastered or Miles Morales? Miles Morales is the one I tried and I didn't see anything wrong with it, on my CX at least. Do you know if other people are experiencing the same issue?

remastered, I didn't have Miles Morales installed currently due to soace restraints.

I think probably your TV has issue with the PS5. On my TV, fidelity mode is butter smooth. Mostly around 40-50 fps. I can't see a fps counter, but feels around there.

without a readout I can't take your opinion seriously sadly. I've come to accept that many people online really aren't sensitive to framerates stutters at all, so I can't really argue against people that "feel" it to he smooth.
 

Rea

Member
remastered, I didn't have Miles Morales installed currently due to soace restraints.



without a readout I can't take your opinion seriously sadly. I've come to accept that many people online really aren't sensitive to framerates stutters at all, so I can't really argue against people that "feel" it to he smooth.
Lol, what i mean by smooth is that there's no judder, i still can see the 40fps stutter, when it drops, and it drops frequently. I know the difference when there is judder vs stutter.
 
One more reason to think that naughty dog are garbage with their paid frame rate unlock DLC.

Sony should sell ND to EA they would be right at home.
 

01011001

Gold Member
Lol, what i mean by smooth is that there's no judder, i still can see the 40fps stutter, when it drops, and it drops frequently. I know the difference when there is judder vs stutter.

still, arguing against subjective feelings is not really useful online when it comes to stuff like this.

I recorded a lil video real quick and cut it together just to demonstrate the issue.

(excuse the quality, I just cut this together with a free app I found on the Play Store because I wasn't in the mood to actually boot my PC and use proper video software 🤣)


notice how Spider-Man has pretty steady refresh readouts in performance RT mode, but in Quality mode the refresh rate jumps rapidly up and down even while moving the camera barely down on street level.

as a comparison of a similarly running game I used Elden Ring on Xbox in performance mode.

what I think is the issue is that low Framerate Compensation seems to be not outputting evenly paced frames in this game.

if the game runs at 50fps you would expect to see 100hz output, at 40fps you would expect 80hz etc.

but notice how it goes from 119hz down to 70hz and below at times, which would mean the console sends out a very uneven framerate and subjectively I immediately noticed this too before even looking at the refresh.

without VRR the 40fps mode looks way more pleasant in motion to me. again that is subjective but I think my video shows why I feel that way too.

Elden Ring, which on Xbox also can dip into the 40s, which is why I played it at 120hz to make use of LFC, never felt even remotely this jittery. I could feel parts when the framerate was really low, but it still always felt smoothed out, as in the refresh clearly wasn't jumping up and down rapidly at any time

I have seen others uploaded similar results on other TVs. I would be interested in more people sharing how it runs for them
 
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GustavoLT

Member
You have to enable 120 Hz to get that 40 fps mode, then enable VRR to remove the frame rate cap. That should take you well above 40 fps in native 4K with max settings, it's pretty much 50 most of the time. Very impressive.
I have VRR set to automatic and apply to non supported games on! I get 40fps 120hz in fidelity mode, but my LGCX shows that it´s 40fps fixed since there´s no flatuation on hz display (8 times green button) its almost fixed at 118.8hz like any other fixed hz games!
 

Arioco

Member
I have VRR set to automatic and apply to non supported games on! I get 40fps 120hz in fidelity mode, but my LGCX shows that it´s 40fps fixed since there´s no flatuation on hz display (8 times green button) its almost fixed at 118.8hz like any other fixed hz games!


I told you. You need to enable Instant Game Response on your TV, VRR doesn't work if it's off. Then the game will allow you to uncap the 40 fps cap in settings/graphics.
 

GustavoLT

Member
I told you. You need to enable Instant Game Response on your TV, VRR doesn't work if it's off. Then the game will allow you to uncap the 40 fps cap in settings/graphics.
It's enable!!! I get VRR in Performance and Performance RT working up to 100hz!!! But in fidelity mode, its locked at 40fps!
 
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