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[SneakyStephan]

The great thing about the perceived clusterfuck that is the next Xbox is the nerd rage and criticism isn't just entertaining to watch, but can bring out creativity too. I've seen as many funny anti-MS gifs in the past few weeks as funny pro-Kaz ones before the PS4 launch.

Holy shit that gif, such a classic, so brilliant, wow.
The emotions it conveys.

 

[OUT FOX EM]

what good does it do Microsoft to let a poisonous untrue rumor continue to fester when they could squash it with a single sentence that wouldn't give anything away about their new system?

and how late do you think they can leave decisions like this? the console will likely be launching in six months... and will likely announce it's always online requirement (or lack of one) in less than two. contracts have to be drawn up. backbones need to be programmed.

it's one things to play your cards close to you chest... it's another thing not to deny some poisonous bullshit if indeed it is bullshit. if the rumors were saying 'new xbox microwaves babies' would people be arguing it was a good idea for Microsoft not to come right out and confirm that, no, in fact, it doesn't microwave babies. what business advantage do they gain from this?

Well it seems "poisonous" to us, but we're a very vocal minority, let's be honest. How many Xbox 360's have been sold? 75 million? There's maybe 1% of those 75 million that are aware of the current rumors. And no matter what's been said up to this point, one official announcement would squash it. 6 months from now nobody will be basing their purchasing decision on squashed rumors.

As for development, the always online requirement should be easily removed via firmware. If the current timeout is 3 minutes, they could set the timeout to some unattainable number, essentially eliminating it immediately. The development time isn't an issue here.

 

[Syphon Filter]

When Ballmer gets the boot you know MS is on it's way to reform.

didnt investors want ballmer out?

 

[Bsigg12]

didnt investors want ballmer out?

I don't remember but he has made them a lot of money.

 

[OUT FOX EM]

I don't remember but he has made them a lot of money.

He's made the company a lot of money, but not the stockholders. So yes, the stockholders want a new CEO.

 

[eso76]

The great thing about the perceived clusterfuck that is the next Xbox is the nerd rage and criticism isn't just entertaining to watch, but can bring out creativity too. I've seen as many funny anti-MS gifs in the past few weeks as funny pro-Kaz ones before the PS4 launch.

Cute, but That's not true.

NoFunAllowed.jpg

Is that a MP online match ?
(don't think so, since ppl are complaining about mandatory online for sp. but then why pick sf3 !)
In that case, being kicked out of the match if your internet fails is unavoidable and certainly not MS's fault.

If it's SP, that gif is not accurate, since according to rumours, if your connection dies, the console will still let you play for 3 minutes while attempting to reconnect, after which the game will be put on hold.

 

[RoboPlato]

Cute, but That's not true.

NoFunAllowed.jpg

Is that a MP online match ?
(don't think so, since ppl are complaining about mandatory online for sp. but then why pick sf3 !)
In that case, being kicked out of the match if your internet fails is unavoidable and certainly not MS's fault.

If it's SP, that gif is not accurate, since according to rumours, if your connection dies, the console will still let you play for 3 minutes while attempting to reconnect, after which the game will be put on hold.

It could be a local match that had already lost the connection three minutes prior.

 

[SirMossyBloke]

It could be a local match that had already lost the connection three minutes prior.

Yup.

That gif was actually taken from a local match. During a tournament. Plus, as you implied, that 3 minutes could have been at any point.

My main concern is still having to implement every single game with a save anywhere function to combat this. If its a multiplatform game then surely the ps4 version would need to be save anywhere too so they remain the same game.

It just brings up too many problems.

 

[Razdek]

Why don't these journalists ask the devs more in depth questions regarding the games they're developing instead of trying to pry info of the next XBOX from them? They know it's coming so why can't they just ignore it and ask about the games and the PS4 and PC to get more details? It already seems like they're down on the unannounced console anyways so why are they looking so hard to find info about it? So they can say they were right and the next XBOX sucks?

 

[Bsigg12]

Yup.

That gif was actually taken from a local match. During a tournament. Plus, as you implied, that 3 minutes could have been at any point.

My main concern is still having to implement every single game with a save anywhere function to combat this. If its a multiplatform game then surely the ps4 version would need to be save anywhere too so they remain the same game.

It just brings up too many problems.

Pff, saving...


Didn't make it to a checkpoint? Fuck you! You unplugged your system from the internet dick!

Spoiler

Internet always required is not going to happen.

 

[Boogalogist]

OMFG, this gif is fucking hilarious. Resonates even more with me since I was into fighting games and know exactly where this is from.



p/s it's a classic old offline match.

 

[Sponge]

People are just NOW noticing Microsoft has bad management? Where were you all when they fired pretty much everyone that mattered from Rare?

I still remember my exact feelings the day Microsoft announced a restructure, I think it was something like-

 

[Gen X]

Remember back in 2010 when MS revealed the 360 Slim at E3 and then it practically went on sale right away from the time of announcement? Imagine that something similar will happen come this May. It would break the tradition of consoles being released just prior to Xmas.

 

[RealDeadOne]

For all the talk game journalists have about entitlement, it sure seems they're acting unrightfully entitled to Durango info...

Painting in broad strokes aside, Microsoft has its own plan and rumors about the system now aren't going to have much effect on the long term for their console.
Now if it turns out all the rumors are true, that could be bad for them, but this has nothing to do with how soon or late they announce it.

 

[eso76]

Yup.

Nope, since the game is hybernated after 3 minutes of no connection and will be reprised when the net is available again. The being kicked to dashboard and losing all progress is not going to happen.

Games will have something like a save anywhere function, both on ps4 and Durango, in that we already know games can be suspended anytime, anywhere and reprised later. Some speculate you can even switch between different games.

 

[Sheroking]

Nope, since the game is hybernated after 3 minutes of no connection and will be reprised when the net is available again. The being kicked to dashboard and losing all progress is not going to happen.

I'm sorry, but if your nit-picking that gif, you should know the context. That was probably the greatest moment in competitive gaming, a match held at EVO - a fighting game tournament that now has thousands of entrants over several games, tightly scheduled over three days.

"Hibernating" is not good enough. There's no good reason for it to need a connection for a local MP fight.

 

[Alx]

Remember back in 2010 when MS revealed the 360 Slim at E3 and then it practically went on sale right away from the time of announcement? Imagine that something similar will happen come this May. It would break the tradition of consoles being released just prior to Xmas.

Nah, not a chance. For a new product, they need at least to build an image, get everybody to know about the product, discuss the features, get excited by the games... it worked with the slim because everybody already knew about the 360, all they had to unveil was a new design and a new price.
The "mini 360" at $99 could see a surprise release, but not the Durango.

Yup.

That gif was actually taken from a local match. During a tournament.

I hope you also realize that the gif is edited, and the grand finale was intentionally replaced by a deconnexion message... thatsthejoke.jpg

Also fighting games shouldn't really encounter such dramatic situations, since a round is much less than 3 minutes (if that timeout value is to be considered). Just have the game issue a warning if there is no connexion at the beginning of a match, and suggest to wait until the "timer" is reset so even if you're disconnected again, you'll have all the time you need to finish it. It shouldn't happen frequently to begin with, and would only cause a few seconds of "reconnecting" at the beginning of a match.

 

[Shaneus]

Remember back in 2010 when MS revealed the 360 Slim at E3 and then it practically went on sale right away from the time of announcement? Imagine that something similar will happen come this May. It would break the tradition of consoles being released just prior to Xmas.

It'd also blow PS4 right out of the fucking water.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if that happened. Works for Apple, no reason why it couldn't work for MS as well.

If that's the case... PGR5 in a month!

 

[Takuya]

Also fighting games shouldn't really encounter such dramatic situations, since a round is much less than 3 minutes (if that timeout value is to be considered). Just have the game issue a warning if there is no connexion at the beginning of a match, and suggest to wait until the "timer" is reset so even if you're disconnected again, you'll have all the time you need to finish it. It shouldn't happen frequently to begin with, and would only cause a few seconds of "reconnecting" at the beginning of a match.

Users shouldn't have to even worry about it to begin with. Let's not start try to defend it now.

It'd also blow PS4 right out of the fucking water.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if that happened. Works for Apple, no reason why it couldn't work for MS as well.

If that's the case... PGR5 in a month!

Not going to happen, the Chinese manufacturing plants would have leaked information and pictures a long time ago. Same as has happened with almost all Apple products.

 

[travisbickle]

Rush an announcement and make a bad first impression or craft a good announcement and make a good first impression; yes rush it for the journalists so they can bad mouth it if it's not a good announcement.

There's no way MS can "craft" a good impression if the product is poor, not in today's "always online" world.

 

[2MF]

Well it seems "poisonous" to us, but we're a very vocal minority, let's be honest. How many Xbox 360's have been sold? 75 million? There's maybe 1% of those 75 million that are aware of the current rumors. And no matter what's been said up to this point, one official announcement would squash it. 6 months from now nobody will be basing their purchasing decision on squashed rumors.

We're also the minority that can make or break a console launch and hype. Internet Explorer was taken over by Firefox due to a small minority spreading the word...

No matter whether the always-online happens or not, the Xbox brand is getting damaged by these continuous rumours.

 

[TGO]

^^ this
People really don't realize the most damage to the PS3 was done by the internet + media.

I think everyone is overreacting, the console can't be as bad as rumours suggest & MS has probably got everything planned out.
But what I how learnt is that no matter what you do, no matter what you bring to the table
If the media+gamers are best friends with another company you better be bringing the pain otherwise they take it to you
Good as is not good enough, MS does really need to separate themselves from what Sony is offering
Because when they reveal and the gamers/press aren't blown away those articles will come flooding in by the bucket load, the negative stuff we are getting now will be nothing compared to what it'll be like after MS makes people wait over to let them down
Same can be said for Sony, they've got this platinum armour at the moment and need to make sure no kinks are found during now and launch
We dont know a lot about the PS4 we just got an idea
The full truth of it could paint a different picture a lot less appealing them what MS has on their canvas under the sheet.

 

[Satchel]

Yes Consumers, quick, bend to the evil corporations/MS will. They're all savvy business folk running international corporations and they know whats's good for us/me.

Just pointing out the double-standard.

Double standard???

Really?

So....I HAVE to buy the next Xbox?

 

[Alx]

^^ this
People really don't realize the most damage to the PS3 was done by the internet + media.

But the damage is done based on facts (or interpretation of facts), not rumors. The PS3 started to develop a bad image from the moment Sony announced its price, not before. The 360 started to get praised long after it was released.
Same goes for IE/Firefox. The balance changed through word-to-mouth, but word-to-mouth was mentioning real features of firefox (mostly plugins), not rumored ones.

 

[2MF]

But the damage is done based on facts (or interpretation of facts), not rumors. The PS3 started to develop a bad image from the moment Sony announced its price, not before. The 360 started to get praised long after it was released.
Same goes for IE/Firefox. The balance changed through word-to-mouth, but word-to-mouth was mentioning real features of firefox (mostly plugins), not rumored ones.

You're taking the IE/Firefox comparison much farther than I intended with my comment. My main point there was to contradict the ones who say that the "Internet's" opinion / rumors is irrelevant because we're a minority (the ones who regularly comment on gaming forums and gaming news websites).

It may be a minority indeed, but it's an important minority because less knowledgeable gamers rely on this community for guidance and hype. I'm not saying that NeoGAF and the other gaming forums alone will destroy the Xbox business with the anti-hype, but it's also nowhere near as irrelevant as the "we're just 1% of gamers" comments make it seem.

 

[Phonomezer]

I am admittedly mystified at people getting emotional over what has yet to be confirmed, partial, likely incomplete or possibly inaccurate information. My thought on the whole "always online" business is that it will be always online or 'live aware' in the same manner the 360 is, but unlikely totally dependent on such a connection to function--live goes down periodically for maintenance, for example. It still sounds like we are getting less than half the story, but people are frothing at the mouth to jump at whatever they hear for lack of solid info.

A lot of people would rather believe the unconfirmed worst rather than exercise a little restraint until anything concrete about the next Xbox is actually said.

 

[2MF]

I am admittedly mystified at people getting emotional over what has yet to be confirmed, partial, likely incomplete or possibly inaccurate information. My thought on the whole "always online" business is that it will be always online or 'live aware' in the same manner the 360 is, but unlikely totally dependent on such a connection to function--live goes down periodically for maintenance, for example. It still sounds like we are getting less than half the story, but people are frothing at the mouth to jump at whatever they hear for lack of solid info.

True, the extent of the online thing is nowhere near clarified.

I think many people are unsure what to believe, but are worried and vocal about it because of all the recent always-online disasters, particularly Diablo 3 and Simcity.

 

[SpaceHobo]

You're taking the IE/Firefox comparison much farther than I intended with my comment. My main point there was to contradict the ones who say that the "Internet's" opinion / rumors is irrelevant because we're a minority (the ones who regularly comment on gaming forums and gaming news websites).

It may be a minority indeed, but it's an important minority because less knowledgeable gamers rely on this community for guidance and hype. I'm not saying that NeoGAF and the other gaming forums alone will destroy the Xbox business with the anti-hype, but it's also nowhere near as irrelevant as the "we're just 1% of gamers" comments make it seem.

I'm sure you and others here genuinely believe that , but it's nonsense.

The vocal minority hated Wii and claimed DOA , said 360 was Xbox 1.5 and DOA and then turned on Sony and claimed PS3 was doomed to failure.

GAF likes the sound of its own voice , but it's terribad at predicting the future and it's laughable that its being painted as some kinda taste maker.

 

[TGO]

But the damage is done based on facts (or interpretation of facts), not rumors. The PS3 started to develop a bad image from the moment Sony announced its price, not before. The 360 started to get praised long after it was released.

Sony didn't help themselves, but there was hate when the PS3 had 2 HDMi's and was nothing but a empty case witha boomerang controller.
Although people was right about CG trailers the insults and hate was there day one and the price was the last joke
From day one people loved Microsoft and insulting Sony left right and center and Sony just made it worse,

 

[Reiko]

I am admittedly mystified at people getting emotional over what has yet to be confirmed, partial, likely incomplete or possibly inaccurate information. My thought on the whole "always online" business is that it will be always online or 'live aware' in the same manner the 360 is, but unlikely totally dependent on such a connection to function--live goes down periodically for maintenance, for example. It still sounds like we are getting less than half the story, but people are frothing at the mouth to jump at whatever they hear for lack of solid info.

The Xbox 360 actually used always on, always connected in the early rumors.

I hope that is the case. Because those sources telling Kotaku only added more salt to the wound.

 

[scytheavatar]

Think the problem is ATM I am not seeing anything Microsoft can do to spin the new XBOX in a positive manner. "Always online, no used games" is going to be near impossible to sell to consumers, but worse still all the rumors point the new XBOX as being marginally weaker than the PS4 spec wise, yet not being cheap at all. Those thinking all the doubts of the new XBOX will be disspelled by its unveiling need to be reminded of how Microsoft promised to answer the rise of mobiles and tablets with Windows 8, and how that turned out.

 

[2MF]

I'm sure you and others here genuinely believe that , but it's nonsense.

The vocal minority hated Wii and claimed DOA , said 360 was Xbox 1.5 and DOA and then turned on Sony and claimed PS3 was doomed to failure.

GAF likes the sound of its own voice , but it's terribad at predicting the future and it's laughable that its being painted as some kinda taste maker.

You're making false equivalences there. Not all of GAF hated the Wii (not even close), nearly all of GAF plus the rest of the Internet is against the always-online (as rumored). The hate on the PS3 was mostly focused on the price and launch, not the console as a whole.

Again, I'm not saying that the Internet alone makes or breaks a product, but this much anti-hype can certainly hurt the Xbox.

 

[TUROK]

Haha, who gives a fuck about the journalists? Poor fucking gaming journalists who have nothing concrete to write about the new Xbox. Want to complain about entitlement?! Boom, here it is.

 

[eso76]

I'm sorry, but if your nit-picking that gif, you should know the context. That was probably the greatest moment in competitive gaming, a match held at EVO - a fighting game tournament that now has thousands of entrants over several games, tightly scheduled over three days.

"Hibernating" is not good enough. There's no good reason for it to need a connection for a local MP fight.

Ok, i understand that and i said that was a 'nofunallowed' comment nitpicking the .gif.

Nonetheless, it seems it was worth pointing out that you don't just get kicked back to the dashboard and lose all progress, since few people paid attention to that rumor.

There's more.
What are the chances your connection goes missing for more than 3 minutes, realistically ?
For my experience, it's probably the same as electricity going out.

While i hate the idea and i agree there's no need for a connection in a local MP game (exept using the OS streaming/broadcasting to the rumored xbox live 'twitch tv-like' channel) i don't think it's going to be an issue in real life.

 

[Shaneus]

We're also the minority that can make or break a console launch and hype. Internet Explorer was taken over by Firefox due to a small minority spreading the word...

No matter whether the always-online happens or not, the Xbox brand is getting damaged by these continuous rumours.

But everyone knows that these rumours are rumours and should they turn out not likely to be true, how many people are going to say "But guys, that rumour... remember that? Yeah, we totally shouldn't buy the Durango because of that thing that wasn't true".

The only group of people that are getting jaded by this talk are the gaming media who have nothing better to write about, and people just looking for an excuse to not buy Microsoft's console.

 

[Chaos Theory]

MS let go all the good Xbox managments when the xbox 360 was released. J allard and the rest.

now its honestly running by some monkeys.

they are getting bad press and they think its cool to keep calm and do nothing about it. i really wonder what kind of retards work there.

you do not have to show your system to deny some stupid rumors like always online / no used games etc.

but it seems its all true now :/

 

[2MF]

But everyone knows that these rumours are rumours and should they turn out not likely to be true, how many people are going to say "But guys, that rumour... remember that? Yeah, we totally shouldn't buy the Durango because of that thing that wasn't true".

The only group of people that are getting jaded by this talk are the gaming media who have nothing better to write about, and people just looking for an excuse to not buy Microsoft's console.

It may seem ridiculous to you, but a pernicious and persistent negative rumor that is allowed to fester can make noticeable damage to a brand. Right now people are looking forward to the Xbox announcement, but they're doing so with a negative frame of mind. People who don't like the rumors are either not spreading the word, or spreading negative sentiment. I hardly believe that's what MS marketers want. And it's not just GAF, it's all the gaming websites reporting on it, plus several non-gaming sites.

Some believe believe "any publicity is good publicity" but I think that's wrong.

 

[strata8]

MS let go all the good Xbox managments when the xbox 360 was released. J allard and the rest.

now its honestly running by some monkeys.

they are getting bad press and they think its cool to keep calm and do nothing about it. i really wonder what kind of retards work there.

you do not have to show your system to deny some stupid rumors like always online / no used games etc.

but it seems its all true now :/

How are they going to deny rumours about a console that doesn't exist?

 

[Shaneus]

It may seem ridiculous to you, but a pernicious and persistent negative rumor that is allowed to fester can make noticeable damage to a brand. Right now people are looking forward to the Xbox announcement, but they're doing so with a negative frame of mind. People who don't like the rumors are either not spreading the word, or spreading negative sentiment. I hardly believe that's what MS marketers want. And it's not just GAF, it's all the gaming websites reporting on it, plus several non-gaming sites.

Some believe believe "any publicity is good publicity" but I think that's wrong.

But I'm struggling to see how the rumour of "zomg always online" will affect anything about a console once it's features have been released. What's going through the mind of people who still think ill of a console once a rumour has been quashed?

That's a serious question... because I honestly have no idea why people will still think badly of something when a rumour is proven to be untrue and the company it was directed towards did nothing to fan that particular flame. The only rumours that I can see having any affect on people are those that will be true.

 

[Reiko]

How are they going to deny rumours about a console that doesn't exist?

Sony seemed to have no problem with it. Note: "PS4" wasn't even officially announced at the time. No one knew the official name.

 

[dose]

Also fighting games shouldn't really encounter such dramatic situations, since a round is much less than 3 minutes (if that timeout value is to be considered). Just have the game issue a warning if there is no connexion at the beginning of a match, and suggest to wait until the "timer" is reset so even if you're disconnected again, you'll have all the time you need to finish it. It shouldn't happen frequently to begin with, and would only cause a few seconds of "reconnecting" at the beginning of a match.

Sorry, but that is an absolutely shitty workaround. Why should players have to 'wait around' before a round until the connection to MSs servers is up again? Laughable.

 

[2MF]

But I'm struggling to see how the rumour of "zomg always online" will affect anything about a console once it's features have been released. What's going through the mind of people who still think ill of a console once a rumour has been quashed?

That's a serious question... because I honestly have no idea why people will still think badly of something when a rumour is proven to be untrue and the company it was directed towards did nothing to fan that particular flame. The only rumours that I can see having any affect on people are those that will be true.

It's already affecting "something" - people are seeing MS and Xbox in a negative light because of these rumors that not only don't go away, but are also being fanned by Microsoft employees and fans (like Paul Thurrott). Whether the rumors are true or not, people are associating this negativity with the Xbox brand.

But let's simplify things here - your argument amounts to "bad publicity is irrelevant if proven untrue". I disagree with that.

 

[strata8]

Sony seemed to have no problem with it. Note: "PS4" wasn't even officially announced at the time. No one knew the official name.

That's hardly debunking a rumour. Did Sony respond to the 'no used games' rumour before the console was announced? Or, to add to that, any other circulated rumour about the PS4?

 

[SenjutsuSage]

For all the talk game journalists have about entitlement, it sure seems they're acting unrightfully entitled to Durango info...

Painting in broad strokes aside, Microsoft has its own plan and rumors about the system now aren't going to have much effect on the long term for their console.
Now if it turns out all the rumors are true, that could be bad for them, but this has nothing to do with how soon or late they announce it.

I tend to agree. They really do talk like Microsoft is somehow becoming an inconvenience to them and their plans, as if Microsoft should do what they want them to do when they want them to do it. Microsoft will announce when they feel like it's most to their advantage to do so, and not a moment sooner.

The rumors simply being true won't be enough to harm the next Xbox, I feel. It will come down to how Microsoft presents what they are doing with the next xbox, and so long as that presentation is impressive and gets people excited, it won't matter if it's always online, which I honestly wouldn't be affected by since my connection is both pretty reliable as it is and I keep my devices connected at all times, but I just don't think that's what they will end up doing.

 

[Maxrunner]

I assume these journalists have a thing or two for the xbox brand, and can't stand the good press Sony is getting, perhaps?

 

[Reiko]

That's hardly debunking a rumour. Did Sony respond to the 'no used games' rumour before the console was announced? Or, to add to that, any other circulated rumour about the PS4?

Well it was a rumor made up on the spot to get a reaction from Sony. He didn't lie now did he?

No. Of course they didn't.

Microsoft could have said...

"We would never consider making a internet only device in our future products, it would alienate too many potential customers."

 

[Linkified]

Sony seemed to have no problem with it. Note: "PS4" wasn't even officially announced at the time. No one knew the official name.

Actually by saying "Let him dream" could refer to at the time WiiU power/PS4 in general it is not confirming/denying anything though.

It is standard for companies to not comment on rumors and speculation ... not because it is going to happen ... but because they don't want to set the precedent for MS for talking about unannounced products/services.

 

[Shaneus]

It's already affecting "something" - people are seeing MS and Xbox in a negative light because of these rumors that not only don't go away, but are also being fanned by Microsoft employees and fans (like Paul Thurrott). Whether the rumors are true or not, people are associating this negativity with the Xbox brand.

But let's simplify things here - your argument amounts to "bad publicity is irrelevant if proven untrue". I disagree with that.

But how/why is it affecting it? There's been literally no information about the console released at all, so how can a rumour that is 100% baseless (for the time being) allow people to think badly about something? Literally no-one in the know has said anything about it... no developers, at least (however if there's statements to the contrary, I'd be interested in seeing them, for sure).

I'm just trying to get into the head of someone who is going to use this speculation as a negative when deciding which console to buy (assuming they come out at a similar time). If such (mis)information is enough to sway someone from buying one console to another (or none at all), then maybe they weren't going to be a customer regardless.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

I wouldn't be surprised if a site or two run a positive "source" article in the next few days

"Our source says the new Xbox is awesome"

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Microsoft could have said...

"We would never consider making a internet only device in our future products, it would alienate too many potential customers."

Seeing how we're all inevitably heading toward an always-online future - how else would all the cloud streaming work? - that would've been a rather obvious lie.

I haven't really been following the discussion, neither do I have any desire to get seriously involved in it, but this thing caught my eye so I just thought I'd chime in.