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[CHEEZMO™]

Actually, that's just how HeadlessRoland always is.

.

Shame it wont be a perma. The forum as a whole is better off without someone like him.

 

[kehs]

Ugh. What the fuck. Hormone blocking drugs? That's bad parenting, plain and simple. I don't care what their intentions are.

Why must a child become transgender, physically speaking, just because they tend to identify with the interests commonly associated with the societal construct of femininity? Why the fuck can't they just be a boy who likes girly things and leave it at that?

Gender isn't a matter of interests or how you feel. There are males and females in every species of animal on Earth. It's a physical status, nothing more. If you don't identify with what "typical" boys identify with, that doesn't make you a girl. It just means you are different from the societal norm. No need to start taking drugs and having operations. Sorry if I've offended Transgender-GAF, but just stating my opinion here.

Your definition of gender is wrong. Research it and report back.

 

[Pand]

Ugh. What the fuck. Hormone blocking drugs? That's bad parenting, plain and simple. I don't care what their intentions are.

Why must a child become transgender, physically speaking, just because they tend to identify with the interests commonly associated with the societal construct of femininity? Why the fuck can't they just be a boy who likes girly things and leave it at that?

Gender isn't a matter of interests or how you feel. There are males and females in every species of animal on Earth. It's a physical status, nothing more. If you don't identify with what "typical" boys identify with, that doesn't make you a girl. It just means you are different from the societal norm. No need to start taking drugs and having operations. Sorry if I've offended Transgender-GAF, but just stating my opinion here.

There's a difference between liking girly things and feeling like a girl (if you're a boy).

But let's say you're right, and there's no such thing as psychological gender identification (I assume you'll agree that cultural gender identification is real), then this:

They said Thomas threatened to mutilate his genitals when he was 7, and psychiatrists diagnosed a gender identity disorder.
One year later, he began transitioning to Tammy.

still indicates that the kid may be better off with a transition to the female gender.

 

[Mechazawa]

Were the bannings on the ground that people didn't read the article in question and went off the original title?

 

[water_wendi]

I realize that, but it doesn't change the fact that "gender" is a physio-biological attribute. As humans, we attach all sorts of importance to the concept of "gender" beyond the biological aspect, but I still don't understand why parents would take it so far as to block hormones in their child because he/she "identifies" with the opposite sex. In an open-minded family such as that, wouldn't they be willing to just have a feminine son or masculine daughter? Why is the physical transformation needed at all?

This has just been my own experience but i find it very, very difficult to live with my body how it is. Suicide is not at the forefront of my mind but that option never really leaves. After i lost my surgery savings when i got laid off the despair i felt at the very real prospect of never having SRS performed has sent me to some very dark places. i have prepared on two different occasions to castrate myself but failed to go through with it.

 

[rdrr gnr]

.

Shame it wont be a perma. The forum as a whole is better off without someone like him.

I'm not one for backseat moderating, but sometimes people walk that fine line of poor member etiquette and lack of respect without ever directly violating a forum rule. So many threads get derailed because of those types of posters. But, reading through this thread and seeing the sheer stupidity of so many, I think my ignore list is going to get a lot bigger.

Were the bannings on the ground that people didn't read the article in question and went off the original title?

That seems to be the general consensus. However, I think Van Owen has made some logical points as well.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Jesus this place is a graveyard.

 

[Cipherr]

Someone posted it, (I had just found it myself).

PA made a comic about how they didn't really "get" the hype for MGS4 and their blog post insinuated that they didn't like the series past 2 and they still had nothing to play on their PS3s. This was 2008, so the SDF went fucking insane: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=310442

From that thread:

Yeesh, bloodbath in here.

- Dante
- TheRagnCajun
- Open Source
- Kestastrophe
- Ynos Yrros
- polyh3dron
- dfyb
- PepsimanVsJoe
- levious
- Solidsnakex
- mintylurb
- GeoramA
- WinFonda
- BeeDog
- LiquidSwords
- _tetsuo_
- VALIS
- Azrael
- daCuk
- tfur
- Druff
- LSM256


TWENTY-TWO PEOPLE BANNED IN THIS THREAD. Holy fuck.

Lord have mercy... But still it seems like in this case, the Title was so horrible in terms of properly describing the situation, that a little slack could have been given for the folks banned.

 

[Devolution]

Such as?

Fish (clownfish, wrasse) , Hyenas, worms, and banana slugs. Some of it is sequential hermaphroditism or simultaneous. I guess the sequential ones would be closer to human transgender/transexual issues.

One could argue that hermaphrodism is not necessarily the same thing but the point is, within the animal kingdom, there are species that can and will change their biological sex for various reasons.

Sex and gender are not binaries, even within the animal realm. That's the lesson here.

 

[InfiniteNine]

.

Shame it wont be a perma. The forum as a whole is better off without someone like him.

Actually I know it is a perma which I think was well deserved having gone through his posts last night.

 

[Neki]

From that thread:




Lord have mercy... But still it seems like in this case, the Title was so horrible in terms of properly describing the situation, that a little slack could have been given for the folks banned.

naw, it's not that hard to read the article and make your conclusions based on that, rather than the sensational thread title it originally was.

 

[ScOULaris]

still indicates that the kid may be better off with a transition to the female gender.

I'll give you that. I don't see how anyone could construe that kind of behavior as anything other than psychosis, however.

 

[The Technomancer]

From that thread:

Lord have mercy... But still it seems like in this case, the Title was so horrible in terms of properly describing the situation, that a little slack could have been given for the folks banned.

Whats incredible is that the comic wasn't even criticizing MGS4, just saying that they weren't very hyped for it.

 

[Baconbitz]

As long as it's the boy's choice then I have no qualms.

But he is 11. He is not an adult. Just because a little kid wants to smoke pot doesn't mean you give him some and let him smoke it.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Actually I know it is a perma which I think was well deserved having gone through his posts last night.

Seriously?

 

[Neki]

But he is 11. He is not an adult. Just because a little kid wants to smoke pot doesn't mean you give him some and let him smoke it.

What would you have them do then?

 

[Baconbitz]

What would you have them do then?

Wait till he is older.

 

[Arde5643]

Actually I know it is a perma which I think was well deserved having gone through his posts last night.

Love this "species" bullshit people pull out of their ass when it comes to homosexuality and transgenderism, when animals display this as well.
I realize that, but it doesn't change the fact that "gender" is a physio-biological attribute. As humans, we attach all sorts of importance to the concept of "gender" beyond the biological aspect, but I still don't understand why parents would take it so far as to block hormones in their child because he/she "identifies" with the opposite sex. In an open-minded family such as that, wouldn't they be willing to just have a feminine son or masculine daughter? Why is the physical transformation needed at all?

Because it's always easier to change the physiology and physical features of a person than change a thousand years worth of culture and mindset.

Wait till he is older.

You mean after he goes through puberty for the gender he doesn't want, gets even more depressed, shunned/mocked/bullied by his peers, and might actually start mutilating his genitals?
Yes, I'm sure that will be great to do it finally by then.

Doing nothing is also an action - a terribly grave and misguided action for this kind of issue. The hormone blocker actually lets him wait to make a decision.

 

[water_wendi]

But he is 11. He is not an adult. Just because a little kid wants to smoke pot doesn't mean you give him some and let him smoke it.

Its not as simple as you are describing. This makes it sound like the kid goes "i want to be a girl" and the parents go "Ok! Is Thursday alright?" i will say from personal experience that getting the option of SRS is not something therapists or doctors give out trivially.*

edit: * At least in the US.

 

[crazygambit]

Can't outdumb Fox News.

Really? If we have an 11 year old boy from lesbian parents saying he's a female, it seems pretty sensible to try and rule out any possible influence from the mothers in his decision (unconcious or otherwise) before handing out hormones to delay his puberty.

Can't find the dumb in that sentence to be honest.

 

[TommyT]

Holy crap what did I miss with this thread yesterday. O_O

 

[Devolution]

Its not as simple as you are describing. This makes it sound like the kid goes "i want to be a girl" and the parents go "Ok! Is Thursday alright?" i will say from personal experience that getting the option of SRS is not something therapists or doctors give out trivially.*

edit: * At least in the US.

It's not. From what I recall people who desire reassignment surgery have roadblocks/checkpoints including tons of psychiatric evaluations.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Yes and yes.

But now I have a vacancy for my "Worst poster" spot.

 

[Mumei]

Such as?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbpIiyo5X5w#t=9m11s

Watch from there till about the 12 minute mark.

 

[shadyspace]

Did _Dementia and Calcanus just get banned in this thread?

 

[rdrr gnr]

Yes and yes.

How do you know with such certainty? Moderator verification? Me and Cheezmo are about to run naked through the streets, but I'm not one for wishful thinking. I need certainty.

Pretty much.

Link/elaborate?

 

[InfiniteNine]

How do you know with such certainty? Moderator verification? Me and Cheezmo are about to run naked through the streets, but I'm not one for wishful thinking. I need certainty.

Pretty much.

 

[El Sloth]

Wait till he is older.

Well, isn't that what they're doing?

“But to do it at the age of 11 -- to me -- could be potentially dangerous to the health of this child," he said.
Tommy's parents, Moreno and Lobel, say they support their child and feel this is the best way for him to find an answer to a question he’s been asking all his life. They say Tommy – whom they now call Tammy – began taking GnRH inhibitors over the summer so that he will remain a prepubescent boy until he turns 14 or 15. They say they want to give him more time to explore the female gender identity that he associates with.

Highschool is gonna be rough for him.

Was this always the thread title?

Protip: proper bolding goes a long way towards saving your fellow gaffers

Did this thread just claim two more? Goddamn.

 

[subversus]

Kinda sad to read this thread. Problems that people have...

 

[Flo_Evans]

I just can't wrap my head around wanting to cut off your penis. I mean it's your penis do what you want but I think you would miss the little guy at some point.

 

[water_wendi]

It's not. From what I recall people who desire reassignment surgery have roadblocks/checkpoints including tons of psychiatric evaluations.

Even getting hormone therapy can be a challenge.

Here is what will need to happen for this child according to the Harry Benjamin Standards of Care.

The therapy with a child is perhaps even more stringent than it is with adults. All aspects of their life will be investigated to determine the right choice. And before someone asks [2] is regarding actual hormone replacement therapy or SRS, not delaying puberty which is covered in [D.1.] in the following..

 

[TheSeks]

Protip: proper bolding goes a long way towards saving your fellow gaffers

Protip: Bold isn't needed. Fucking reading the article, bold or not is.

Oh, wait, you're banned. Maybe the mods told you this already. Carry on.

I don't think _dementia was banned for this thread.

 

[ScOULaris]

I've looked around, but I can't figure out what I missed. What was the original thread title?

 

[MaximumX2]

I approve of the new thread title. Thanks mods.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Protip: Bold isn't needed. Fucking reading the article, bold or not is.

I liked this post from the first page:

This is like a crash course in who is reading the article and who isn't. Too many words GAF? Does your brain hurt from all the words?

GOD WHY IS THE INTERNET SO FULL OF WORDS.

Personally, I tend to assume that if there's nothing bolded the whole thing is equally important and should be read entirely.

 

[KHarvey16]

Am I the only one to notice the irony of a poster named Van Owen criticizing the mod action that lead to the banning of someone named HeadlessRoland? I might go so far as to wonder if those two usernames belonged to the same individual.

(now we'll discover the Warren Zevon fans present in the thread )

 

[water_wendi]

Am I the only one to notice the irony of a poster named Van Owen criticizing the mod action that lead to the banning of someone named HeadlessRoland? I might go so far as to wonder if those two usernames belonged to the same individual.

(now we'll discover the Warren Zevon fans present in the thread )

You know what? You are probably right lol They are probably the same poster.

 

[El Sloth]

I've looked around, but I can't figure out what I missed. What was the original thread title?

It's in the OP, in the title of the post that most posters, not called The Take Out Bandit, never use.

 

[rdrr gnr]

Am I the only one to notice the irony of a poster named Van Owen criticizing the mod action that lead to the banning of someone named HeadlessRoland? I might go so far as to wonder if those two usernames belonged to the same individual.

(now we'll discover the Warren Zevon fans present in the thread )

Can that be considered ironic?

 

[The Elite]

I've looked around, but I can't figure out what I missed. What was the original thread title?

The original thread title is still the title of the OP in this thread.

 

[Opiate]

I don't like the vague and rumorlike nature of InfiniteNine's post, so I'll just verify this: yes, the ban is permanent for HeadlessRoland.

Please remain on topic. If you have any further questions regarding the bans, please feel free to contact me or another moderator via PM. If you just want to know how long someone is banned for, however, we're not likely to give out an exhaustive list and I'd appreciate it if those sorts of questions didn't become common; moderation is not open to the peanut gallery. Roland is a special case here.

Now, again, stay on topic, please.

 

[KHarvey16]

Can that be considered ironic?

Not if they're the same person, but if they aren't I think it would be! After all, Van Owen made Roland headless in the first place.

 

[rdrr gnr]

^^ Thanks for the reply but we should probably keep on topic as requested. I don't want to join that list.

 

[Van Owen]

Fish (clownfish, wrasse) , Hyenas, worms, and banana slugs. Some of it is sequential hermaphroditism or simultaneous. I guess the sequential ones would be closer to human transgender/transexual issues.

One could argue that hermaphrodism is not necessarily the same thing but the point is, within the animal kingdom, there are species that can and will change their biological sex for various reasons.

Sex and gender are not binaries, even within the animal realm. That's the lesson here.

There's a difference between being able to physically change your sex inherent to your species and a human taking drugs or undergoing surgery.

Not that any of those animals were able to express that they felt like they were born with the wrong gender...

 

[Van Owen]

You know what? You are probably right lol They are probably the same poster.

lol

But no. I'm sure ip checks and email verifications can confirm.

 

[Devolution]

There's a difference between being able to physically change your sex inherent to your species and a human taking drugs or undergoing surgery.

Not that any of those animals were able to express that they felt like they were born with the wrong gender...

That wasn't my point. The idea that sex exists in binaries, even in nature, is a flat out willfully ignorant statement. Hell not one person I know of is chemically or biologically 100% male or female. Both sexes have levels of testosterone and estrogen. And even those don't encompass all that is chemically male/female. We even have, gasp, different levels among women and different levels among men.

If people are going to tout "nature" as some measuring stick then they best not talk out of their ass about nature only exhibiting binaries of male and female. I posted more than a few animals that do not. That was the point.

 

[Van Owen]

That wasn't my point. The idea that sex exists in binaries, even in nature, is a flat out willfully ignorant statement. Hell not one person I know of is chemically or biologically 100% male or female. Both sexes have levels of testosterone and estrogen. And even those don't encompass all that is chemically male/female. We even have, gasp, different levels among women and different levels among men.

If people are going to tout "nature" as some measuring stick then they best not talk out of their ass about nature only exhibiting binaries of male and female. I posted more than a few animals that do not. That was the point.

The primary characteristic of sex is the sexual organ, which is essentially binary for human beings.

 

[shintoki]

But he is 11. He is not an adult. Just because a little kid wants to smoke pot doesn't mean you give him some and let him smoke it.

An 11 year old, while not knowing everything he'll want to be. Probably knows at the very least what sex he wants to be. Many adults like to make it out that kids are stupid, but they do know more then we give them credit to.

And the importance of the age is how far along he is. The longer he waits, its not going to turn out as well as if he started to before puberty. The kid has gone to clinics and psychologist for this, they seem to agree, and this is going to be a moderated procedure.

 

[Devolution]

The primary characteristic of sex is the sexual organ, which is essentially binary for human beings.

Not always. There are quite a few intersexed individuals who have been harmed by this line of thinking (and mutilated). And chemicals/the brain can be more of a primary characteristic than physical attributes, that's the biggest issue with intersexed/transgender individuals.

 

[Gvaz]

moderation is not open to the peanut gallery.

Just wanted to say, I hope sometime in the future it is since it helps everyone know where the lines are drawn, as the faqs are not exhaustive and frequently each ban is per moderator's discretion sooo.

Anyways I wanted to ask, though perhaps it's a question for the transgaf thread: Is it possible to clarify in simple terms what makes one identify with a specific gender? It is more than just a feeling or like....for lack of a better phrase, a state of mind? I'm honestly ignorant about that and would like clarification since I honestly don't know, though I understand gender itself are not black and white dichotomies. Like for this kid, was it more that he was comfortable with things socially attributed to girls, like hobbies, dresses, whatever?
The question means well, I want to know...