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[GhostRidah]

...wow

its clearly the sportscenter sound effect

how are you a human and dont know that sound?

Like I said I knew it years ago, I haven't watched sportscenter in over 14 years lol

 

[CPS2]

What exactly was that MIT lecture thing? It looked like 2 people giving a bunch of random anecdotes to convince an audience that the FGC is low class, poor, racist, mysoginistic... but very "multicultural" (WINK WINK)...

Like were they trying to show that they researched this group and had something to say about them based on research? The dude said he doesn't play fighters because he doesn't have the reflexes, which I think doesn't make any sense and is like saying you don't have the reflexes to play piano. Maybe this was like... their big presentation on why they would never try to succeed at fighting games because who wants to be around these animals? Like a random message board scrub rant converted into an MIT lecture? I only managed to watch like 5 minutes of it before I felt my IQ plummeting.

 

[casperOne]

Great choice on the thread title and the piece in the OT Enzo.

And holy, Floe really became the Boshy.

For posterity:

http://www.twitch.tv/eg_floe/b/491228213?t=1h34m35s

 

[toddhunter]

That is one long journey. Congratulations Floe.

 

[UltraDavid]

UltraDavid didn't get back to me in time. TBH I had quite a busy weekend so I didn't get around to scrambling for one either.

doh, can i still do this? i haven't really been around lately, sorry

 

[vocab]

Floe with the sonic exploit. He did it.

Blazblue is too hard. Too many things to remember, and combos for each state is making my head hurt. I pretty much will never get better because its too much work. And forget learning other characters.

 

[Stabby McSter]

That is one long journey. Congratulations Floe.

that's a great reaction

 

[Jazz-ism]

Floe with the sonic exploit. He did it.

Blazblue is too hard. Too many things to remember, and combos for each state is making my head hurt. I pretty much will never get better because its too much work. And forget learning other characters.

lmfao

"fighting games are too hard"

 

[vocab]

lmfao

"fighting games are too hard"

No just arcsys games.

 

[Jazz-ism]

No just arcsys games.

i jab but i know how you feel. you just have to put in a lot of time before your play in arcsys titles really comes together. all the things you mention are part of the long term grind.

upping your mobility and learning every characters gatlings is a drag

 

[MarkMan]

From the other thread....

Hope everyone on FGC GAF had a great Christmas/holiday.

I celebrated late (yesterday) with the family and watched a home video from 1988 (25 years ago) when we celebrated Christmas. It was eerie and amazing at the same time. Same house, same family, but now a lot of my immediate/extended family have passed away over the course of 25 years.

It was bittersweet and definitely brought us together. Life is short, please live well guys.

I'm old. So as resident old guy, I want to wish you guys well and encourage you to live the life you want (but please remember your family and friends).

Much love. <3

 

[Ragingnight]

No just arcsys games.

naw persona is easy.

 

[Karsticles]

Aight, Karsticles:


On you:

- Is there a reason why you often wouldn't Quick Rise/ Tech?

I forget to how to do it/that it exists, lol. I don't play Street Fighter often. I finally remembered to do it against Kadey today, but then I forgot how...

I also don't know when I can tech, which makes matters worse.

- You jump way too much in the mid range.
- Related note: pay close attention to your tendencies. Every time you stuffed one of my buttons on the ground with cr. MK - you jumped at me every time. You don't have sufficient frame advantage to do this. I anti-aired you every time in that reoccurring circumstance.

I don't really have tendencies like that. I have things I test out many, many times so I can be confident about what to do in a situation. That's a huge part of how I learn and become confident. I was trying to see if I could beat your anti-air with a lot of different moves and timings. We traded a lot, and I was seeing if I could guarantee the trade, because then that's not a bad thing to make happen since C. Viper scares me more than any other character in this game.

- If you're playing the long set with someone - commit to not doing things like Wakeup Ultra during Oki. At least, not very often. You learn little about my Oki mixups if you're using the blanket option of a high damage attack with invincible startup.

This is more testing stuff. My matches against you first the first time I've ever used the kick fireball ultra on Oki, and I used that knowledge to win a few matches later against others. Now, as for learning your Oki options, I think we both know that I spent enough time on the ground that I had opportunities to learn them outside of those ultra attempts! ;-)

A lot of it is throwing things out there to see what you can do. Like if someone ultras me from anywhere, there is a 100% chance I will ultra back just to see what happens.

- Study the art of teching throws.

- Study the art of beating throw tech.

What do you mean by beating throw tech? Yeah, I am not good at teching throws. Street Fighter messes me up even more since all of the throw ranges differ per character. Kadey grabbed me a few times today with Zangief and I was just boggled - I didn't even know I should be looking out for a grab at the range she was at!

On Oni: I'm curious as to your motivation for playing Oni, specifically. I'm not sure he's the right character for you. You seem to desire playing a calculated zoning game, but I believe Oni excels at rushdown, with a need to take risks for big damage once he's in - similar to Viper. Viper has to take more risks in the neutral game, though, since she doesn't have the luxury of the kind of buttons Oni has.

I play him because he looks cool. I doubt there are any characters in this game for me. The entire cast is pretty boring and uninteresting. Oni at least has style. I like the following things in characters:
-Mobility
-Large normals
-Projectiles
-A safe, "certain" plan
-Mindgames

So, Oni has some of this stuff. He is somewhat enjoyable for me. I haven't found a character I really like, though. I started out with Guile, and a combination of Flash Kick not fixing its directionality fast enough vs. crossups (I don't say autocorrect because I am actually waiting to make the input) and boring fireball wars moved me away from him. I also hate charge characters. I only played Guile because I was learning Parasoul in Skullgirls as my second character, and wanted to main a charge character to help my Skullgirls play.

His FBs don't reach across screen, have relatively large recovery, and are mostly negative on bock, with the exception of his EX variations. His FB game is similar to Evil Ryu, where they shine mostly at footsie range and can confirm into FADC combos.

What I do like about Oni's fireball game is that it beats other fireball games. People have to come to Oni, and I appreciate not having stalemate situations. The electric fireball plows through pretty much everything, plus he has the demon dash attack that goes through projectiles if I want to counter them. I know he's not a keepaway character, but it's how I play, so that's what he has to become for me.

Oni's not as risky as Viper in terms of getting in, because he has buttons like f. forward, f. Fierce, cr. MK etc. etc. He can play footsies and has an above average ground game typical of Shotos. Maybe once you become more familiar with the game and match ups, that will change how you approach the character. For now, your dedication to staying on the opposite side of the screen with FBs isn't ideal, imo.

f.forward? He does have a ground game, I'm just not used to his buttons. This is like...my 6th occassion playing him, and there's usually a week or two in between each play. He's a relatively complex character in terms of everything you have to learn. Guile was a lot easier to get a feel for.

- Learn better combos. Get your b. strong, b. fierce target combo variations down.

Combos are always the last thing I learn on a character. It's just not my style to bother with those until I am comfortable with the character's neutral game. b.MP, b.HP whiffs as a blockstring against crouching characters, so I only use it when punishing something.

b. strong, b. fierce, xx LK Rakan Dantojin, FADC, b. strong, b. fierce, rh. Tatsu is a solid foundation for a punish combo with meter. Omit the 2nd half when the meter isn't present. Once you get that down, you can adjust it for a variety of circumstances with different options afterwards. Corner = EX Tatsu ender > DP or F. Roundhouse > Wakeup/corner pressure. Midscreen ender = LK Sekisei Jiraiken for prime wakeup position with your opponent right at your feet (think DP/throw bait for the average player). EX Rakan Dantojin > Ultra/other followups is a nice reset shenanigan for now, since most are still unfamiliar with Oni. This target combo can also be confirmed into from a low - cr. lk, st. lp > Target Combo.

Believe it or not, I know all of this! lol I just don't have it down yet. I can't even FADC consistently yet. I started FADCing more today, though. I used it for pressure maybe 5-6 times against Kadey within a 30 match set, which is a big step or me since my previous tendency was to never do it at all.

- After Neutral Throw, mk Rakan Dantojin puts Oni in prime position for safe jump/ ambiguous crossup setups. You don't have to waste energy executing dashes.

Thanks for this. I see Chris Hu do it, but I wasn't sure which strength he was doing.

- Remember you have a cross up. You never used it. Ambiguous j. MK on wakeup is much more consistent that trying to have me guess between Throw/No Throw!

This I know is not true. j.MK is my go-to wakeup mixup with Oni. I do fuck the spacing up on j.MK a lot. I've noticed that Oni's j.MK is a rather shitty cross-up move compared to what other characters get. The other shotos seem to have better hitboxes on theirs. I hate how hitboxes are frequently smaller than the actual limb being thrown out in this game. It pisses me off. I would rather have huge ass Marvel hitboxes than that. Make my move function how it looks damn it!

- Remember that because this version of Oni can't FADC his DP > Oni gets jacked with meter at the end of the first round or second round. This opens up his EX burn tremendously, and makes him very interesting relative to the other Shotos.

Until the patch....!

On Oni vs. Viper:

- You don't want to charge a Fireball vs. Viper. I can get over them easily, in a variety of ways that lead to big damage and stun on Oni, and you can't cancel the charge.

Well, from full screen it frequently led to good things. At the very least, safe meter gain. Like I said though, C. Viper is like a whirl of chaos to me. Terrifying.

- Obviously, learn to block crossup Burn Kick. If you can't block the CU, Viper never has to vary her setups, and can run a mindless train on you. A successfully blocked CU BK, is negative on block, unless meaty. It also has the psychological benefit of causing a Dear in the Headlights effect, since 95% of players still don't know how to block the move well despite the character being around since Vanilla (think of Powershielding a laser from Falco in Melee). Mind that, because it's a great way to regain momentum.

Didn't you notice that about halfway through our matches I went from 0% of these blocked on oki to ~50%? Toward the end I was blocking them frequently. It never felt like it was negative on block, though. I couldn't do shit to punish you, even getting thrown sometimes before I could throw a goddamn light out. It's like your mixups are more ambiguous than mine and they're safer...

Some tips on blocking CU BK: If you see flashing lights in a block string: be ready to block a CU BK. If she's whiffing normals close to your corpse on oki like st. lk, or simply walking into it - get ready to block CU BK (you were getting better at blocking it towards the end for sure). But don't be so stressed about the CU that you forget about her other, more fundamental options like throw/CH setup.

I will try to remember this.

Most characters can get under BK with a low profile crouching move. For Shotos this is cr. mk. This helps a lot and, again, can cause that Dear in the Headlights effect I mentioned earlier. Viper's counter to this will be a non-crossup BK that will descend on the attack. Be ready for that adjustment next time we play.

Yeah, a few times I hit you out with c.MP. Like I said, I experiment a lot. I will try c.MK more often.

- Regular Seismo > EX Seismo is a true block string. You cannot jump out of this. Be mindful of blocking a Seismo when Viper has meter.

That's all I got for now. If you want I can edit more in assuming it comes to me.

I learned that in one of our late matches! Haha, I had no idea. I also did not know that Seismo hits low. What the fuck is that? My demon palm, which comes from the goddamn sky onto someone's head, can't hit high, but that hits low? Capcom! It took me a long time to start blocking low when I saw the Seismo animation going. I still flubbed it up a lot.

Thanks for the great analysis and write-up. I would love to hear your opinion on who you think I should be playing. I don't normally play um..."grounded" fighters, I guess I would say. I prefer to fly and tridash. The last Street Fighter I played was SFII before this one. I rented SFIV once, played it for an hour, and turned it off after I beat my first ever opponent online by spamming Tiger Shots. I had expected that in so many generations, Street Fighter would have been elevated to Marvel levels of interesting gameplay. Alas, it is not so...

 

[Dahbomb]

If you mean tech as in getting up fast, it works like soft knockdown in Marvel 3 you just have to know which moves hard knockdown. Generally you want to quick rise at any given opportunity.

If by tech you mean breaking throws that too works like Marvel 3. You have to anticipate the throw, can't really react to it. Best way to get better at teching is to start throwing more yourself.

Also Oni's mobility is not that great. His air dash is gimmicky. If you want a complete character with good zoning, good normals and good mobility then Akuma is your character for sure. Just find a bad ass costume for him. Akuma has air fireballs, he has the same charge fireball, Raging Demons, Demon flip follow ups, teleport, great normals, walk speed and a good ground zoning game with good fireballs on top of FADC-able SRK. It's either that or Seth.

F.forward = forward + MK in SF lingo. Jab is LP, Strong is MP, Fierce is HP, Short is LK and Roundhouse is HK.

 

[irfaanator]

I cannot convey my emotions into a post appropriately for overlord Shouta would ban me faster than his brother runs away from the Vietnamese Mafia.

haha

 

[Karsticles]

If you mean tech as in getting up fast, it works like soft knockdown in Marvel 3 you just have to know which moves hard knockdown. Generally you want to quick rise at any given opportunity.

If by tech you mean breaking throws that too works like Marvel 3. You have to anticipate the throw, can't really react to it. Best way to get better at teching is to start throwing more yourself.

Also Oni's mobility is not that great. His air dash is gimmicky. If you want a complete character with good zoning, good normals and good mobility then Akuma is your character for sure. Just find a bad ass costume for him. Akuma has air fireballs, he has the same charge fireball, Raging Demons, Demon flip follow ups, teleport, great normals, walk speed and a good ground zoning game with good fireballs on top of FADC-able SRK. It's either that or Seth.

F.forward = forward + MK in SF lingo. Jab is LP, Strong is MP, Fierce is HP, Short is LK and Roundhouse is HK.

I mean more like, how do I make a tech happen on knockdown? What am I pushing, and when can I tech?

I know what stuff like LP means, but how does F.forward mean MK?

Akuma is a good character, no doubt. He was my first character. Before Guile, when I was learning what the buttons at locals.

 

[Dahbomb]

Forward is MK so f. Forward is forward + MK. The correct terminology is supposed to be towards Forward (or close Forward, crouch Forward or away Forwards) because forward Forward is confusing as fuck. This is why the old SF lingo needs to die in a fire.

You just press two buttons to quick stand/tech. You have to do it early not late. You can do it in a situation where its not a hard knockdown like say getting hit by a fireball while in the air. Most sweeps and throws you can't quick rise afterwards.

Funniest thing happened today when I was playing against Q. I don't know jack shit about fighting Rose and I just kept throwing fireballs while Rose kept absorbing. I was like "cool I will take the meter gain"... turns out I was looking at the wrong meter! He was full meter like 10 seconds into the match! That's the last time I am throwing fireballs against Rose.

 

[call_kotaku]

naw persona is easy.

I literally only did 2 variations of Narukami sweep>5D oki without any idea of how it worked or how the opponent would get out of it for 3 weeks before I dropped the game for TTT2 when that came out. In neutral I had no idea what to do so I just did yolo electric slides from full screen, and "hit confirmed" that into super. Got a 40% winrate I think.

I played tekken for 2 months non-stop, studied combos and practiced backdashing, and I never broke 35%.

Persona is easy, dawg.

Spoiler

I'm awful at games

 

[Horseress]

That is one long journey. Congratulations Floe.

I CAN'T BELIEVE! I went to sleep 30 min before he became the boshy! Watching the archives now, congratulations Floe!

I hope BasedMonster recorded the chat when he became the boshy

 

[Anth0ny]

That is one long journey. Congratulations Floe.

Awesome reaction lol

 

[alstein]

No just arcsys games.

The exception is Persona- which is probably why it's the one Arcsys game I can stand.

 

[Mokubba]

Really sad to hear about Remix.

I loved the set he had with Chris G, with Yipes and Jago commentating.

Not a great start to the morning.

 

[toddhunter]

Awesome reaction lol

I wonder what he is thinking about tonight. Two years it took to do that.

Bittersweet?

 

["God's Beard!"]

Karst will keep convincing himself that he doesn't want to play Dhalsim until he gives up SF4 altogether.

All the things he likes are in that character. It's just a lot to learn before those things become apparent and he's gonna get steamrolled for a while while he's learning the basic systems.

 

[alstein]

What exactly was that MIT lecture thing? It looked like 2 people giving a bunch of random anecdotes to convince an audience that the FGC is low class, poor, racist, mysoginistic... but very "multicultural" (WINK WINK)...

Like were they trying to show that they researched this group and had something to say about them based on research? The dude said he doesn't play fighters because he doesn't have the reflexes, which I think doesn't make any sense and is like saying you don't have the reflexes to play piano. Maybe this was like... their big presentation on why they would never try to succeed at fighting games because who wants to be around these animals? Like a random message board scrub rant converted into an MIT lecture? I only managed to watch like 5 minutes of it before I felt my IQ plummeting.

I tried talking to those two constructively (to be fair, many in the FGC just gave them shit on reaction)- I got the impression they weren't willing to listen, at least initially. They had their belief that the FGC was a cesspool (to be fair, there are legit criticisms, but it isn't a cesspool).

I gave those two the benefit of the doubt
Their comment to why it was so dumbed down was that it was a 101-lvl lecture. To me that's not an excuse.

Edited a bit due to more interaction- I think they mean well, but their understanding of things isn't as strong as they think it is, though I think it's wrong to just troll them out because I think that's the wrong impression.

 

[Jawmuncher]

I didn't want to make a thread and to me it seems Fighting Games Weekly would be the best place to ask.

I have a Street Fighter 4 Tournament Arcade Stick. The original one that came out for 150 with the original SF4 release. I grabbed it for 20 at a Pawn Shop ages ago and added artwork to the top of it as well as changing the ball to a bat top. Some of you might remember it back from the post you arcade stick thread. Was nothing special but it had kermit the frog on it. Aside from all that I was wondering is there any trustworthy places I can send it into to get fixed/worked on? I would do it myself but at this point I just don't want to mes with the damn thing. Especially since the board in it needs to be swapped out. I forget the name but it's the controller board. I heard I can fix it myself by replacing it with any board from any 360 controller but like I said I don't want to bother. Not to mention I bought the thing for so cheap that having someone else work on it would be fine by me. Since it would probably just end up coming out to a regular price of a arcade stick anyway.

TLR - Where can I send my Arcade Stick to get fixed/expanded upon?

 

[kick51]

a review on that mit fighting game thing

Spoiler

50 Shades of Grey. The Adventures of Pluto Nash. Ferngully.

The greatest stories ever told now have new company with the release of this amazing publication. Congratulations to Todd Harper, whose works now join an extraordinary league of media.

Though not as lengthy as the time Jane Goodall worked with the chimpanzees, Todd Harper was able to observe the natives of the FGC in their natural habitat. For an entire night, rare species like Africanus Americanus, Latino Americanus, and even Asian Americanus were seen playing fighting games in peace. Todd then spent 1 hour trying to understand their language, and was confused when he was called "free" for wiggling his "fightstick" and "mashing" buttons during blockstun in "Aquapizza," the flagship title of the fighting game community. He even attempted to communicate with them using proper English before going home and reading various kotaku publications instead. In addition to his grueling firsthand experience, he used approximately 31 minutes of difficult research using the Google search engine.

Todd's deep understanding of the American arcade culture's metamorphosis into the modern fighting game community is truly remarkable. He presents a wealth of resources in an easy to understand format for the reader. His breakdown of twitch.tv chats are incredibly insightful, and help illustrate the picture of the common FGC native.

The culture of Digital Fighting Games: Performance and Practice is an amazing piece that helps civilized people in the eSports community understand the sexist, misogynistic, and barbaric ways of the Fighting Game community. This work shows that despite their long history of grassroots competition, various goodwill projects, and rich, diverse ethnic makeup, the FGC is a flawed, violent machine that needs to be tamed by the eSports legions. The team behind this publication will go down in history and will never be forgotten.

Kappa~

I didn't even know MIT had an anthropology or sociology department!

 

["God's Beard!"]

Karst watch these

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqPsAQ_EHng

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l21Q2WK_8U

Two very different and exciting styles of Dhalsim. First illustrates his gameplan and the second his mobility very well. The second also has a great example of punishing a throw tech at the end.

Funniest thing happened today when I was playing against Q. I don't know jack shit about fighting Rose and I just kept throwing fireballs while Rose kept absorbing. I was like "cool I will take the meter gain"... turns out I was looking at the wrong meter! He was full meter like 10 seconds into the match! That's the last time I am throwing fireballs against Rose.

Lucky for you, that matchup has happened once or twice before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVOfWSrjGQA

Also, nobody says forward forward, they say towards medium kick.

 

[kirblar]

Surprised that I really like playing Sagat. Having two DPs is a lot of fun.

 

[kick51]

i said it in the other thread-- turbo = fraudulent boshy

Would you guys praise a CVS2 tournament winner who used EO mode? If not, you must withdraw your props

 

[vocab]

i said it in the other thread-- turbo = fraudulent boshy

Would you guys praise a CVS2 tournament winner who used EO mode? If not, you must withdraw your props

Eo mode blanka sounds terrifying. However, Eo means the version with no roll canceling. Hmm.

 

[call_kotaku]

i said it in the other thread-- turbo = fraudulent boshy

Would you guys praise a CVS2 tournament winner who used EO mode? If not, you must withdraw your props

Floe isn't a marvel player, he can't mash constantly for 5 hours a night for 3 nights

It doesn't actually improve his play (that much is completely evident), it just improves his endurance and our "entertainment".

 

[Horseress]

Damn, we have "I wanna be the boshy" die hard fans now?!

Solgryn himself confirmed that Floe is the boshy, let the man win something for god's sake

 

[sixteen-bit]

RIP Remix

 

[SloaneRisette]

I still literally can't believe it's been two years since Floe started that.

 

[Horseress]

I still literally can't believe it's been two years since Floe started that.

I think it has been two years since he started playing "I wanna be the guy", he started boshy later. Not that later tho

 

[DryEyeRelief]

I didn't want to make a thread and to me it seems Fighting Games Weekly would be the best place to ask.

I have a Street Fighter 4 Tournament Arcade Stick. The original one that came out for 150 with the original SF4 release. I grabbed it for 20 at a Pawn Shop ages ago and added artwork to the top of it as well as changing the ball to a bat top. Some of you might remember it back from the post you arcade stick thread. Was nothing special but it had kermit the frog on it. Aside from all that I was wondering is there any trustworthy places I can send it into to get fixed/worked on? I would do it myself but at this point I just don't want to mes with the damn thing. Especially since the board in it needs to be swapped out. I forget the name but it's the controller board. I heard I can fix it myself by replacing it with any board from any 360 controller but like I said I don't want to bother. Not to mention I bought the thing for so cheap that having someone else work on it would be fine by me. Since it would probably just end up coming out to a regular price of a arcade stick anyway.

TLR - Where can I send my Arcade Stick to get fixed/expanded upon?

http://www.marvelouscustoms.com/

From the other thread....

Hope everyone on FGC GAF had a great Christmas/holiday.

I celebrated late (yesterday) with the family and watched a home video from 1988 (25 years ago) when we celebrated Christmas. It was eerie and amazing at the same time. Same house, same family, but now a lot of my immediate/extended family have passed away over the course of 25 years.

It was bittersweet and definitely brought us together. Life is short, please live well guys.

I'm old. So as resident old guy, I want to wish you guys well and encourage you to live the life you want (but please remember your family and friends).

Much love. <3

Thanks. Take care Markman.

 

[djHuoshen]

I didn't want to make a thread and to me it seems Fighting Games Weekly would be the best place to ask.

I have a Street Fighter 4 Tournament Arcade Stick. The original one that came out for 150 with the original SF4 release. I grabbed it for 20 at a Pawn Shop ages ago and added artwork to the top of it as well as changing the ball to a bat top. Some of you might remember it back from the post you arcade stick thread. Was nothing special but it had kermit the frog on it. Aside from all that I was wondering is there any trustworthy places I can send it into to get fixed/worked on? I would do it myself but at this point I just don't want to mes with the damn thing. Especially since the board in it needs to be swapped out. I forget the name but it's the controller board. I heard I can fix it myself by replacing it with any board from any 360 controller but like I said I don't want to bother. Not to mention I bought the thing for so cheap that having someone else work on it would be fine by me. Since it would probably just end up coming out to a regular price of a arcade stick anyway.

TLR - Where can I send my Arcade Stick to get fixed/expanded upon?

Depends on where you're from. If you're on the EC in the Mid-Atlantic, I'd highly recommend contacting Gummowned. He's very skilled and very reliable, not to mention that he travels to a lot of events on the EC so your chance of catching him at a tournament are pretty high. He's also able to do Quad-Mods right now in case you were itching to use your stick for Killer Instinct.

https://twitter.com/Gummowned <- His Twitter.

 

[Kimosabae]

I don't really have tendencies like that. I have things I test out many, many times so I can be confident about what to do in a situation. That's a huge part of how I learn and become confident. I was trying to see if I could beat your anti-air with a lot of different moves and timings. We traded a lot, and I was seeing if I could guarantee the trade, because then that's not a bad thing to make happen since C. Viper scares me more than any other character in this game.

Okay, man. If you say so. I'd tell you to watch the replays - but they're gone. All I know is: I could count on you to jump in that circumstance pretty much every time it occurred. It often takes a second party to point out certain tendencies. You can't be conscious of everything - especially if you're new and inexperienced. You think I just made up something that obscure?

You never want to trade with Viper's DP, anyway. Ever. A DP trade leads into another DP, which provides hella stun, Burn Kick, or Ultra.

What do you mean by beating throw tech?

Learn to bait people's attempts to break throws then punish it. The whiff animation for a standard throw leaves the character exposed. Common examples of tactics are walking in and out of throw range to punish with a ranged normal or doing a move that tech jumps the character so the attack beats throw cleanly (i.e. Viper BK).

I play him because he looks cool. I doubt there are any characters in this game for me. The entire cast is pretty boring and uninteresting. Oni at least has style. I like the following things in characters:
-Mobility
-Large normals
-Projectiles
-A safe, "certain" plan
-Mindgames

So, Oni has some of this stuff. He is somewhat enjoyable for me. I haven't found a character I really like, though. I started out with Guile, and a combination of Flash Kick not fixing its directionality fast enough vs. crossups (I don't say autocorrect because I am actually waiting to make the input) and boring fireball wars moved me away from him. I also hate charge characters. I only played Guile because I was learning Parasoul in Skullgirls as my second character, and wanted to main a charge character to help my Skullgirls play.

Oni actually has way more mobility than the average character - you just have to be willing to not compare it to anything like Marvel. Watch Wao. This is a different game and mobility means something completely different.

Combos are always the last thing I learn on a character. It's just not my style to bother with those until I am comfortable with the character's neutral game. b.MP, b.HP whiffs as a blockstring against crouching characters, so I only use it when punishing something.

That's why I said it's a great punish combo. Never recommended using it block strings. It's good to learn early, I feel, because of how versatile it is, in terms of doing damage and providing Oki/Reset opportunities. A standard punish combo is always good to learn early in a FG because it has you looking for/reacting to general opportunities to punish things which helps you learn more the game/character more efficiently (whiffed reversals, moves with heavy recovery on block/whiff etc.).

This I know is not true. j.MK is my go-to wakeup mixup with Oni. I do fuck the spacing up on j.MK a lot. I've noticed that Oni's j.MK is a rather shitty cross-up move compared to what other characters get. The other shotos seem to have better hitboxes on theirs. I hate how hitboxes are frequently smaller than the actual limb being thrown out in this game. It pisses me off. I would rather have huge ass Marvel hitboxes than that. Make my move function how it looks damn it!

Man, I'm quite confident in saying I didn't have to deal with a single cross up j.mk from you. On your Oki you would either: Throw, bait, or do 623 Kick. Again, I'd say watch the replay, but they're gone.

Until the patch&#8230;.!

I think the decision is absolutely stupid. I'm so annoyed with it.

Well, from full screen it frequently led to good things. At the very least, safe meter gain. Like I said though, C. Viper is like a whirl of chaos to me. Terrifying.

As you were trying out things, so was I. Think about it: what reason is there for me to get hit by FBs full screen? If it wasn't because I was practicing executing my myriad ways around them, it was because I was practicing Fierce feint patterns on the other side of the screen (I find them frustratingly inconsistent online so I'm always practicing them).

If I were real, I'd be showing you how Viper's zoning > Shoto zoning because Seismo doesn't care about Fireballs and all versions provide KND. Yeah, Oni has the triple FB which helps, because he doesn't have to gamble meter and it also causes KND - but as slow as my Seismo is, it's still faster to activate than your triple FB. Regular FB might trade, but keeps me standing and you on your back, so you just eat more Siesmo pressure.

Didn't you notice that about halfway through our matches I went from 0% of these blocked on oki to ~50%? Toward the end I was blocking them frequently. It never felt like it was negative on block, though. I couldn't do shit to punish you, even getting thrown sometimes before I could throw a goddamn light out. It's like your mixups are more ambiguous than mine and they're safer&#8230;

50%? Most definitely not. You were definitely starting to block more - but 50% is relatively high when it comes blocking CU for most players. Maybe you're considering very specific mixup situations where you might have started guessing right more - but generally BK owns your face (like most people).

Thanks for the great analysis and write-up. I would love to hear your opinion on who you think I should be playing. I don't normally play um..."grounded" fighters, I guess I would say. I prefer to fly and tridash. The last Street Fighter I played was SFII before this one. I rented SFIV once, played it for an hour, and turned it off after I beat my first ever opponent online by spamming Tiger Shots. I had expected that in so many generations, Street Fighter would have been elevated to Marvel levels of interesting gameplay. Alas, it is not so...

I don't know that I can recommend a specific character - all I can recommend is that you give this game its proper due. Doesn't seem like you're doing that, currently. I surmise that your ideas of "freedom" in a fighter are currently limited because it sounds like you've only gotten into Melee, Marvel or BB, and those games define FGs for you. The game only seems arbitrarily limited if you're not willing to learn what makes it tick on its own terms. I think SSF4's problem, for me, is that it's actually TOO free and TOO complex for the style of fighter that it ultimately is. But its pleasurable freedoms aren't easily demonstrable, emphatic, or primal, like Marvel, were characters like Magneto take free reigns of Euclidean space (or Melee where every character does). The satisfaction and fun aren't as immediate.

It's freedom lies more in the different ways you can engage and manipulate noumenal events, rather than phenomenal. It's the pressure implied by spacing, not the hitboxes themselves. It's the pressure implied by wakeup SRK, not the Reversal itself, etc. It's the threat implied by the FB, not the fact that it covers the entire screen. "It's a dance" as Mike Ross jokingly said. To get to that point, you have to be willing to stick with the game long enough to information gather via experiences and other direct sources. Of course no characters are going to seem interesting to you if you relate them all to MvC3 mechanics.

 

[Karsticles]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";95253004]Karst will keep convincing himself that he doesn't want to play Dhalsim until he gives up SF4 altogether.

All the things he likes are in that character. It's just a lot to learn before those things become apparent and he's gonna get steamrolled for a while while he's learning the basic systems.[/QUOTE]
Maybe you are right. But Dhalsim has really floaty jumps, and I hate that. He feels more like a Nu style of keepaway than my kind. I will give him an extended shot just for you, though.

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";95255563]Karst watch these

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqPsAQ_EHng

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l21Q2WK_8U

Two very different and exciting styles of Dhalsim. First illustrates his gameplan and the second his mobility very well. The second also has a great example of punishing a throw tech at the end.



Lucky for you, that matchup has happened once or twice before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVOfWSrjGQA

Also, nobody says forward forward, they say towards medium kick.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for sharing these. I have actually seen a lot of Dhalsim play since FChamp and I share playstyle preferences. The first one is an old, but awesome, match for me. The second one was new and I watched it. It seems a lot like Kadeys Dhalsim.

Of the two Dormammu players who play Street Fighter (afaik), one plays Dhalsim, and one plays Sagat (Sanford). I am going to give both of these a try, though Sagat feels more my type. Not having a DP scares the helm out of me!

 

[BumblebeeCody]

FLOE DID IT. BAH GAWD HE REALLY DID IT

Link?

 

["God's Beard!"]

Hey Arturo, Karst says you play like Kadey!


Seriously, Dhalsim's floaty jump needs to be there or jump back yoga sniper would be too crazy. Besides, he has like 4 teleports in the air and 4 dives to cut the jump shorter or change the trajectory. Obviously more than enough normals to stop people from chasing him down when he jumps as well.

 

[Karsticles]

Okay, man. If you say so. I'd tell you to watch the replays - but they're gone. All I know iquotecould count on you to jump in that circumstance pretty much every time it occurred. It often takes a second party to point out certain tendencies. You can't be conscious of everything - especially if you're new and inexperienced. You think I just made up something that obscure?

You never want to trade with Viper's DP, anyway. Ever. A DP trade leads into another DP, which provides hella stun, Burn Kick, or Ultra.

Just to be clear, my point was not that I don't have tendencies, but that I was intentionally doing that to experiment. I know I have tendencies, and that I jumped in a lot against you. Thank you for the advice.

Learn to bait people's attempts to break throws then punish it. The whiff animation for a standard throw leaves the character exposed. Common examples of tactics are walking in and out of throw range to punish with a ranged normal or doing a move that tech jumps the character so the attack beats throw cleanly (i.e. Viper BK).

I will work on this more.

Oni actually has way more mobility than the average character - you just have to be willing to not compare it to anything like Marvel. Watch Wao. This is a different game and mobility means something completely different.

Do you have a good link I could check him out at?

I know Oni has a lot of mobility. It is a big part of why I picked him.

That's why I said it's a great punish combo. Never recommended using it block strings. It's good to learn early, I feel, because of how versatile it is, in terms of doing damage and providing Oki/Reset opportunities. A standard punish combo is always good to learn early in a FG because it has you looking for/reacting to general opportunities to punish things which helps you leaner more about the game (whiffed reversals, moves with heavy recovery on block/whiff etc.).

Gotcha. I know the combo you listed, but the people here are so experienced that they rarely do dumb stuff and.leave themselves open. I need to have a lot of opportunities for it to click that I have one in front of since I am in such a confused and tense state when playing this game. I need more bad opponents, haha.

I am going to mess more with Sagat and Dhalsim as per my previous post. If you have and thoughts on who I should give a shot, I am all ears.

Man, I'm quite confident in saying I didn't have to deal with a single cross up j.mk from you. On your Oki would either: Throw, bait, or do 623 Kick. Again, I'd say watch the replay, but they're gone.

I am quite confident of the opposite. /shrug

As you were trying out things, so was I. Think about it: what reason is there for me to get hit by FBs full screen? If I wasn't because I was practicing execution my myriad options around them, it was because I was practicing Fierce feint patterns on the other side of the screen (I find them frustratingly inconsistent online so I'm always practicing them).

If I were real, I'd be showing you how Viper's zoning > Shoto zoning because Seismo doesn't care about Fireballs and all versions provide KND. Yeah, Oni has the triple FB which helps, because he doesn't have to gamble meter and it also causes KND - but as slow as my Seismo is, it's still faster to activate than your triple FB.

Can you punish the full screen fireball on reaction? I never saw that, if you can. I know C. Viper beats projectile games. Hence why she terrifies me.

50%? Most definitely not. You were definitely starting to block more - but 50% is relatively high when it comes blocking CU for most players. Maybe you're considering very specific mixup situations were might have started guessing right more - but generally BK owns your face (like most people).

I was talking about that low to the ground Oki setup you would do.

I don't know that I can recommend a specific character - all I can recommend is that you give this game its proper due. Doesn't seem like you're doing that, currently. I surmise that your ideas of "freedom" in a fighter are currently limited because it sounds like you've only gotten into Melee and Marvel and those games define FGs for you. The game only seems arbitrarily limited if you're not willing to learn what makes it tick on its own terms. I think SSF4's problem, for me, is that it's actually TOO free and TOO complex for the style of fighter that it ultimately is. But its pleasurable freedoms aren't easily demonstrable, emphatic, or primal, like Marvel, were characters like Magneto take free reigns of Euclidean space (or Melee where every character does). The satisfaction and fun aren't as immediate.

It's freedom lies more in the different ways you can engage and manipulate noumenal events, rather than phenomenal. It's the pressure implied by spacing, not the hotboxes themselves. It's the pressure implied by wakeup SRK, not the Reversal itself, etc. "It's a dance" as Mike Ross jokingly said. To get to that point, you have to be willing to stick with the game long enough to information gather via experiences and other direct sources. Of course no characters are going to seem interesting to you if you relate them all to MvC3 mechanics.

I do understand this about SF, but I like to move and control in games. I understand SF is a more...basic fighter in terms of the gameplay options available, thus I try to cope with that. Lets just day I prefer a phenomenal focus.

I also play Skullgirls. Really, Street Fighter characters are uninteresting compared to every fighter out there except for those without projectiles entirely. I really am doing my best to like the game. Truly. The numerous posts I have made here trying to like it, and trying to get advice on how to make this game enjoyable for me, should be proof of that. I just need to play a character a hundred matches or so before I really know whether the character is for me. You'll see I did the same thing with Marvel. This is just my learning process.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Karst let's play Marvel

 

[SloaneRisette]

Depends on where you're from. If you're on the EC in the Mid-Atlantic, I'd highly recommend contacting Gummowned. He's very skilled and very reliable, not to mention that he travels to a lot of events on the EC so your chance of catching him at a tournament are pretty high. He's also able to do Quad-Mods right now in case you were itching to use your stick for Killer Instinct.

https://twitter.com/Gummowned <- His Twitter.

There are already mods for Xbox One?

 

[sixteen-bit]

yeah, the standard X1 controller is common ground and usable in dual-mods.

 

[alstein]

Depends on where you're from. If you're on the EC in the Mid-Atlantic, I'd highly recommend contacting Gummowned. He's very skilled and very reliable, not to mention that he travels to a lot of events on the EC so your chance of catching him at a tournament are pretty high. He's also able to do Quad-Mods right now in case you were itching to use your stick for Killer Instinct.

https://twitter.com/Gummowned <- His Twitter.

I can vouch this guy does good work- he did a lot of custom sticks/mods for our local FGC years ago.

 

[proccor]

That is one long journey. Congratulations Floe.

He is the Boshy. Grats Floe!

 

[BumblebeeCody]

That is one long journey. Congratulations Floe.

Just watched it. Well...congrats Floe.

 

[Karsticles]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";95274700]Karst let's play Marvel[/QUOTE]
Going shopping.